v2.2 BwB is on the way!

Scyantific

Working out fantastically for me.

Fully geared impeiral stam sorc in purple armor with 330 CP and I'm a murder machine.

mcurley

Scyantific wrote: »

Working out fantastically for me.

Fully geared impeiral stam sorc in purple armor with 330 CP and I'm a murder machine.

Oohh went with the purple, huh? What kind of stats does that put you at?

Rikumaru

I personally love this update, you are punished for making mistakes mid fight and you cant just stalemate it to wait for your group to come save you. Only problem is replacing gear every 5 levels, its gonna get damn annoying.

Scyantific

mcurley wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Working out fantastically for me.

Fully geared impeiral stam sorc in purple armor with 330 CP and I'm a murder machine.

Oohh went with the purple, huh? What kind of stats does that put you at?

At level 40?

33k Stam
21k Health
11k Magicka
3.3k Weapon Damage
2.2k Stamina Recovery

Gear sets were
-5x Hundings (lol this got scaled up too, +200 weapon damage)
-3x Ashen Grip on 2H bar/4 on Sword and Board
-Maul has Disease Enchantment, Sword and Board has Crushing Enchantment

On top of that I can still tank 6 people at once.

mcurley

Scyantific wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Working out fantastically for me.

Fully geared impeiral stam sorc in purple armor with 330 CP and I'm a murder machine.

Oohh went with the purple, huh? What kind of stats does that put you at?

At level 40?

33k Stam
21k Health
11k Magicka
3.3k Weapon Damage
2.2k Stamina Recovery

Gear sets were
-5x Hundings (lol this got scaled up too, +200 weapon damage)
-3x Ashen Grip on 2H bar/4 on Sword and Board
-Maul has Disease Enchantment, Sword and Board has Crushing Enchantment

On top of that I can still tank 6 people at once.

Nice man! Sounds like the changes worked out well for you... 6 people at once, though? Do these 6 people not know how to CC or something? I would like to see how my heros fare in fights against you at some point. I'm pretty amateur on my DK but I'm decent on my NB (although I'm still trying to get my shadow image morph which will help a ton for survival). If you don't mind I'll try hitting you up in-game sometime over the weekend. I'm NA DC.

I have 2 heros.

lvl 20 Dk:

5h/2l. I made him specifically for group play to be a tanky dd/healer.

5pc Spectre's Eye
3pc Torug's Pact
3pc Warlock (currently regen enchants but I may switch them for SD)

buffed

~1900 spell damage and 1400 magicka regen
~26k phys and 24k spell resist.

Health - 28k
Magicka - 32k
Stamina - 15k

lvl 42 NB:

Light armor

4pc Magnus
4pc Eyes of Mara.
I wish I could get some jewelery sets but they don't seem to exist at lvl42 and low lvl Warlock is a complete waste once you out level it. So I use Arcane jewelry with spell damage enchants.

buffed

~2700 spell damage and 1900 magicka regen
~17k spell and 15k phys resist

Health - 24k
Magicka - 33k
Stamina - 11k (which has proven problematic when I need to break free + roll)

For some reason my DK seems to be in a better place as far as magicka management even with 500 less regen.

I welcome any suggestions for improvement and I'd love to see what other people have done as well.

Let's see more setups, people!! Don't be shy now.

Scyantific

I survived by:

-Evasion
-Defensive Stance
-Boundless Storm
-Deep Slash/Brawler spam
-Having all of my Warrior CP thrown equally into Hardy and Elemental Defender

mcurley

Scyantific wrote: »

I survived by:

-Evasion
-Defensive Stance
-Boundless Storm
-Deep Slash/Brawler spam
-Having all of my Warrior CP thrown equally into Hardy and Elemental Defender

Ah, I don't know that CP life just yet, sounds fun though.

