(VIDEO) Stamina DK Xeloki - Leap it Up Montage (Take Flight Ultimate)

Etaniel

Erock25 wrote: »

But really nothing has changed with WB -> HA animation cancelling besides the fact that in certain cases, the animation that is being cancelled/hidden is now WB instead of the HA. You always could hide your HA under a WB but now you can sometimes if you get the timing right (or wrong depending on if you want it or not) you can hide your WB animation in front of a HA. THe only difference as far as I'm concerned is the standard WB - HA ani cancel always gave me partial heavies unless I wanted to extend the downtime between my WBs. With the new way, I can manage full HA and only add a tiny bit of time between my WB intervals. This comes at the cost of it being much more difficult to land your WB as you have no animation for it so distance and aiming becomes trickier and if you are planning on using the new WB - HA animation cancel and screw up (which is pretty easy especially in PVP) you are going to lose either a WB or a HA and be much worse off than if you just continued the old system of WB - HA cancel.

Ok, I never knew about this, but it doesn't change my argument one bit.
Animation cancelling is about CANCELLING the animation, not HIDING it.
Both HA and WB are attacks that you need to "charge" for them to work. While you can stop a heavy attack's animation and deal lesser damage because you didn't finish it, cancelling a WB should cancel the whole skill and deal no dmg.

Cancelling an animation is used so that once the dmg has been registered, you don't go through unnecessary animation, thus putting an end to a skill. With animation cancelling is it strictly impossible to have two skills hit at the same time, you can only get them very close together.

With this "hiding" stuff you are letting one skill charge up while you are doing something else. Maybe it's been in the game for a long time, but it's not ok.

Erock25

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

You can completely clip a light attack by WB, but a medium or especially a heavy attack will still display and add extra time before your WB starts charging, fiving more time to the target to gtfo.

It was always super easy to WB - MA and have basically 0 animation on the MA.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Fully masking WB with a heavy attack is much much more potent. First, I don't think I'm about to get CCed, so I'm potentially not blocking. Secondly, you are landing a fully charged heavy by the looks of things, not a medium, which is also getting the Empower from WB.

It is more potent and does have the benefit of confusing the enemy and fitting a fully charged HA in there and only minimally increasing time between WBs.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't really care if it's "difficult" to get right. With either macroing or plenty of practice there will be people that get it right >90% of the time. Like they do with bash-cancel these days. If there's an advantage to be taken you can be sure players will learn to take advantage of it.

It is difficult to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if it is a bug and I'm also not surprised to hear people calling it a desync issue. There have been countless times where I'm positive I got the timing just right and it fails. At 60ms and from a fresh start I will say I can get it to work 99% of the time and can usually keep that chain going indefintely as long as I only do the WB - HA. If I throw in an instant skill or a light attack or whatever it is difficult to get it going again. It almost seems to me that if I break my chain of WB - HA, I need to do a separate and fully charged HA that isn't a part of any cancelling to get back on track. If I am at 90+ms I don't even really both trying to do this new WB - HA cancel unless I am PVEing.

Maybe someone out there can get this thing working for them 100% of the time in all situations and in that case they are increasing their effectiveness by 10-15% over the regular old WB - HA cancel. At this point for me it seems to screw me up more often than it helps me in PVP.

Alcast

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

Erock25

Alcast wrote: »

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

It's just semantics calling them medium or partial heavy or whatever but they are more dmg than a light attack for sure.

If you look at 00:44 you can see you start that add off with a new WB - HA cancel. Your WB animation stops and is replaced by a heavy attack even though the WB dmg still happens. It isn't as tight as it can be though and if done better that WB dmg hits like 0.1 - 0.2 seconds before you can land a fully charged heavy attack. You immediately follow that up with an old WB - HA cancel where your full WB animation plays with a medium attack landing like 0.1s later. The medium attack animation is so short it's just like a little hitch with the hands and no sword swing at all.

If no one gets around to it I will upload a video of the new WB - HA animation cancelling in about 8 hours or so when I get home.

Ezareth

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Have to agree with @Etaniel.

Clipping a light attack is one thing. Clipping a casted skill with a heavy attack is quite another. Getting a WB and a 2H heavy attack to land in the same second is insane burst and CC. And bear in mind none of it can be interrupted.

