A BIG THANK YOU ZOS FOR THIS GAME and A WORD TO COMPLAINERS too

altemriel

Hallo ZOS,
and also hallo to the guys who complain all the time in this forum!


1. ZOS: First of all I wanna thank ZOS for this game! It is just so amazing! I have played Skyrim back then and now this is even much better. I just love the nature sceneries, the fights, the quests, the playability, dungeons, trials, monsters, NPCs....I will totally buy all the DLCs that will go out!
And nevermind the bugs and maintenances. I can understand that it is a huge project and there are so many things that can go wrong with the code, I can totally understand that.

I can of course totally relate to you people that are writting about the bugs so often in this forum, but come on guys! Is it really so bad that maybe 40 % of all posts here are complains?

When I speak from my own experience with this game, I am now VR1, I have spend many many hours in this game so far and the MAJOR bugs that I have encountered are maybe 4 - 5 during the whole time (ended in the wall after fight - had to use "/stuck" console command, lags in Cyrodiil,...). Of course I have encountered also some minor bugs, but overal nothing so much bad, that it would ruin my great experience from the game. This is my first MMO game, so I can not compare, and also I do mostly PVE, PVP only few times.
But anyway, in my opinion this game is much much more awesome than bugy!!!
Thank you again ZOS for this game!!!


2. Complainers: Now I wanna say a word to the people here, that most of the time complain about bugs, nerfs, game mechanics changes, etc...
I can understand that you have high expectations and that maybe you have played many MMOs in the past, so you are comparing and so on.
But guys, is it really that bad that so many posts here are complains? My point is, that when someone new comes here, wants to decide if to buy the game or not, sees so many critical posts and so little gratitude posts, what would he/she do? Definitelly not buy this game!

You wanto this game to be better? You want ZOS to hire more developers, to be able to polish the game to be 100% no lags, 100% no bugs, 100% perfect?
Then please for every complain that you write here, include also at least 1 positive thing that you like about the game.
Because - guess what - the more people buy this game, the more money will ZOS get for it -> the more money they could assign to the game developement -> the better the game could become! It is as easy as that.

I totally do not believe that ZOS would create the game with an intention "we just create it, get the money and leave it buggy, we don`t care". For sure they want it to be 100 % customer satisfaction, but all that takes time, effort, money, experience, learning from mistakes, choosing between the best improvements,...

Alucardo

You don't PvP, do you?

altemriel

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining post vs gratitude posts?

sadownik

altemriel wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining poist vs gratitude posts?

So in your opinion we should not only pay for product, but also do the marketing? What is it, some kind of avon cult thing?

Levo18

I would say positives things for each negative but.... the negatives are so overwhelming its hard to find positives

Wollust

I don't see any reason to give a positive feedback as long as Cyrodiil is basically not working during primetime.

altemriel

sadownik wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining poist vs gratitude posts?

So in your opinion we should not only pay for product, but also do the marketing? What is it, some kind of avon cult thing?

My point is, that if the bugs that the people encounter are really so bad (in my opinion totally not)? Because it seems many times, that they do not want to play the game at all. I mean you are already doing the marketing by writting you impressions of the game here. But thinking about the effect of what people write here, would be good too.

altemriel

Levo18 wrote: »

I would say positives things for each negative but.... the negatives are so overwhelming its hard to find positives

Interresting, ok then. Probably you do more PVP than PVE (as I do). But my experience is totally different than yours. That is why I wrote this post.

hrothbern

@altemriel,
I heartily agree that we enjoy a fantastic game

and real nice to read the intention of you post

and the tone of many complainers ...... you must be about a social worker to still appreciate many of the whining and doom posts.


But this forum is also an important sharing platform for users. Sharing "best practice", thoughts, wishes, bugs, uncertainties about functions, emotions...
This forum is also a communication to ZOS. And some issues must be mentioned including the annoyance incurred...
Nothing personal, strictly business ! But we do want to get better together.

Bashev

Ok something positive from me.
PvP is fun (under some circumstances).
I wont write anything negative in this topic even that there are a lot of things that I would like to be improved.

Itoq

altemriel wrote: »

I totally do not believe that ZOS would create the game with an intention "we just create it, get the money and leave it buggy, we don`t care". For sure they want it to be 100 % customer satisfaction, but all that takes time, effort, money, experience, learning from mistakes, choosing between the best improvements,...

This guy gets it. ZOS wants a more bug free and polished game but does not want to spend the effort, money and to hire experienced programmers who can thrive in a company culture that prides itself in learning from mistakes and making improvements.

I grant you 100 Insightfuls.

Johngo0036

I spend most my time in PVP and i still love it,

There are a few reasons to complain but in general i still love it..

