Strongest Daedric Prince

Defilted

Sheogorath

The prince of Madness was not always the prince of madness. He was first Jigalag and he was so powerful that the other Daedric princes had to put there power together and turn him into the mad prince. The only reason he does not have his full power now is because he is divided and therefore his power is divided.

Shunravi

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

yup. My direct reference to tiber septim was because of dodgehopper's. your response is a bit encyclopedic and read like somewhat of a challenge because of that. Keep that in mind as i respond

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!

exclamation point... Did i say mer specifically? I mean, i did talk about daedra being 'not our ancestors'

by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.

yea, exactly who is a bit unclear. I did mention lorkhan in a different context in this thread but it relates if you read back a few posts

while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.

this is what im refering to, with Talos and Shor, in the text you quoted from me. Will come back to this.

auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

yea. the pact is weakened but the tower stands. My point is does the event of a Shezzarine happen spontaniously or are there precursors? What we were discussing was possibilities of how talos gains the mantle and the circomstances around it. The red diamond is said to be a drop of blood from the heart of lorkhan as it was shot across nirn.

I didnt reply as much as id hoped... Lets discuss further shal we? I would be good to clarify what you exactly meant in this reply, cause these parts of the lore, while having contradictions, are known.

Kammakazi

I choose Lorkhan

americansteel

Shunravi wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

yup. My direct reference to tiber septim was because of dodgehopper's. your response is a bit encyclopedic and read like somewhat of a challenge because of that. Keep that in mind as i respond

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!

exclamation point... Did i say mer specifically? I mean, i did talk about daedra being 'not our ancestors'

by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.

yea, exactly who is a bit unclear. I did mention lorkhan in a different context in this thread but it relates if you read back a few posts

while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.

this is what im refering to, with Talos and Shor, in the text you quoted from me. Will come back to this.

auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

yea. the pact is weakened but the tower stands. My point is does the event of a Shezzarine happen spontaniously or are there precursors? What we were discussing was possibilities of how talos gains the mantle and the circomstances around it. The red diamond is said to be a drop of blood from the heart of lorkhan as it was shot across nirn.

I didnt reply as much as id hoped... Lets discuss further shal we? I would be good to clarify what you exactly meant in this reply, cause these parts of the lore, while having contradictions, are known.

talos did not mantle anything of a god, it is said talos has no known birth place some say he is a Breton others say he is a nord, I cant see how a shezarrine can be a Breton when Bretons are half mer half men. I cant see that at all.
the shezarrines manifest or form out of nothingness as a curse from the divines to walk creatia for many a era (era=time) time is akatosh, as scrolls foretell a hero will emerge to save creatia from evil.
I don't like wikia it seems every week something has changed on that site.

dodgehopper_ESO

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

yup. My direct reference to tiber septim was because of dodgehopper's. your response is a bit encyclopedic and read like somewhat of a challenge because of that. Keep that in mind as i respond

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!

exclamation point... Did i say mer specifically? I mean, i did talk about daedra being 'not our ancestors'

by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.

yea, exactly who is a bit unclear. I did mention lorkhan in a different context in this thread but it relates if you read back a few posts

while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.

this is what im refering to, with Talos and Shor, in the text you quoted from me. Will come back to this.

auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

yea. the pact is weakened but the tower stands. My point is does the event of a Shezzarine happen spontaniously or are there precursors? What we were discussing was possibilities of how talos gains the mantle and the circomstances around it. The red diamond is said to be a drop of blood from the heart of lorkhan as it was shot across nirn.

I didnt reply as much as id hoped... Lets discuss further shal we? I would be good to clarify what you exactly meant in this reply, cause these parts of the lore, while having contradictions, are known.

talos did not mantle anything of a god, it is said talos has no known birth place some say he is a Breton others say he is a nord, I cant see how a shezarrine can be a Breton when Bretons are half mer half men. I cant see that at all.
the shezarrines manifest or form out of nothingness as a curse from the divines to walk creatia for many a era (era=time) time is akatosh, as scrolls foretell a hero will emerge to save creatia from evil.
I don't like wikia it seems every week something has changed on that site.