I'm not 100% cool with bash-cancelling attacks either, as Derra has said it turns a defensive weapon (S&B) with some fantastic passives and skills into a prime DPS weapon too. But at least that is only viable on S&B which as a setup has less weapon dmg and the total damage of the combo is about the same as 1 wrecking blow, but without the CC.

Is it a randomly occurring thing or is it reproducible 100% of the time?

If they're landing at the same time the heavy attack can't be fully charged. I only get 4-6K heavies to land with my Wrecking blows which is no different than light attacks. There is no major advantage to doing this, it's just a bugged animation.

WB is CC. Clipping WB, means I don't know I'm about to get CCed which for me is a major problem. I rarely block a heavy attack but will very frequently react to an incoming WB and clipping the skill denies me that opportunity.

Also 4k-6k medium attacks are much more damage than 2-3k light attacks (depending on wpn dmg ofc). Though I don't know why you wouldn't take the time to fully charge it especially as a DK with Molten Armaments.

Fully charged heavy takes ~2" and WB is 1" cast time. If you clip WB perfectly your full heavy will land about 1" after which is unavoidable if the target did not realise he was about to get CCed and has to waste a cooldown on CC break. With molten armaments your fully charged heavies can hit 10k easily (more if on low health) and as with any light/medium/heavy attack it can be followed by an instant skill like Executioner.

You are still landing 3 attacks in the space of 1", albeit with a 1" charge time for WB.

Fengrush regularly gets 7K light attacks and he doesn't heavy attack with his wrecking blows at all from when I asked him.

If you fully chage the heavy attack as was mentioned you lose DPS since wrecking blow does far more damage and it delays the time for the next one (unless you have 100 CPs into heavy weapons as well as 100 into mighty which means you're probably in the 800CP+ club and shouldn't really be included in this discussion.

DKs are probably the only people who can take advantage of this. The nature of heavy attacks is that you charge them up *before* reaching your target and then follow it up with other abilities.

Either way, it began in 1.7, was reported and ignored. I think it should be fixed, but I also think that there is no major exploitation of this bug going on right now as the advantage beyond having a jacked up animation isn't there.

If you're fighting someone with a 2 hander and are standing in range you should expect to get wrecking blowed. If blocking is your solution to fight these players then by all means block when in range.

Alcast

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

It's just semantics calling them medium or partial heavy or whatever but they are more dmg than a light attack for sure.

If you look at 00:44 you can see you start that add off with a new WB - HA cancel. Your WB animation stops and is replaced by a heavy attack even though the WB dmg still happens. It isn't as tight as it can be though and if done better that WB dmg hits like 0.1 - 0.2 seconds before you can land a fully charged heavy attack. You immediately follow that up with an old WB - HA cancel where your full WB animation plays with a medium attack landing like 0.1s later. The medium attack animation is so short it's just like a little hitch with the hands and no sword swing at all.

If no one gets around to it I will upload a video of the new WB - HA animation cancelling in about 8 hours or so when I get home.

The ones in the video are fully charged heavy attacks animation canceled with Wblow.

Keep holding Heavy Attack button and press Wblow every 1s. Works also with bow, works also with Destro Staff....works also with dualwield..

Galalin

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

Etaniel

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

Galalin

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

It does not change the time it take to land a wb what it does do is as Ezareth stated it adds a heavy attack that is not fully charged.... this is the way its always been. The only change is if you time it right you will only see the heavy attack animation.n.. that changed in the last patch

DK SCRUB OUT

Almost forgot to add my dk scrub

Erock25

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

It's just semantics calling them medium or partial heavy or whatever but they are more dmg than a light attack for sure.

If you look at 00:44 you can see you start that add off with a new WB - HA cancel. Your WB animation stops and is replaced by a heavy attack even though the WB dmg still happens. It isn't as tight as it can be though and if done better that WB dmg hits like 0.1 - 0.2 seconds before you can land a fully charged heavy attack. You immediately follow that up with an old WB - HA cancel where your full WB animation plays with a medium attack landing like 0.1s later. The medium attack animation is so short it's just like a little hitch with the hands and no sword swing at all.

