Are Stamina Sorcs For Real?

Lava_Croft

The goal is to get everyone to the use same 1(2) skill(s). This way poor Wrobel has an easier time balancing the game.

HonourXL

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Excuse me if I'm mistaken here, but what in the actual oblivion is going on?

A Sorcerer basically flying around the battlefield spamming WRECKING BLOW!?????

Has PvP hit an all time low or something? is this the great depression in Cyrodiil?

We've got Stamina DK's who run around with Wrecking Blow spam, Nightblades who run around with Wrecking Blow spam and now SORCERERS who're running around spamming Wrecking Blow.

I came from WoW, where it actually took skill to PvP. You actually had to think carefully when it came high rated Arena, RBGs etc. No offence, but PvP in this game is absolutely braindead when you think about it.

Imagine if you were involved in a gaming company in the PvP department, and they told you "Right, we're going to give Stamina Users an ability that hits like a truck, completely knocks them back, takes a second to cast, has a pretty decent range, costs nothing AND hits even harder on the second swing." I'd personally think wait, what? so you're putting a load of class skills in the game but instead of offering diversity, like a Stamina morph of a Magicka ability for example, you'd rather just put the 'Godmode 1 Button Win' in for every class that uses Stamina?

well its OP as hell and sometimes you not even get CC immunity. and keep getting knock down
entire fight BUT its easy to counter WB . it takes skill to do it. You just have to be quick on your decision.

Flaminir

Groggolo wrote: »

I played a stamina sorc in the last months, and now I am really bored out of it.

It is viable mainly thanks WB and ST, leveraging some good damage (and armor) buffs that sorc active and passive skills can promote, and high mobility thanks to streak and its morph. That's it.

Yet there are no real synergies or interesting combination between sorc skills and weapon skills, especially compared to other classes.

Definitely there are good players showing off how the stamina sorc can be highly competitive, but that's due mainly to player skills rather than the actual build.
Those players playing any other class would do probably even better.

I Agree....

But where Stam Sorcs shine is in making the weapon skill lines stronger and providing a bit of utility that they lack. They don't have stamina morphs to replace the damaging abilities in the weapon lines, but do make the weapon skills stronger.

EG: 2% weapon power passive per sorc ability.... 20% stam regen..... an extra 8% max stamina... etc.

Combine this with the extra mobility from streak/boundless storm, and the extra heals from surge.... it takes the cookie cutter stam weapon skill build and makes it stronger.

Though therein lies the real problem as the OP sets out.... that everybody is using the same stuff like Wrecking Blow.

a.skelton92

Docmandu wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

I came from WoW, where it actually took skill to PvP. You actually had to think carefully when it came high rated Arena, RBGs etc.

Really?! Thought that game was more Gear vs Gear than anything else.

Which to be honest, with undaunted, master weapons and VR16 crafting cost, this game is also heading to.

I think WoW too took more skill. Their is only so much skill that comes into play when there are only 5 skills to use. In fact, this game is MORE gear based as spamming definitely takes no skill. So, the only conclusion that you can come too is that 'x' beat 'x' because his gear made 'x spell' stronger.

Scyantific

Pffft, i was using wrecking blow before it was cool (pre-1.6)

Septimus_Magna

Kronuxx wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Yeah they are real. I wish there was such a thing as dual spec in this game because then I would totally spec stam as it has nice advantages right now.

Yeah, but I think It's a shame ... apparently at end game (max CP or something) Stamina deals 25% more damage than a Magicka user...

Oh I think it's a shame too. Or I might use a different word..

The sorc class was designed to be a ranged magicka DPS and kiting class. That's what I signed up for. The Zeni shift toward caving to the vocal minority is kinda gross. And when folks start hearing stuff like "stamina is better" (which I do think is true) they hop aboard real fast. :-[

Stam definitely isn't better lol. People have been spreading these rumors lately and I think its hilarious. Stuff like "Stam sorc is the class favourite" Haha def not class favourite is nightblade for sure.

If you watch the videos of FENG RUSH you can see him beating the emperor, who is magicka sorc, with his Orc stam sorc. He did get a little help from a sewer boss but it shows how viable stam sorcs are.

