Talking about Bind on Pick up (Again, Poll Included)

Nifty2g

So here's the main problem and sorry to come across as egotistical or whatever but I'm going to do it to get my point across (just warning you now, however this issue also applies to you just in different circumstances)

I'm in one of top PvE Raid Guilds in NA and I've completed and been #1 on leader boards for over a year now, since the longest time I used to sell the items I got from PvE content that many people couldn't really obtain or didn't want to do the content to obtain (PvP players). I used to sell gear from Veteran Dragonstar Arena as well a lot of people did so, it was an excellent way to provide gear to friends and a way to make gold. This doesn't just apply to me, this applies to the tanks who pick up Healer gear, this applies to the Stamina users who pick up Healer gear and Footman gear, this applies to people who already have their gear. Not to mention all of the gear within Trials (except last boss) were all Bind on Equip.

Now fast forward to the release of Imperial City,
2 New Dungeons |12 New Gear Sets | Random Traits | Low Drop Rates | Daedric Shackle Trophies | Daedric Ember Trophies | Imperial City Sewers

I had thought to myself there's really not much gear I want from these dungeons so before this content was released I thought to myself I'm going to help some people out, I go into the dungeons get a few pieces of Stamina gear but I don't really need it, it came Bound, you can't sell it you can't do anything with it, not only that but you get the perfect piece that someone in your group or friends list has been trying to get and you can't even trade them or sell the gear to them. Not only that but you can't sell or trade Daedric Shackles or Daedrick Embers. This causes a huge problem for the PvE player Zenimax, there is no income for PvE Content. None.

Now, lets talk about Imperial City Sewers; all the trophies are Bind on Equip, all the gear is Bind on Equip - see the problem this has created?



Now fast forward to the release of Orsinium
Solo Arena |10 New Gear Sets | Random Traits | Low Drop Rates

This isn't even out yet and I hope this is changed when it comes to Live that you make it work how Veteran Dragonstar Arena works, all the gear is Bind on Equip except for Masters Weapons, for obvious reason, not a lot of people will complete this dungeon, and not a lot of people will find half of this gear useful as some other people will but wont ever get it with this current system. I spoke to @Dymence about the gear to make sure and it's confirmed all the gear is Bind on Pickup in Arena.


This is quickly becoming a problem, no this isn't a thing of work for your gear, this is a problem for in game economy it's quickly dying down, there is zero ways to make gold for a strictly PvE player unless you decide to join everyone else in the Imperial City Sewers to grind mobs, which I don't understand if that content drops Bind on Equip sets but others don't?

Another reason this becomes a problem is because of the current in game prices like so


With the price of Ancestor Silk cost 10,000+ gold for 200 (which creates 1 piece of Armor), that would cost around 600,000 gold per player to create a 5 piece of armor (if you use undaunted 9, if you don't then it's 800,000)


TL;DR Get rid of Bind on Pickup from Solo and Group content you are utterly destroying ways to make gold for the PvE player. (22 new sets are BoP, that is a massive number)

Emma_Overload

BoP has always been unfair because so much of the BoP stuff is locked behind group-walled content that many players simply can't reach on their own initiative.

I think the best solution is to convert every drop that is currently Bind-on-Pickup into Bind-on-Equip. When do you EVER hear anyone seriously complaining about BoE? Yet you hear people complain about BoP all the time. Just get rid of BoP, and the complaints will stop.

MrDerrikk

I personally think that there should be some sets (Undaunted, Master etc) that are Bind on Pickup, but other than those I see no reason to have it so common on sets. People shouldn't need to grind and work really hard just for a normal set that they cannot trade and most likely cannot use; rather this should be applied to the special weapons/armor that is already in-game.

AlnilamE

There should definitely be a mix of BoE and BoP gear in the new content (and in the IC dungeons).

Nirnrot

I agree with the OP the in game economy thrives on BOE gear. If you make more items BOP they will become decon junk and or sold as vendor trash. All of that hard work for what? A couple mats or gold? I understand that these things are a careful balance but so is the ingame economy.

Personofsecrets

I don't see why BOP on Maelstrom weapons is obvious.

MrBeatDown

I voted Remove Bind on Pickup.

Why? Because it really doesnt serve a purpose since it should be Bind on Equip anyway.
I hate any and all Bind on anything gear, but i deal with it since i undestand that someone will just open up a e shop and sell the items for cash.

