Two Years of ESO PvP - Rylana's comments for ZOS

Jura23

Damage reduction is fine for me. If it was less, everybody would just twoshot everybody. Not fun.

Docmandu

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

we want Cyrodiil to be a fun and engaging experience for all players

On a positive note: it is fun and the sole reason why I play this game... except dat lag, damn!

Iyas

#remove aoe cap, sooner than later

Quantine

Yes please, remove AoE caps.

And give us some way of dynamically generating Ulti again!

Frawr

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

Jura23

Frawr wrote: »

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

CPs are a way to give all players something they can work towards after they max their lvl. If you cap them permanently they will lose their purpose.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Conceivably would it be possible to host a pts server with an older version of the game on it?
A lot of players believe that the lighting and antibot changes are to blame for the lag. It would be interesting to test this to see if we are correct in our assumptions. I'd even be willing to download a 2nd pts for it .
I realise that it would be tricky to copy characters due to the newer state of the characters but perhaps templates would be usable? At least for a short 30m or 1h testing session with a couple of Devs to really fill the servers

Also /gank might be acceptable for a pvp dev. Or just "I've read this"

Draxys

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Conceivably would it be possible to host a pts server with an older version of the game on it?
A lot of players believe that the lighting and antibot changes are to blame for the lag. It would be interesting to test this to see if we are correct in our assumptions. I'd even be willing to download a 2nd pts for it .
I realise that it would be tricky to copy characters due to the newer state of the characters but perhaps templates would be usable? At least for a short 30m or 1h testing session with a couple of Devs to really fill the servers

Also /gank might be acceptable for a pvp dev. Or just "I've read this"

I highly support this, although I would be very (and pleasantly) surprised if it's even possible, not to mention if it happens.

Enodoc

Rylana wrote: »

- Put resource flags inside/on top of the towers,

Pleased to see I'm not the only one who would like to see this! Resource capping is too easy with the flag outside, and I also think the resources themselves have a limited benefit overall. Sure they strengthen the keep, but there needs to be more to them so they're not just steamrolled over by the alliance who just capped the keep.

Technically the best place for the flag would be on the inside lower landing of the tower. The entire top of the tower is lost when sieged, and you'd need to siege it to 0% in order to get inside.

riverdragon72 wrote: »

There should be a campaign where grouping is turned off.

I agree in principle, but it wouldn't really work. Even without groups, people can still follow each other around.

Winterpsy

Always wondered how player collision would solve Zerg overlapping. As the main problem is not the Zerg but how 20 players can bash a single one. Collision would stretch battlefields, give room to new tactics too, like front liner shield wall, archers in the back, need for maneuvers to attack the flanks or back. Only a couple enemies could reach a target at once, because the block each other as well.

Orpheaus

Honestly one of my biggest complaints about Cyrodiil is probably more gameplay related. And it's targeting. 2 things
1. I wish we could go back to the old way of preferred target. (The big white square around someone instead of the white glow) I found that a much easier way to find my target in the mass of skills and humanity going off.
2. This is a pretty big request and I understand I probably won't get it since it'd require a lot of dev power. But I think a target assist window or target forwarding thru raid leader would be brilliant. At the moment there's really no way to focus a specific target as a raid. With a raid assist window I think it could lead to a much higher level of coordination in RvR. (Not to mention it would make dungeons a tad easier to focus in)

_Chaos

There's been more touching base in this thread than the Phillies had all season long!

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

Jura23

Orpheaus wrote: »

Honestly one of my biggest complaints about Cyrodiil is probably more gameplay related. And it's targeting. 2 things
1. I wish we could go back to the old way of preferred target. (The big white square around someone instead of the white glow) I found that a much easier way to find my target in the mass of skills and humanity going off.
2. This is a pretty big request and I understand I probably won't get it since it'd require a lot of dev power. But I think a target assist window or target forwarding thru raid leader would be brilliant. At the moment there's really no way to focus a specific target as a raid. With a raid assist window I think it could lead to a much higher level of coordination in RvR. (Not to mention it would make dungeons a tad easier to focus in)