If no one gets around to it I will upload a video of the new WB - HA animation cancelling in about 8 hours or so when I get home.

The ones in the video are fully charged heavy attacks animation canceled with Wblow.

Keep holding Heavy Attack button and press Wblow every 1s. Works also with bow, works also with Destro Staff....works also with dualwield..

Yes from 17s to around 31s it looks like you are pulling off old style full heavy cancels. Your cancelling style from 17 - 31 is definitely adding a half second or more additional time between your WB but is very much worth it with those high hitting heavy attacks that a DK has with Igneous Weapons.

47s to 51s you pull off two old style WB - medium cancels.

Neither of these are the new style WB cancels where you can use a full heavy or partial heavy to cancel your WB animation.

Alcast

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

It's just semantics calling them medium or partial heavy or whatever but they are more dmg than a light attack for sure.

If you look at 00:44 you can see you start that add off with a new WB - HA cancel. Your WB animation stops and is replaced by a heavy attack even though the WB dmg still happens. It isn't as tight as it can be though and if done better that WB dmg hits like 0.1 - 0.2 seconds before you can land a fully charged heavy attack. You immediately follow that up with an old WB - HA cancel where your full WB animation plays with a medium attack landing like 0.1s later. The medium attack animation is so short it's just like a little hitch with the hands and no sword swing at all.

If no one gets around to it I will upload a video of the new WB - HA animation cancelling in about 8 hours or so when I get home.

The ones in the video are fully charged heavy attacks animation canceled with Wblow.

Keep holding Heavy Attack button and press Wblow every 1s. Works also with bow, works also with Destro Staff....works also with dualwield..

Yes from 17s to around 31s it looks like you are pulling off old style full heavy cancels. Your cancelling style from 17 - 31 is definitely adding a half second or more additional time between your WB but is very much worth it with those high hitting heavy attacks that a DK has with Igneous Weapons.

47s to 51s you pull off two old style WB - medium cancels.

Neither of these are the new style WB cancels where you can use a full heavy or partial heavy to cancel your WB animation.

I never managed to do those "newly charged HA" by purpose yet, maybe I should try, but I am pretty sure it only can happen when the *** lag takes over..

But maybe there is more to learn, making this build even stronker.

I mean I can land a "medium" attack right after Wblow but it will only be a Light Attack...nothing more.

Etaniel

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

It does not change the time it take to land a wb what it does do is as Ezareth stated it adds a heavy attack that is not fully charged.... this is the way its always been. The only change is if you time it right you will only see the heavy attack animation.n.. that changed in the last patch

DK SCRUB OUT

Almost forgot to add my dk scrub

Let me rephrase one last time, I know it takes the same amount of time for the wb to land....... What bothers me is that you can add a medium/light/heavy whatever attack after you have started casting the WB, but before the WB lands, get me? Meaning that you are both casting a spell/skill that requires a cast time AND pulling off something else at the same time.
not ok.

Maulkin

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Have to agree with @Etaniel.

Clipping a light attack is one thing. Clipping a casted skill with a heavy attack is quite another. Getting a WB and a 2H heavy attack to land in the same second is insane burst and CC. And bear in mind none of it can be interrupted.

I'm not 100% cool with bash-cancelling attacks either, as Derra has said it turns a defensive weapon (S&B) with some fantastic passives and skills into a prime DPS weapon too. But at least that is only viable on S&B which as a setup has less weapon dmg and the total damage of the combo is about the same as 1 wrecking blow, but without the CC.

Is it a randomly occurring thing or is it reproducible 100% of the time?

If they're landing at the same time the heavy attack can't be fully charged. I only get 4-6K heavies to land with my Wrecking blows which is no different than light attacks. There is no major advantage to doing this, it's just a bugged animation.

WB is CC. Clipping WB, means I don't know I'm about to get CCed which for me is a major problem. I rarely block a heavy attack but will very frequently react to an incoming WB and clipping the skill denies me that opportunity.

Also 4k-6k medium attacks are much more damage than 2-3k light attacks (depending on wpn dmg ofc). Though I don't know why you wouldn't take the time to fully charge it especially as a DK with Molten Armaments.

