What do I get?

OrphanHelgen

If I understood this correctly, all CP's earned after the current cap is reached, need tripple the xp to get.


Who receive a benefit from this?
The players who have not reached the CP cap, will benefit from this, since they notice only progression boost all the way; Enlightenment, lower xp needed and minimize the gap between himself and the players with reached CP cap.

Who recieve a benefit from this?
The players who have grinded 1k - 2k CP's. They got their CP's while they could earn them without having to need the tripple xp.

Who DO NOT recieve a benefit from this?
Me. I dont get any benefit at all. Because I currently have 502 CP, and are stuck in the middle of this, where I dont get any new CP, and wont earn with bonus xp, and I never grinded, so I wont keep large amount of CP's when cap is raised again.
And the funny part of this is, Im the perfect example of the players who should have been rewarded the most: The players that have payed since beta and stuck with all bugs without complaining, and the player who never grinded but played the game and earned the CP's for the exactly reason the CP was invented in the first place: To earn a progress in the game while playing normally (DSA, trials, cadvels quests, pvp, dailys).

Because we have a couple of grinders who earned a CP every 400k xp, the solution hits me (non-grinder) right in the face. I will now need to do tripple the xp, if not more, to get what the grinders got, who are the main reason for this cp problem in the first place.


Let me put a suggestion to the CP's, since this seams like a problem that some players have a couple of more recovery and dmg then others:
Let the cp's be something completely useless, but still fun to gain.
For example:

120 passive - Have a personal crafting station in housing.
120 passive - Allow you to have 2 of the colletion pets active at the same time
- Reduce the cost of fast travel
- Reduce time you can bite with werewolf and vampire


.. You see my point. Something not gamebreaking for leaderboards or PVP, but still fun to earn.


Edit:

So you need 33k xp to earn your very first CP, but the last 3600th CP will need 2,7k million xp to get.
Since you need more then 3x a veteran level xp to get from 3599cp to 3600, there should be a high reward for getting this, but the stats from earning this is not even noticeable. For me, I need to earn even more xp, since I am already spot on the cap.

DaveMoeDee

Any change will always screw someone.

Benefits me though! I stopped playing 4 months after launch and came back for ESOTU. Haven't spent a cent yet. I have crafted some Psijic Ambrosia but never bothered to use them. I am at about 145 CP.

Good thing I didn't waste my money on a sub leveling myself and collecting CP when I can catch up post Orsinium!

nimander99

CHEESE!

OrphanHelgen

nimander99 wrote: »

CHEESE!

I like cheese.. I would be happy if I got that :-)

Francescolg

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Because I currently have 502 CP

Imo, with 500 CP you're already in the upper 1/10th of all players and far above the average.
If you are willed to accept this... we can discuss, if not, than no discussion

The CP system is not balanced, because some ways to play the game are not as much rewarding as others and that is why it's not balanced. I will not work out every example for you but, if you did "old classic pvp", you'd have had MUCH LESS CP than a guy running the 'proper' PvE dungeons every evening (CP focused way to play).

We've warned ZOS about 'that gap' over half a year ago and everything they did was: "rooooonf" and "ZZzzZ zZzz zzZ", so they kept quiet and it is their own fault, not to have listened to player's concerns on balance, especially about the uneven ways to earn CPs. So, now, half a year later, everyone gets what he deserves!

Even now, at this moment, people are farming CPs in the right spots in IC. The problem is, that a huge part of players, who are just doing their gold&silver and maybe some trials, or lots of casual-pvp, will make only 0-2 CP this evening, playing the game "The way they like to play the game", while the CP-farmers will make 2-10 CP this evening, is this balance?

CPs, as a concept of progression i.g., are like a game with no level-caps. No caps means more troubles, imo. Sorry, for all that text

OrphanHelgen

Francescolg wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Because I currently have 502 CP

Imo, with 500 CP you're already in the upper 1/10th of all players and far above the average.
If you are willed to accept this... we can discuss, if not, than no discussion

I can tell you, I've also been 'here' since the early access of this game and I play nearly every day but I only got 400 CP.
The problem is that the whole CP-system (and especially the ways to earn them!!!) is FAR from balanced: some ways to play ESO offer MUUUUCH more CP than other ways to play ESO.

