DC Cheaters on chillrend ps4 NA have taken it to far with ep spy

Valen_Byte

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

so if someone isn't cheating but they defend a cheater you saying they become cheats for defending a cheater WTF your logic is worthless

Actually, that is exactly right.

If you are aware that someone is doing something wrong, and you do nothing to stop them, or help them do it. Then you ARE aiding and abetting. This means you are just as guilty as them. It's not flawed logic...its truth.

Valen_Byte

catalyst10e wrote: »

I'll say this, I don't agree with what they did, it was wrong, stupid, and robs the fun of the whole campaign. Had I myself been there, I might've at least tried to kill him to give the reds an opportunity to pick the scroll back up. (No way I'd run it over myself and get reported) But I'd also say you can't disparage ALL of DC for the actions of a single EX EP, and his guildmates. DC didn't "cheat" Dockers and his guild did. They really do need to implement a sort of block to keep same characters from the same campaign.

This all does reflect poorly on DC, so as a DC you have my sincerest apologies.

True, but I can say...usually when I see shady stuff happen in Cyro, its DC doing it. Profiling works.

Greyhame

Well this crap has continued to go on all week. We can smash them back to their gates, take scrolls, and lose the scrolls within an hour because of this crap.

It has gotten so bad that some people have had to forego getting AP or having and fun so they can guard the scroll.

Zos stance on it was a big middle finger. Support has said it is part of the game and they are not exploiting anything.

I find that claim ridiculous due to the fact they are using the Ambush/Dragon Leap bug to get Blues into the keep and into the scroll room WITHOUT flagging the keep at all or raising any alarm. Then the blue nabs the scroll, dies to the NPC, and the red traitor picks it up and runs it back in god mode 4TW.

The sad thing is that the DC presence on Chillrend is made up of a lot of good players and its not like this is a situation where they were being smashed over and over and did this out of desperation. It was a very competitive campaign and now not only has a number of them ruined it for the DC that play the game properly, they have ruined the campaign overall because only scrolls matter.

Many players are pissed to the point of playing a different game. Others are ready to do the same thing to DC if that is the way the game is played now. Still others are just ready to jump to another campaign but that is problematic since Azura seems to be the only other balanced campaign and we don't all want hour long queue times to get in.

I don't know about all that but I know my ESO+ account is gone now, I'm not paying a company money that doesn't support their product. Since the game is free and there are no MMO alternatives on PS4 I'll still be playing but I'm not going to spend another dime on it till this *** gets fixed.

Sithisvoid

Greyhame wrote: »

Well this crap has continued to go on all week. We can smash them back to their gates, take scrolls, and lose the scrolls within an hour because of this crap.

It has gotten so bad that some people have had to forego getting AP or having and fun so they can guard the scroll.

Zos stance on it was a big middle finger. Support has said it is part of the game and they are not exploiting anything.

I find that claim ridiculous due to the fact they are using the Ambush/Dragon Leap bug to get Blues into the keep and into the scroll room WITHOUT flagging the keep at all or raising any alarm. Then the blue nabs the scroll, dies to the NPC, and the red traitor picks it up and runs it back in god mode 4TW.

The sad thing is that the DC presence on Chillrend is made up of a lot of good players and its not like this is a situation where they were being smashed over and over and did this out of desperation. It was a very competitive campaign and now not only has a number of them ruined it for the DC that play the game properly, they have ruined the campaign overall because only scrolls matter.

Many players are pissed to the point of playing a different game. Others are ready to do the same thing to DC if that is the way the game is played now. Still others are just ready to jump to another campaign but that is problematic since Azura seems to be the only other balanced campaign and we don't all want hour long queue times to get in.

I don't know about all that but I know my ESO+ account is gone now, I'm not paying a company money that doesn't support their product. Since the game is free and there are no MMO alternatives on PS4 I'll still be playing but I'm not going to spend another dime on it till this *** gets fixed.

I have a DC character lets do it back to them. It's a magika NB too my specialty is hiding out in enemy keeps and ganking

Greyhame

Sithisvoid wrote: »

I have a DC character lets do it back to them. It's a magika NB too my specialty is hiding out in enemy keeps and ganking

I'm not there yet. Once we start doing than it will keep getting more prevalent until everyone has to do it just to keep up.

