Let's try this again.... Stamina Sorcerer direct damage morph.

Huggalump

The Problem

Here's my stamina Sorc bar:

1 - Rally
2- Executioner
3- Wrecking Blow
4- Critical Charge
5 - Bound Armaments
Ult - Flawless Dawnbreaker

I really appreciate the buffs from IC. 20% stam regen is noticable. I wish we didn't have to make our class even more boring to play by adding a toggle to both bars... but it is nice. Thundering presense, I like a lot more than I expected! It's pretty rad. The weapon damage from Sorc skills is nice... I just wish I could use it.

The main thing stam sorcs want is to feel like a sorc while still playing Stamina.

The Solution

Change either crystal blast or mage's wrath to an instant cast, melee range stamina morph. Most abilities like this also have some interesting proc. Here's a couple ideas

1) Refreshes thundering presence if thundering presence is active (how rad does this sound?? This is definitely my preferred one)

2) Allows next bolt escape to take stamina instead of magicka

3) Reduces targets armor/magic resistance

4) Snares or provides user with movement speed

5) If you hit a target three times, stuns the target or procs a daedric mine under the target.

6) Kills everyone of opposing factions in Cyrodiil, reaches into their banks and steals all their Tel Var stones. This is open to slight adjusting.

Any other ideas for interesting procs?

@ZOS All this stam sorc wants for Christmas is to actually feel like a stamina using sorc instead of a stamina using neutral class.

Xeven

Magicka Sorc here. I approve of these morphs.

Xeven

What about a physical melee range mirror image of frags? That would be so awesome I might actually roll a stam sorc.

SturgeHammer

I've thrown this idea out on other threads, but I would like to see an alteration to Crit Surge that would allow it to be reactivated to unleash a powerful instant melee attack. The casting of the initial buff would cost magicka, but the reactivation would cost stamina (so that it scales off weapon damage) and consume the surge buffs.

EDIT: The cost to this is steep and not spammable, so it would make sense for it to be as powerful as Wrecking Blow and apply a potent debuff to the enemy.

Xeven

SturgeHammer wrote: »

I've thrown this idea out on other threads, but I would like to see an alteration to Crit Surge that would allow it to be reactivated to unleash a powerful instant melee attack. The casting of the initial buff would cost magicka, but the reactivation would cost stamina (so that it scales off weapon damage) and consume the surge buffs.

EDIT: The cost to this is steep and not spammable, so it would make sense for it to be as powerful as Wrecking Blow and apply a potent debuff to the enemy.

I don't like it because it uses up two global cooldowns every time you use it. The damage would have to be through to roof to justify using it over two other skills.

This is the same reason Spectral Bow sucks.

Sarousse

We're the only class without a direct damage skill stamina morph. It's about time you give us one.

SturgeHammer

Xeven wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

I've thrown this idea out on other threads, but I would like to see an alteration to Crit Surge that would allow it to be reactivated to unleash a powerful instant melee attack. The casting of the initial buff would cost magicka, but the reactivation would cost stamina (so that it scales off weapon damage) and consume the surge buffs.

EDIT: The cost to this is steep and not spammable, so it would make sense for it to be as powerful as Wrecking Blow and apply a potent debuff to the enemy.

I don't like it because it uses up two global cooldowns every time you use it. The damage would have to be through to roof to justify using it over two other skills.

This is the same reason Spectral Bow sucks.

Yep, if they implemented this, I would want it to be the single most devastating melee attack on the game.

The upside though is that you choose when to activate it, so if you don't need the attack in every scenario it still functions as it does now.

Derra

I want a magica instant dd too.

Actually i want both

cschwingeb14_ESO

Daedric tomb is a great one to change to stam. Make it melee range, targeted, same general effect and damage, lowered cost, and only 1 "mine" that hits the target on cast.

Before anyone complains about a spamable root, keep in mind that ambush does the exact same thing. 1s root on players, hits hard and grants empower too.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

I want a magica instant dd too.