Cody

I like this change for the most part. Gear actually matters, and now people are punished for just standing in siege damage. We actually managed to repel a DC zerg with oils!!! This has not happened in a long time! its glorious!

laksikus

Well, even my lvl 20 temp has 39k magicka 15k stamina 25k hralth2,2k spelldamage and 2, 5k Regen,
With warlock+julianos.
Thats more that my v16 nb^^

Alucardo

Too many stam sorcs and Nightblades in BwB since the update. Gonna go enjoy exploring Wrothgar until this fad dies off.

Cody

Alucardo wrote: »

Too many stam sorcs and Nightblades in BwB since the update. Gonna go enjoy exploring Wrothgar until this fad dies off.

I play a mana DK:) Maybe you will find me if you play BwB tonight

Alucardo

Cody wrote: »

I play a mana DK:) Maybe you will find me if you play BwB tonight

Ah that's a breath of fresh air. Not too many of those around. Won't be around BwB for a bit because I'm rerolling a Mag DK myself, but will most likely level him in Wrothgar for a while.

josh.lackey_ESO

New battle level is crap. You get weaker as you level. You need to spend half your play time just re-crafting gear. Time to kill is way too fast. If this is the kind of PvP you want, why have you been in Blackwater -- it's just like vet PvP. The thing that made Blackwater unique was the normalized stats. If you throw that out, what is the point of even having the server? I want BWB back, where it's about build and skill rather than how good you were at twinking out your gear constantly.

Can we have a "traditional blackwater" server with the old battle level system, please? I just miss my game at this point.

evoga

What a terrible idea the battle levelling is.

BlackWater is the server for beginners to get used to pvp not for the expert players. It's meant to be fun not who can spend the most time crafting items will win.

JamilaRaj

evoga wrote: »

What a terrible idea the battle levelling is.

BlackWater is the server for beginners to get used to pvp not for the expert players. It's meant to be fun not who can spend the most time crafting items will win.

Do not worry, young padawan, spending time is just temporary measure. In phase two, once gear based meta is firmly in place, players who spend the most money buying items will win.

Valencer

The stats are just plain unrealistic.

My nonvet DK currently has 27k max health and 35k max stamina with blue on-level gear. For fun, I tried the exact same build on my VR15 DK and he gets 22k max health and 27k max stamina with blue vr15 gear. Weapon damage is lower too.

The real kicker here is they're both imperials and my nonvet DK doesnt have the imperial racial passives maxed yet either. If this is supposed to be "scaled to vr15" I just can't help but wonder what imaginary builds ZOS had in mind. I sure don't see the point in giving people superstats while levelling which they cant possibly reach when they get to max level... that's just not healthy for the game and basically means people can't really organically develop their own playstyle while levelling because all the numbers drop when battle levelling is eventually turned off at vr15.

If theyre going to keep this system for PvP at all they should tone the stats down to a realistic level. These arent vr15 stats and Im pretty sure my vet DK wont even come close to those stats with legendary vr16 gear.

Though, to be honest, the normalised stats we had previously were exactly what BwB needed and I'd still prefer we just get that system back (at least for nonvet). I know a lot of vets with endless crafting supplies are thoroughly enjoying 2/3-shotting newbies (me included, I guess) but it's not a good learning environment like this, only made worse by the fact people have such ridiculously high stats right now compared to what's realistic.

Alucardo

Valencer wrote: »

Though, to be honest, the normalised stats we had previously were exactly what BwB needed and I'd still prefer we just get that system back (at least for nonvet). I know a lot of vets with endless crafting supplies are thoroughly enjoying 2/3-shotting newbies (me included, I guess) but it's not a good learning environment like this, only made worse by the fact people have such ridiculously high stats right now compared to what's realistic.

On the note of crafting, I've actually seen "non vets" running around with the new Morkuldin set xD
That's a 9 trait crafted set. There was a DC newbie running around crying about invisible players. I had to explain to him what it was, because between a floating blade attacking him and 11.5k wrecking blows, he didn't know wtf was going on.
I was super excited for this update, but I'm not so sure any more. With a S+B Mag DK, I'm currently at 23k health, 31k magicka, 2.7k spell damage and 1.9k magicka regen.
Fortunately for other players he's low level, so I don't have any great skills or passives yet

mcurley

It is annoying that we need to upgrade our gear every 4 or so levels but besides that, everything about the change has been terrific in my opinion.