LAAAAGGGGGGG is the biggest issue i have in Cyrodiil..

ku5h

I felt exactly the same, at a point you are now, as i understand you just hit v1 with your first char. At that point everything was great, storyline, scenery and so on...but when you start PvPing you will experience extreme lags, DCs, bugs... And lately they are introducing masive grind for gear, with everything being BoP, and masive prices for crafting mats. So all in all, I do understand your position on this subject, its just you are yet to incounter all things ppl are complaining about.

altemriel

hrothbern wrote: »

@altemriel,
I heartily agree that we enjoy a fantastic game

and the tone ...... you must be about a social worker to still appreciate many of the whining and doom posts.


But this forum is also an important sharing platform for users. Sharing "best practice", thoughts, wishes, bugs, uncertainties about functions, emotions...
This forum is also a communication to ZOS. And some issues must be mentioned including the annoyance incurred...
Nothing personal, strictly business ! But we do want to get better together.

, I am not a social worker, but I studied psychology on the uni and I am an empathic person too. And also that is why I know what effect can so many complains have on possible newbies for example - it can totally distract them, create a not occurate image of that game.

And yes, the rest of the posts I appreciate of course. Sharing experience, tips, etc

moesmaker

Amazing to read this. It is about time someone does a sociological study about the way people react when, like the OP, someone tries to give kudos to the makers of a product he bought and happily uses. Within minutes I count at least 5 acid-soaked reactions.

Guys, remember life is fun and this game is beautiful, else you wouldn't play it. Wouldn't you?

And OP: thanks for this thread, I couldn't agree more.

KleanZlate

I've been playing since beta (with pauses in between) and my positive point is that I'm still excited about taking my first character in to new zones to do quests. I've got more than 1000 hours on that character so there's something that keeps pulling me back to this game even though I've given up on PvP for now.

MuddledMuppet

I love this game, play a lot of PvP, MOST of the time it is enjoyable, if it wasn't, I'd be off playing something else, there's no shortage of great games out there to fill my time with.

Yes the game has problems and stuff that needs addressing, one of the problems is that zos doesn't participate anywhere near to the extent that they could do, even when there seems a massive player consensus on things that need changing, zos remain silent.

That allows the complaining to fester.

However, my biggest problem with the forums isn't the amount of complaing, (an awful lot of this is legitimate imo) but the toxicity of the forums in general. Rarely do people actually debate stuff, but much like some players will always be lying in waiting in cyrodiil to gank the unsuspecting (I hae no problem with that, sometimes do it myself) the forums have players lying in wait to gank posters, always ready to ambush with the ever-OP 'l2p' or spamming 'QQ moar', jabbing below the belt insults or sneak attacks angainst 'casuals' or 'console users' insisting that somehow the largest pools of players/purchasers are killing the game.

Debate is a good thing, regardless of where any of us stand on any issue, presenting argument makes us focus our thoughts, it forces us to rethink, to clarify, to communicate.

The endless automatic gainsaying with childlike knee-jerk rebuttals mostly seen on the forums has lost any slight entertainment value it may have had, and just becomes tedious.

Complaining can be a positive thing, but the manner in which it is being done and the responces it inevitably attracts on here is less than healthy and often makes both sides lose any semblence or argument they potentially expressed.

altemriel

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Complaining can be a positive thing, but the manner in which it is being done and the responces it inevitably attracts on here is less than healthy and often makes both sides lose any semblence or argument they potentially expressed.

exactly!!!

moesmaker

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I love this game, play a lot of PvP, MOST of the time it is enjoyable, if it wasn't, I'd be off playing something else, there's no shortage of great games out there to fill my time with.

Yes the game has problems and stuff that needs addressing, one of the problems is that zos doesn't participate anywhere near to the extent that they could do, even when there seems a massive player consensus on things that need changing, zos remain silent.

That allows the complaining to fester.

However, my biggest problem with the forums isn't the amount of complaing, (an awful lot of this is legitimate imo) but the toxicity of the forums in general. Rarely do people actually debate stuff, but much like some players will always be lying in waiting in cyrodiil to gank the unsuspecting (I hae no problem with that, sometimes do it myself) the forums have players lying in wait to gank posters, always ready to ambush with the ever-OP 'l2p' or spamming 'QQ moar', jabbing below the belt insults or sneak attacks angainst 'casuals' or 'console users' insisting that somehow the largest pools of players/purchasers are killing the game.

Debate is a good thing, regardless of where any of us stand on any issue, presenting argument makes us focus our thoughts, it forces us to rethink, to clarify, to communicate.