The RnG also needs a rework. Its really poor and ive discovered that the loot is dropped based on server information. Best loot servers is 35,36, 38 and thats for V ICP and V WGT. Anything before that like 29, 30, 33, 151, 155, etc etc is just a dry run.

Never really cracked the undaunted chest as keys are only 1 time a day deal and its hard getting a 36 in deshaan. but i have gotten shoulders from a 32.

I never run a dungeon on *** server number. My group ALWAYS GETS GEAR. ALWAYS. But we didnt try to tear it down much more and catalogue everything to see what numbers drops what sets, because we just got tired of it and really didnt care anymore after we cracked the loot server distribution. We noticed that it was random on sets and with 4 people running it, you would think we could tell you what numbers drop what sets, but we stopped because we already knew they planned on buffing the loot drops anyway for these dungeons.

I really dont care anymore, we legit run the dungeon several times and i have multiples of trash from these dungeons. Nothing illegal about what we did. Nothing at all. Since they are nerfing the dungeons now, and making them easier to complete, and re implementing how the LFG Tool works, it will be interesting to see if they change the loot server's and see how the drops are affected by the changes to boss drops like in V ICP since they are moving the loot to a chest now.


Anyways, Take away BoP its trash and RnG needs a rework.

Nifty2g

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I don't see why BOP on Maelstrom weapons is obvious.

It should follow the same pattern as VDSA had, master weapons is worth to keep the grind going and the other gear that drops should all be BoE to make the grind worth it.
Soon enough we will all run out of gold unable to repair, unable to buy potions and then what?

Personofsecrets

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I don't see why BOP on Maelstrom weapons is obvious.

It should follow the same pattern as VDSA had, master weapons is worth to keep the grind going and the other gear that drops should all be BoE to make the grind worth it.
Soon enough we will all run out of gold unable to repair, unable to buy potions and then what?

Why should it follow the same pattern that VDSA had? I mean, I know a person that quit over VDSA traits on Master weapons and several that never got the weapon the wanted, try after try, and I don't even mean the right item with the wrong trait - I mean they didn't get the weapon period.

I think the same logic that makes an argument for BOE can be applied to all gear.

MrBeatDown

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I don't see why BOP on Maelstrom weapons is obvious.

It should follow the same pattern as VDSA had, master weapons is worth to keep the grind going and the other gear that drops should all be BoE to make the grind worth it.
Soon enough we will all run out of gold unable to repair, unable to buy potions and then what?

Why should it follow the same pattern that VDSA had? I mean, I know a person that quit over VDSA traits on Master weapons and several that never got the weapon the wanted, try after try, and I don't even mean the right item with the wrong trait - I mean they didn't get the weapon period.

I think the same logic that makes an argument for BOE can be applied to all gear.

Ill be buying the orsinium DLC and Keep better records of the numbers i get try to see if they can be tied to the item/set possibilities that can be dropped in each instance. As it stands now, in the current IC update, we could always guarantee a set piece or 2 would ALWAYS be in the dungeon. For instance, We know that Molag Keena can drop set hats for example, but we never even attempted to tie the numbers to the set that would drop or the attribute it could have. We were not sure it could even be done. When i rewrote my hard drive 2 weeks ago, i didnt even bother trying to save a copy of my number records. What we could tell you for certain just off of 35,36 and 38 is, that if you went all the way through the dungeon, and did not get a single piece of set loot from anything, then Molag Keena was DEFINITELY 100% going to drop a set piece, be it her hat or any of the other pieces she can drop. Game is currently on loot servers i 100% Guarantee it. I Promise.

kuscoe

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

MrBeatDown

kuscoe wrote: »

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

Let me help you out, Do your writs and look for a 36 in craglorn before you turn them in.

Always get glass motif frags, tempers, recipes, etc etc. It takes alot of time searching for the magic numbers because of load screens, but its better than getting stiffed for your effort.

Nifty2g

kuscoe wrote: »

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

Thats why I vote for BoP with a balance of BoE
Be able to grind for the great gear while being able to sell other gear that is useful, pretty much how it used to be. Now it's just a fest of BoP and nothing to sell at all. Grinding mindless zombies for some items to drop is not exactly what I would call productive Zenimax.