This is just my opinion, but I think assist target window is just dumbing the game down completely. I never liked it in any MMO I played. You just click crown's target and smash buttons, no need to even look on the screen almost.

babanovac

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Iyas

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Cant agree more! But he answered so Hype Hype nice yolo cyrodil is now lagfree and funny

Merlight

Jura23 wrote: »

Orpheaus wrote: »

2. This is a pretty big request and I understand I probably won't get it since it'd require a lot of dev power. But I think a target assist window or target forwarding thru raid leader would be brilliant. At the moment there's really no way to focus a specific target as a raid. With a raid assist window I think it could lead to a much higher level of coordination in RvR. (Not to mention it would make dungeons a tad easier to focus in)

This is just my opinion, but I think assist target window is just dumbing the game down completely. I never liked it in any MMO I played. You just click crown's target and smash buttons, no need to even look on the screen almost.

100% aggree, auto-assist would only further dumb-down the zerg play. Decent groups are able to communicate and focus priority targets just fine.

_Chaos

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Buddy you're two cheeks to the wind if you think this thread has been similar to anything we've ever seen in these parts of the forums. We had Wheeler sum up what they are currently working on with some very specific and previously disclosed information.

And the cherry on the cake: Rich Lambert acknowledged performance issues in Cyrodiil, in such a way that makes him seem eager to fix it.

Take your Tonka Truck and kick rocks bud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDDYcyrCNE

eliisra

Merlight wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Orpheaus wrote: »

2. This is a pretty big request and I understand I probably won't get it since it'd require a lot of dev power. But I think a target assist window or target forwarding thru raid leader would be brilliant. At the moment there's really no way to focus a specific target as a raid. With a raid assist window I think it could lead to a much higher level of coordination in RvR. (Not to mention it would make dungeons a tad easier to focus in)

This is just my opinion, but I think assist target window is just dumbing the game down completely. I never liked it in any MMO I played. You just click crown's target and smash buttons, no need to even look on the screen almost.

100% aggree, auto-assist would only further dumb-down the zerg play. Decent groups are able to communicate and focus priority targets just fine.

No you cant focus down a player in a tight blob. Not even decent groups can burn down a guy that's standing on top of 30 other guys. The target system is to clunky and wont allow it, while all the blinding animation spam makes it impossible to see what individual players are doing.

That's another reasons why blobbing is so good and spreading out gets you kill. If you leave the safety of the blob, you get focused, you get hit by sneak attacks and hard hitting ST skills, like Snipe, Wrecking Blow or CF and die.

I dont like target assist either, it's indeed brain dead. But better control over your locked targets would be good. You should be able to hit your focused target, like the leader of a raid or the most annoying healer, even if an entire army stands in-front and on top of them.

Frawr

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

CPs are a way to give all players something they can work towards after they max their lvl. If you cap them permanently they will lose their purpose.

That's all very nice for the solo game but it is destroying the multilayer game.

Also to the above list I would add:

Remove stam - based heals. Or remove classes.

Giving a heal to dps chars, that gets stronger as their dps increases ( by being increased by their stamina and/or weapon damage), is face - palm stupid. It's seriously brain-transplant-required-banging-head-on-desk-in-disbelief stupid in a multi player game. In a class-based system, It's the most unbalancing nonsense that I've seen in gaming. There HAS to be rock-paper-scissors tradeoffs in these games otherwise (surprise surprise) people become insanely overpowered. The only way to balance it currently is to give all players access to the same burst damage skills to go with the heals, aka, remove class restrictions.

There are some really awesome concepts in this game, continuously let down by the detail. There are too many decisions made aimed at giving training wheels to incompetent players instead of simply providing the tools and letting everyone loose.

In a class-based system, you cannot let any 1 class have damage, mitigation and healing. They should never have more than 2. If you want this open plan system then please removed the damned class restrictions.

Jura23

Frawr wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

CPs are a way to give all players something they can work towards after they max their lvl. If you cap them permanently they will lose their purpose.

That's all very nice for the solo game but it is destroying the multilayer game.

