Siphoning Attacks does not proc on Funnel Health/Sap Essence anymore

HakaiDo

Hi,

It seems Siphoning Attacks does not proc from either Funnel Health or Sap Essence any longer.
There is no 10% chance anymore to proc the ability or I am getting really *** unlucky with my procs...
It used to work through your block, now it seems you can't get any Stamina back while in block (and I am not talking about the regen part!)
It also seems you can only proc it when the mob is dieing, or maybe I am missing something else that restores Stamina when mobs are dieing.

ZOS, you need to take a look at Sihponing Attacks.

Cody

@CP5, remember what you told me about the NB heals? yeah, well, here ya go!:) one of the 2(and only one are burst btw and it sucks; refer to my comment on that thread for a refresher) are now bugged!:( then again this player is not using leeching strikes... still though

Cody

10% chance is low, but you should still be getting procs. If you are not getting procs at all, it is bugged:( best let ZOS know so they can fix it next patch

HakaiDo

I mean I was having 0 issues with my stamina in neither AOE or Single Target situations befor. It was nearly always on 100% and it is simply not giving me any Stamina back.

Sadly I cannot test it with Caltrops (I have heard they proc Siphonig Attacks) since I have not unlocked them yet. I am only missing 30k or so AP so maybe after the weekend.

Ok so Twisting Path definitly procs Sihponing Attacks and it procs it often. Currently testing a few abilities.

Cody

HakaiDo wrote: »

I mean I was having 0 issues with my stamina in neither AOE or Single Target situations befor. It was nearly always on 100% and it is simply not giving me any Stamina back.

Sadly I cannot test it with Caltrops (I have heard they proc Siphonig Attacks) since I have not unlocked them yet. I am only missing 30k or so AP so maybe after the weekend.

Ok so Twisting Path definitly procs Sihponing Attacks and it procs it often. Currently testing a few abilities.

I bet caltrops do proc it, but caltrops are expensive:(

CP5

Cody wrote: »

@CP5, remember what you told me about the NB heals? yeah, well, here ya go!:) one of the 2(and only one are burst btw and it sucks; refer to my comment on that thread for a refresher) are now bugged!:( then again this player is not using leeching strikes... still though

You act as if I have some sort of vendetta against nb's. This bug is probably from when ZOS changed the skill to an active, does it still proc on other spell damage correctly OP?

HakaiDo

No I have tanked fine since the update with the active.

It appears it can still proc it but the chance seems super low, as in 1% instead of 10%.

I could get a proc with Pierce Armor and as mentioned Twisted Path. Summon Shades does not give Stamina (dunno if it did befor)

Resipsa131

I run it as well on my aoe bar and have had some issues getting it to proc like it normally did I just thought I was getting unlucky

mrowmrif2

I am a NB tank and have done all trials and group dungeons. Siphoning attacks is a huge part of a NBs ability to sustain, especially a tank. Prior to IC it was widely considered that all DOTs and other skill usage would proc SA... Based on discussions here and on tamrielfoundry.com (of which I am a moderator and have monitored those discussions for over a month now), Siphoning Attacks is inconsistent and broken. How it seems to be working now is the first hit of DOTs like refreshing path and crippling grasp seem to activate it, but the future ticks do not... Caltrops however DOES continue to proc it, and there are reports that all ticks of twisting path do actually have a chance to proc it... Does that mean refreshing is broken?

We need ZOS to thoroughly test and, if truly not functioning as intended, to FIX this most critical skill! At the least, we need to be provided some clarity around which skills do or do not work with SA as the tooltip and previous functionality indicate they should... And is there a cooldown on procs like when it was a toggle, or has that been done away with now that the skill is active and costs magicka?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Cody

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

@CP5, remember what you told me about the NB heals? yeah, well, here ya go!:) one of the 2(and only one are burst btw and it sucks; refer to my comment on that thread for a refresher) are now bugged!:( then again this player is not using leeching strikes... still though

You act as if I have some sort of vendetta against nb's. This bug is probably from when ZOS changed the skill to an active, does it still proc on other spell damage correctly OP?

not at all, just trying to inform you of errors you made in your replies.

he/she said it procs on twisting path, so it may just be with certain abilities, and apparently while blocking.