I'll take the annoyance of upgrading my gear every once in a while to have it actually mean something during fights. With the time I play, 4 levels takes about 2-3 weeks in Cyrodiil. Gear is not very expensive or hard to craft. 1000 or so gold can literally get you a complete set of green gear if you search the guild traders... if you choose to upgrade the quality even further it still isn't very expensive or time consuming. I even found a crafter who makes blue quality gear for 1000 gold/piece... which has been very affordable so far.

It was completely ridiculous to have heros who could focus on both offense and defense without having to sacrifice anything at all.

My assassin is actually an assassin now. He's built to have as much burst as possible while keeping enough regeneration to pull out of a situation that gets to be too much for him. I use him mainly to solo and gank people on the way to siege or to defend a siege. He fits his role perfectly. Before... I had a bursty assassin who was also as tough to bring down as a fully armored tank...

Since I enjoy the big fights too, I also made a tanky DK. He too has worked out exactly as I expected him to. He takes a serious beating before he dies, is a decent secondary healer, and can dish out consistent damage on the battlefield. He too fits his role perfectly.

Are the people complaining here trying to make a single hero to fit every role or something? Maybe FPSs are more your style than this game.

Olen_Mikko

I love the new BwB.

Good players are fun and really hard to play against and i punish those, who are lost from their horde.

I'd love to have duels with all factions together, on EU BwB.

josh.lackey_ESO

If you love the new Blackwater, why weren't you on vet all along? It's the same two-shot burst crap that was, I thought, the main reason people came to Blackwater in the first place. We liked normalized stats and we liked it being about actual skill, not how hard you could twink out your toon.

Give us Blackwater back, the rest of you should move on to vet where it's always been this "terrific" 3 second fight scenario.

A lot of people hung on to ESO because they loved the balanced PvP experience Blackwater offered with normalized stats. Yes, it's a minority, but still a significant number of people. We are not happy about this change and we want our game back. Can we please get a server with balanced stats again? Some of us are wondering whether it makes sense to even PvP anymore. This patch totally removed a unique part of the game that a lot of players liked -- and for no particular reason. I'd love to keep paying ZOS, but not when they take the fun out of the game! It should be possible to offer both kinds of PvP servers, then everyone is happy!

mcurley

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

If you love the new Blackwater, why were you on vet all along? It's the same two-shot burst crap that was, I thought, the main reason people blame to Blackwater in the first place. We liked normalized stats and we liked it being about actual skill, not how hard you could twink out your toon.

Give us Blackwater back, the rest of you should move on to vet where it's always been this "terrific" 3 second fight scenario.


A lot of people hung on to ESO because they loved the balanced PvP experience Blackwater offered with normalized stats. Yes, it's a minority, but still a significant number of people. We are not happy about this change and we want our game back. Can we please get a server with balanced stats again? Some of us are wondering whether it makes sense to even PvP anymore. This patch totally removed a unique part of the game that a lot of players liked -- and for no particular reason. I'd love to keep paying ZOS, but not when they take the fun out of the game! It should be possible to offer both kinds of PvP servers, then everyone is happy!

If you are dying in 3 seconds then you are doing something wrong. I questioned these complaints at first. I even tried to get into a situation where I died so fast that I had no chance at all. It has still not happened to either of my heros in BwB... and one of them is in 7pcs of light armor. If I get jumped by 6+ people then yea I usually die quite quickly.. but that should be expected, right? Other than getting ganked by a full group... the TTK is not bad at all. You just have to pay more attention and make fewer mistakes... which means you have to play more skillfully.

I think you might need to wear more armor, or use mitigation buffs, or use evasion... something extra to help your defenses.

