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Battle Spirit / Shield Absorbs

Molag_Crow
Molag_Crow
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Battle Spirit (PvP Perma-buff)
    You gain the following bonuses:
  • Increases Health by 5000
  • Reduce damage taken by 50%
  • Reduce healing received and damage shield strength by 50%
  • Increase range of abilities with greater than 28m rang by 8m in Cyrodiil.

Who else thinks that 50% is a little too harsh on 'damage shield strength'? considering that we now have a set like Shieldbreaker which is designed to obliterate shields?

I think it should be at least 20%, not 50%.

Dragonknights Absorb shields, Healing Ward (Resto Staff) and Templar's for example, have been hit HARD by this. Templar's hardly use Blazing Shield/Radiant Ward anymore because since it scales off of 15% of our Max Health (without CP points in Bastion) and with 50% less damage shield strength, we're basically only able to absorb a poke with a rubber spoon, and nothing more, unless one stacks over 40k health for it to even be effective, I don't know, do the math, but you get what I mean.

I get that Sorcerers shields were too strong, but we now have a counter; Shieldbreaker, so..... maybe it's time to reconsider, @ZOS? :p
Edited by Molag_Crow on October 30, 2015 6:47AM
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  • Molag_Crow
    Molag_Crow
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    I think I should have made this in the PvP forum section, sorry. If you're not busy, please feel free to move this @ZOS_Alex :p
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  • Kuroinu
    Kuroinu
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    The entire buff makes me feel dirty when I enter a PvP area.
  • Dagoth_Rac
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    No. You would essentially force every non-Sorcerer into using Shield Breaker in PvP. Heck, even Sorcerers would have to wear it so they could take on all the other Sorcerers. I want more viable gear options in the game, not less!
  • Molag_Crow
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    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    No. You would essentially force every non-Sorcerer into using Shield Breaker in PvP. Heck, even Sorcerers would have to wear it so they could take on all the other Sorcerers. I want more viable gear options in the game, not less!

    Sorc shields are still strong. I'm curious, have you been in Cyrodiil lately?

    And 20% is a rough number, even if they made it "35% or 40%" It'd be a lot better than 50%!

    I still wouldn't use shieldbreaker by the way, I'm a Magicka Templar.
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  • Molag_Crow
    Molag_Crow
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    The entire buff makes me feel dirty when I enter a PvP area.

    Same... like when I spent a few hours outside of Cyrodiil for once, I was doing a few Craglorn Delves and I actually felt overpowered because I weren't used to having such strong heals and damage, etc ^^
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  • SleepyTroll
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    When someone hits me with sheild breaker while have a freshly applied shield up I wish my sheild was smaller not larger. But now if I could remove my shield some how that would be cool.

    But for real there is alot of things that need to be thought about with battle spirit. Like the healing, look at dragons blood it got *** hard, but on my Templar I barely knowtice the heals being nerfed(9k breath of life is plenty). The other class shield like you said took a huge hit but sorc shield still seems fine to me. The 50% damage reduction, effected seige as well (or am I wrong?) And now really the only deaths that come from seige is stacked oil when no one uses purge.
  • Molag_Crow
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    When someone hits me with sheild breaker while have a freshly applied shield up I wish my sheild was smaller not larger. But now if I could remove my shield some how that would be cool.

    But for real there is alot of things that need to be thought about with battle spirit. Like the healing, look at dragons blood it got *** hard, but on my Templar I barely knowtice the heals being nerfed(9k breath of life is plenty). The other class shield like you said took a huge hit but sorc shield still seems fine to me. The 50% damage reduction, effected seige as well (or am I wrong?) And now really the only deaths that come from seige is stacked oil when no one uses purge.

    Yeah, multiple oil pots to even do any damage! o.O and Templar heals are still very strong indeed, but other classes' heals are very weak, yeah :\
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  • Bashev
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    I dont think that this is a good idea. If they reduce to 20 then they have to nerf sors shield. It will be better if they buff Templar sand Dks skills rather than nerf Sorcs
    Because I can!
  • Tryxus
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    Personally, I think the Battle Spirit is a bit... underdevelopped.

