Talking about Bind on Pick up (Again, Poll Included)

Nifty2g

Wollust wrote: »

The games economy is screwed so hard by now. Not only are the PvPers not able to change ap to gold, but the PvEers can't sell their stuff like they used to. Then we got the huge moneysink maelstrom arena and the incredibly expensive new mats, leaving a lot of people with close to no gold left. The only way to make gold by now is either you go buy stuff cheap and sell it more expensive or you start farming. Quite frustrating for those who don't like doing those things and just want to be able to play the game like they used to. We had such a nice, balanced economy when almost everything was BoE. The PvErs would sell their loot and the PvPers would sell the necessary min/max items for the PvErs.

I spent more time farming this week than I spent PvPing. And I know a lot of people doing the same. But I'm sure, we won't be doing this for long. The frustration is real.

No one should be forced to farm anything if you're not into that playstyle. I know your pain bro

Psilent

Nifty2g wrote: »

So here's the main problem and sorry to come across as egotistical or whatever but I'm going to do it to get my point across (just warning you now, however this issue also applies to you just in different circumstances)

I'm in one of top PvE Raid Guilds in NA and I've completed and been #1 on leader boards for over a year now, since the longest time I used to sell the items I got from PvE content that many people couldn't really obtain or didn't want to do the content to obtain (PvP players). I used to sell gear from Veteran Dragonstar Arena as well a lot of people did so, it was an excellent way to provide gear to friends and a way to make gold. This doesn't just apply to me, this applies to the tanks who pick up Healer gear, this applies to the Stamina users who pick up Healer gear and Footman gear, this applies to people who already have their gear. Not to mention all of the gear within Trials (except last boss) were all Bind on Equip.

Now fast forward to the release of Imperial City,
2 New Dungeons |12 New Gear Sets | Random Traits | Low Drop Rates | Daedric Shackle Trophies | Daedric Ember Trophies | Imperial City Sewers

I had thought to myself there's really not much gear I want from these dungeons so before this content was released I thought to myself I'm going to help some people out, I go into the dungeons get a few pieces of Stamina gear but I don't really need it, it came Bound, you can't sell it you can't do anything with it, not only that but you get the perfect piece that someone in your group or friends list has been trying to get and you can't even trade them or sell the gear to them. Not only that but you can't sell or trade Daedric Shackles or Daedrick Embers. This causes a huge problem for the PvE player Zenimax, there is no income for PvE Content. None.

Now, lets talk about Imperial City Sewers; all the trophies are Bind on Equip, all the gear is Bind on Equip - see the problem this has created?



Now fast forward to the release of Orsinium
Solo Arena |10 New Gear Sets | Random Traits | Low Drop Rates

This isn't even out yet and I hope this is changed when it comes to Live that you make it work how Veteran Dragonstar Arena works, all the gear is Bind on Equip except for Masters Weapons, for obvious reason, not a lot of people will complete this dungeon, and not a lot of people will find half of this gear useful as some other people will but wont ever get it with this current system. I spoke to @Dymence about the gear to make sure and it's confirmed all the gear is Bind on Pickup in Arena.


This is quickly becoming a problem, no this isn't a thing of work for your gear, this is a problem for in game economy it's quickly dying down, there is zero ways to make gold for a strictly PvE player unless you decide to join everyone else in the Imperial City Sewers to grind mobs, which I don't understand if that content drops Bind on Equip sets but others don't?

Another reason this becomes a problem is because of the current in game prices like so


With the price of Ancestor Silk cost 10,000+ gold for 200 (which creates 1 piece of Armor), that would cost around 600,000 gold per player to create a 5 piece of armor (if you use undaunted 9, if you don't then it's 800,000)


TL;DR Get rid of Bind on Pickup from Solo and Group content you are utterly destroying ways to make gold for the PvE player. (22 new sets are BoP, that is a massive number)

Isn't this because the game went B2P? Dragonstar Arena was during subscriptions, so everyone had to be paying to play. I figured this was just a way to get more people to buy the DLC.

G0ku

Nifty2g wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Nifty2g , I agree that tradition is an important thing to have, but do you think there could be more advantages than disadvantages if the weapons were to be BOE and the armor where to be BOP?

There needs to be some level of achievement for the *hardcore* player and i suppose that should be master weapons but that's just what i think

Items should never be the achievement for doing something. Better polymorphs or whatever. I did vDSA countless times and I never got the weapon with the right trait that I wanted. never ever

Hell, I was the first on AD EU to complete and it took me 15 runs before I got a part of a set / master weapon. Yea you´re reading right, at first it could happen on finishing vDSA that you loot epic trash from the last chest.