The endless automatic gainsaying with childlike knee-jerk rebuttals mostly seen on the forums has lost any slight entertainment value it may have had, and just becomes tedious.

Complaining can be a positive thing, but the manner in which it is being done and the responces it inevitably attracts on here is less than healthy and often makes both sides lose any semblence or argument they potentially expressed.

This!

Cadbury

moesmaker wrote: »

Amazing to read this. It is about time someone does a sociological study about the way people react when, like the OP, someone tries to give kudos to the makers of a product he bought and happily uses. Within minutes I count at least 5 acid-soaked reactions.

Guys, remember life is fun and this game is beautiful, else you wouldn't play it. Wouldn't you?

And OP: thanks for this thread, I couldn't agree more.

Anything positive, even faint praise, brings out the saltiest players. Just another day on the forums.

moesmaker

Indeed

Van_0S

altemriel wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining post vs gratitude posts?

lol!

You are missing the true fun it offers (PvP). Play PvP more and the more the complain means more the people love this game.

altemriel

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining post vs gratitude posts?

lol!

You are missing the true fun it offers (PvP). Play PvP more and the more the complain means more the people love this game.

yes, maybe I should do more PVP, it was fun when I tried it . But I have to disagreee with you the "more complains mean more people love this game".
Reading this forum sometimes seems to me, that there is a great number of people that are totally dissapointed by this game and want to get their money refunded and never want to play this game ever ! Which is, I believe, totally not true.


It is a bit sad for me, that it seems, that when people do not like something, they write tons of posts about it, but when people like something in the game, they somehow tend to not mention it here.

Cadbury

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You don't PvP, do you?

I mostly do PVE, PVP just maybe 1 of 10 times in Tamriel.

But anyway, that what I write applies in general. Do you get my point about the disbalance between complaining post vs gratitude posts?

lol!

You are missing the true fun it offers (PvP). Play PvP more and the more the complain means more the people love this game.

Well, yeah. Some of the biggest complainers are PvPers.

Egonieser

@altemriel
People complain because they love the game and they want it to be improved to be even better, to strive and grow. Criticism, complaints and some negativity forces the developers/publishers to evaluate what they're doing wrong, or what the issues are so they can avoid them in the future. (Please understand, talking about real issues here, not trolls who do it just to wind people or have nothing better to do, or people who have no idea what they're talking about).

Remember, during their internal testing, they can only test the game in small scale on a local area network, sure they will find the MAJOR issues, but there are some niggles that are dug so deep somewhere it can only appear some very specific scenarios that it can easily be missed/overlooked and thus goes unfixed/unfinished. The players ultimately are the beta testers in a MMO, because unlike single player titles which are one time things - "Make it, release it, fix a bug or two, shelf it until the next title" a MMO is ever changing and will always have new issues that can't realistically be cought during internal tests, so we - as the players point them out to the developers. There is no better testing than LIVE testing with dozens, if not hundreds of thousands of people at a time. We submit bug reports, we bring them up on the forums to make devs and other players aware so it can be avoided in the future.

And again, I am talking about real constructive criticism, bug complaints, gamebreaking issues, this does not apply to trolling or senseless whining for the sake of whining, which sadly plagues any corner of the internet.

We (using this term loosely) like the game, doesn't mean we have to like the bugs. Just because people hate bugs, doesn't mean they hate the game. This is where the confusion comes in, people assume if someone is complaining about an issue, they automatically hate the game and the developers, no. Chances are, people who hate the game don't even bother posting or submitting any issues, they have already left to play something else, because why would they waste their time on something they have no interest in? I certainly wouldn't.

Criticism and complaints is what drives to perfection and promotes competition in the sector, there is nothing wrong with that - it's just how it works. It's bad enough most AAA companies take a dump all over us and release buggy (and i mean truly buggy) messes and then refuse to do anything about it after they've already taken our money *Looking at you Ubisoft and EA* Because they know people will lap up their *** either way and make motherlodes of money.

tennant94

I totally agree this game is amazing.

altemriel

Egonieser wrote: »

@altemriel
People complain because they love the game and they want it to be improved to be even better, to strive and grow. Criticism, complaints and some negativity forces the developers/publishers to evaluate what they're doing wrong, or what the issues are so they can avoid them in the future. (Please understand, talking about real issues here, not trolls who do it just to wind people or have nothing better to do, or people who have no idea what they're talking about).