Fully charged heavy takes ~2" and WB is 1" cast time. If you clip WB perfectly your full heavy will land about 1" after which is unavoidable if the target did not realise he was about to get CCed and has to waste a cooldown on CC break. With molten armaments your fully charged heavies can hit 10k easily (more if on low health) and as with any light/medium/heavy attack it can be followed by an instant skill like Executioner.

You are still landing 3 attacks in the space of 1", albeit with a 1" charge time for WB.

Fengrush regularly gets 7K light attacks and he doesn't heavy attack with his wrecking blows at all from when I asked him.

If you fully chage the heavy attack as was mentioned you lose DPS since wrecking blow does far more damage and it delays the time for the next one (unless you have 100 CPs into heavy weapons as well as 100 into mighty which means you're probably in the 800CP+ club and shouldn't really be included in this discussion.

DKs are probably the only people who can take advantage of this. The nature of heavy attacks is that you charge them up *before* reaching your target and then follow it up with other abilities.

Either way, it began in 1.7, was reported and ignored. I think it should be fixed, but I also think that there is no major exploitation of this bug going on right now as the advantage beyond having a jacked up animation isn't there.

If you're fighting someone with a 2 hander and are standing in range you should expect to get wrecking blowed. If blocking is your solution to fight these players then by all means block when in range.

7k Light Attack in PvP would require ~10k weapon damage and a crit, given that damage is halved by Battle Spirit.

You know yourself having played light armor staff builds, you can't just hold block when someone is in melee range to you now. You will go OOS in 3" flat. Depending on the situation I will block only when I absolutely have to (i.e. many opponents, a CC could kill me before I have time break it and escape) and most often I will Streak through my opponent. If my Streak is on an insane cost stack already and depending on my surroundings I might decide to just shield and CC break it.

All of the above however are reactions to what my opponent is doing. If he's not WBing me, I'll happily sit inside my mines and in melee range my frag procs are harder to dodge/block.

Like I said, it's very important for me to know when I'm about to be hit with a lot of damage + CC and clipping the animation of 1"-cast skill denies me that opportunity.

Erock25

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

There is no medium attacks.
Medium attacks on addons are displayed as Heavy attacks but with LIGHT ATTACK damage.

Check this out, here I am Wblow Heavy weaving, watch from 00:17.
Everything apart from that is just *** buggy because ZOS messed up the animations
Some people dont even bother Heavy attack and just Spam Wblow, same as Nbs spam Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush like mofos

https://youtu.be/v5KjLvgzbkc

It's just semantics calling them medium or partial heavy or whatever but they are more dmg than a light attack for sure.

If you look at 00:44 you can see you start that add off with a new WB - HA cancel. Your WB animation stops and is replaced by a heavy attack even though the WB dmg still happens. It isn't as tight as it can be though and if done better that WB dmg hits like 0.1 - 0.2 seconds before you can land a fully charged heavy attack. You immediately follow that up with an old WB - HA cancel where your full WB animation plays with a medium attack landing like 0.1s later. The medium attack animation is so short it's just like a little hitch with the hands and no sword swing at all.

If no one gets around to it I will upload a video of the new WB - HA animation cancelling in about 8 hours or so when I get home.

The ones in the video are fully charged heavy attacks animation canceled with Wblow.

Keep holding Heavy Attack button and press Wblow every 1s. Works also with bow, works also with Destro Staff....works also with dualwield..

Yes from 17s to around 31s it looks like you are pulling off old style full heavy cancels. Your cancelling style from 17 - 31 is definitely adding a half second or more additional time between your WB but is very much worth it with those high hitting heavy attacks that a DK has with Igneous Weapons.

47s to 51s you pull off two old style WB - medium cancels.

Neither of these are the new style WB cancels where you can use a full heavy or partial heavy to cancel your WB animation.

I never managed to do those "newly charged HA" by purpose yet, maybe I should try, but I am pretty sure it only can happen when the *** lag takes over..

But maybe there is more to learn, making this build even stronker.

I mean I can land a "medium" attack right after Wblow but it will only be a Light Attack...nothing more.

You can absolutely do the new WB - HA animation cancel on demand, especially in PVE.