I am not "twinked out" by any stretch of the imagination. My gear is blue quality and I have just about 70 CPs. I enjoyed BwB before the update but it is way better now. The fights are more competitive, counter-siege defenses are more effective, and we get to play our heros in the roles for which they were built.

I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but normalized stats do not belong in this type of game... diversity does.

Valencer

I'm surprised there's people here who actually enjoy getting AoE'd to death. Today I saw the first real train hit the field in BwB.
The scoreboard and taking/holding keeps feels just as pointless as in vet now, too. NPCs are a joke and 2 people spamming steel tornado with stacked weapon damage can flip a keep on their own. No stability anymore whatsoever. Off-hour capping is also moving to extreme levels.

I'm glad you enjoy it though. I think Ill go enjoy it in vet, where I at least gain CP and can use the VR16 character I know and love.

josh.lackey_ESO

mcurley wrote: »

I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but normalized stats do not belong in this type of game... diversity does.

I totally respect that you like the new system better. But when you talk about diversity, I feel like we had diversity before. If you liked normalized stats you had Blackwater. If you didn't, you could play on any of the other servers. Now there is only one way to play. We have different opinions on normalized stats, and that's fine. The game used to have options where we could both be happy playing the way we liked. Now there is only one kind of option, and I don't like it. I have spent, no exaggeration, over a thousand hours in Blackwater this year. I feel this game that I've been extremely devoted to is suddenly gone. It's not a small loss.

I am glad that other people are finding the game more enjoyable. I am trying really hard to adapt to the new mechanics. But every day, my desire to go to Cyrodiil diminishes. I just want my game back.

For what it's worth, my highest toon is v8. Before Orisinium, it was v4. I've done more PvE lately because I don't find PvP nearly as fun. Before the catch-up mechanic, I had about 60 CP. Now I have 150. I was never one of the guys with loads of CP who went to Blackwater so I'd have an "unfair" advantage to pwn some scrubs. I just liked the mechanics better. In a way it was more casual, but in another way, it took out the nitty-gritty details and left you with something more elegant. There wasn't much fine-tuning to do. With few exceptions, how well you did was based on your mastery of using the same basic set of abilities that everyone else had. Not hours spent grinding, not having a master crafter alt, not endlessly farming certain drops or digging through guild stores looking for just the right sets. You could just throw on the same junk you wore on your last toon and start over again.

For the record, I have a master crafter alt. I have the advantage of rolling around with new purple, fully-enchanted gear every 2 levels. I have stockpiles of sets at various levels, most of which were useless before. If anything I benefit from the new system, so it's not really butthurt or saltiness on my part.

Kutsuu

Look you do have sound reasoning for why you like the way blackwater blade worked. It makes sense. However your argument that non-vet players who want their stats to scale with their build and gear should just go play a V16 campaign "if they like to die in 3 seconds" is a bit silly. The desire to play in a non-vet campaign on non-vet characters is largely related to NOT having to face geared to the teeth VR16s. It's more enjoyable to play against other people who are also just leveling up, and while there might be a few min/maxed chars out there it's not nearly as prevalent as in a V16 campaign.

That said, the new system will be more appealing to the majority of players, and I'll try to explain why:

1. First and foremost, stats are now based on how you build your character. If you use magicka enchants and spend points in magicka because you are mostly using magicka-based skills, you now actually have a magicka pool that meets your needs. In the old BWB, you just about had to build hybrid to make full use of the generic stats, or you can just be a sub-par magicka build. If you're building for DPS with low HP, or as a tank with high HP you will finally see that reflected in PVP. I believe this helps new players to have realistic expectations of what their character is going to play like once in VR PVP.
2. Gear progression matters. I realize there can be arguments on both side of this, but generally people want gear progression. You'll probably hate it if you want to level 10-49 in PVP, but most players don't do that. They play PVE and hop into PVP as the desire comes on. Now they will feel the desire to tidy up their gear/enchants/etc before going into Cyrodiil, and the gear sets they craft or have crafted will actually matter.
3. There is no more ambiguity about what works and what doesn't when battle leveled. Before it was hard to determine what set bonuses and passives did and didn't work, and this HAD to be confusing to new players. As a veteran player, it was annoying to me that my build ideas didn't work and I had to google around to find out what set bonuses/abilities actually did work when battle leveled.