Yggdrasil_Gof

I haven't seen this myself, but have heard about a few times. I wouldn't like to be involved in it anymore than I would like it done to me, but it depends how real you want the game to be. In real life, and warfare you have spies, and all manner of dirty tricks to aid one side or another. As I say I don't like it but I accept it.
My personal dark act, (I'm sure some will find unsavory), using my NB skills to sometimes sneak past the main fight and attack a fortress, or outpost with a trebuchet. When the wall is damaged enough the enemy can't teleport there, breaking the link and stopping the enemies flow to the fortress we are attacking or defending. If you can't do one that breaks the chain then you can at least cause a distraction by attacking another.
Some would say dirty tactics, maybe cheating, but isn't it just what special forces do, go behind enemy lines and attack tactical positions.
I don't like what you are talking about with the spy thing, I think it a bit low, but as the expression goes, all is fair in love and war. if you can have tanks, infantry, and aerial bombardment then why can't you have special forces, agents behind enemy lines, spies and infiltrators.
The biggest problem here is that what I do is hard work. There's the possibility of being killed at any moment by a random passer by, those that have got wise, and my own misjudgment of how defended, or can't hide quick or well enough before the enemy arrive, but I am attacking the enemy of the alliance I am wearing the colours of. With the spy he can't be countered even when discovered, so for me spies in principal are ok, but there should be a system allowing someone to be marked as a spy. In your situation maybe if a system that says if 5 maybe 10 people mark someone as a spy they can be attacked by their alliance, this is where it strays from a real life situation as you can't counter the spy. Maybe they can be classed in PvP as having no affiliation to an alliance for 24 hrs, or when they are caught can choose one of the other 2 alliances for 24 hours, essentially making the spy defect. This would be a little more realistic, and means there is no actual kicking from PvP, just the character is kicked from It's alliance temporarily.
As for Alts there are only so many, (7 others), and It's unlikely they would all be in the same alliance. A more extreme application of this idea would be to for all the Alts that are part of the alliance they deceive are also temporarily transferred to the faction they choose after being caught.
As an example Someone in DC is really working for AD, (sorry AD, according to an earlier post you don't cheat, but It's just an example ;-) ), and are heading towards AD territory with your scroll. Enough players, (so that the system can't be abused against players somebody just doesn't like), mark this player as a spy. The player is no longer considered part of that alliance, and can now be attacked by DC. He escapes with the scroll, or is killed and the scroll retrieved. From that point they are discovered that character, and maybe all other DC Alts are no longer part of DC so they can't just login with another DC Alt to try the same trick again on DC.
For 24 hours any DC character will have a red marker indicating them as a DC enemy. When they are safe, or as soon as they die they have to choose one of the other two factions, (in this case youu would expect them to chose AD), but they still have a chance to spy on the second enemy. Eventually though if they are caught by EP all their characters are locked to AD because they can't choose DC as they are already locked out of DC. If they spy on AD at this point they are now an outcast to all alliances. It would be stupid to put yourself in that position, but if you double cross everyone then you have nowhere to call home, and no allies.

Sorry for such a long post, but spies aren't the problem, It's not being able to deal with them when they have been caught.

Sithisvoid

Yggdrasil_Gof wrote: »

Sorry for such a long post, but spies aren't the problem, It's not being able to deal with them when they have been caught.

I agree if we could just kill them it would be no issue.

Greyhame

Right I'm fine with the idea of espionage but this is not that. This is outright cheating using a bug exploit and then having no repercussions when you are caught. So they either need to police it, fix the bug, or allow players to police their own alliance.

Sheezabeast

At the end of the day you gotta remember that its not that its the right or the wrong thing, but that its the politically correct thing to do, to defend people who play below the belt. Zos can't tell a person who paid for their game not to do dirty tricks, they can't police integrity and they can't start a report war, people would begin falsely reporting anyone they didn't wanna deal with anymore. Its low what happened, it sucks, its bad sportsmanship, its blatant idiocy, but alas you still have the right to be a nincompoop in a video game

RAGUNAnoOne

this is pathetic...

RAGUNAnoOne

I just wish that there was a system where if someone takes a scroll if enough people in your faction tag the person they can be killed by there own faction.I can see a way to abuse this but it is better than this...

Sithisvoid

Sheezabeast wrote: »

At the end of the day you gotta remember that its not that its the right or the wrong thing, but that its the politically correct thing to do, to defend people who play below the belt. Zos can't tell a person who paid for their game not to do dirty tricks, they can't police integrity and they can't start a report war, people would begin falsely reporting anyone they didn't wanna deal with anymore. Its low what happened, it sucks, its bad sportsmanship, its blatant idiocy, but alas you still have the right to be a nincompoop in a video game

Yeah i can't argue with that. You're right

Aunatar

Cillion3117 wrote: »

Spies, Espionage, and Turncoats have always been a part of war. It might be dirty, but it is effective.

Friendly fire is possible in real life.

RAGUNAnoOne

Aunatar wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

Spies, Espionage, and Turncoats have always been a part of war. It might be dirty, but it is effective.

Friendly fire is possible in real life.

the problem herein this game is that you can't FF obvious spies if we had FF then spies like these would be a bit less of an issue right ?

Yggdrasil_Gof

@RAGUNAnoOne

I agree with you about the system, or a similar system being abused. That's why I suggested a predetermined minimum amount of players to mark the traitor. It would be a hard balance though, too few and it would be too easy to abuse other players, too many and you might not have enough players around the traitor to mark them as a spy. I'm not able to judge myself, it would take a better person than me to decide the most suitable amount needed for a good balance. I suggested somewhere between 5 and 10, which must be in the right ball park, but you don't want one group or guild picking on an individual. Maybe a report system for the accused if it happens several times, for no reason, and they feel they are being victimized. You hit the nail on the head, FF spies with a system that would have the minimum potential for abuse.