Bretons are definitely human. Calling them otherwise is like saying Bosmer are not elves. Its true Bretons have a little Direnni heritage but that doesn't make them half elves. It makes them more like men with a little mer in them to spice them up a bit. Conversely, Bosmer are treated by Altmer as a mongrel race precisely because they mixed with the Cyro-Imperial people a long time ago. This also explains their more Nedic skin color. Bear in mind also that the Dragonborn can be other races (otherwise why can you be any race you like in Skyrim). I'm fairly certain the dragon-tiger of Akavir is essentially a wierd dragonborn Khajiit. I also reckon that Nords (and humans in general) in Tamriel have a closer connection to Lorkhan/Shor and from an odds perspective it is probably more likely that they would become a Dragonborn/Miraak/Talos/Reman/Alessia type of person.

Rodvic

Hermaeus Mora

As someone who's favorite Prince is Sheogorath, he is not the strongest Daedric Prince at all guys. If this were a poll on which one is the most cunning however, Uncle Sheo would win by a landslide.

And for those of you picking Sheo because he was once Jyggalag, that's not the way it works. As Sheogorath, his power was divided, which means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag. After the Hero of Kvatch took up the mantle, Sheogorath and Jyggalag became two seperate Princes essentially which also means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag.

BuggeX wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Molag Bal is beaten by a weak amulet, why should he be the strongest daedra?
Same goes for Dagon, well he was beaten by Akatosh reincarnation in Oblivion.
Mora would be the inteligent under them, but does not rly have any power outsite of his world.

Sheo is right now Jygallag, and without a gray march he doesnt have is power either.
But still, sheo has wabbajack

Weak amulet? That amulet contains the power of Akatosh, the strongest of the Divines. Its power would probably beat any Prince.

I know that the amulet of kings contains the power of akatosh, but still both times we saw the amulet in Action a typical mortal used it and beaten the crap out of molag bal and dagon.

If we're going by that then we might as well just say all the Daedric Princes are pathetic and weak considering that every time the power of the amulet was used on a Daedric Prince they got beaten into the ground.

dodgehopper_ESO

Kammakazi wrote: »

I choose Lorkhan

I don't think Lorkhan is actually a Daedra though since he actually is part of the creation of Nirn.

Shunravi

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

yup. My direct reference to tiber septim was because of dodgehopper's. your response is a bit encyclopedic and read like somewhat of a challenge because of that. Keep that in mind as i respond

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!

exclamation point... Did i say mer specifically? I mean, i did talk about daedra being 'not our ancestors'

by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.

yea, exactly who is a bit unclear. I did mention lorkhan in a different context in this thread but it relates if you read back a few posts

while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.

this is what im refering to, with Talos and Shor, in the text you quoted from me. Will come back to this.

auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

yea. the pact is weakened but the tower stands. My point is does the event of a Shezzarine happen spontaniously or are there precursors? What we were discussing was possibilities of how talos gains the mantle and the circomstances around it. The red diamond is said to be a drop of blood from the heart of lorkhan as it was shot across nirn.

I didnt reply as much as id hoped... Lets discuss further shal we? I would be good to clarify what you exactly meant in this reply, cause these parts of the lore, while having contradictions, are known.

still finding it a bit confusing to read you but I will reply my best.

talos did not mantle anything of a god

Hmmm...

talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body.

Kay...
Is this contradictory to what I've said?

it is said talos has no known birth place

its disputed. So is it possible he's a soul shriven? Just a theory...

some say he is a Breton others say he is a nord, I cant see how a shezarrine can be a Breton when Bretons are half mer half men. I cant see that at all.

alrighty?

the shezarrines manifest or form out of nothingness as a curse from the divines to walk creatia for many a era

such as put together from pieces of something? forming out of nothingness is vague enough to be anything. So what do you think of it in relation to that little theory up there?

(era=time) time is akatosh, as scrolls foretell a hero will emerge to save creatia from evil.

granted and irrelavent...

I don't like wikia it seems every week something has changed on that site.

Not sure how this is relavent, but use UESP and the Imperial Library. The wikia is only relavent because it floats to the top of Google.

Shunravi

Rodvic wrote: »

As someone who's favorite Prince is Sheogorath, he is not the strongest Daedric Prince at all guys. If this were a poll on which one is the most cunning however, Uncle Sheo would win by a landslide.

That depends on how you define power. Also why I haven't voted despite my arguments btw.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Molag Bal is beaten by a weak amulet, why should he be the strongest daedra?
Same goes for Dagon, well he was beaten by Akatosh reincarnation in Oblivion.
Mora would be the inteligent under them, but does not rly have any power outsite of his world.

