Buff Siege Weapon Damage Against Players

Daveheart

No - State Why

We wiped many groups last night with well-placed siege and sold tactics. That being said, you could make several changes that would help it. I'd start by just removing the AoE cap entirely, and I might make the siege ignore CP reductions. Rather than buffing the actual damage of the siege, you get rid of some of the factors used to mitigate it's damage. Balling up would be a less effective way to reduce damage, and CP wouldn't make the siege hit for 25% less.

Shardaxx

Yes - State Why

I can fire an oil catapult at a level 16 all day and night, it barely scratches their health, and what little damage it does is instantly healed. All the siege engines designed for firing at people (fire, oil, ice, lightning and meat) are basically useless, the only ones worth getting are the stone trebuchet and the battering ram.

Alucardo

Yes - State Why

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

(slight note of sarcasm there for dramatic effect, even though the siege is so woefully underpowered I feel as though I can go afk for a hour and still be alive)

I reset my champion points while getting sieged. 'Cause why the hell not

OmniDevil

Yes - State Why

Siege weapon damage, Pre-IC was ridiculously high, however. It was one thing that really helped in defending a siege. Though it is still possible, I'm finding that the amount of successful keeps defended now, compared to Pre-IC is significantly lower and the only thing that seems to have changed is the now low siege weapon damage.

Jaronking

Yes - State Why

Am tired of siege doing nothing buff it please.

threefarms

Yes - State Why

Also, you should remove battle leveling.

Resipsa131

Yes - State Why

It might actually make siege shield support ability worth while on my healer

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Resipsa131 wrote: »

It might actually make siege shield support ability worth while on my healer

That was something that I never bothered putting on when I got involved in attacking the main gate with 10+ others. Some would use Mutagen & Healing Springs, I'd drop Purifying Ritual and just BoL as 2-3 oil pots would rain down upon us at the Battering Ram, so even though some people's health eventually dropped low, it was easily fixed and cleansed simply from heals and people clicking their synergy cleanse buttons.

At first, I forgot to slot Siege Shield, but because of this, I didn't... the Ram did die quickly though, but after another got put up, you could just spam a few siege bandages on it.

Islyn

Yes - State Why

Because it is a SIEGE WEAPON - meant to do massive damage to buildings. I think buildings should have substantially higher HP than puny people.

I believe strongly that if you don't get out of red you deserve a big rock to the face that kills you. Literally.

Prodigy1971

No - State Why

No. Died too many times because of siege weapons. Its almost impossible to evade the damage of balistas at short range, too quick.

Turelus

Yes - State Why

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Noted, and Siege is going through testing again internally with new sets, champ points, etc.

Thanks for the update @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Any chance the less popular siege weapons can get another pass during this time and bring them up as something interesting to use.

For example have you considered making scatter-shots some kind of Glitterdust (if I can steal a spell from D&D/Pathfinder) where players hit by the siege can't take advantage of sneaking for a while as they're covered in a sparkly dust. Still wouldn't be used constantly but would be something more useful than a low damage large range AoE.

Oil catapolts are good in theory however far too easily countered by a single rapid menouver, I don't want to see them as the "I win" siege but maybe some kind of buff here.

Ice trebs maybe actually freeze people in place as a root effect? A great way to hold some people in place and make them burn some stamina to break it.

Lightning balistas, not sure on this one... just something which brings them up as an interesting alternative to the fire ones.

Also any information on when we will see the return of camps?

Carter_DC

No - State Why

As much as i'd like a bit more challenge for ppl trying to siege while under fire of the defending party, i clearly don't want AP farming with a single siege weapon.
Staying on top of the wall with a fire balista should be a good harassment, discouraging ppl to siege and killing ppl that stand in stupid, using no purge nor heals.

However it should not enable 1 person to kill 10 ppl at a time.
It's seems to me, reading theses posts that it's what lots of ppl here are wishing.

Turelus

Yes - State Why

Carter_DC wrote: »

As much as i'd like a bit more challenge for ppl trying to siege while under fire of the defending party, i clearly don't want AP farming with a single siege weapon.
Staying on top of the wall with a fire balista should be a good harassment, discouraging ppl to siege and killing ppl that stand in stupid, using no purge nor heals.

However it should not enable 1 person to kill 10 ppl at a time.
It's seems to me, reading theses posts that it's what lots of ppl here are wishing.

Yet this is possible without a siege and the 1vX crowed are fine with it.

What people want is sieges to be the thing which stops people stacking and spamming heals/AoE. There was a time before IC when we were pretty close to that, it could be done with enough coordination, but if you have enough players time a siege fire correctly any zergs would instantly die.