Actually i want both

this
and mages wrath would be predestined for it as it is allready instant. and could be easily tweaked by redistributing parts of the proc dmg into its base dmg to match the dps of force puls while out of executioner range and keep its current dmg while in executioner range.

k2blader

If stamina gets an instant frags, magicka should too.

Huggalump

Derra wrote: »

I want a magica instant dd too.

Actually i want both

If you feel magicka should get an instant cast frags, make a thread about it!

This thread is about stamina sorcs.

@k2blader @Tankqull @Derra

Huggalump

plx

Mettaricana

Just give use a stam procing crystals and ill be cool with sorc for life and maybe make pets scale on higher stat also make a stanina scaling ward. And a point blank endless fury falcon punch finisher

Birdovic

Mettaricana wrote: »

Just give use a stam procing crystals and ill be cool with sorc for life and maybe make pets scale on higher stat also make a stanina scaling ward. And a point blank endless fury falcon punch finisher

Just as I saw you mentioning pets scale on stamina(if highest stats, absolutly agree), I I immediately thought of that new "great" set introduced with Orsinium.
Restores 1200~ health and stamina when pet hits.
The 2,3,4 Set piece bonuses of that set are stamina and weapon damage, so making it scale on max stat instead should make that set interesting maybe

Huggalump

Mettaricana wrote: »

Just give use a stam procing crystals and ill be cool with sorc for life and maybe make pets scale on higher stat also make a stanina scaling ward. And a point blank endless fury falcon punch finisher

The idea of a stam procing crystals seemed to be popular before IC dropped, but I was never down with it. Due Bound Armaments, our ability bar is already too limited. I don't know how i'd even fit crystals + a stam direct damage ability onto the bar.

Birdovic

@Huggalump

The idea Always was popular

You could put it on your Second bar or use an overload bar instead and put it there^^
But guess you have The Same Problem As Me: sticking to a Setup because you Are used to it and deem every ability too necessary to a Point you dont want to take them off The skillbar anymore right

I could Imagine (depending on How that stam Version is Done) As a replacement for executioner, there just has to be Something to make up for The Weapon dmg increase AND The Execution.

Example for stam Version: 35% Chance to Instant proc with +20% dmg. Deals up to 100% extra dmg if Enemy Health is below 50%, knocks down Enemy. Combining that with a Wreckingblow Should still hurt and allow for some burst Potential As exchange for executioners higher...execute dmg, since WB and new shard could hit in Almost Same Second(Followed by Dawnbreaker Maybe?).
Since it still does knockdown, it could get interesting with other weapons than 2h, too.

Values in The example are just ideas and can be adjusted.

OrphanHelgen

Then give DK the same in that case.

olsborg

All classes need instant casts, not only nbs can have this. For the love of meridia!

Asmael

As much as people would love to see abilities feel specific roles, the way stam DKs want a stam whip, the way stam sorcs and even magicka sorcs want a direct DD, or even how people want either stam / mag morph of X ability, because otherwise "they can't just use the skills they want if they go either stam or magicka" (Rapid maneuvers, Vigor, a magicka version of Blocking, just to cite a few).

I am sorry, but I will not support this. You don't want everyone to have a mobility ability, a self-healing, a direct DD, a dot, a buff, or whatever set of skills that support a build that will, in the end, make all builds the very same replicata, just having some with a "stamina" tag, while others have a "magicka" tag.

The same way people ask for magicka DKs to have an execute ability, or even an escape ability, I'll ask you this: did magicka DKs had this in 1.5? What about magicka templars?

They didn't, yet both were viable. What changed was the meta that made those classes less viable, because you currently have to rely on mobility and escape mechanisms.

Stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast ability, the same way stam DKs can do without a stam whip. You have workarounds, you have constraints on each class, and what allows build diversity is to actually work within those constraints.

Instead of changing classes, and the constraints linked to them and type of abilities they have access to, you should be changing the meta to make all classes viable, so that stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast DD.

Take note that I'm not against changing abilities to better help a general theme. What I'm against is giving every possible option to all classes. What make a class "balanced" is that said class does not have access to everything.

A templar does not have mobility, but what other class has an instant cast ranged burst heal?