Sheo is right now Jygallag, and without a gray march he doesnt have is power either.
But still, sheo has wabbajack

Weak amulet? That amulet contains the power of Akatosh, the strongest of the Divines. Its power would probably beat any Prince.

I know that the amulet of kings contains the power of akatosh, but still both times we saw the amulet in Action a typical mortal used it and beaten the crap out of molag bal and dagon.

Because the vestige was infused with the power of Akatosh and Martin Septim literally transformed into Akatosh' avatar.

this will explain the fight with dagon, and wath about molag bal? was beaten by a simply human without a Soul because he use a ammulet? even if a other mortal has to be secrificed to work. but this should be enought power to beat up a daedric prince?

Its the same situation really BuggeX. I think the only difference between Martin and the Vestige, is that the Vestige is part daedra and part aedra. Becoming a Vestige has converted the character into what eventually sums up as a really flimsy daedra. Reinfusing with the akatosh's blessing (The skyshards) makes you into something altogether different and substantially more powerful. Our characters are then blessed/empowered by one of the most powerful relics in Tamriel (The Amulet of Kings) and that's how you take on Molag Bal. Its the same reason that tapping the heart of Lorkhan gave Dagoth Ur / The Tribunal divine-like qualities. I'd say the 4 most important 'divine' relics in all of Tamriel are the Amulet of Kings, The Heart of Lorkhan, The Eye of Magnus, and the Towers.

What interests me about the Vestige thing, is how they will explain what becomes of the Vestiges in future series, if they ever do. What happened to these hero(es)?

In my own interpretation if things, the vestige became so by becoming 'unmoored from the mundus' (see the lore book on how wayshrines work) i immagine that eventually the vestige simply evaporates out of mundus similar to how daedra cannot stay permanently.

I agree, but also the infusions from the skyshards moor him back. It does explain why the Vestige can go to the far shores, and then come back though. I have no other way of looking at it beyond the Vestige is a demigod like the dragonborn or the nerevarine, and just doesn't follow normal rules. I suspect he goes where (s)he ultimately likes to go, whether its oblivion or aetherius, but that's just me.

The Nerevarine a Demigod? more like an incarnation of a mere mortal chimer, hardly a demigod and even at the end of the main quest you can deny even being Nerevar.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

Egonieser wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Hircine being the epitome of what it is to be a hunter would devise a way to take down any prey.

Hircine is the strongest imo as a result.

This is assuming it'd be the actual Princes and not shades right? Hircine's weakest shade was defeated before and it took all the Nerevarines might.

Hircine got defeated by Sheo and very shamefully so.

Sheos little birdy kicked the crap out of Hircines biggest, baddest monstrosity a daedric prince could come up with... So, no..

Hircine got defeated by the Nerevarine much less Sheogorath.

Rodvic

Hermaeus Mora

Shunravi wrote: »

Rodvic wrote: »

As someone who's favorite Prince is Sheogorath, he is not the strongest Daedric Prince at all guys. If this were a poll on which one is the most cunning however, Uncle Sheo would win by a landslide.

That depends on how you define power. Also why I haven't voted despite my arguments btw.

Fair point.

dodgehopper_ESO

Rodvic wrote: »

As someone who's favorite Prince is Sheogorath, he is not the strongest Daedric Prince at all guys. If this were a poll on which one is the most cunning however, Uncle Sheo would win by a landslide.

And for those of you picking Sheo because he was once Jyggalag, that's not the way it works. As Sheogorath, his power was divided, which means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag. After the Hero of Kvatch took up the mantle, Sheogorath and Jyggalag became two seperate Princes essentially which also means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag.

BuggeX wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Molag Bal is beaten by a weak amulet, why should he be the strongest daedra?
Same goes for Dagon, well he was beaten by Akatosh reincarnation in Oblivion.
Mora would be the inteligent under them, but does not rly have any power outsite of his world.

Sheo is right now Jygallag, and without a gray march he doesnt have is power either.
But still, sheo has wabbajack

Weak amulet? That amulet contains the power of Akatosh, the strongest of the Divines. Its power would probably beat any Prince.

I know that the amulet of kings contains the power of akatosh, but still both times we saw the amulet in Action a typical mortal used it and beaten the crap out of molag bal and dagon.