Also to the above list I would add:

Remove stam - based heals. Giving a heal to dps chars, that gets stronger as their dps increases ( by being increased by their stamina and/or weapon damage), is face - palm stupid. It's seriously brain-transplant-required-banging-head-on-desk-in-disbelief stupid in a multi player game. It's the most unbalancing nonsense that I've seen in gaming. There HAS to be rock-paper-scissors tradeoffs in these games otherwise (surprise surprise) people become insanely overpowered.

I don't understand how will removing stam heals stop DPS chars from having heals. Only thing you achieve with that is you will give magicka users huge advatage.

Erynyes

@frawr you high?

Agreed with OP on every point (bring back soft caps) exept the IC access, not too sure about that, i like hunting in the sewers and steal other players stone, with restricted access IC would be empty, just a giant farm land with no risk/reward, maybe adding strategic campaign objectives for controlling district is a better idea, IC pop shouldn't count toward camp pop also.

Also really nice to finally have Wheeler and Lambert post in this thread, you guys should do that more often, it's appreciated

Scyantific

Enodoc wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

- Put resource flags inside/on top of the towers,

Pleased to see I'm not the only one who would like to see this! Resource capping is too easy with the flag outside, and I also think the resources themselves have a limited benefit overall. Sure they strengthen the keep, but there needs to be more to them so they're not just steamrolled over by the alliance who just capped the keep.

Technically the best place for the flag would be on the inside lower landing of the tower. The entire top of the tower is lost when sieged, and you'd need to siege it to 0% in order to get inside.

riverdragon72 wrote: »

There should be a campaign where grouping is turned off.

I agree in principle, but it wouldn't really work. Even without groups, people can still follow each other around.

Yeah but at that point they wouldn't get the bonus reduction past 6 players iirc (correct me if I'm wrong)

Mojomonkeyman

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Buddy you're two cheeks to the wind if you think this thread has been similar to anything we've ever seen in these parts of the forums. We had Wheeler sum up what they are currently working on with some very specific and previously disclosed information.

And the cherry on the cake: Rich Lambert acknowledged performance issues in Cyrodiil, in such a way that makes him seem eager to fix it.

Take your Tonka Truck and kick rocks bud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDDYcyrCNE

Thing is, you are a ballgroup player, of course you like the proposed changes. It won`t change any of the problems in cyrodiil right now nor will it break up ball groups or minimize lag.

Yeah, we totally had no tightly stacked groups when siege damage was high or forward camps in place.... (sarcasm).

Stronger npcs - need more people at one place instead of spreading out
Stronger siege - need more people spamming purge, hence larger groups or at least a group large enough to have dedicated purgers/ae healers

We already had this in ESO and no, during these times the game wasn`t less zergy.

babanovac

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Buddy you're two cheeks to the wind if you think this thread has been similar to anything we've ever seen in these parts of the forums. We had Wheeler sum up what they are currently working on with some very specific and previously disclosed information.

And the cherry on the cake: Rich Lambert acknowledged performance issues in Cyrodiil, in such a way that makes him seem eager to fix it.

Take your Tonka Truck and kick rocks bud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDDYcyrCNE

I'm not sure i understand what you are referring to. No one from ZOS has ever acknowledged the the main issues with PvP, which have been pointed out by the community since forever. Have you ever heard them saying anything about AoE caps? How many threads have we had with people complaining that that Cyrodiil has become a zerg game, and that numbers are all that matters now and that skill is irrelevant? How many times have people suggested that AoE caps need to be removed so that the artificial advantage that zergs have be removed from the game? ZOS' reply - None.

And second, looks through this section of the forums. Every single discussion about PvP is tightly related to class balance. We've had tons of suggestions from players on class balance changes that are needed to improve the health PvP. Now look at the devs' comments above. They don't even consider class balance as being in the same realm as PvP. It seems that for them PvP only consists of the shape the map of Cyrodill has - hence the suggested changes to adding new flags and stuff. For them PvP and class balance are handled by different teams so they have nothing to do with one another, even though the community has been begging for class changes from them in order to fix PvP.

And these are just the TWO big problems currently plaguing PvP, and yes, they choose to ignore them, as they simply don't understand their own game, and they can't comprehend that these are game breaking for pvp.