The CP system is not balanced, because some ways to play the game are not as much rewarding as others and that is why it's not balanced. I will not work out every example for you but if you did "old classic pvp" you'd have MUCH LESS CP than a guy running the 'proper' PvE dungeons every evening, that is why it's not been balanced.

We've warned ZOS about that over half a year ago and everything they did was "rooooonf", they kept quiet and it is their own fault, not to have listened to player's concerns on balance, especially about the ways to earn CPs. So, now, half a year later, everything that will happen is arbitrary because it's ZOS.
Not our fault!...

Even now, at this moment, people are farming CPs in the right spots in IC. The problem is, that a huge part of players, who are just doing their gold&silver and maybe some trials, will have made only 1-2 CP this evening, playing the game "The way they like to play the game", while the CP-farmers will make 2-10 CP this evening, thanks to ZOS

If I dont earn much cp's now when reached the cap due to the tripple xp needed, I will be on the same level as the players that played much less then me. If I then stop playing for a while after the new cap will come in the next dlc, the players with less game time then me, will have more CP's then me, since they constant have gotten a CP boost. Is this fair?

Gidorick

This "unfairness" is why the CP system needs a greater change than a cap and catch-up. Both of those mechanics are fine but changing CPs so that they function a bit differently... concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1

UrQuan

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Because I currently have 502 CP

Imo, with 500 CP you're already in the upper 1/10th of all players and far above the average.
If you are willed to accept this... we can discuss, if not, than no discussion

I can tell you, I've also been 'here' since the early access of this game and I play nearly every day but I only got 400 CP.
The problem is that the whole CP-system (and especially the ways to earn them!!!) is FAR from balanced: some ways to play ESO offer MUUUUCH more CP than other ways to play ESO.

The CP system is not balanced, because some ways to play the game are not as much rewarding as others and that is why it's not balanced. I will not work out every example for you but if you did "old classic pvp" you'd have MUCH LESS CP than a guy running the 'proper' PvE dungeons every evening, that is why it's not been balanced.

We've warned ZOS about that over half a year ago and everything they did was "rooooonf", they kept quiet and it is their own fault, not to have listened to player's concerns on balance, especially about the ways to earn CPs. So, now, half a year later, everything that will happen is arbitrary because it's ZOS.
Not our fault!...

Even now, at this moment, people are farming CPs in the right spots in IC. The problem is, that a huge part of players, who are just doing their gold&silver and maybe some trials, will have made only 1-2 CP this evening, playing the game "The way they like to play the game", while the CP-farmers will make 2-10 CP this evening, thanks to ZOS

If I dont earn much cp's now when reached the cap due to the tripple xp needed, I will be on the same level as the players that played much less then me. If I then stop playing for a while after the new cap will come in the next dlc, the players with less game time then me, will have more CP's then me, since they constant have gotten a CP boost. Is this fair?

In all honestly, any catch-up mechanism is always going to be unfair to someone. You (and others in your situation) kind of drew the short stick on this one.

OrphanHelgen

Gidorick wrote: »

This "unfairness" is why the CP system needs a greater change than a cap and catch-up. Both of those mechanics are fine but changing CPs so that they function a bit differently... concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1

Thanks for the link. I will read your post carefully. And on behalf of the ESO community, thank you for your effort on the suggestions.

OrphanHelgen

They have all theese for catch up:
Enlightenment
The lower stat value for each champion point spent.

Then the new things on top of that:
Increase xp need the more CP you have
CP season cap
Tripple xp needed for a CP when above the cap

This is no doubth, no discussion, too much in favor for some players. Let me ask again what my title says, What do I get?

OrphanHelgen

Let me add, that the grinders are the reason all this is a problem. And they get away with it.

Qyrk

Whatever catch u mechanisms and CP cap they implement will always place someone at a disadvantage.