    Battle Spirit is supposed to be the bridge between PvE and PvP to not only balance out the classes but also to tweak the gameplay to make things more fair for the players.

    I actually made a few suggestion regarding that here. Let me know what you think :p
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  • Molag_Crow
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    Bashev wrote: »
    I dont think that this is a good idea. If they reduce to 20 then they have to nerf sors shield. It will be better if they buff Templar sand Dks skills rather than nerf Sorcs

    I was thinking that too, but it may cause more trouble than its worth, I don't know.. there's already plenty of bugs from when they're tried to fix/change something else so I thought an easy solution would be just to put the absorbs down to like 30% or 40%, I guess...
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  • mtwiggz
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    Issue here is that they nerfed shields in the first place. Instead of digging down and realizing the real issue, which was Sorcs shields, they took the easy way out again. Which now may cause any future changes to damage or shields OP or UP.

    Realistically all they needed to do was decrease the shield value of Hardened Ward a bit. Now that they decreased shields and decreased damage, if they increase shields again people will complain that they need to increase damage too. Then we'll be in the same boat we are now, the shield values will just be higher. In which that change will hurt all players not using shields. It's a steep slope - ZoS forgot their climbing gear.
  • Molag_Crow
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    mtwiggz wrote: »
    Issue here is that they nerfed shields in the first place. Instead of digging down and realizing the real issue, which was Sorcs shields, they took the easy way out again. Which now may cause any future changes to damage or shields OP or UP.

    Realistically all they needed to do was decrease the shield value of Hardened Ward a bit. Now that they decreased shields and decreased damage, if they increase shields again people will complain that they need to increase damage too. Then we'll be in the same boat we are now, the shield values will just be higher. In which that change will hurt all players not using shields. It's a steep slope - ZoS forgot their climbing gear.

    You're right. They should have just tackled the problem individually, instead of causing a problem collectively... :disappointed:
    I personally feel that damage is already too high right now, anyway, so if they decreased the 'Reduced Shield Absorb' from 50% to 20%/30% or at least 40%, then it wouldn't really have a massive effect, since before the 50% came out of nowhere, people were still quite vulnerable to dying no matter how much they stacked their shields.

    Now that we have Shieldbreaker, if somebody is -so- concerned about bursting shields, they can equip Shieldbreaker. Job done!
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  • Kammakazi
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    Mist Form
  • Molag_Crow
    Molag_Crow
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    Kammakazi wrote: »
    Mist Form
    oh-no-you-didnt-20.gif
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  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
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    If you are taking 50% less damage your shields are still functioning at 100% of their efficiency at a 50% redux.

    Shield nerf is a myth.
    Edited by Cathexis on October 30, 2015 7:21PM
    Praise Malacath.
  • Waffennacht
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    Cathexis wrote: »
    If you are taking 50% less damage your shields are still functioning at 100% of their efficiency at a 50% redux.

    Shield nerf is a myth.

    This only logical with 50% damage nerf. Yes, then, the efficiency remains exactly the same.

    Remember the shield nerf was NOT in response to strong shields or sorcs. It IS in response to lowering damage 50% in order to elongate battles.

    They wanted longer battles so they nerfed damage. A nerf to damage but not to shields (and regens for that matter) then you would have made shield users overly stupid strong, so they had to nerf the rest.

    Shieldbreaker is in response to Shield stacking, the PvP nerfs are in response to battles being too short. The two are suppose to be unrelated
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  • Molag_Crow
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    Cathexis wrote: »
    If you are taking 50% less damage your shields are still functioning at 100% of their efficiency at a 50% redux.

    Shield nerf is a myth.

    False. Go and play a Templar in Cyrodiil for a week or two, while using Blazing Shield/Radiant Ward.

    I think it's safe to assume that you don't PvP, since 50% less damage taken is pretty much a myth now that the average player has access to stats like 4k+ weapon damage, 3k spell damage, huge amounts of main resource pools etc etc
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  • Molag_Crow
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    Cathexis wrote: »
    If you are taking 50% less damage your shields are still functioning at 100% of their efficiency at a 50% redux.

