Cumulative cost on AoEs.

Joy_Division

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

Considering the average streak damage is 3k or so in pvp, lets say you got lucky with crits so 4k average damages... 200k is 50 people, good luck to hit that many targets with 1 streak, and if you do, then they deserve to die (eventhough in this case they wont, you need 5 streaks to kill all and ppl have the time to heal up/kill you before you do 5 streaks lol).
Not to mention that a group of 50 ppl will have mmh at least 8 healers, and healign springs spam on 50 people is what? 500k HPS? yeah good luck to kill that with your little streak and new ult generation system man.
At the time uncapped streak was OP because it was generating enough ultimate to do streak>negate>streak>negate>streak>negate etcetc. In 2.1 uncapped aoes won't do much really for a solo player, but it will make a huge difference for a group of 8-12 facing 24-48 man raids, thats for sure.

Streak is just to get in to the guts of the group, then it's something like impulse, ulti, proxi det, streak, streak, impulse, single target stuff.. etc

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

No, that's what makes it a good idea.

Besides, my large group has enough barrier, purges, healers, and steel tornado spammers to deal with one streaking sorcerer.

You are a good player but ... why do you think organized PvP guilds need a virtual monopoly on the free massive damage reduction they already have? If removing the caps has the sort of effect that you think will happen and prompt zergs to spread out in fear of you streaking in and killing them all, umm, isn't that what we want?

SkylarkAU

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

Considering the average streak damage is 3k or so in pvp, lets say you got lucky with crits so 4k average damages... 200k is 50 people, good luck to hit that many targets with 1 streak, and if you do, then they deserve to die (eventhough in this case they wont, you need 5 streaks to kill all and ppl have the time to heal up/kill you before you do 5 streaks lol).
Not to mention that a group of 50 ppl will have mmh at least 8 healers, and healign springs spam on 50 people is what? 500k HPS? yeah good luck to kill that with your little streak and new ult generation system man.
At the time uncapped streak was OP because it was generating enough ultimate to do streak>negate>streak>negate>streak>negate etcetc. In 2.1 uncapped aoes won't do much really for a solo player, but it will make a huge difference for a group of 8-12 facing 24-48 man raids, thats for sure.

Streak is just to get in to the guts of the group, then it's something like impulse, ulti, proxi det, streak, streak, impulse, single target stuff.. etc

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

No, that's what makes it a good idea.

Besides, my large group has enough barrier, purges, healers, and steel tornado spammers to deal with one streaking sorcerer.

You are a good player but ... why do you think organized PvP guilds need a virtual monopoly on the free massive damage reduction they already have? If removing the caps has the sort of effect that you think will happen and prompt zergs to spread out in fear of you streaking in and killing them all, umm, isn't that what we want?

Well I don't really think zergs will do that, especially ones filled with new players whom I'd prefer have a really fun experience that encourages them to play on. Also there are physical constraints on maps that force players in to tight confines such as keeps etc which would make keep takes significantly more difficult.

I do think something needs to change, but the complete removal is just shifting from one extreme to another imo.. I'd support gradual changes to the current AoE caps to see how it's going to effect the dynamic.

Barriers, purges, smart healing are another factor that is closely related to the issue as well.. but I think there's a depth of complexity in how everything interplays here that goes beyond my level of understanding.

dsalter

Remove AoE caps. make AoE abilities like impulse, magicka detonation, that new flying dagger split morph, cleave from 2hand, that execute part of soul assault morph, the passive "self destruct" part of the soul magic tree and soul trap (that one needs a buff so this is one way to do it) to be able to "echo" onto other nearby targets which means huge clusters can get wiped by the spammage of the cluster destroying spells

ToRelax

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

Considering the average streak damage is 3k or so in pvp, lets say you got lucky with crits so 4k average damages... 200k is 50 people, good luck to hit that many targets with 1 streak, and if you do, then they deserve to die (eventhough in this case they wont, you need 5 streaks to kill all and ppl have the time to heal up/kill you before you do 5 streaks lol).
Not to mention that a group of 50 ppl will have mmh at least 8 healers, and healign springs spam on 50 people is what? 500k HPS? yeah good luck to kill that with your little streak and new ult generation system man.
At the time uncapped streak was OP because it was generating enough ultimate to do streak>negate>streak>negate>streak>negate etcetc. In 2.1 uncapped aoes won't do much really for a solo player, but it will make a huge difference for a group of 8-12 facing 24-48 man raids, thats for sure.

Streak is just to get in to the guts of the group, then it's something like impulse, ulti, proxi det, streak, streak, impulse, single target stuff.. etc

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

No, that's what makes it a good idea.

Besides, my large group has enough barrier, purges, healers, and steel tornado spammers to deal with one streaking sorcerer.

You are a good player but ... why do you think organized PvP guilds need a virtual monopoly on the free massive damage reduction they already have? If removing the caps has the sort of effect that you think will happen and prompt zergs to spread out in fear of you streaking in and killing them all, umm, isn't that what we want?

Well I don't really think zergs will do that, especially ones filled with new players whom I'd prefer have a really fun experience that encourages them to play on. Also there are physical constraints on maps that force players in to tight confines such as keeps etc which would make keep takes significantly more difficult.

I do think something needs to change, but the complete removal is just shifting from one extreme to another imo.. I'd support gradual changes to the current AoE caps to see how it's going to effect the dynamic.

Barriers, purges, smart healing are another factor that is closely related to the issue as well.. but I think there's a depth of complexity in how everything interplays here that goes beyond my level of understanding.

I don't think new players would stack up so much that you can even hit more than 6 at once if they weren't told it is a good idea anyway. So, if they'd be told to not stack up in one spot with many people, they'll not do it.

Tankqull

Aoes especially pbaoes should have a casting time of 0.8-1sec - increasing costs is stupid but casting time and the option to rupt it would actually help.

Leandor

Limiting either of: damage, resource cost, spamability (by implementing cooldown), always favors huddling. The more players affect each target, the less spells are needed by each player to eliminate the target, thus enforcing a limit on spells one player can cast furthers zerging and exacerbates lag.

Zinaroth

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Or you know they could completely remove AoE caps and make everyone take full damage, then there wouldn't have to be so many calculation on the server side and smaller groups would have an easier time fighting groups that outnumber them.

When 1 player (me) can streak in to your large group and drop 200k damage in under 10 seconds, I wonder if you'll still think it's a good idea

Now imagine 4 players doing the same thing only now its multiplied out to 800k damage and there's nothing you can do about it.. People would be back on the forums in 24 hours begging for AoE caps to be put in - as they have in the past.

What is preventing the larger group from doing the same to the smaller group?
The reason AoE caps were insane back in the day is because we also had dynamic ulti generation.
I think you're accidentially taking that into account aswell.

I surely remember the day of stacking banners and swarm, that *** was ***.

I don't think that would be back simply by removing AoE caps.