A sorc does not have direct self-healing, but have shields and mobility to play around this.

I do not take weapon skills into account because we're interested in class skills here. If we wanted to do a blend game where there's but one class and everyone has access to everything, we'd see just 1 build with slight variations, and this is something that has to be avoided.

TL;DR: play around the constraints to adapt your build, and ask ZoS to change the meta so that all classes can work around some type of skills lacking.

Huggalump

Asmael wrote: »

As much as people would love to see abilities feel specific roles, the way stam DKs want a stam whip, the way stam sorcs and even magicka sorcs want a direct DD, or even how people want either stam / mag morph of X ability, because otherwise "they can't just use the skills they want if they go either stam or magicka" (Rapid maneuvers, Vigor, a magicka version of Blocking, just to cite a few).

I am sorry, but I will not support this. You don't want everyone to have a mobility ability, a self-healing, a direct DD, a dot, a buff, or whatever set of skills that support a build that will, in the end, make all builds the very same replicata, just having some with a "stamina" tag, while others have a "magicka" tag.

The same way people ask for magicka DKs to have an execute ability, or even an escape ability, I'll ask you this: did magicka DKs had this in 1.5? What about magicka templars?

They didn't, yet both were viable. What changed was the meta that made those classes less viable, because you currently have to rely on mobility and escape mechanisms.

Stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast ability, the same way stam DKs can do without a stam whip. You have workarounds, you have constraints on each class, and what allows build diversity is to actually work within those constraints.

Instead of changing classes, and the constraints linked to them and type of abilities they have access to, you should be changing the meta to make all classes viable, so that stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast DD.

Take note that I'm not against changing abilities to better help a general theme. What I'm against is giving every possible option to all classes. What make a class "balanced" is that said class does not have access to everything.

A templar does not have mobility, but what other class has an instant cast ranged burst heal?

A sorc does not have direct self-healing, but have shields and mobility to play around this.

I do not take weapon skills into account because we're interested in class skills here. If we wanted to do a blend game where there's but one class and everyone has access to everything, we'd see just 1 build with slight variations, and this is something that has to be avoided.

TL;DR: play around the constraints to adapt your build, and ask ZoS to change the meta so that all classes can work around some type of skills lacking.

I appreciate the long, thought out post, but my post can explain why I disagree very briefly. What we're asking for is not a homogenizing thing. We're asking for a way for our class to deal damage.

NB can cloak, sorcs are mobile, DKs are tanky, Templars can regen resources. These are some of the things that make the classes have unique flavor. However, what should NOT give classes unique flavor is "This class can cause damage, this class cannot." That's just poor design.

Cathexis

+1.

How about a 5% chance to disintegrate for 20k ^_^

Cathexis

Huggalump wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

As much as people would love to see abilities feel specific roles, the way stam DKs want a stam whip, the way stam sorcs and even magicka sorcs want a direct DD, or even how people want either stam / mag morph of X ability, because otherwise "they can't just use the skills they want if they go either stam or magicka" (Rapid maneuvers, Vigor, a magicka version of Blocking, just to cite a few).

I am sorry, but I will not support this. You don't want everyone to have a mobility ability, a self-healing, a direct DD, a dot, a buff, or whatever set of skills that support a build that will, in the end, make all builds the very same replicata, just having some with a "stamina" tag, while others have a "magicka" tag.

The same way people ask for magicka DKs to have an execute ability, or even an escape ability, I'll ask you this: did magicka DKs had this in 1.5? What about magicka templars?

They didn't, yet both were viable. What changed was the meta that made those classes less viable, because you currently have to rely on mobility and escape mechanisms.

Stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast ability, the same way stam DKs can do without a stam whip. You have workarounds, you have constraints on each class, and what allows build diversity is to actually work within those constraints.

Instead of changing classes, and the constraints linked to them and type of abilities they have access to, you should be changing the meta to make all classes viable, so that stam sorcs can do without a direct, instant cast DD.

Take note that I'm not against changing abilities to better help a general theme. What I'm against is giving every possible option to all classes. What make a class "balanced" is that said class does not have access to everything.