The BoP thing is the worst kind of bs with the rng involved in this game. They should at least let group members exchange loot while they´re at it.

This time I´ll wait for them to nerf vMSA inot oblivion so I can do some ez pz runs with low costs to try my chance on those new weapons as I know I will once again not manage to a sharpened staff...

@MrBeatDown could you explain for dummies what the numbers thing is you talking about? which number 36?

I'm personally against Master Weapons being BoE but that's just me

well at least they should fix their rng then, all my drops were weighted excluding one precise masters bow. but then again, I didn´t do stamina

Faulgor

Scyantific wrote: »

Everything except for Undaunted and Maelstrom/Master sets should be BoE. The economy was chugging along nicely before IC.

-PvE folk wanted stuff like Cyro/Ravager's, so they hit up someone who lived in PvP and bought it from them.
-PvP folk wanted stuff like Adroit/Warlock, so they hit up someone who did PvE all day and bought it from them.

It was a good way to keep the gold flowing around.

BoP murdered that.

Exactly. I'd really like to have the new Akaviri style, but I'll never get enough AP to buy it from a vendor. Where's the problem if I trade PvE stuff with someone who mainly likes to PvP? There's more player interaction, more incentive to run both types of content becaue there are more options what to do with your reward, and both players are happy and will stay in the game.

The current state is even more disturbing because they promised at the B2P announcement that items from DLCs would be tradeable.

Volkodav

I have never understood why they have the bind on pickup bit.

Master_Fluff

The current state is even more disturbing because they promised at the B2P announcement that items from DLCs would be tradeable.

Malachite shards, IC trophy vault "keys", motif page fragments, IC jewellery, casseritite (whatever the spelling), the new crafting materials are tradeable. I guess that's ZOS way of keeping that promise.

Nifty2g

I wonder if ZOS will acknowledge this thread and the amount of votes... seems the community is vastly against it

Hiero_Glyph

So I still feel that BoP should only qualify for Master's weapon and Monster helms. That being said I don't think that flooding the market with items is a good solution either. This means that the drop rates would need to be decreased if the items are BoE. While this may seem harsh, I still feel that this is the best solution for salvaging the game's economy.

This also means that guaranteed Maelstrom chest rewards will need to be adjusted as the drop rate is far too high if these items become BoE. Still, there could still be a 15-25% drop chance for new set items so each run would yield ~1-2 tradable set items. Players should still be rewarded for completing each section so the rewards just need to be useful but less profitable.

LadyNalcarya

G0ku wrote: »

well at least they should fix their rng then, all my drops were weighted excluding one precise masters bow. but then again, I didn´t do stamina

Well, if master weapons must be BoP, they should have a bit better drop rate and traits... I'm a bit tired of deconstructing master weapons with "charged" and "weighted" traits.
And I'm absolutely against BoP on set items, they should be tradeable. Because it's really annoying when you're getting sets you dont need and cannot even give them to a teammate who actually needs them. And being able to trade/sell sets would be good for game's economy imo.

kuscoe

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

well at least they should fix their rng then, all my drops were weighted excluding one precise masters bow. but then again, I didn´t do stamina

Well, if master weapons must be BoP, they should have a bit better drop rate and traits... I'm a bit tired of deconstructing master weapons with "charged" and "weighted" traits.
And I'm absolutely against BoP on set items, they should be tradeable. Because it's really annoying when you're getting sets you dont need and cannot even give them to a teammate who actually needs them. And being able to trade/sell sets would be good for game's economy imo.

Brah 5/8 of my weapon drops are defending

StihlReign

Scyantific wrote: »

Everything except for Undaunted and Maelstrom/Master sets should be BoE. The economy was chugging along nicely before IC.

-PvE folk wanted stuff like Cyro/Ravager's, so they hit up someone who lived in PvP and bought it from them.
-PvP folk wanted stuff like Adroit/Warlock, so they hit up someone who did PvE all day and bought it from them.

It was a good way to keep the gold flowing around.

BoP murdered that.

I agree except for Master weapons...

Most master weapons have terrible traits (Shouldn't only apply to one skill in a skill tree), and I've had tons that are simply useless.

Should be able to trade or sell them as well.

There's no good reason to limit me from doing what I want with gear I earned. I should be able to sell it to anyone.

Currently all I can do is decon.

Gelassenheit

I agree that some items should be BoE, while others BoP.

End-game rewards like the Master's and Maelstrom equipment should, in my opinion, be BoP. Much like how vDSA works, several of the pieces should be BoE.