The changes they suggest are nice ofcourse and it will be good to have them in game. But just the fact they consider these lesser issues as being top priority, and the fact they actually think those changes will have any major impact on how PvP takes place in Cyrodiil, leads me to the conclusion you so easily dismissed: this thread is not a beacon of hope, on the contrary - it's really depressing knowing that this is the kind of "vision" devs have for PvP.

PS: this forum section has been so blatantly ignored by the devs that we have come to consider any half baked comment from them as a blessing from the gods or something.

Frawr

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

CPs are a way to give all players something they can work towards after they max their lvl. If you cap them permanently they will lose their purpose.

That's all very nice for the solo game but it is destroying the multilayer game.

Also to the above list I would add:

Remove stam - based heals. Giving a heal to dps chars, that gets stronger as their dps increases ( by being increased by their stamina and/or weapon damage), is face - palm stupid. It's seriously brain-transplant-required-banging-head-on-desk-in-disbelief stupid in a multi player game. It's the most unbalancing nonsense that I've seen in gaming. There HAS to be rock-paper-scissors tradeoffs in these games otherwise (surprise surprise) people become insanely overpowered.

I don't understand how will removing stam heals stop DPS chars from having heals. Only thing you achieve with that is you will give magicka users huge advatage.

You're right. I was so busy with my head in my hands that I missed that.

The problem isn't specifically the stam based heal but it is the lack of stats in the game. No one should ever get the ability to heal from the same stat as the ability to deal damage. There should be secondary stats that provide that such as in other games. Stam should be a pool to use and a 2nd stat should be the measure of the strength of heals or damage. This way, you can't stack one stat only.

The balance should come from removal of classes.

Draxys

Frawr wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Remove aoe cap

Reintroduce soft caps

Remove innate armour and spell penetration from the game. Assign it to 1 expensive skill. This will give armour some meaning ( rather than light and medium basically = naked).

Remove battle spirit debuffs

Cap cp permanently at 360?

CPs are a way to give all players something they can work towards after they max their lvl. If you cap them permanently they will lose their purpose.

That's all very nice for the solo game but it is destroying the multilayer game.

Also to the above list I would add:

Remove stam - based heals. Giving a heal to dps chars, that gets stronger as their dps increases ( by being increased by their stamina and/or weapon damage), is face - palm stupid. It's seriously brain-transplant-required-banging-head-on-desk-in-disbelief stupid in a multi player game. It's the most unbalancing nonsense that I've seen in gaming. There HAS to be rock-paper-scissors tradeoffs in these games otherwise (surprise surprise) people become insanely overpowered.

I don't understand how will removing stam heals stop DPS chars from having heals. Only thing you achieve with that is you will give magicka users huge advatage.

You're right. I was so busy with my head in my hands that I missed that.

The problem isn't specifically the stam based heal but it is the half - house of giving everyone access to some abilities but not others.

The balance should come from removal of classes.

4/10 troll, better luck next time

Elsonso

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

• Reintroducing forward camps with smaller radius', restrictive respawning within radius only and global cooldown.
• Refactoring Siege damage (again)
• Removing alliance campaign restrictions on your account
• Allowing you to unassign yourself with cooldowns
• Redo'ing the guards at the Scroll gates and putting them on the ground
• More things to spend your AP on and updating current sets to higher levels

I like the one I marked in green (4th one). With only one non-vet campaign and focus on multiple characters in different alliances, a long cooldown option to just drop out of Cyrodiil probably would have helped me stay. I got tired of a non-vet Templar and switched (long term) to a non-vet Sorcerer, but could not get the Sorcerer into BWB. Ultimately, I picked another campaign, but there is a reason I play non-vet.

However, the main reason I left was that it was too easy for players to be in the same campaign under multiple alliances. This was ultimately "fixed", and since then I actually did set foot in Cyrodiil to see how things were doing. The item I marked in red (3rd) looks like it rolls that change back. For me, Cyrodiil was ruined by people with easy access to Blackwater under multiple alliances.