If we're going by that then we might as well just say all the Daedric Princes are pathetic and weak considering that every time the power of the amulet was used on a Daedric Prince they got beaten into the ground.

I think the concept of the Greymarch muddies this a bit. Are you so sure that the Hero of Kvatch isn't merely an avatar of Sheogorath all along, in the same way that Talos is an avatar of Shor? I wouldn't be so quick to assume, particularly with Elder Scrolls Lore. I think the notion of Jyggalag and Sheogorath being completely divided is likely wrong. Jygallag/Sheogorath has either split or multiple personalities, and I suspect the Hero of Kvatch is one of them.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!
by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.
while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.
auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

Are you saying the 3 banners war lasted for several hundred years and even long after at least 2 of the 3 rulers have croaked from old age a hundred something years prior? Tiber Septim was born hundreds of years after ESO even takes place, Talos didn't end the war it ended centuries before he was even born.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

yup. My direct reference to tiber septim was because of dodgehopper's. your response is a bit encyclopedic and read like somewhat of a challenge because of that. Keep that in mind as i respond

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!

exclamation point... Did i say mer specifically? I mean, i did talk about daedra being 'not our ancestors'

by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.

yea, exactly who is a bit unclear. I did mention lorkhan in a different context in this thread but it relates if you read back a few posts

while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.

this is what im refering to, with Talos and Shor, in the text you quoted from me. Will come back to this.

auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

yea. the pact is weakened but the tower stands. My point is does the event of a Shezzarine happen spontaniously or are there precursors? What we were discussing was possibilities of how talos gains the mantle and the circomstances around it. The red diamond is said to be a drop of blood from the heart of lorkhan as it was shot across nirn.

I didnt reply as much as id hoped... Lets discuss further shal we? I would be good to clarify what you exactly meant in this reply, cause these parts of the lore, while having contradictions, are known.

talos did not mantle anything of a god, it is said talos has no known birth place some say he is a Breton others say he is a nord, I cant see how a shezarrine can be a Breton when Bretons are half mer half men. I cant see that at all.
the shezarrines manifest or form out of nothingness as a curse from the divines to walk creatia for many a era (era=time) time is akatosh, as scrolls foretell a hero will emerge to save creatia from evil.
I don't like wikia it seems every week something has changed on that site.

Talos is actually 3 people, Emperor Tiber Septim, Wulfhearth of Atmora and the Lich Zurin Arctus also known as Tiber Septim's Imperial Battlemage.

dodgehopper_ESO

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!
by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.
while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.
auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

Are you saying the 3 banners war lasted for several hundred years and even long after at least 2 of the 3 rulers have croaked from old age a hundred something years prior? Tiber Septim was born hundreds of years after ESO even takes place, Talos didn't end the war it ended centuries before he was even born.

I don't know about americansteel, but I was suggesting Tiber Septim might be the offspring of one of the vestiges in our storyline. It is purely conjecture though, and I admit it.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

Defilted wrote: »

The prince of Madness was not always the prince of madness. He was first Jigalag and he was so powerful that the other Daedric princes had to put there power together and turn him into the mad prince. The only reason he does not have his full power now is because he is divided and therefore his power is divided.

How do you define Power? Jyggalag's power (not Jigalag) lies in order not the power to destroy.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Hircine being the epitome of what it is to be a hunter would devise a way to take down any prey.

Hircine is the strongest imo as a result.

This is assuming it'd be the actual Princes and not shades right? Hircine's weakest shade was defeated before and it took all the Nerevarines might.

Yet a Vampire Lord which are created by Molag Bal are far more powerful then a werewolf which is a creation of Hircine.

Vrienda

Hermaeus Mora

Old Herma Mora himself.

Sorry Uncle Sheo, you're cool and all but your power on Nirn is fragile and your servents are pretty damn weak due to their insanity.

Herma Mora knows everything, perhaps too much. We should kill him and take his loot!

Also Molag and Hircine had their avatars slaughtered by mortals. So they're not even on the list. Especially Hircine who was defeated at his own game without the aid of divine power.

Oh and remember Sheogorath and Jyggalag are seperate entities now. Don't add the deeds of one to the other.

Otherwise Jyggalag would win since he seems to have everything Mora has in his sphere of influence plus some.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Molag Bal

Keepercraft wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Why Peryite is not on the list?????????

He is a dragon he MUST be the stonghest!
And imho the shielbreaker is the best artifact in the tes saga

Lore: "Peryite is considered one of the weakest of the Princes."