PvE players, as many before me have said, have little to no source of income - having drops as BoE was our source of income. Providing that equipment to players who either could not complete that content, or chose not to partake in it. That being said, I believe that there should remain some motivation to continue with PvE content by providing some BoP items (like Master's and Maelstrom weapons).

I'd also support changing all the IC dungeon sets (and the new MA sets) to BoE, or at very least, trade-able to other members of the group within a small time window (about an hour or so). There have been countless times when I've gotten my 12th+ essence thief pants or gloves or something, while my group mate has been farming for that for weeks. I personally did 400+ runs of a mix between nWGT and vWGT (about 50/50) to get my very first pair of spell power cure gloves.

Taemethius

I opened my first chest and got 2 jolting set pieces both with well fitted trait. Im also a sorc so I was a little confused and started looking for a camera crew to jump out and say haha we got ya. Loot system is so flawed.

Nifty2g

well good to see zos continuing to ignore this with the newest patch
any word @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert ?

cote-bmsb16_ESO

If BOP was removed or nerfed in anyway for these nice sets, all of my guild would have all their gear a long time ago. This way keeps us running dungeons and other content. Its obvious why BOP is here, to keep players playing.

WebBull

I would suggest that all bind on pick up items be allowed to be converted to bind on equip through a Sigil of Unbinding. This Sigil can be made by crafters and also sold in the crown store (similar to xp pots). This would only apply to BoP items that have not been equipped.

This idea would benefit sellers, buyers, crafters, and even ZOS through the crown store.

Personofsecrets

Good luck with this issue everyone. BOP has been a super jarring experience for tons of people @ZOS_MattFiror . Can you talk to @ZOS_RichLambert about this. Everyone.... EVERYONE wants to be able to sell their items.

Nifty2g

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

If BOP was removed or nerfed in anyway for these nice sets, all of my guild would have all their gear a long time ago. This way keeps us running dungeons and other content. Its obvious why BOP is here, to keep players playing.

Best in slot gear is craftable, subpar gear is dropped. Sell the subpar gear to those who can't spend 600k for crafted gear

Paulhewhewria

100% agree this is way too much BOP crap I'm tired of this and plus I don't understand how the games economy is going.In my opinion only motifs and recipes are all that is worth selling any more and even then the new motifs and style mats are a *** to get some are even BOP.

timidobserver

It does suck that it actually costs you to do Maelstrom Arena. There is no way to recoup your losses.

AFrostWolf

Bind on Pickup is going to make me quit. I hate BOP. I even hate BOE but can see why it's a thing. BOE is fine. BOP is annoying.

Makkir

I voted incorrectly so please excuse that.

One of the things that sold me on this game was the mention that crafted gear would be on par or better than dropped gear.

That to me is the shiniest thing about an MMO.

Thankfully, in the case of my current build, the crafted sets are somewhat BiS.

baratron

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

I said to remove it, but I think it SHOULD exist but only on those very specific 'personalized' weapons (IE arena weapons, undaunted sets, etc)

But the sets in wrothgar, WHY THE HECK are they BoP?

It makes no sense, esp since the game seems to want to give you pieces for the sets that you would NEVER Use. I got at least 2 full 'perfect' v16 sets, including 3 jewelry pieces, for the tank and healer sets, but haven't found more than 2 pieces of the briarheart, only 1 of which is v16 - If it was BoE I could have traded my sets to others, who defiantly need more than I would - as i am only deconing them, for stuff I COULD use.

Agree. There is no reason on earth for the Wrothgar sets to be Bind on Pickup.

Treaborne wrote: »

Good point regarding the loot system, and I think in some cases the bind on pickup should apply to certain item TYPES.

However there should be an option when looting to choose "Pass Group Roll" that would or could allow others in group to get those BOP items.

This should also come with a catch that would only allow it with a certain number of players in the group.

I totally agree. I voted "Other" because my preference for 'Bind on Pickup' would be to have it limited to the group of players present rather than to the single player who picked it up.

If I am running dungeons or trials with a group, it should be possible for items picked up during the dungeon or trial to be swapped among the players who were present at the time - at least, before leaving the dungeon. Otherwise you end up with situations where my Stamina Tank friend has a fine collection of Light armor Hats along with a full Worm Cult set, while I, the Healer, have a fine collection of Medium Helmets and Heavy Helms.