As for the rest of this list... PVP in this game is hemorrhaging players faster than they are being replaced. I figure that, eventually, there will only need to be one PC/Mac NA Campaign and it will essentially be a 24x24 style battlefield. I do not see anything in that list above that is going to change that.

Darlgon

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just noting that the thread has been read and there are things in here we're working on. Rich's thing is /lurk...I don't have one of those yet.

Sigh.. was gonna suggest /BigWheelTurning (Proud Mary), but, that might be misunderstood....

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Since most of this information is scattered about the forums here's a nice condensed "short answer" list:

<list>

Most, if not all, of these changes should be in the next major update (barring issues with testing).

I am with-holding comments on the list, as I am not sure of my reaction, and other players have much to say... HOWEVER..

In that timeframe, we are looking at.. seeing these changes on PTS in Jamuary 2016? then live in February?

And, if they dont work/break more stuff.. they dont get fixed until? April 2016 (PTS)? May 2016 (Live)? TWO YEARS after live launch?

Sigh.. I know you guys are developing lots of stuff with those major releases, but the development lag on fixing crap broken has gotten WAY old. Somehow, someway, we need to get the turnaround on MAJOR asdf like the fixes needed for Cyrodiil down to days/weeks instead of months/years.

Anazasi

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Since most of this information is scattered about the forums here's a nice condensed "short answer" list:
Most, if not all, of these changes should be in the next major update (barring issues with testing).

We are also staying vigilant about improving performance in Cyrodiil. There were a few ability changes made earlier this week and we're watching the performance after those changes, but we're still digging into getting the performance better.

Can we confirm or at least estimate when the next major update is supposed to be released. I'm just curious because it would be nice to know if we are talking 3 months, 30 days, 6 months, next year?

Etaniel

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for (somehow) squeezing this information out of them @Rylana this thread has become a beacon of hope for the community.

I have to say i disagree. The replies from Brian and Rich contain absolutely nothing from all the feedback the community has been giving for the past months. It's pretty obvious that ZOS and the community have completely different views on where the problems are with PvP and Cyrodiil.

Buddy you're two cheeks to the wind if you think this thread has been similar to anything we've ever seen in these parts of the forums. We had Wheeler sum up what they are currently working on with some very specific and previously disclosed information.

And the cherry on the cake: Rich Lambert acknowledged performance issues in Cyrodiil, in such a way that makes him seem eager to fix it.

Take your Tonka Truck and kick rocks bud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDDYcyrCNE

I'm not sure i understand what you are referring to. No one from ZOS has ever acknowledged the the main issues with PvP, which have been pointed out by the community since forever. Have you ever heard them saying anything about AoE caps? How many threads have we had with people complaining that that Cyrodiil has become a zerg game, and that numbers are all that matters now and that skill is irrelevant? How many times have people suggested that AoE caps need to be removed so that the artificial advantage that zergs have be removed from the game? ZOS' reply - None.

And second, looks through this section of the forums. Every single discussion about PvP is tightly related to class balance. We've had tons of suggestions from players on class balance changes that are needed to improve the health PvP. Now look at the devs' comments above. They don't even consider class balance as being in the same realm as PvP. It seems that for them PvP only consists of the shape the map of Cyrodill has - hence the suggested changes to adding new flags and stuff. For them PvP and class balance are handled by different teams so they have nothing to do with one another, even though the community has been begging for class changes from them in order to fix PvP.

And these are just the TWO big problems currently plaguing PvP, and yes, they choose to ignore them, as they simply don't understand their own game, and they can't comprehend that these are game breaking for pvp.

The changes they suggest are nice ofcourse and it will be good to have them in game. But just the fact they consider these lesser issues as being top priority, and the fact they actually think those changes will have any major impact on how PvP takes place in Cyrodiil, leads me to the conclusion you so easily dismissed: this thread is not a beacon of hope, on the contrary - it's really depressing knowing that this is the kind of "vision" devs have for PvP.

PS: this forum section has been so blatantly ignored by the devs that we have come to consider any half baked comment from them as a blessing from the gods or something.

Very well put Babs.
When you look at the abilities they have been tweaking to improve performance, they are never the ones spammed by trains. I mean, when was the last time you saw a full templar raid spamming jabs right?