Also siege/keep fights are built around large gang combat, that's what the entire of Cyrodiil PvP was designed and sold on, hundreds of players on screen fighting. There is nothing wrong with solo or small gang warfare but the entire of the game, especially siege warfare can't be balanced around those players.

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Prodigy1971 wrote: »

No. Died too many times because of siege weapons. Its almost impossible to evade the damage of balistas at short range, too quick.

If you've died too many times because of siege weapons, then that means you're not purging/cleansing/out-healing the damage/using absorbs/other defensives/using a siege shield, etc etc

My first few months of Cyrodiil, I used to be in a pretty dedicated team with a serious leader who'd kick anybody not stacking on/with the crown (him) and we'd coordinately take out some of the bigger zergs with our fire ballista and oil pot setup, at certain places on the map.

Between Chalman Keep and Bleakers Outpost, we used to set up a couple of Oil Pots on the public tower gate place, and then 4 fire ballistas aiming directly at the door when the Dagger zergs were pushing up. This was being the Imperial City update when siege weapons were perfect. It worked well sometimes, but of course most times their groups would wait for a break between Ballista shots and Oil pours, then storm straight through and wipe us out.

An army of players no longer feel threatened to run through situations just like that, because they'll only have a small bit of fire damage ticking their health away which would instantly be cleansed by Mutagen and healed up anyway, even if multiple Ballista's hit the target.

There's an option to burn siege weapons for a reason, at the end of the day.

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Carter_DC wrote: »

As much as i'd like a bit more challenge for ppl trying to siege while under fire of the defending party, i clearly don't want AP farming with a single siege weapon.
Staying on top of the wall with a fire balista should be a good harassment, discouraging ppl to siege and killing ppl that stand in stupid, using no purge nor heals.

However it should not enable 1 person to kill 10 ppl at a time.
It's seems to me, reading theses posts that it's what lots of ppl here are wishing.

I'm against AP farming in towers/broken stairways inside keeps. That's not what I intend to provoke, but when you REALLY think about it, what's worse?

Zergballs farming players inside their own keeps by stacking ontop of each other with 75% damage taken, as they spam AOEs such as Steel Tornado? There's many videos of it happening, just in case you weren't aware of this. It's gotten so bad, that people just can't do anything other than avoid them, and that is where Siege Weapon Damage comes in... but since it's so weak right now, it's useless again them and enemies in general.

MrGrimey

Yes - State Why

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Carter_DC wrote: »

As much as i'd like a bit more challenge for ppl trying to siege while under fire of the defending party, i clearly don't want AP farming with a single siege weapon.
Staying on top of the wall with a fire balista should be a good harassment, discouraging ppl to siege and killing ppl that stand in stupid, using no purge nor heals.

However it should not enable 1 person to kill 10 ppl at a time.
It's seems to me, reading theses posts that it's what lots of ppl here are wishing.

I'm against AP farming in towers/broken stairways inside keeps. That's not what I intend to provoke, but when you REALLY think about it, what's worse?

Zergballs farming players inside their own keeps by stacking ontop of each other with 75% damage taken, as they spam AOEs such as Steel Tornado? There's many videos of it happening, just in case you weren't aware of this. It's gotten so bad, that people just can't do anything other than avoid them, and that is where Siege Weapon Damage comes in... but since it's so weak right now, it's useless again them and enemies in general.

Exactly... Pretty much every change in the IC update buffed zegballs. Even the change to snares which makes it almost impossible to run away from Zergs.

I thought siege weapons were the dumbest thing when I first started playing this game... But now I realize that they are a necessary evil to keep Zerg groups that dog pile on eachother in check

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

threefarms wrote: »

Also, you should remove battle leveling.

I was thinking the other day, maybe they could make a campaign that has no battle leveling buff, just to see how it goes...

I'd definitely give it a try.

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Panth141 wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

*sigh*
This went downhill.

On topic, I've literally just watched 5 people on a ram (though with a siege shield) have two pots of oil poured right on them - they maybe lost 5% of their health before you could see three of them simultaneously purge. Flaming oil is now ineffective and useless for most defences.

Also, mod arrival in 3, 2, 1...

Indeed... I'm no longer responding to those kind of hateful comments. Serves no purpose, really.

That's disgusting that, I witnessed similar earlier. I was pouring 2 oils above the main gate against a small group too, and of course non of them died, they ended up just getting through with stainless clothing/armor, and onto the next door. ^^

Just recorded an example of oil damage - no buffs, no food, only took me down to 50% when I just let it tick away...