I wouldn't bet my life on it as I haven't looked into it in a while, but those medium attacks hit harder for me than light attacks ever did. It doesn't matter if I'm on a caster or melee, partially charging your heavies (either before the instant attack or after a channeled attack like WB) definitely does more dmg than weaving light attacks.

Maulkin

Erock25 wrote: »

I wouldn't bet my life on it as I haven't looked into it in a while, but those medium attacks hit harder for me than light attacks ever did. It doesn't matter if I'm on a caster or melee, partially charging your heavies (either before the instant attack or after a channeled attack like WB) definitely does more dmg than weaving light attacks.

They sure do. On the firestaff as well. The longer you hold the LMB the more damage it does. FTC records them as heavies but they are not fully charged heavies. It's what we call "medium" attacks.

Galalin

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

It does not change the time it take to land a wb what it does do is as Ezareth stated it adds a heavy attack that is not fully charged.... this is the way its always been. The only change is if you time it right you will only see the heavy attack animation.n.. that changed in the last patch

DK SCRUB OUT

Almost forgot to add my dk scrub

Let me rephrase one last time, I know it takes the same amount of time for the wb to land....... What bothers me is that you can add a medium/light/heavy whatever attack after you have started casting the WB, but before the WB lands, get me? Meaning that you are both casting a spell/skill that requires a cast time AND pulling off something else at the same time.
not ok.

It has always.... and by always i mean always.... been this way. As i stated before the only thing that has changed is the ability to overlay the heavy attack animation over the WB. So i understand the point of want to see the CC ability but other than that there is nothing wrong here and nothing has changed.

DK SCRUB OUT

Etaniel

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

It does not change the time it take to land a wb what it does do is as Ezareth stated it adds a heavy attack that is not fully charged.... this is the way its always been. The only change is if you time it right you will only see the heavy attack animation.n.. that changed in the last patch

DK SCRUB OUT

Almost forgot to add my dk scrub

Let me rephrase one last time, I know it takes the same amount of time for the wb to land....... What bothers me is that you can add a medium/light/heavy whatever attack after you have started casting the WB, but before the WB lands, get me? Meaning that you are both casting a spell/skill that requires a cast time AND pulling off something else at the same time.
not ok.

It has always.... and by always i mean always.... been this way. As i stated before the only thing that has changed is the ability to overlay the heavy attack animation over the WB. So i understand the point of want to see the CC ability but other than that there is nothing wrong here and nothing has changed.

DK SCRUB OUT

I get that, I said I got that ^^
Just because a bug/exploit has always been possible doesn't make it ok.
I don't blame people for using it since ZOS conveniently gives us access to it, but it should definitely be fixed.

Alcast

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

that 24k leap T_T

When orsinium launches gonna try 30-35k leaps on enemies, just for the lols.

Yonkit wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

1min 31 please tell me how this work.
Clearly the animation for the wrecking blow stops, and yet the wrecking blow doesn't hit until you've charged your heavy attack. There's something very fishy that I don't understand?

Animation cancelling is usually done as soon as the dmg hits so that the useless animation is cut out, here it's something that I don't understand...

@Etaniel It's a known, or at least I thought it was, known bug. @Alcast it isn't lag buddy, if you time it right you can desync the WB whenever you want, not calling you out but it has nothing to do with lag lol. Just another reason Wrecking Blow needs to be looked at. It's also another reason I refuse to use 2H as my main source of damage as a Stamina DK, aside from the obvious cheese of it, pop rally, swap to Sword n Board, don't even use executioner but don't really need it either.

@Etaniel it has something to do with charging a heavy attack either during or right before the WB, too lazy to test it but out of every 4 WBs that I use when grinding it probably happens once. Just some odd bug that's involved with weaving heavy attacks with WB, it's also why if you stack weapon damage and use molten armaments with a fully charged WB and this bug happens anyone you hit with it, is pretty much dead, instantly.

Hm prolly, tho I do NOT see it as a "helpful" bug because it messes your timing up if you do not know when the f...wblow its...its annoying as f.