I have heard of a different type of spy that is even harder to detect, and can have just as powerful an impact, of not more so, these a more like a traditional spy. I saw on another site, (it might have been steam), a player claimed they had used their EP character to report tactics and troop movement to his AD friends helping his guild leader become emperor.
That really is a traditional spy, but how do you even catch them, let alone have a system that allows you to bring them to justice. You can't monitor any conversations they have with player in another alliance, it would be against privacy policy I should think. You can't punish them just for communication with someone in a different alliance, it maybe a genuine conversation about how good the battle they've just fought, or are arranging to play together tomorrow.
Even if you had something in place that prevented you even communicating with friends of a different alliance that is in PvP at th same time as you it couldn't be stopped. There's PlayStation Network, whatever the Xbox version is, or a separate window on your PC, other devices such as phones.
We can't stop this underhand behavior, but we should have a system to minimize the damage the can cause. All exploits, loopholes, and cheats will be used by some members of every alliance, so we all have members that do this for us, and against us. For the benefit of the majority of us more honest, and slightly naughty players we need a way to counteract the actions of those pure traitors that are in our ranks.

Like I say I don't like it, but I believe it should be allowed if people are able to react to a spy if they are discovered.

RAGUNAnoOne

there may be a very simple thing that ZOS can do to get rid of traditional spies, so simple they should be kicking themselves for not thinking of it: Disable guild chats in cyrodiil. The only problem may arise from console party chat and most definitely the message system but while you are in party you are unable to hear the orders and if you send too many messages conveniently after orders....

Insurrektion

While this type of action does ruin the spirit of the game, it isn't cheating. It does cry out for players to pick a faction to play for upon first joining the game, however (since VoIP would still allow this behavior to exist even if guilds weren't limited to faction). The problem is, too many players have invested too much time into making characters on multiple factions. These other players don't deserve to be punished as well. I guess WoW was on to something when they decided their open-world pvp servers would limit players to play as one faction or another...

vonfelty

The solution would be to add traitor votes. Say if 20 people vote you as a traitor that you can be killed by your own faction. Make it so you can only do this while the person is holding a scroll and traitor status only lasts 30 minutes or until death.

dday3six

vonfelty wrote: »

The solution would be to add traitor votes. Say if 20 people vote you as a traitor that you can be killed by your own faction. Make it so you can only do this while the person is holding a scroll and traitor status only lasts 30 minutes or until death.

That's overly complicated and easily abusable. It's easier to just Alliance lock accounts (after an Alliance change feature with a minimum 24 hour cooldown is added, of course).

peregrinuss

Same thing yesterday, my guild have the vídeo. We'll publish it soon, don't care about exposure. I hope its just one coward.

Stoney_McGeee

Solution : Home at a new campaign where Scrolls don't dictate the score boards.. (people will continue to have soys, and will continue making charters on other alliances.. Just like when nerds happen, we just gotta work around it..

Everyone that was Homed in Chillrend, lets just get Pack our bags , (DC/AD/EP) and leave for a new home and not join the Azura Ban wagon, and get another legit campaign on board.
Just a thought..
(it'll take like a year waiting for Zeni to reply to this "vote traitor" thing)

Winterpsy

Guess I watched too many Game of Thrones to be totallly desenzitized to stuff like this.

Hell, we were discussing with buddies that to help the poorly managed enemy faction we should move a scroll to them. For the love of some buff, as they were leaving the campaign en masse, leaving us without action.

Turelus

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

that's not cheating that's just playing dirty

ZOS do warn/ban over it however. So it's not something they want in their game.

deathscythe

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

Solution : Home at a new campaign where Scrolls don't dictate the score boards.. (people will continue to have soys, and will continue making charters on other alliances.. Just like when nerds happen, we just gotta work around it..

Everyone that was Homed in Chillrend, lets just get Pack our bags , (DC/AD/EP) and leave for a new home and not join the Azura Ban wagon, and get another legit campaign on board.
Just a thought..
(it'll take like a year waiting for Zeni to reply to this "vote traitor" thing)

Problem with this is its a constant thing. move to one campaign till the queue gets bad or the cheating/exploiting/lag/Zerg battles gets bad then you have to move again. The Change in how points are gained just suck as a whole. Scrolls only campaigns should just be axed due to this type of situation.

Stoney_McGeee

deathscythe wrote: »

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

Solution : Home at a new campaign where Scrolls don't dictate the score boards.. (people will continue to have soys, and will continue making charters on other alliances.. Just like when nerds happen, we just gotta work around it..

Everyone that was Homed in Chillrend, lets just get Pack our bags , (DC/AD/EP) and leave for a new home and not join the Azura Ban wagon, and get another legit campaign on board.
Just a thought..
(it'll take like a year waiting for Zeni to reply to this "vote traitor" thing)

Problem with this is its a constant thing. move to one campaign till the queue gets bad or the cheating/exploiting/lag/Zerg battles gets bad then you have to move again. The Change in how points are gained just suck as a whole. Scrolls only campaigns should just be axed due to this type of situation.

Will you actually be playing in a year though when Zeni actually listens? Lol