OrphanHelgen

Qyrk wrote: »

Whatever catch u mechanisms and CP cap they implement will always place someone at a disadvantage.

Its ok with a catch up mechanism, but to stop me from earning xp is not acceptable.

F7sus4

So, basically, all 500CP+ people - grind your asses now until you still may.

Qyrk

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

Whatever catch u mechanisms and CP cap they implement will always place someone at a disadvantage.

Its ok with a catch up mechanism, but to stop me from earning xp is not acceptable.

It's not stopping you, it's slowing you down. I sympathize but to fully state that you will not be gaining exp for your CP progression is downright incorrect. I will be someone that will be affected to the slower exp gain towards CP progression, but it's not and will not stop me from gaining CP post Orsinium

OrphanHelgen

Qyrk wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

Whatever catch u mechanisms and CP cap they implement will always place someone at a disadvantage.

Its ok with a catch up mechanism, but to stop me from earning xp is not acceptable.

It's not stopping you, it's slowing you down. I sympathize but to fully state that you will not be gaining exp for your CP progression is downright incorrect. I will be someone that will be affected to the slower exp gain towards CP progression, but it's not and will not stop me from gaining CP post Orsinium

its already too insane amount of xp needed to gain the last once.

2,7 million xp to earn your last cp is insane already, and its not game changing at all. The fact that I will be needing tripple the xp just because I am on the season cap, is again too much.

Thats one of my points, if its really that game breaking to have some more CP then other, the CP bonuses should be something that have nothing to do with the game playstyle itself.

Sausage

If this helps new and casuals to stay its worth it, if it doesnt, it was waste of time. Im looking forward to seeing it. Also they should do something for old players who've left and returning players.

OrphanHelgen

Sausage wrote: »

If this helps new and casuals to stay its worth it, if it doesnt, it was waste of time. Im looking forward to seeing it. Also they should do something for old players who've left and returning players.

But what about those players who never left? Again I ask my title, What do I get?

Sausage

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

If this helps new and casuals to stay its worth it, if it doesnt, it was waste of time. Im looking forward to seeing it. Also they should do something for old players who've left and returning players.

But what about those players who never left? Again I ask my title, What do I get?

Ive seen thousand of games dying because they just give it all to vets and no-lifers, they basically scare everyone away (How to screw up PVP 101, give OP stuff to no-lifers, they play 24/7 and kill everyone) and when they leave, the game is dead. Its better to build the game for all, new, casuals and vets and this game might see its 10 year anniversary.

OrphanHelgen

Sausage wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

If this helps new and casuals to stay its worth it, if it doesnt, it was waste of time. Im looking forward to seeing it. Also they should do something for old players who've left and returning players.

But what about those players who never left? Again I ask my title, What do I get?

Ive seen thousand of games dying because they just give it all to vets and no-lifers, they basically scare everyone away (How to screw up PVP 101, give OP stuff to no-lifers, they play 24/7 and kill everyone) and when they leave, the game is dead. Its better to build the game for all, new, casuals and vets and this game might see its 10 year anniversary.

Yes good point and I totally agree..
But in this case, if you have 2000cp or 2500cp, its not that big of difference as you think.
And new players will catch up since the xp for the first CP's is as low as 30k compared to 400k. Immagine this as enlightenment as well, and maybe xp boost.

When Im currently are at the cap and need tripple the base xp to get a champion point.

The reason this is a problem, is because we have grinders. They made CP season CAP for this, but still, the CP grinders will have earned all their CP's of the cost of 400k xp, while others non-grinders will need from 3x to 6x the xp needed to get it.

So I dont understand, when all this cp filter, why cant I earn a cp in a normal rate, just because I am on the current CP cap?

Sausage

Ive suggested housing, its cool, but nothing too cool or advantageous to others to whine, but I know for sure, some people arent happy with this, they say the reward just aint worth the grind, some people see grind = advantage, but thats why we have Shoulder and Helmet combo and this sick RNG.