Iluvrien

If we are retaining the B2P system (yuck) then it makes some sense for items available only in paid DLCs to be retained by the players who actually pay for access to the DLC.

That said, I don't think that this should exclusively be the case and there should be more a of balance to facilitate the in-game economy.

Hiero_Glyph

Iluvrien wrote: »

If we are retaining the B2P system (yuck) then it makes some sense for items available only in paid DLCs to be retained by the players who actually pay for access to the DLC.

That said, I don't think that this should exclusively be the case and there should be more a of balance to facilitate the in-game economy.

This is the problem though as very few previous BoE items were scaled up to v16. Yes, IC had plenty but these were already behind a Telvar Stone grind wall which required the DLC anyway. Is ZOS really trying to gate all new sets behind paid DLC while also making all previous sets obsolete? I mean at this point players have gone out of their way to make v16 crafted sets optimal and the material alone costs hundreds of thousands of gold to even craft a set without purchasing the DLC. It really is a huge mess and anyone who purchased the base game but not the DLC is getting utterly screwed by ZOS since v16 items are few and far between. Hopefully Orsinium causes v16 mats to drop in price but even that is only a slight reprieve considering all the new, non-crafted sets are BoP. Is ZOS really trying to kill their own game for the sake of selling DLC?

Iluvrien

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Is ZOS really trying to kill their own game for the sake of selling DLC?

In my opinion? Yes.

I said it made sense (logical, not economic or moral) to do this in a B2P model. I didn't say that I agree with the tactic. I don't. I consider it abhorrent.

... but having watched ZOS systematically devalue crafting and crafters, I have come to the conclusion that this is exactly the kind of thing they might do.

AFrostWolf

Lack of competition in the markets. Needs an Auction House.

firstdecan

BoP is perfect, more sets should be this way. It adds to ZoS ongoing theme of making the game a tedious grind and forcing players into content they do not want to play.

Personofsecrets

MrBeatDown wrote: »

kuscoe wrote: »

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

Let me help you out, Do your writs and look for a 36 in craglorn before you turn them in.

Always get glass motif frags, tempers, recipes, etc etc. It takes alot of time searching for the magic numbers because of load screens, but its better than getting stiffed for your effort.

What does the number 36 have to do with writ container seeding @MrBeatDown ?

Personofsecrets

@Nifty2g , I agree that tradition is an important thing to have, but do you think there could be more advantages than disadvantages if the weapons were to be BOE and the armor where to be BOP?

MrBeatDown

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

kuscoe wrote: »

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

Let me help you out, Do your writs and look for a 36 in craglorn before you turn them in.

Always get glass motif frags, tempers, recipes, etc etc. It takes alot of time searching for the magic numbers because of load screens, but its better than getting stiffed for your effort.

What does the number 36 have to do with writ container seeding @MrBeatDown ?

36 is the hottest number in eso right now for all looting instances. I dont really understand how it works in deshaan for chest/shoulders or craglorn when turning in your writs, but its always the hottest number for loot PERIOD. CURRENT until tomarrows update. Its very hard to get 36 in deshaan or craglorn, but much easier to get it for lets say V WGT (because i have a core group and with 4 people searching for it before we send invites makes it 100000000000000000000000x faster when dealing with load screens). Loot from turning in writs on a 36 gave me a tempering alloy, a glass motif fragment, a recipe and the normal stuff you get. The more writs you turn in the higher probability you have to get max reward from the container if you turn them in on a 36. I have only been able to turn in on a 36 one time though, because, like i said, LOAD SCREENS. Could take you a few hours to land on magic numbers when Solo searching for the Hottest loot numbers. Thats why i prefer core group when doing all dungeons and group content. We all know the deal and we dont run trash instances. Thank god for TS.

Nifty2g

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Nifty2g , I agree that tradition is an important thing to have, but do you think there could be more advantages than disadvantages if the weapons were to be BOE and the armor where to be BOP?

There needs to be some level of achievement for the *hardcore* player and i suppose that should be master weapons but that's just what i think

Personofsecrets

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

kuscoe wrote: »

An unpopular opinion but I prefer working for gear I don't think they should be buffing drop rates in the dungeons

That said maybe I should have a change of heart because as a primarily PvE player I am broke with nothing to sell most of the time

Let me help you out, Do your writs and look for a 36 in craglorn before you turn them in.