Alucardo wrote: »

Nice vid again (I always enjoy watching yours for some reason). Ever had that weird leap bug where the wings get stuck at your feet? It looks ridiculous xD

yes lol xD Lag+when sb right walks out of the leap range you gonna be stuck with the wings. Looks fabulous hahah

Galalin wrote: »

Almost nothing has changed with the heavy atttack WB in the last patch... you could always start a heavy attack then WB and have them land at almost the same time.... so what has changed you ask? The animation order....before your heavy attack animation would be the one to be canceled and now the WB animation is the one that is canceled.... this happened last patch...you can also if within about 8-10 meters of a player start a heavy attack the crit ruah and land both.... its always been this way it just looks different now.

Added: it depends on the timing of starting your WB after your heavy attack which animation gets canceled

DK SCRUB OUT

I mainly weave HA+Wblow against close enemies and both buff each other...wblow buffs HA by 20% and the HA buffs Wblow by 10% and you can Anicancel both so every 1s you get a hit on the enemy.

it does advantage you though. Your target should have the time to cc break before your heavy attack lands, because there's a "casting " animation for it, here he has absolutely no opportunity to react. How is this different that regular animation cancelling? You're shortening a cast time here......

regular animation cancelling : 1second animation, dmg goes through at .5 sec, so you cancel the remaining useless .5 sec animation, here it's a 1 sec animation but the dmg comes at 1 sec, yet you are cutting a .5 sec animation, allowing you to add a heavy attack and both land at 1 sec instead of having the total dmg done in 1.5 sec (not actual numbers, just threw them for example purposes)

Whether you are doing it on purpose or not, it is definitely to your advantage

Isn't that the point of animation canceling? Hell you shave off even more time using light attack + ability + bash/block ... i dont see the problem here.

DK SCRUB OUT

@Galalin No because here you are shortening a cast time that was implemented because the skill is powerful, making sure that you cannot deal the dmg before you have casted the whole thing. Imagine if sorcs started launching instant crystal frags without having the proc and even managing to get a heavy attack in there, or puncturing sweeps dealing all the dmg ticks even without casting it. This doesn't fit into animation cancelling

This is not true.... you do not shorten the casttime of WB at all... please post a video showing the cast time is being changed

DK SCRUB OUT

I don't need to post it, I'm observing it on the OP's video (1 min 32). If there is no shortening, then it's ok in my books, but it definitely looks shortened in this video.

It does not change the time it take to land a wb what it does do is as Ezareth stated it adds a heavy attack that is not fully charged.... this is the way its always been. The only change is if you time it right you will only see the heavy attack animation.n.. that changed in the last patch

DK SCRUB OUT

Almost forgot to add my dk scrub

Let me rephrase one last time, I know it takes the same amount of time for the wb to land....... What bothers me is that you can add a medium/light/heavy whatever attack after you have started casting the WB, but before the WB lands, get me? Meaning that you are both casting a spell/skill that requires a cast time AND pulling off something else at the same time.
not ok.

That is not possible? Then i am 100% sure its caused by lag

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Have to agree with @Etaniel.

Clipping a light attack is one thing. Clipping a casted skill with a heavy attack is quite another. Getting a WB and a 2H heavy attack to land in the same second is insane burst and CC. And bear in mind none of it can be interrupted.

I'm not 100% cool with bash-cancelling attacks either, as Derra has said it turns a defensive weapon (S&B) with some fantastic passives and skills into a prime DPS weapon too. But at least that is only viable on S&B which as a setup has less weapon dmg and the total damage of the combo is about the same as 1 wrecking blow, but without the CC.

Is it a randomly occurring thing or is it reproducible 100% of the time?

If they're landing at the same time the heavy attack can't be fully charged. I only get 4-6K heavies to land with my Wrecking blows which is no different than light attacks. There is no major advantage to doing this, it's just a bugged animation.

WB is CC. Clipping WB, means I don't know I'm about to get CCed which for me is a major problem. I rarely block a heavy attack but will very frequently react to an incoming WB and clipping the skill denies me that opportunity.

Also 4k-6k medium attacks are much more damage than 2-3k light attacks (depending on wpn dmg ofc). Though I don't know why you wouldn't take the time to fully charge it especially as a DK with Molten Armaments.