Lithium Flower

The BoP dilemma with Orsinium and IC is beyond ridiculous. BoP rewards for that one or two special gear to top off a good build or work towards a niche one is fine, even good. We used to have some rare BoP dungeon sets that were worth running dungeons again and again for, but not super essential like Wormcult or Ebon Armory or Relics of the Physician, Ansur. Even the niche stuff that drops from IC dungeons (excepting the horrible random trait nonsense) is all right. The dungeon helm sets.

But this? Every single new set in Orsinium is BoP. Every single drop from Maelstrom is BoP. The height of this ridiculousness is that even something as mundane as laurels for making mercenary gear is BoP. A crafter shouldn't have to run a whole pledge dungeon that he may or may not want to do to make a single item for someone else. Most crafters don't charge anything for helping out friends and guild mates, the least we can expect is someone to provide the materials at least but no. How do you even quantify what a laurel is worth? 500g? 5000g? 50,000g? If I have two hours to play every day and need to spend 30 minutes of that running one vet dungeon to craft 1 piece of gear (and 7 to craft 7 pieces) - how much is that time worth to a friend/guildmate who wants his gear in mercenary style? And how is he supposed to make any gold to pay me with anyway?

I am feeling no excitement, no fun, getting no joy from playing Orsinium when the entire DLC is stressing me out over every single thing.

A ridiculous gear grind, a horrible material grind, and even a terrible crafting style stone grind. Grind. Grind. Grind. How on earth are players supposed to convey to ZOS how much we hate this?

@ZOS_GinaBruno ; @ZOS_RichLambert

SeptimusDova

had to bail on vMA today ran out of gold and armor was at zero. Forget it. going to do other things in Wrothgar.

hrothbern

Lithium Flower wrote: »

The BoP dilemma with Orsinium and IC is beyond ridiculous. BoP rewards for that one or two special gear to top off a good build or work towards a niche one is fine, even good. We used to have some rare BoP dungeon sets that were worth running dungeons again and again for, but not super essential like Wormcult or Ebon Armory or Relics of the Physician, Ansur. Even the niche stuff that drops from IC dungeons (excepting the horrible random trait nonsense) is all right. The dungeon helm sets.

But this? Every single new set in Orsinium is BoP. Every single drop from Maelstrom is BoP. The height of this ridiculousness is that even something as mundane as laurels for making mercenary gear is BoP. A crafter shouldn't have to run a whole pledge dungeon that he may or may not want to do to make a single item for someone else. Most crafters don't charge anything for helping out friends and guild mates, the least we can expect is someone to provide the materials at least but no. How do you even quantify what a laurel is worth? 500g? 5000g? 50,000g? If I have two hours to play every day and need to spend 30 minutes of that running one vet dungeon to craft 1 piece of gear (and 7 to craft 7 pieces) - how much is that time worth to a friend/guildmate who wants his gear in mercenary style? And how is he supposed to make any gold to pay me with anyway?

I am feeling no excitement, no fun, getting no joy from playing Orsinium when the entire DLC is stressing me out over every single thing.

A ridiculous gear grind, a horrible material grind, and even a terrible crafting style stone grind. Grind. Grind. Grind. How on earth are players supposed to convey to ZOS how much we hate this?

@ZOS_GinaBruno ; @ZOS_RichLambert

Perhaps we should have a credit card for armor set pieces....

Then we have instantly our dream set and some day we find the gear to pay back

saving up for something, pondering on the right choice....
surely such antediluvial approaches are outdated in a MMO

or not?

hrothbern

SeptimusDova wrote: »

had to bail on vMA today ran out of gold and armor was at zero. Forget it. going to do other things in Wrothgar.

I wait with Vet Maelstrom Arena until I have 500 CP or so.
to keep my costs in gold and time low enough to make it worthwhile.

Perhaps, perhaps.... ZOS has meanwhile added substantial gold loot to cover a fair share of our expenses...
and ZOS has realised that if they stick to the current principles regarding BOP, that they have to increase the drop rate.

added:
BTW: Sigils that do full armor set repairs would be nice !

Lithium Flower

Oh but you do have Sigils that do full armour repairs! They're called Crown Repair Kits.

dwtdwtdwt

If BoP is here to stay, at least give the player the option to loot from an appropriate chest container. One that holds light armor gear, one that holds medium armor, and one that holds heavy gear. I am sick and tiered of receiving rewards that my character doesn't use or need.

I have been playing one character that has been wearing medium armor since the game launch. Why am I receiving light armor with magicka stats for completing end-game content? This should have stopped a long time ago.

Xsorus

Bop in orsiunum is stupid, the game was fine how it was; this is one of those useless changes they do that just ended up making the game shittier for no reason