I wager the reason peryite is so weak as there are many beings walking around that can't even be effected by his sphere of influence...like Vampires and Werewolves who are immune to disease and those who can catch disease can simply cure it through potions, magic, Aedric blessings and so fourth.

SirAndy

BugCollector wrote: »

Which one is the strongest in your opinion? I left out the obviously weaker ones because of poll limitations.

Define "strongest" ???

nimander99

Sheogorath

Cheese!

Shunravi

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Rodvic wrote: »

As someone who's favorite Prince is Sheogorath, he is not the strongest Daedric Prince at all guys. If this were a poll on which one is the most cunning however, Uncle Sheo would win by a landslide.

And for those of you picking Sheo because he was once Jyggalag, that's not the way it works. As Sheogorath, his power was divided, which means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag. After the Hero of Kvatch took up the mantle, Sheogorath and Jyggalag became two seperate Princes essentially which also means he wouldn't be as strong as Jyggalag.

BuggeX wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Molag Bal is beaten by a weak amulet, why should he be the strongest daedra?
Same goes for Dagon, well he was beaten by Akatosh reincarnation in Oblivion.
Mora would be the inteligent under them, but does not rly have any power outsite of his world.

Sheo is right now Jygallag, and without a gray march he doesnt have is power either.
But still, sheo has wabbajack

Weak amulet? That amulet contains the power of Akatosh, the strongest of the Divines. Its power would probably beat any Prince.

I know that the amulet of kings contains the power of akatosh, but still both times we saw the amulet in Action a typical mortal used it and beaten the crap out of molag bal and dagon.

If we're going by that then we might as well just say all the Daedric Princes are pathetic and weak considering that every time the power of the amulet was used on a Daedric Prince they got beaten into the ground.

I think the concept of the Greymarch muddies this a bit. Are you so sure that the Hero of Kvatch isn't merely an avatar of Sheogorath all along, in the same way that Talos is an avatar of Shor? I wouldn't be so quick to assume, particularly with Elder Scrolls Lore. I think the notion of Jyggalag and Sheogorath being completely divided is likely wrong. Jygallag/Sheogorath has either split or multiple personalities, and I suspect the Hero of Kvatch is one of them.

the theory i always like to spew about the shivering isles dlc is that, no matter whats been said about it, is set in Sheogoraths realm. What better way to drive a hero insane than to make up a bunch of strange lore and convince him he became a god.

dodgehopper_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

the theory i always like to spew about the shivering isles dlc is that, no matter whats been said about it, is set in Sheogoraths realm. What better way to drive a hero insane than to make up a bunch of strange lore and convince him he became a god.

That's the great thing about it as well. If the Hero of Kvatch went insane, he might very well be living out the life of a Sheogorath in his own mind, as he frolicks about in Sheogorath's 2 realms. That in and of itself is an interesting idea. Then again maybe both ideas are true, and the Hero was also incorporated into Sheogorath. Sheo is so wierd its really hard to know, and I think that's what makes him trouble for the other Daedra. He's ultimately unknowable. Does he have an agenda? Which personality has an agenda, and do any of those agendas conflict? How would you know? The fun about Sheogorath in the lore is that he puts up more question marks than answers.

Uneed2Stop

Sheogorath

I like threads like this.

americansteel

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Actually, relighting the dragonfires may actually be what pushes the vestige out of mundus...

How so? Remember, the Vestige retains his vestigey goodness even after he gets his soul back. This is why I think he is a dragonborn, or something like it, by merit of the skyshards (Gift of akatosh) and use of the amulet of kings. Or does this just mean he finally gets the chance to cross over to the far shores/sovngarde again? I think it more likely that perhaps Tiber Septim is the result of this situation, either as children of one of these vestiges or being one himself?

Possibly. Its only a guess, but im not sure if regaining a soul that in itself was taken outside the mundus would tether it back in. Remember, the alessian pact essentialy pushed out antyhing that was not of the mundus and reinforced the barrier against incursion. If you get where im going, would you think that a possibility?