Fully charged heavy takes ~2" and WB is 1" cast time. If you clip WB perfectly your full heavy will land about 1" after which is unavoidable if the target did not realise he was about to get CCed and has to waste a cooldown on CC break. With molten armaments your fully charged heavies can hit 10k easily (more if on low health) and as with any light/medium/heavy attack it can be followed by an instant skill like Executioner.

You are still landing 3 attacks in the space of 1", albeit with a 1" charge time for WB.

Fengrush regularly gets 7K light attacks and he doesn't heavy attack with his wrecking blows at all from when I asked him.

If you fully chage the heavy attack as was mentioned you lose DPS since wrecking blow does far more damage and it delays the time for the next one (unless you have 100 CPs into heavy weapons as well as 100 into mighty which means you're probably in the 800CP+ club and shouldn't really be included in this discussion.

DKs are probably the only people who can take advantage of this. The nature of heavy attacks is that you charge them up *before* reaching your target and then follow it up with other abilities.

Either way, it began in 1.7, was reported and ignored. I think it should be fixed, but I also think that there is no major exploitation of this bug going on right now as the advantage beyond having a jacked up animation isn't there.

If you're fighting someone with a 2 hander and are standing in range you should expect to get wrecking blowed. If blocking is your solution to fight these players then by all means block when in range.

7k Light Attack in PvP would require ~10k weapon damage and a crit, given that damage is halved by Battle Spirit.

You know yourself having played light armor staff builds, you can't just hold block when someone is in melee range to you now. You will go OOS in 3" flat. Depending on the situation I will block only when I absolutely have to (i.e. many opponents, a CC could kill me before I have time break it and escape) and most often I will Streak through my opponent. If my Streak is on an insane cost stack already and depending on my surroundings I might decide to just shield and CC break it.

All of the above however are reactions to what my opponent is doing. If he's not WBing me, I'll happily sit inside my mines and in melee range my frag procs are harder to dodge/block.

Like I said, it's very important for me to know when I'm about to be hit with a lot of damage + CC and clipping the animation of 1"-cast skill denies me that opportunity.

7k LA easy with empower buff

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I wouldn't bet my life on it as I haven't looked into it in a while, but those medium attacks hit harder for me than light attacks ever did. It doesn't matter if I'm on a caster or melee, partially charging your heavies (either before the instant attack or after a channeled attack like WB) definitely does more dmg than weaving light attacks.

They sure do. On the firestaff as well. The longer you hold the LMB the more damage it does. FTC records them as heavies but they are not fully charged heavies. It's what we call "medium" attacks.

Many people said that, but yet I have not seen ANY difference at all, maybe 200dmg difference.. can you show any pic with the big dmg difference of a Medium attack with a 2H and a Light Attack with a 2H?

Etaniel

Alcast wrote: »

That is not possible?

Didn't mean finishing your medium/light/heavy attack before the wrecking blow finishes, but starting it. And yes it is possible it's in you video and it's what I'vebeen talking about in this thread the whole time xD

Alcast

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That is not possible?

Didn't mean finishing your medium/light/heavy attack before the wrecking blow finishes, but starting it. And yes it is possible it's in you video and it's what I'vebeen talking about in this thread the whole time xD

xD haha

Ye starting it works. But that works with ANY other weapon too.

Resto HA combo with Frags, no problemo
Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Galalin

Alcast wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That is not possible?

Didn't mean finishing your medium/light/heavy attack before the wrecking blow finishes, but starting it. And yes it is possible it's in you video and it's what I'vebeen talking about in this thread the whole time xD

xD haha

Ye starting it works. But that works with ANY other weapon too.

Resto HA combo with Frags, no problemo
Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Exactly ^^^

DK SCRUB OUT

_Chaos

Galalin wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That is not possible?

Didn't mean finishing your medium/light/heavy attack before the wrecking blow finishes, but starting it. And yes it is possible it's in you video and it's what I'vebeen talking about in this thread the whole time xD

xD haha

Ye starting it works. But that works with ANY other weapon too.

Resto HA combo with Frags, no problemo
Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Exactly ^^^

That's the first post I've seen that you didn't end in "DK SCRUB OUT"
are you feeling okay?