Synozeer

Siphoning has never proced on anything but the first hit or first DoT (and it used to not proc at all on DoTs), except for Caltrops. I've tested it many times over the various patches.

Using an add-on such as CLS (Combat Log Statistics) will tell you exactly when it procs.

Fellwitch

I can confirm that this skill is not working for me either.

Shades does NOT proc and refreshing path only seems to work once per usage of the skill.

I do not have caltrops so I could not tell you if that works.

I do know that wrecking blow for 2h does proc it.

Can we please have someone look into this?

Thanks!

mrowmrif2

maysonet_ESO wrote: »

Siphoning has never proced on anything but the first hit or first DoT (and it used to not proc at all on DoTs), except for Caltrops. I've tested it many times over the various patches.

Using an add-on such as CLS (Combat Log Statistics) will tell you exactly when it procs.

If that is the case, it calls into question the inconsistency of the skills design in the first place... Why would caltrops work but path and shades not? How does that make any sense at all?

aidenmoore

Tested with my Refreshing Path, does not proc with the DoT only on initial tick. Switch the morph to Twisting Path. It is indeed working fine.

HIghwayRobberBill

ive also noticed it is not working as it did before IC . it still works on funnel health and pierce armor, but just not as frequently as it did before. i had just barely started NB tanking before dlc and was kinda figuring out my skills. so i know i could get a siphoning proc off of about 5 or so funnel healths/pierce armor and now i only get it after about 15 or so.

Fellwitch

So I am wondering -

will we get some response back from the developers or do we need to go through tech support?

Thank you

aidenmoore

That is what concern me. Lack of response from the official. At least show us that you acknowledge this issue.

aidenmoore

Have this bug fixed yet with the recent DLC? Anyone have tested it?

lonewolf26

While tanking yesterday I also felt the return of resources from sap essence +siphoning attacks was far less than normal. It appears that the return for light attacks was unaffected. That was what saved my run. Was a bug introduced in the proc effect?

hrothbern

I am half way done with quests in Orsinium (not the Arena) and so far Sap Essence, Funnel Health, Twisting Path and Caltrops seemed to proc normally for my feeling on Siphoning Attacks. Light attacks as well.

However... to be sure, also because I am considering using Mirage (Evasion buff) or even Hist Bark in the future (I am a NB tank)
I will start next week for 2-3 weeks some proper testing with addons to check with statistic large enough numbers to be able to say something less subjective about the proc rate.
I will test:

• Sap Essence: the proc chance
• Sap Essence: according to the Patch notes, Sap Essence heals are no longer dodged. I want to check that!
• Sap Essence: I always had the impression that the normal Stamina & Magicka Recovery was dodged as well. With the removal of heals dodged, I want to check if dodging with Mirage is really ok)
• Swallow Soul (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Funnel Health (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Twisting Path (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Refreshing Path (Should not proc on SA, but perhaps that changed)
• Caltrops, both morphs (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Destro ability Force Shock (does it proc 3x per attack, with the 3 elemental hits per attack)
• Stave base heavy weapon attacks (how many times do they proc per Heavy Attack)

If anybody has an attack that procs more than once per attack, from experience or from the logic of the tooltip, please come up with it
I can see if I can test that as well.

aidenmoore

I briefly tested it and it does not proc still but it should be since SA tooltip clearly state that 10% proc from all damage.

beamy93

hrothbern wrote: »

I am half way done with quests in Orsinium (not the Arena) and so far Sap Essence, Funnel Health, Twisting Path and Caltrops seemed to proc normally for my feeling on Siphoning Attacks. Light attacks as well.