You do realize he's got over 550 cp right? Anybody with that decent amount of cp can hit like a truck. Doesn't matter if you're stam sorc, stam nb, stamplar, etc. You see sypher? He's a stam NB with over 300 cp and still hits like a truck. You want balance, you need to start with the cp distrubution along with aoe caps etc.

Yeah, sure CPs matter but the guy he fights probably has more than 300 CPs AND he is emperor on a magicka sorc. That means 100% increased resources so 40k health and probably close to 75-80k max magicka.

The kill is mainly caused by the sewer boss but the impressive thing is that he survives the emperors burst and how quickly he rips through almost 40k health plus massive shields.

Cathexis

k2blader wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Yeah they are real. I wish there was such a thing as dual spec in this game because then I would totally spec stam as it has nice advantages right now.

Yeah, but I think It's a shame ... apparently at end game (max CP or something) Stamina deals 25% more damage than a Magicka user...

Oh I think it's a shame too. Or I might use a different word..

The sorc class was designed to be a ranged magicka DPS and kiting class. That's what I signed up for. The Zeni shift toward caving to the vocal minority is kinda gross. And when folks start hearing stuff like "stamina is better" (which I do think is true) they hop aboard real fast. :-[

Stam definitely isn't better lol. People have been spreading these rumors lately and I think its hilarious. Stuff like "Stam sorc is the class favourite" Haha def not class favourite is nightblade for sure.

If you watch the videos of FENG RUSH you can see him beating the emperor, who is magicka sorc, with his Orc stam sorc. He did get a little help from a sewer boss but it shows how viable stam sorcs are.

Never watched any of his vids but I was curious. I would argue that the sewer boss basically killed the emp magicka sorc with Fengrush tagging for the KB. I think it's not so much that Fengrush is a stamina sorc but more that he's an expert player of the game who's made the build his specialty. Having over 550 CPs doesn't hurt either. What impressed me most about his vid was how well/effortlessly he moved and survived, which I think he himself said is the strength of that build.

Yeh 550+CP you can make anything work pretty well and he wasn't alone (both a boss and players)... Those points comes up a lot in the stam builds for sorcs.

Not to discredit Feng, he's def a good fighter.

dodgehopper_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

WB was already strong before IC patch, but was indirectly buffed hard due to the dodge and block nerf, you cant keep blocking or dodging it so someone who is spamming it is at an advantage over you. All you gotta do is slot WB and start spamming back and hope you win, this is the essence of pvp atm.

This is exactly the issue. Defense took a gigantic nosedive in this patch, which is why I personally abandoned playing the Tank role: There's no point. You're much better off being full dps or strong heals (if you want to support) in pvp. The Guard skill is a joke - I really can't understand what they were thinking when they made that skill, much less now in a world where just breathing sucks up stamina, or blocking stops all stamina regen. Guard might have made some sense if a player was able to block to enhance mitigation, but its costs were always too high, even without the IC block nerfs.

dodgehopper_ESO

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

it was a joke because iv been seeing it being bashed everywhere on forums

Man it's so terrible right now... I hate to sound like a whiner, I really do, but through the hours of PvPing, I keep running into Wrecking Blow spammers and I'm talking about the kind of Wrecking Blow spammers who hit you so hard and frequently, that you can't even react in time before you're dead.

I got hit for 12k, 8.6k and then 10k Wrecking Blow within a few seconds of trying to outheal it after I broke free from the first one. It's an absolute joke man, I even roll with sword & shield and block when I can, but these WB spammers get you at the worse times and finish you quickly, no questions asked.

Instead of wrecking Wrecking blow, they should deal with inequities between health magicka and stamina (or conversely remove the damage buffs from mag/stam). They need to bring back dodge roll and blocking, and probably rethink how these skills work to begin with (like putting them on a different bar altogether). The problem with Dodge/Block is that they did this champion system and added OP gear, throwing their initial math out the window. The Dodge & Block nerf were a horrible design choice made to deal with major design mistakes earlier.

dodgehopper_ESO

CrowsDescend wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Yeah they are real. I wish there was such a thing as dual spec in this game because then I would totally spec stam as it has nice advantages right now.

Yeah, but I think It's a shame ... apparently at end game (max CP or something) Stamina deals 25% more damage than a Magicka user...