I understand that you miss the homogenized stats and want them back, but it was a crude and simplified system of battle leveling and the new one is far more in depth, customizable, and actually reflective of what the game plays like in PVE. It's very hard to argue that this wasn't a major improvement.

What they could have considered doing is adding a UI option to have traditional battle leveling or gear-scaled battle leveling. I think most people would choose the gear scaled version, but for the few who are stomping their feet over the change they'd be able to have their battle leveling back also.

SneaK

Double edged sword. Some people have made some great points at why BwB should have stayed the same, but others like the min/maxing thing and enjoy the change. I think personally the biggest factor now is that hybrids are absolutely gone with the new system. Some people had some pretty cool battle-leveled builds. New system makes sense, but ironically killed diversity for some people.

I think the idea of BwB being a old school campaign with the old 17/30/17 stats and other campaigns using the new system is the best solution.

Kutsuu

SneaK wrote: »

Double edged sword. Some people have made some great points at why BwB should have stayed the same, but others like the min/maxing thing and enjoy the change. I think personally the biggest factor now is that hybrids are absolutely gone with the new system. Some people had some pretty cool battle-leveled builds. New system makes sense, but ironically killed diversity for some people.

I think the idea of BwB being a old school campaign with the old 17/30/17 stats and other campaigns using the new system is the best solution.

In what way does the new battle leveling stop you from creating a hybrid? Mix/match your enchants and points spent evenly between stam/magicka, and invest a lot into health and you end up with similar stats. Now you have the CHOICE what your stats will be.

laksikus

cos the new battle leveling is ***^^

my lvl 20 temp has better stats than my v16 nb, and he doesnt even have golden gear or gpyhs :>
as stamina user you can reach 4k weapon damage easy.

its basically like vet anyway now, so it doesnt matter if there are v16 that wipe your ass cos of more experience and better gear, or some vets on nonvet chars that brought their crafted op gear to 2shot people^^

thats ridicolous, nothing difeerent from any vet campaign

PF1901

laksikus wrote: »

cos the new battle leveling is ***^^

my lvl 20 temp has better stats than my v16 nb, and he doesnt even have golden gear or gpyhs :>
as stamina user you can reach 4k weapon damage easy.

its basically like vet anyway now, so it doesnt matter if there are v16 that wipe your ass cos of more experience and better gear, or some vets on nonvet chars that brought their crafted op gear to 2shot people^^

thats ridicolous, nothing difeerent from any vet campaign

Was in for a surprise after having been absent for a few weeks and not having read about the changes to BWB. Nasty - got more or less one shotted left and right.

Not really understanding why this change was necessary. But well, it was fun as long as it lasted.

JamilaRaj

Kutsuu wrote: »

Look you do have sound reasoning for why you like the way blackwater blade worked. It makes sense. However your argument that non-vet players who want their stats to scale with their build and gear should just go play a V16 campaign "if they like to die in 3 seconds" is a bit silly. The desire to play in a non-vet campaign on non-vet characters is largely related to NOT having to face geared to the teeth VR16s. It's more enjoyable to play against other people who are also just leveling up, and while there might be a few min/maxed chars out there it's not nearly as prevalent as in a V16 campaign.

And why is that, hm?

Valencer

Meanwhile in BwB EU... yellow vet guild running an AoE train murdering anything that gets within 10 meters of them. These guys just wiped over and over to PUGs when they tried this crap months ago with the old battle levelling but now.... hoho.

Great success, this new battle levelling. Always thought BwB needed to be more like vet.