However... to be sure, also because I am considering using Mirage (Evasion buff) or even Hist Bark in the future (I am a NB tank)
I will start next week for 2-3 weeks some proper testing with addons to check with statistic large enough numbers to be able to say something less subjective about the proc rate.
I will test:

• Sap Essence: the proc chance
• Sap Essence: according to the Patch notes, Sap Essence heals are no longer dodged. I want to check that!
• Sap Essence: I always had the impression that the normal Stamina & Magicka Recovery was dodged as well. With the removal of heals dodged, I want to check if dodging with Mirage is really ok)
• Swallow Soul (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Funnel Health (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Twisting Path (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Refreshing Path (Should not proc on SA, but perhaps that changed)
• Caltrops, both morphs (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Destro ability Force Shock (does it proc 3x per attack, with the 3 elemental hits per attack)
• Stave base heavy weapon attacks (how many times do they proc per Heavy Attack)

If anybody has an attack that procs more than once per attack, from experience or from the logic of the tooltip, please come up with it
I can see if I can test that as well.

Are you planning on posting the results here or starting a new thread because I am curious to know how this is working as well.

hrothbern

beamy93 wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

I am half way done with quests in Orsinium (not the Arena) and so far Sap Essence, Funnel Health, Twisting Path and Caltrops seemed to proc normally for my feeling on Siphoning Attacks. Light attacks as well.

However... to be sure, also because I am considering using Mirage (Evasion buff) or even Hist Bark in the future (I am a NB tank)
I will start next week for 2-3 weeks some proper testing with addons to check with statistic large enough numbers to be able to say something less subjective about the proc rate.
I will test:

• Sap Essence: the proc chance
• Sap Essence: according to the Patch notes, Sap Essence heals are no longer dodged. I want to check that!
• Sap Essence: I always had the impression that the normal Stamina & Magicka Recovery was dodged as well. With the removal of heals dodged, I want to check if dodging with Mirage is really ok)
• Swallow Soul (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Funnel Health (proc rate and dodged heals and dodged recoveries)
• Twisting Path (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Refreshing Path (Should not proc on SA, but perhaps that changed)
• Caltrops, both morphs (proc rate and dodged recoveries)
• Destro ability Force Shock (does it proc 3x per attack, with the 3 elemental hits per attack)
• Stave base heavy weapon attacks (how many times do they proc per Heavy Attack)

If anybody has an attack that procs more than once per attack, from experience or from the logic of the tooltip, please come up with it
I can see if I can test that as well.

Are you planning on posting the results here or starting a new thread because I am curious to know how this is working as well.

I will post it on this thread

the following thread on the recent change on the destro ability Force Shock could also implicate that SA only procs once now.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/229072/and-another-nerf-to-destruction-staff/p1

but the proof of the pudding is in the eating

Septimus_Magna

Siphon Attacks with Twisting Path + Crippling Grasp (both double dots) still works fine for my Sap Tank, getting mag/stam back pretty quickly, same for Veil of Blades ofc.

Jumper45

It works for my NB healer on PS4. But the proc rate seems kind of junky to me. I mean hitting 6 or so targets with sap essence you would think it would proc per cast but it only does every few casts.

hrothbern

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Siphon Attacks with Twisting Path + Crippling Grasp (both double dots) still works fine for my Sap Tank, getting mag/stam back pretty quickly, same for Veil of Blades ofc.

@Septimus_Magna.
thanks
yeah
forgot to list up Crippling grasp, for ranged fights

Jumper45 wrote: »

It works for my NB healer on PS4. But the proc rate seems kind of junky to me. I mean hitting 6 or so targets with sap essence you would think it would proc per cast but it only does every few casts.

@Jumper45

Did some Trophy grinding in IC today
I got the same impression... proc rate feels lower than 10%

but as said..,. I will do a proper testsomewhere the coming weeks to get statistical meaningfull numbers

Drax76

Isn't there also an internal/refresh timer within the proc mechanism? One which isn't shown to us lowly players.

timmayyyboy

It never seems to work for me either. Ive tried it with everything i can think of except caltrops cause i dont have that. I never see any kind of return come back to stam or magic pools.

hrothbern

Drax76 wrote: »

Isn't there also an internal/refresh timer within the proc mechanism? One which isn't shown to us lowly players.