And again, that barrier is weak. We reclaimed our souls but did not relight the fires. I assume Tiber Septim does right? So, what if as you say, Tiber was made dragonborn by akatosh to end the crysis once and for all, a soul shriven who absorbed enought aedric energy to become dragonsouled, or born from that energy made mortal?

general talos ends the 3 banners war talos becomes tiber septim talos is a shezzarrine that is shor manifested in a flesh body. only dragonborn/dragonblood rulers can sit upon the ruby throne and light the dragon fires, shezzarrines are men not mer, men who are destined in the foretelling of the elder scrolls for victory over evil forces which seeks to harm mortals or creatia/nir.

shezzarr shor shoer the doom drum are names of lorkhan the amulet of kings is the most powerful soul gem in the aurbis and is the heart of lorkhan or a peice of it which was given to queen alessia who becomes a saint and hero of men not mer!
by historical records it was stated that akatosh or lorkhan or pelinal whitestrake another shezzarrine who gave the amulet to alessia.
while im on the subject of gods and mortals I will continue this, lorkhan and akatosh are the 2 same things they are opposites of each other time/duration. the imperial pendant is a diamond heart of lorkhan is a diamond chim-el-adabal is a red diamond the imperial ruby is a red diamond red diamond red diamond is the heart of lorkhan that heart of the world and the time devourer.
auriel and shor are souls of souls of anu and padomay they are all reflections of each other. either way you look at it it was time/duration who or it gave the amulet to alessia to save creatia from daedric incursion.
once if it were to happen if white gold tower was split from nirn the hub of the wheel (aurbis) is over.
only a force of nature can end and restart a new time and that is the kalpa - alduin.
remember this lore has had many contradictions from lore creators.

Are you saying the 3 banners war lasted for several hundred years and even long after at least 2 of the 3 rulers have croaked from old age a hundred something years prior? Tiber Septim was born hundreds of years after ESO even takes place, Talos didn't end the war it ended centuries before he was even born.

The short answer is no one wins.

The nuanced answer is that the Bretons and Nords suffer the least with the collapse of their alliances, at first separately and then together in their own alliance.

The first notable war after the Three Banners War is the Nord-Breton War... After the alliances themselves fall apart, the province of High Rock has the most influence inside and outside of the Imperial Palace. The Bretons dominate the Nords until the arrival of Talos on the scene, who, trained by High Rock and with the aid of the voice, convince the Nords to travel under his banner and turn the tide of the war so that the Bretons become impoverished. It is not until Talos begins to falter under the overwhelming forces of the renewed Imperial Palace that the Bretons are compelled to join forces with Talos and successfully swarm Cyrodiil and claim the Ruby Throne under a new Empire under Talos (Tiber) Septim.

americansteel

technically no one won WW1 although the Germans (not their war) got the short end of the stick, the German people pressed their government to sign the armistices to end the senseless killing of their peoples, Germans and British including Americans were still fighting after the treaty was signed.
just because alliances fail to keep going for an objective doesn't mean all fighting will end for the prize. this is what happens when the alliances fall apart.

americansteel

2E 852

General Talos destroys the allied Nord and Breton in the citadel of Sancre Tor. The Nord captives and generals eventually join General Talos' army. They play a crucial role in General Talos' succeeding campaigns which consolidated the Colovian and Nibenean into the core of the Cyrodilic Empire, and which resulting in the crowning of General Talos as Emperor Tiber Septim.



2E 854

The Emperor Cuhlecain (later is known as Emperor Zero) of Cyrodiil is assassinated by a High Rock nightblade. General Talos takes the throne of the Empire and adopts a Cyrodiilic name, Tiber Septim. He starts his conquest to unite all Tamriel under the Cyrodiil Empire.



2E 862

Tiber Septim's army sweeps Tamriel, and, one by one, all independent kingdoms are consolidated into the Empire. Only Hammerfell, under the High King Thassad II, resists all Septim's attempts. The death of Thassad II plunges Hammerfell into a war between the traditionalist Crowns and the progressive Forbears. The Forebears makes a pact with Tiber Septim to secure their victory. The Crowns are crushed and Hammerfell eventually falls to Tiber Septim.

The last leader of the Crowns, Prince A'tor, tries desperately to resist the Empire from his stronghold in Stros M'kai. The Battle of Hunding Bay ends with the death of Prince A'tor and the conquest of Hammerfell. Amiel Richton is appointed Provisional Governor of Stros M'Kai

DeepElf

Sheogorath

Jyggalag no doubt. And there are theories he might be back.

Tryxus

DeepElf wrote: »

Jyggalag no doubt. And there are theories he might be back.

Daedric Prince of Necromancy is strongest