    Shield nerf is a myth.

    This only logical with 50% damage nerf. Yes, then, the efficiency remains exactly the same.

    Remember the shield nerf was NOT in response to strong shields or sorcs. It IS in response to lowering damage 50% in order to elongate battles.

    They wanted longer battles so they nerfed damage. A nerf to damage but not to shields (and regens for that matter) then you would have made shield users overly stupid strong, so they had to nerf the rest.

    Shieldbreaker is in response to Shield stacking, the PvP nerfs are in response to battles being too short. The two are suppose to be unrelated

    Well that logic is pretty much thrown out of the window due to Templar's needing 35k health for a 5-6k absorb shield (blazing shield - depending on CP) yet a single spell, like my Dark Flare, hits for 10k+ non crit.

    :lol:
    Edited by Molag_Crow on October 30, 2015 9:19PM
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  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Despite my fear of starting any kind of war, I respectfully disagree about the shield idea.

    What I am reading is that you attack hits for 10k + right? Well prior to patch wouldn't that same attack deal 20k + damage?

    And your old shield be for 12k? So its a ratio of 20k to 12k, which is the exact same ratio to 10k to 6k.

    Your statement that the general populace has changed and now deal more damage (not more prior to update but prior to them knowing how to) shouldn't have an effect on the damage ratio (aka efficiency)

    You can't use the ignorance of inexperienced players as a factor in the reduction math. These same players would have developed the damage with or without the update
    Edited by Waffennacht on October 30, 2015 9:43PM
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  • Alucardo
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    The entire buff makes me feel dirty when I enter a PvP area.
    It did me too, until I realised I could PvP from level 10 without getting smashed into the ground
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  • Alucardo
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    Kammakazi wrote: »
    Mist Form
    Nobody cares
    Have a nice day :)
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  • Molag_Crow
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    Despite my fear of starting any kind of war, I respectfully disagree about the shield idea.

    What I am reading is that you attack hits for 10k + right? Well prior to patch wouldn't that same attack deal 20k + damage?

    And your old shield be for 12k? So its a ratio of 20k to 12k, which is the exact same ratio to 10k to 6k.

    Your statement that the general populace has changed and now deal more damage (not more prior to update but prior to them knowing how to)

    You can't use the ignorance of inexperienced players as a factor in the reduction math. These same players would have developed the damage with or without the update

    Actually, my bad.. the tooltip says 10k, but of course that won't hit 10k+ since we have spell resistance, right? but still, 6k damage is absolutely easy to pull off, like look at a Nightblade's Ambush, crystal frags and snipe to name a few, for example ^^ they pretty much always hit 5k+

    So I'd either have to go for a tank build focused on max health for a little shield absorb, and lose most of my sustainability and useful resources, or I'd have to go with a completely different build and not even touch blazing shield, but it isn't just a Templar issue because of the battle spirit buff, it's also for DKs and anybody who wants to use Healing Ward, etc... but tbh, I know what you mean.
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  • Molag_Crow
    Molag_Crow
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    And I'm not on PC so I have no idea what numbers my shield could absorb before the patch, to what it absorbs now, and to what I hit? I don't know, we don't see damage numbers on console... not until we get scrolling battle text anyway, which has already been confirmed but the question of when, is unknown
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  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    My shield is still over 12K in Cyrodiil. That's 12K on a 1 second GCD with something that can't be crit and receives magickal defense bonuses from CP. There isn't an ability in the game that comes close to 1-shotting my shield and you want to buff it?

    I think Sorc shields are in a good place right now, if they are buffed we'll be back in 1.6 again.

    I'd be OK with Templars and DKs getting a slight (10-15%) buff to their shields but those classes should never be as reliant on damage shields as a sorc is because they have their own defensive options available to them.
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  • Molag_Crow
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    Ezareth wrote: »
    My shield is still over 12K in Cyrodiil. That's 12K on a 1 second GCD with something that can't be crit and receives magickal defense bonuses from CP. There isn't an ability in the game that comes close to 1-shotting my shield and you want to buff it?