It would be a blessing if all tooltips would be more transparent and note the internal Cool Down time.
However, a tooltip should also be concise.
Perhaps we see one day from ZOS a small specification sheet, we can mine into from the tooltip. Preferrably exactly the same tooltip that is given to the coding crew. With a concise tooltip, the spec can be a wall of paper if needed.

To the point:

There is an internal Cool Down of 1 second.

1. the next proc can only come 1 second after the last proc
2. you can never proc twice within that 1 second duration. (even if you have at the same time Twisting Path, Caltrops, Sap Essence on a mob of 6 adds, meaning 3x6 is 18 chances on 10% =180% chance to proc, with in principle a very good chance to proc several times, the number of procs per second is limited to 1 only. I did test that recently very thoroughly)

It can happen that there is now and then a phasing issue, causing to miss a proc, when the Cool Down time and the time between the two abilities is both 1 seconds. This does not happen very often. I consider this therefore as a bug.

I planned to get some good statistics on that, but need time to do that.

Meanwhile playing, I can say that the proc rate is between 8-10% for all abilities and attacks where intended. (also for Strife Morphs, Sap Essence, Twisting Path, Cripple, Caltrops)


EDIT added:
And because the number of procs is capped at 1 per second..... Depending on how you play, how often you have proc chances from two or more effects, the "true" chance that SA procs is always slightly below 10.0%.
Even if the phasing bug would not be there!

Rune_Relic

So its the cooldown to stop the ultra dps builds from having infinite resource on hit regen with AoE.

mrowmrif2

hrothbern wrote: »

Drax76 wrote: »

Isn't there also an internal/refresh timer within the proc mechanism? One which isn't shown to us lowly players.

It would be a blessing if all tooltips would be more transparent and note the internal Cool Down time.
However, a tooltip should also be concise.
Perhaps we see one day from ZOS a small specification sheet, we can mine into from the tooltip. Preferrably exactly the same tooltip that is given to the coding crew. With a concise tooltip, the spec can be a wall of paper if needed.

To the point:

There is an internal Cool Down of 1 second.

1. the next proc can only come 1 second after the last proc
2. you can never proc twice within that 1 second duration. (even if you have at the same time Twisting Path, Caltrops, Sap Essence on a mob of 6 adds, meaning 3x6 is 18 chances on 10% =180% chance to proc, with in principle a very good chance to proc several times, the number of procs per second is limited to 1 only. I did test that recently very thoroughly)

It can happen that there is now and then a phasing issue, causing to miss a proc, when the Cool Down time and the time between the two abilities is both 1 seconds. This does not happen very often. I consider this therefore as a bug.

I planned to get some good statistics on that, but need time to do that.

Meanwhile playing, I can say that the proc rate is between 8-10% for all abilities and attacks where intended. (also for Strife Morphs, Sap Essence, Twisting Path, Cripple, Caltrops)


EDIT added:
And because the number of procs is capped at 1 per second..... Depending on how you play, how often you have proc chances from two or more effects, the "true" chance that SA procs is always slightly below 10.0%.
Even if the phasing bug would not be there!

Right after they made it a nontoggle active skill this was not the case. On my NB tank i was getting ridiculous return from just refreshing/twisting path - we are talking never dropping below 75% resources in trash packs. Also sap was returning a ton as well. This was lovely from IC to Orsinium, but they monkeyed with it. Not only have the DOT rates changed but it seems the cooldown from the days of toggle is back like you said - 1 second for all activations, not just per source but ALL. Still easy to tank on NB but im working much harder now.

@Rune_Relic siphoning attacks was never really ideal on a DPS. Most magicka builds sustain very easily without it, and stamina builds need every skill slot to increase dps - most just use potions and shards from their healer to replenish stamina. A cooldown on siphoning attacks does not impact dps. It does however impact Maelstrom and any other solo content and tanking (!).