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I spammed 1 time on a v 16 on a cliff and cheap shotted him off it and he died from fall damage

That's not bad, I do like the idea of Wrecking Blow. It was a good concept, you know.. to knock somebody off a wall/cliff etc with a massive swing, but I think it's gotten out of hand now with all these funky builds running around literally flailing their arms as they charge up their heroically, epic Wrecking Blow.

Magicka builds also enjoy significantly more mitigation abilities, from cc to shields to other defenses. I think that's always been the tradeoff in ZoS mind.

CyrusArya

PvP in this game does require skill, but based on your post history I don't expect you to know anything about that.

No offense, I just don't assign much weight to the opinions of a Forum QQ'er who cant counter a single skill. I PvP on various builds, and while I'm cautious around Wrecking Blow spammers, it never causes me any grief. So whats the difference between you and me?

Id be open to removing the empower buff from WB or even the CC all together if it means you'll shut up. But knowing your type, you'll move on to something else to cry about. Seriously, there is no need to start a new topic about this every single day. Just keep bumping your old nerf threads.

AshTal

I am sure it will be nerfed probably with the same speed as most fixes so 2016 or 2017. Then we can go back to having more than Stamina build wrecking blow and Stamina Night Blades.

DannyLV702

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I spammed 1 time on a v 16 on a cliff and cheap shotted him off it and he died from fall damage

That happened against me yesterday, but i didn't die, came back into the building and killed the guy lol. it was epic so i had to save the video since it was against a guy who is 2nd place on pvp leaderboards lol

dodgehopper_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

Groggolo wrote: »

I played a stamina sorc in the last months, and now I am really bored out of it.

It is viable mainly thanks WB and ST, leveraging some good damage (and armor) buffs that sorc active and passive skills can promote, and high mobility thanks to streak and its morph. That's it.

Yet there are no real synergies or interesting combination between sorc skills and weapon skills, especially compared to other classes.

Definitely there are good players showing off how the stamina sorc can be highly competitive, but that's due mainly to player skills rather than the actual build.
Those players playing any other class would do probably even better.

I Agree....

But where Stam Sorcs shine is in making the weapon skill lines stronger and providing a bit of utility that they lack. They don't have stamina morphs to replace the damaging abilities in the weapon lines, but do make the weapon skills stronger.

EG: 2% weapon power passive per sorc ability.... 20% stam regen..... an extra 8% max stamina... etc.

Combine this with the extra mobility from streak/boundless storm, and the extra heals from surge.... it takes the cookie cutter stam weapon skill build and makes it stronger.

Though therein lies the real problem as the OP sets out.... that everybody is using the same stuff like Wrecking Blow.

This is exactly the point. No class can stack weapon and spell damage, while also getting the most cost reduction in abilities, a huge boost to heavy attacks, a huge boost to max stamina, and the best regenerations in the game. The big question is how do people not see the power of Stamina Sorcs? The big hangup on Stamina Sorc build is that you have to be sure to stack enough Sorc class skills on your bar to get the full effect. To note they can easily get 20% Health Regen, 20% Stamina Regen, 10% magicka Regen, 15% Reduction on ultimate Cost, 5% Reduction on Magicka and Stamina costs. This outclasses a Stamplar in every way except that they do not get Biting Jabs. The STorc is a high damage, highly mobile melee platform form of death.

Alucardo

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

it was a joke because iv been seeing it being bashed everywhere on forums

Do you think there might be a good reason for that? Go on, I'll give you a minute to ponder..

Calboy

Groggolo wrote: »

Yet there are no real synergies or interesting combination between sorc skills and weapon skills, especially compared to other classes.

Magnum shot + crit rush + crit surge
Steel tornado + crit surge
Flurry + rune cage
Any dot + rune cage
Any dw skill + encase

Rikumaru

Wreaking Blow alone is kinda easy to counter. But when you face someone who WB spams while root spamming while also using shuffle it is slightly hard to counter. The skill needs to be interruptable period.

Alucardo

Rikumaru wrote: »

The skill needs to be interruptable period.

I'm not sure. Considering it has a long wind up, being able to break it with a quick bash might make it completely worthless

dodgehopper_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

The skill needs to be interruptable period.