Yonkit

I believe what @Etaniel is trying to say is that due to the changes of animations you can now cast something else halfway through the Wrecking Blow animation and be using a different ability or heavy/light attack DURINGthe animation for Wrecking Blow, but because of the new animations, bugs, exploits, ZoS being incompetent, you name it. The Wrecking Blow animation simply, STOPS, and the new animation for whatever you're doing takes over, while this doesn't shorten the cast time because the Wrecking Blow still hits after, it essentially lets you use another ability or weaves DURING a cast time ability which is not supposed to be possible.

It IS 100% reproduce-able and although it's not that big of a deal it's still a huge advantage, still, any intelligent player will just stun you during the WB animation and proceed to eat you alive. It's a bad skill developed for killing bad players.

Maulkin

Alcast wrote: »

Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Not sure you can clip frag animation with heavy attack, but I'll test and revert.

Alcast

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Not sure you can clip frag animation with heavy attack, but I'll test and revert.

Any skill with cast time works.

Maulkin

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Not sure you can clip frag animation with heavy attack, but I'll test and revert.

Any skill with cast time works.

Not really. Ranged abilities behave differently to melee.

Trying to animation cancel a hard cast of frags results (more often than not) in this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3qfcqYunCY

Alcast

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Not sure you can clip frag animation with heavy attack, but I'll test and revert.

Any skill with cast time works.

Not really. Ranged abilities behave differently to melee.

Trying to animation cancel a hard cast of frags results (more often than not) in this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3qfcqYunCY

Ye but that dude there did a LA not a HA combo? Nontheless strange that the dmg did not register lol
well try it with a Destro staff. We all know that Shock/Resto stuff is buggy and causes troubleee...doesnt even get boosted by Molten Armaments whereas Destro/Frost/2H/DW/Bow is.

I will also try it to check and see how it goes prolly tmr.

Etaniel

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Not sure you can clip frag animation with heavy attack, but I'll test and revert.

Any skill with cast time works.

Not really. Ranged abilities behave differently to melee.

Trying to animation cancel a hard cast of frags results (more often than not) in this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3qfcqYunCY

Actually I think the target takes the damage, but it doesn't show. It creates a health desync where if he reaches 9k health (the dmg your frag should have done) he will die even though his hp bar isn't empty

Galalin

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That is not possible?

Didn't mean finishing your medium/light/heavy attack before the wrecking blow finishes, but starting it. And yes it is possible it's in you video and it's what I'vebeen talking about in this thread the whole time xD

xD haha

Ye starting it works. But that works with ANY other weapon too.

Resto HA combo with Frags, no problemo
Destro HA combo with Frags, no problemo

Its not only Wblow HA

Exactly ^^^

That's the first post I've seen that you didn't end in "DK SCRUB OUT"
are you feeling okay?

Fixed... sorry to disappoint anyone

Ezareth

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

7k Light Attack in PvP would require ~10k weapon damage and a crit, given that damage is halved by Battle Spirit.

You know yourself having played light armor staff builds, you can't just hold block when someone is in melee range to you now. You will go OOS in 3" flat. Depending on the situation I will block only when I absolutely have to (i.e. many opponents, a CC could kill me before I have time break it and escape) and most often I will Streak through my opponent. If my Streak is on an insane cost stack already and depending on my surroundings I might decide to just shield and CC break it.

All of the above however are reactions to what my opponent is doing. If he's not WBing me, I'll happily sit inside my mines and in melee range my frag procs are harder to dodge/block.

Like I said, it's very important for me to know when I'm about to be hit with a lot of damage + CC and clipping the animation of 1"-cast skill denies me that opportunity.

This was during a Molag Kena fight that I was watching him on (as was my 4-6K medium attack) just to see what his DPS rotation was. Fengrush as far as I know runs with 5K weapon damage.

I agree that the animation of wrecking blow being clipped is stupid, but half the time blocking it gets you knocked back regardless etc, I find myself either canceling it by moving through the player or bolt escaping through them. With my Hardened ward I actually prefer to just eat it and enjoy the CC immunity many times as well.

All I'm arguing that is this isn't some crazy exploit and I doubt people are doing this to try to hide the animation, they're just trying to increase their damage as you do with any other animation cancelled attack.