BabeestorGor

You get the benefit of getting as much benefit from CP as people who've earned double the amount you have and you can still keep earning more for when the cap goes up. Unlike the people who have twice as many CP as you you aren't losing anything. I'd be a lot more annoyed if I was one of them than if I was you.

kevlarto_ESO

This is an mmo, it is not always about "I" or "ME" it is what's best for the game over all and the thousands of other players, and yes sometimes folks like the OP will fall into that crack of this is not doing me any good, I understand that and it does suck, if they would have done the cp system as horizontal progression not vertical progression we would not have this problem of a power gap, players would not be trivializing the pve content of the game or getting huge advantages over players in pvp, plus it is a balancing nightmare for the dev's , I will be effected as well but I will still play get my cp's as they come be it slower, it is what it is, a bad system not very well thought out.

OrphanHelgen

BabeestorGor wrote: »

You get the benefit of getting as much benefit from CP as people who've earned double the amount you have and you can still keep earning more for when the cap goes up. Unlike the people who have twice as many CP as you you aren't losing anything. I'd be a lot more annoyed if I was one of them than if I was you.

This is actually wrong.
The once with twice my champion points, earned them each every 400.000 xp. That is way lower then how it will be next patch.

BabeestorGor

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

BabeestorGor wrote: »

You get the benefit of getting as much benefit from CP as people who've earned double the amount you have and you can still keep earning more for when the cap goes up. Unlike the people who have twice as many CP as you you aren't losing anything. I'd be a lot more annoyed if I was one of them than if I was you.

This is actually wrong.
The once with twice my champion points, earned them each every 400.000 xp. That is way lower then how it will be next patch.

Yes, but those cheaply earned CP are useless to them after the patch.

OrphanHelgen

BabeestorGor wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

BabeestorGor wrote: »

You get the benefit of getting as much benefit from CP as people who've earned double the amount you have and you can still keep earning more for when the cap goes up. Unlike the people who have twice as many CP as you you aren't losing anything. I'd be a lot more annoyed if I was one of them than if I was you.

This is actually wrong.
The once with twice my champion points, earned them each every 400.000 xp. That is way lower then how it will be next patch.

Yes, but those cheaply earned CP are useless to them after the patch.

They will have them all cheap earned by the next seaon cap tho

SirDopey

Someone get this man a tissue!

But in all seriousness you're going to be earning points while you play - so by the time the cap is lifted you'll be maxed out anyway. And, if you so decide to take a break from the game, you'll be able to "catch up".

Qyrk

"This thread had derailed to OP stating that people got their 502+ CP before orsinoum cheaper than what I would be getting it for, therefore i'm entitled to get it cheaper even after orsinium launch because I've been here since the beginning..."


Is that a close representation? Smh

OrphanHelgen

Qyrk wrote: »

"This thread had derailed to OP stating that people got their 502+ CP before orsinoum cheaper than what I would be getting it for, therefore i'm entitled to get it cheaper even after orsinium launch because I've been here since the beginning..."


Is that a close representation? Smh

I am sorry but I dont have English as main language, and didnt quite understand what you ment.
I am pretty sure my points are clear tho:

A new player will earn towards 500cp quick. The current grinders with 1k cp+, have earned their cp cheap (400k xp).
The players with spot on the cap with 500cp ish, will earn the future CP much slower. The complete total xp needed for 3600 CP at the end, will be least rewarded for the current 500CP players, then it will be for the one that already earned them for less xp, and the players who will start earning them now.

I dont have problems with people catching up, but its everything around this situation, specially that I will need tripple the base xp to earn a future CP.

Correct me if I have missunderstood this situation, but if I have not missunderstood, then this current change is straight out crap!

FlicksZ

I think even though you obviously dislike the intended cap and its effects, you make great cases for it.

Qyrk

You are incorrect Orphan. There WILL be people that haven't reach 501 that will require more exp than the current system of 400k. So to say that people that haven't reach the cap will get to the cap easier is incorrect (you will require more than 400k at 338(?) CP onwards)
.

I suggest you look at this:http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2333557/#Comment_2333557

This thread is FULL of players thatade charts/excel/graphs to fully explain how the penalty works.