Remember, during their internal testing, they can only test the game in small scale on a local area network, sure they will find the MAJOR issues, but there are some niggles that are dug so deep somewhere it can only appear some very specific scenarios that it can easily be missed/overlooked and thus goes unfixed/unfinished. The players ultimately are the beta testers in a MMO, because unlike single player titles which are one time things - "Make it, release it, fix a bug or two, shelf it until the next title" a MMO is ever changing and will always have new issues that can't realistically be cought during internal tests, so we - as the players point them out to the developers. There is no better testing than LIVE testing with dozens, if not hundreds of thousands of people at a time. We submit bug reports, we bring them up on the forums to make devs and other players aware so it can be avoided in the future.

And again, I am talking about real constructive criticism, bug complaints, gamebreaking issues, this does not apply to trolling or senseless whining for the sake of whining, which sadly plagues any corner of the internet.

We (using this term loosely) like the game, doesn't mean we have to like the bugs. Just because people hate bugs, doesn't mean they hate the game. This is where the confusion comes in, people assume if someone is complaining about an issue, they automatically hate the game and the developers, no. Chances are, people who hate the game don't even bother posting or submitting any issues, they have already left to play something else, because why would they waste their time on something they have no interest in? I certainly wouldn't.

Criticism and complaints is what drives to perfection and promotes competition in the sector, there is nothing wrong with that - it's just how it works. It's bad enough most AAA companies take a dump all over us and release buggy (and i mean truly buggy) messes and then refuse to do anything about it after they've already taken our money *Looking at you Ubisoft and EA* Because they know people will lap up their *** either way and make motherlodes of money.

yes, I have to agree with all that you wrote, but still I have a feeling that many times in written communication, there is a very slight difference "between constructive criticism + overal satisfied with the game" VS "ZOS you did something, you ruined the game!!all is bad now!"

It would just make me happier when people who criticize would choose their words more carefully, so that is does not seem that this game is just awful and not worth to play. I love the game and it would be a huge pitty if the game would die, because of too many complainers expressing themselves too emotionally, making it seem more bad than it really is. And not mentioning the pros of the game too.

Iyas

You have to unterstand most of the complainers. Im a pvp player and love everything about the pvp in the game but the game wont allow me to play when i want.
Want to play on primetime on azura, eu? Yeah better log out. And so many things are driving me away from the game. I play mmos for about 15 years and this is the only mmo which got worse over time performance wise and not better. And its actual the first mmo i stop playing because i cant play but i want to play. most of my guildmembers and friends stopped with ESO because you cant play it in the primetime.

Its such a shame that zos destroys his own game, at least for pvp players.

Tldr: fix lag in cyrodil. better communication with the player base.

hrothbern

Iyas wrote: »

You have to unterstand most of the complainers. Im a pvp player and love everything about the pvp in the game but the game wont allow me to play when i want.
Want to play on primetime on azura, eu? Yeah better log out. And so many things are driving me away from the game. I play mmos for about 15 years and this is the only mmo which got worse over time performance wise and not better. And its actual the first mmo i stop playing because i cant play but i want to play. most of my guildmembers and friends stopped with ESO because you cant play it in the primetime.

Its such a shame that zos destroys his own game, at least for pvp players.

Tldr: fix lag in cyrodil. better communication with the player base.

The lag in Cyrodiil has nothing to do with lack of listening to the PVP player base.

period.

Iyas

hrothbern wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

You have to unterstand most of the complainers. Im a pvp player and love everything about the pvp in the game but the game wont allow me to play when i want.
Want to play on primetime on azura, eu? Yeah better log out. And so many things are driving me away from the game. I play mmos for about 15 years and this is the only mmo which got worse over time performance wise and not better. And its actual the first mmo i stop playing because i cant play but i want to play. most of my guildmembers and friends stopped with ESO because you cant play it in the primetime.

Its such a shame that zos destroys his own game, at least for pvp players.

Tldr: fix lag in cyrodil. better communication with the player base.

The lag in Cyrodiil has nothing to do with lack of listening to the PVP player base.

period.

Okay? There are so many ideas from the community to fix the lag but most of the times we didnt get a lurk from a dev or god forbid, an answer.

I mean you wrote period so you have to be right.

altemriel

hrothbern wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

You have to unterstand most of the complainers. Im a pvp player and love everything about the pvp in the game but the game wont allow me to play when i want.
Want to play on primetime on azura, eu? Yeah better log out. And so many things are driving me away from the game. I play mmos for about 15 years and this is the only mmo which got worse over time performance wise and not better. And its actual the first mmo i stop playing because i cant play but i want to play. most of my guildmembers and friends stopped with ESO because you cant play it in the primetime.

Its such a shame that zos destroys his own game, at least for pvp players.

Tldr: fix lag in cyrodil. better communication with the player base.

The lag in Cyrodiil has nothing to do with lack of listening to the PVP player base.

period.

What is in your opinion the reason for the lags? And how would you solve it?