EDIT: Uploaded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1GDcL1Pd_4

When you uploaded this, I had a similar encounter on the same bridge... 1 pour of the oil pot put me on about 50% health as I casually walked under it, this is also with 0 CP points in Elemental defender. o.O

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Can't wait for future changes to siege weapons. I keep thinking about this topic while I'm in Cyrodiil, trying to defend keeps with no luck. Fairy liquid oil pots and sponge ballistas....

Can't even resort to using Cillit Bang unfortunately.

SHADOW2KK

Yes - State Why

Buff Siege faster!!!!:D

Angarato

Yes - State Why

ballista siege are stationary easy to destroy short lasting AP costing weapons that hit softer than a white quality bow with heavy attack, this is a problem, buff siege remove aoe caps. if you all blob up and someone throws a flaming boulding on it people should die

Rakno87

Yes - State Why

REMOVE AOE CAPS!!!! STOP IT WITH THE ROUND ABOUT WAYS TO FIX IT...

But yeah there needs to be a slight buff to the dmg not crazy... Removing AOE caps would just solve it better

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Siege is not the answer to stop zerging. Removing AoE caps and making prox det do a small base dmg to 1 person and then increase in strength to how many it hits is the road to ending zergs.


NOT SIEGE!

This here is a good point!

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

People can just spam purge. It dosent even matter if your getting hit by oil anymore. You add a siege shield on top and its hopeless for any defenders.

BUFF SIEGE DAMAGE!!!

also it would be nice if skills like Barrier or Purge also had the AoE cap. If you not going to remove it, place it on all skills. These two skills are assisting unstoppable Zerg's.

AND THEN THERE IS THIS!!!

FIX IT IF YOU WANT PVP TO SURVIVE ANOTHER 6 MONTHS!!!!

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Angarato wrote: »

ballista siege are stationary easy to destroy short lasting AP costing weapons that hit softer than a white quality bow with heavy attack, this is a problem, buff siege remove aoe caps. if you all blob up and someone throws a flaming boulding on it people should die

Yes this is what I was trying to explain to people who were against the idea... like you said...

• Siege weapons are stationary
• Slow
• Easy to destroy by either burning them, CC-ing/killing the player operating them with your own abilities and/or with another siege weapon.
• They cost AP.
• They don't last that long, especially if the player leaves them for a short time, they'll become inactive and automatically self destruct.

Etc etc

nimander99

Didn't they try that not too long ago to the tune of 100k damage insta deaths?

RAGUNAnoOne

Yes - State Why

nimander99 wrote: »

Didn't they try that not too long ago to the tune of 100k damage insta deaths?

probably but it was a hell of a lot better than the wet noodles they have now. if you stand in stupid you should be a corpse (I nag my group members about that all the time at least TRY to get out of the circles).

Digiman

nimander99 wrote: »

Didn't they try that not too long ago to the tune of 100k damage insta deaths?

Yes they did, it broke up groups with endless healing and actually forced players to destroy the giant ballistae infront of them instead of bunching around in a circle.

Personally I was happy when the engines hit like a mach truck, it wasn't that hard to avoid them either.

Titan1373

Yes - State Why

As a vamp I fear camouflage hunters standing alone on a wall more than multiple siege weapons. Pretty bad lol. Siege weapons should hit hard. If you get hit in that big red circle you deserve to lose at least 1/2 your life, as long as it's the right siege weapon. There should be considerable damage differences on a player or wall, depending on the siege striking them.

Solariken

Yes - State Why

The explicit siege damage is sort of irrelevant. I just want to see AoE caps removed so that I can effectively damage all the players I actually hit...

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Didn't they try that not too long ago to the tune of 100k damage insta deaths?

probably but it was a hell of a lot better than the wet noodles they have now. if you stand in stupid you should be a corpse (I nag my group members about that all the time at least TRY to get out of the circles).

I enjoyed dodge-rolling out of red circles but now? stand in em! take a shower in them if you must. lol

Molag_Crow

Yes - State Why

Titan1373 wrote: »

As a vamp I fear camouflage hunters standing alone on a wall more than multiple siege weapons. Pretty bad lol. Siege weapons should hit hard. If you get hit in that big red circle you deserve to lose at least 1/2 your life, as long as it's the right siege weapon. There should be considerable damage differences on a player or wall, depending on the siege striking them.

That made me cure Vampirism so fast, but in a way, I kinda regret it despite Mist Form being bugged like crazy because Bat Swarm is brilliant in most situations. You know it's bad when you're avoiding player's abilities more than a big ass siege weapon