Always get glass motif frags, tempers, recipes, etc etc. It takes alot of time searching for the magic numbers because of load screens, but its better than getting stiffed for your effort.

What does the number 36 have to do with writ container seeding @MrBeatDown ?

36 is the hottest number in eso right now for all looting instances. I dont really understand how it works in deshaan for chest/shoulders or craglorn when turning in your writs, but its always the hottest number for loot PERIOD. CURRENT until tomarrows update. Its very hard to get 36 in deshaan or craglorn, but much easier to get it for lets say V WGT (because i have a core group and with 4 people searching for it before we send invites makes it 100000000000000000000000x faster when dealing with load screens). Loot from turning in writs on a 36 gave me a tempering alloy, a glass motif fragment, a recipe and the normal stuff you get. The more writs you turn in the higher probability you have to get max reward from the container if you turn them in on a 36. I have only been able to turn in on a 36 one time though, because, like i said, LOAD SCREENS. Could take you a few hours to land on magic numbers when Solo searching for the Hottest loot numbers. Thats why i prefer core group when doing all dungeons and group content. We all know the deal and we dont run trash instances. Thank god for TS.

What is the units that comes with the number 36? 36 turn ins? 36 seconds of the minute have passed? 36 minutes of the hour have passed? I know some games that are based on time such as that, but am not sure about seeding in ESO. If I was sure of it, then it would be extremely lucrative for let's say dolmen loot or making the new Maelstrom sets not a pain in the behind.

Personofsecrets

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Nifty2g , I agree that tradition is an important thing to have, but do you think there could be more advantages than disadvantages if the weapons were to be BOE and the armor where to be BOP?

There needs to be some level of achievement for the *hardcore* player and i suppose that should be master weapons but that's just what i think

I can agree with that. I hope to get others to agree that whatever that level of achievement is, once a player has bypassed that level, then they should have, if not a guaranteed chance, then a very good chance of getting what they want.

You did Darkshade 100 times? Okay, here is your good trait and armor type helmet. Wow, you beat Maelstrom 5 times? Here have on of the items that you are most after. The embers and shackle token system is a start, but has a bit of a ways to go.

Nifty2g

Woah I really didn't expect to see that many people vote on the poll. I hope you guys keep voting to make Zenimax aware of the issue.
@ZOS_GinaBruno

Zilch

All gear should be BoE, unless they implement a better loot system, where luck isn't the biggest factor.

kuscoe

Ah one point I did forget to make

Skill diversity in gear with the new dungeons the better players had the gear and the worse ones didn't

Now that all went away when the Trap (shame on you ZOS) got popular but I like the idea I guess it will comeback with arena

Nifty2g

kuscoe wrote: »

Ah one point I did forget to make

Skill diversity in gear with the new dungeons the better players had the gear and the worse ones didn't

Now that all went away when the Trap (shame on you ZOS) got popular but I like the idea I guess it will comeback with arena

I agree that's the same with everything, it used to be the vdsa title

Jura23

I feel sorry for all who feel the need to grind their sets in PvE. I just ignore all dropped sets like they never existed. I got lucky once and found one monster set, which is cool, but I'm not gonna grind others even if they are better.

kuscoe

Jura23 wrote: »

I feel sorry for all who feel the need to grind their sets in PvE. I just ignore all dropped sets like they never existed. I got lucky once and found one monster set, which is cool, but I'm not gonna grind others even if they are better.

well

when I play I am playing to improve myself be that through gear or what have you so typically I need to get atleast some of the items in these dungeon in order to improve my build and damage

hell even to do better in pvp I need a bloodspawn hat for my stam templar

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I don't see why BOP on Maelstrom weapons is obvious.

So from this response I assume you would be happier if you could just outwright buy your maelstrom drops?

well then I see no problem with putting them in the crown store

Gear should be earned not bought take v16 crafted even unless you are rolling around in masses of gold (earned) you need to grind mats and work you way towards gear

Turelus

For me BoP is an out dated mechanic which only serves to force people into content they're not interested in (PvP players forced to run trials/dungeons) for the limited reward of making people farm for items, and thus "play longer".

I would much rather a system where we can open trade of all items but made everything BoE (as it currently is). Players could play the content they enjoy, or farm items in demand for gold and players who are not interested in that would have something to spend gold on. Let supply/demand set the prices for us.