I'm not sure. Considering it has a long wind up, being able to break it with a quick bash might make it completely worthless

I kind of wish that using light/heavy attacks were more meaningful in the game. It would be even better if we had some basic Skyrim-like combos we could use. In a way, I'd rather see a heavy attack be on par with wrecking blow, because there is a lot more risk to a heavy attack than there is with wrecking blow. This is just a thought that hit me while we're talking about WB and Bash. By the way, as long as they're not on cc cooldown you can still hit people with reverb bash which does a pretty good job of dealing with this problem. I personally think if they kill the damage of WB, they need to make up for it by speeding the attack up (not too much) and making it more about cc. They have to be careful how they treat WB, because I can remember a time when it was pretty awful.

Sarousse

I'm having so much fun spamming wrecking blows for 10k+ on my stam sorc while soaking tons of damage thanks to my plate armor and healing like mad with power surge.

Blame Zenimax for not giving sorcs a class skill stam morph for meleeing.

Meanwhile they decide to do it, I WILL JUST WRECK YOUR FACE WITH MY 2H LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW.

WillhelmBlack

I've got quite a few kills with mine as I've been playing him on/off since release but still haven't died to one in 1.6 or 1.7 though. This will change soon as Fengrush becomes more popular in Europe and people start copying his build I guess.

My Sorc uses DW and Clannfear, no WB, just use 2H for Rally.

Armenua

CrowsDescend wrote: »

I came from WoW, where it actually took skill to PvP....

Sorry, that just made me laugh

Molag_Crow

Armenua wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

I came from WoW, where it actually took skill to PvP....

Sorry, that just made me laugh

Why? I know it didn't take skill to actually PvP in random Battlegrounds, but I meant high rated Arena and Rated BGs, where you can't just stand there spamming 1 button like Wrecking Blow.

Molag_Crow

Sarousse wrote: »

I'm having so much fun spamming wrecking blows for 10k+ on my stam sorc while soaking tons of damage thanks to my plate armor and healing like mad with power surge.

Blame Zenimax for not giving sorcs a class skill stam morph for meleeing.

Meanwhile they decide to do it, I WILL JUST WRECK YOUR FACE WITH MY 2H LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW.

If that's how you roll then fair enough, I won't judge you... although I personally couldn't play that style, I'd feel dirty.

Uber_Lord

Been using WB since I started playing last year. Then I stopped for 10 months and I feel like it casts way faster then before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the penalty used to be a slow cast. I think the distance should be 1 meter and the animation should be slightly longer. Also dodge needs some buff. Why do I feel like pvp is more unbalanced than a year ago? Everything seems simplified and people are crying nerf this nerft that. I never a saw buff my class thread. Everyone's just crying to nerf X class that I can't kill they run away or I get killed.
What is this your first ever MMO? Rock paper scissors. You can't beat everyone with a single build. You need a team you know in a multiplayer game?

Merlin13KAGL

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Magicka builds also enjoy significantly more mitigation abilities, from cc to shields to other defenses. I think that's always been the tradeoff in ZoS mind.

@dodgehopper_ESO , and which CC to stam users not have access to again??

Mumyo

make it bashable again!

Sharakor

There's no skill in PvP ever since everyone got 30k HP and 50% damage reduction. PvP is just a "spam and see who runs out of HP first". Horrible decisions taken by ESO and its reflected on the population in Cyrodiil.

eligh0716

To the op, I totally agree. You know something is wrong when every class in the game is spamming wb... It defeats the purpose of a magicka sorc because the Stam ones are better right now. It makes no sense. I for one think it's weird to have a stamina based sorc so I stuck with magicka but after getting wb by Stam SORCS in pvp all day, I'm beginning to question myself... Something needs a fix here.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

CrowsDescend wrote: »

I came from WoW, where it actually took skill to PvP. You actually had to think carefully when it came high rated Arena, RBGs etc. No offence, but PvP in this game is absolutely braindead when you think about it.

This made me laugh out loud... for real. I know WoW had PvP, but this is not arenas... rated pvp.... BGs.... this is RvR. This pvp is a lot less single player skill based than it is large group based. That's just the nature of RvR games. This game will never be balanced for 1v1s. ESO has even stated they have no intention of bring in BGs or small scale PvP in the immediate future. It could be that this game's PvP is not for you.