    I think Sorc shields are in a good place right now, if they are buffed we'll be back in 1.6 again.

    I'd be OK with Templars and DKs getting a slight (10-15%) buff to their shields but those classes should never be as reliant on damage shields as a sorc is because they have their own defensive options available to them.

    I see, and yeah, you're right. I haven't been relying my shield though since I stopped using it, even with 30k Health it would only absorb a poke with a rubber spoon.

    I'm relying on heals, 1-2 second blocking and dodge-rolling now.
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  • eliisra
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    Problem with the nerf is that's it's not considering what a functional PvP build is.

    Templar + DK and Bone Shield users cant compensative the 50% nerf by stacking health, because than their builds becomes utter ***. You cant run around with 35k health in PvP and still maintain decent dmg or healing. It's baffling how clueless developers are at times.

    What the hell am I suppose to do with a 3.5k shield that only lasts 6 seconds on a templar lol?

    But sorc Ward, Barrier spam and Harness Magicka is still strong in PvP, even with the 50% nerf, since scaling of max magicka. My sorcs Hardened Ward is 11k...imagine that without a shield nerf, would be completely broken.

    Shields scaling of health needs to come with a lesser reduction.


  • Molag_Crow
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    eliisra wrote: »
    Problem with the nerf is that's it's not considering what a functional PvP build is.

    Templar + DK and Bone Shield users cant compensative the 50% nerf by stacking health, because than their builds becomes utter ***. You cant run around with 35k health in PvP and still maintain decent dmg or healing. It's baffling how clueless developers are at times.

    What the hell am I suppose to do with a 3.5k shield that only lasts 6 seconds on a templar lol?

    But sorc Ward, Barrier spam and Harness Magicka is still strong in PvP, even with the 50% nerf, since scaling of max magicka. My sorcs Hardened Ward is 11k...imagine that without a shield nerf, would be completely broken.

    Shields scaling of health needs to come with a lesser reduction.

    Exactly. It's not fair.... :pensive:
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  • zornyan
    zornyan
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    Despite my fear of starting any kind of war, I respectfully disagree about the shield idea.

    What I am reading is that you attack hits for 10k + right? Well prior to patch wouldn't that same attack deal 20k + damage?

    And your old shield be for 12k? So its a ratio of 20k to 12k, which is the exact same ratio to 10k to 6k.

    Your statement that the general populace has changed and now deal more damage (not more prior to update but prior to them knowing how to) shouldn't have an effect on the damage ratio (aka efficiency)

    You can't use the ignorance of inexperienced players as a factor in the reduction math. These same players would have developed the damage with or without the update

    They reduced damage from the last patch, but because they increased rank to vr16 and make much higher spell power/weapon power combos it is actually easier to hit just as hard as before.

    My own magicka templar is hitting 3900 spell damage, I've seen Mages with 5400 spell damage and 40k magicka.

    Hell I've seen a stamina build with a kena proc hit nearly 6k weapon damage

    I've personally been hit by a 16k crystal frags, and 12k snipes. My own dark flare tooltip is around 13k and my stamina build wrecking blow tooltip is at 14k, that's not including crits obviously.
  • Baconlad
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    A BUFF IN PVE TO TEMPLAR SHIELDS IS NOT THE ANSWER. Sorcs need to be brought down with theirs so the battle spirit "nerf" can be lessened. Or make a morph of templar shield do the same thing blazing shield does but one base off of magicka OR stamina (whatever higher) and one base off of health. I don't know...somthing needs to be done I don't under stand the battle spirit in the first place, nerf damage, nerf healing and shield, and give health? Wtf I'd rather they just take out all of battle spirit. *** fix in the first place
  • Cinnamon_Spider
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    I play both sorcerer and templar in pvp and IMO most of the shields are in a good place. I'm using drink right now, so my hardened ward is 9k and I'm able to survive nearly everything but lag. My templar has decent healing even if my blazing shield is much smaller.
    Healing ward still seems to be a bit too strong, at least against some builds.
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