A templar does not have mobility, but what other class has an instant cast ranged burst heal?

A sorc does not have direct self-healing, but have shields and mobility to play around this.

I do not take weapon skills into account because we're interested in class skills here. If we wanted to do a blend game where there's but one class and everyone has access to everything, we'd see just 1 build with slight variations, and this is something that has to be avoided.

TL;DR: play around the constraints to adapt your build, and ask ZoS to change the meta so that all classes can work around some type of skills lacking.

I appreciate the long, thought out post, but my post can explain why I disagree very briefly. What we're asking for is not a homogenizing thing. We're asking for a way for our class to deal damage.

NB can cloak, sorcs are mobile, DKs are tanky, Templars can regen resources. These are some of the things that make the classes have unique flavor. However, what should NOT give classes unique flavor is "This class can cause damage, this class cannot." That's just poor design.

I think it should also be pointed that magicka builds monopolize most class abilities including all the good aoes AND they have a weapon based aoe as well.

dsalter

Cathexis wrote: »

+1.

How about a 5% chance to disintegrate for 20k ^_^

problem is we'd have nothing to proc it off of unless critical surge also "sparks" damage done to nearby enemies for say 10-20% of damage done on the target, that way gives them a buff that also allows us to benifit from our storm passives

Scyantific

Uh no, leave Mages' Wrath as is. I like my better executioner.

Alucardo

Huggalump wrote: »

6) Kills everyone of opposing factions in Cyrodiil, reaches into their banks and steals all their Tel Var stones. This is open to slight adjusting.

Add a small cool down on that and then we'll talk.

Honestly, stam sorc was my very first character on ESO. Yeah, I know.. it's a pretty weird choice to start with. I think it was the 15% cost reduction on Ultimates so I could WW transform more often that drew me in.
Anyway, after having the same problem as yourself; no real sorc class abilities that were stamina based, I was like.. why bother?
Been playing stam DK ever since and haven't looked back. I utilise a lot of DK skills and only 3 S+B abilities (ransack, shield assault and def stance). I actually felt like a Dragonknight, and it felt good.
I believe a stam sorc should feel the same way, but the problem is there will be magicka sorcs moaning about you taking morphs from them. For example, we ask for one of the DK whips to be stam and all hell breaks loose.

What would make me come back to Stam sorc? A direct damage spell. That's all. My idea was a morph of Mages Fury, but costs stamina, and it's a whip instead of bolt of lightning from the sky (which doesn't make sense for stam users)

Lightning Whip
Cast time: Instant
Cost: X stamina
Description: Charge lightning into your hand to perform a powerful whip attack with the power of lightning. Targets below 25% are set off-balanced, and the next whip turns into Charged whip, causing the damage to be amplified by 75% (this can happen once every 5 seconds). Charged whip heals the sorcerer for X amount over Y seconds (or gives them minor resistance).

ColoursYouHave

Just turn that unused crystal frags morph into a crystal sword close-ranged instant cast stamina skill and call it a day.

Emma_Overload

Please... no more gimmicky RNG procs! Just make it instant damage and call it a day.

I think Mage's Fury would be the ideal candidate. Just give it a Stamina morph and up the base damage so that it's the same as Surprise Attack or whatever. This doesn't need to be complicated!

dsalter

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Please... no more gimmicky RNG procs! Just make it instant damage and call it a day.

I think Mage's Fury would be the ideal candidate. Just give it a Stamina morph and up the base damage so that it's the same as Surprise Attack or whatever. This doesn't need to be complicated!

that would actually be overpowered since it has a built in execute and can proc disintigration

Emma_Overload

dsalter wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Please... no more gimmicky RNG procs! Just make it instant damage and call it a day.

I think Mage's Fury would be the ideal candidate. Just give it a Stamina morph and up the base damage so that it's the same as Surprise Attack or whatever. This doesn't need to be complicated!

that would actually be overpowered since it has a built in execute and can proc disintigration

They can get rid of the "execute" for all I care. I haven't had room on my bar for an execute in months. Executes made more sense in the early days of ESO when we were all more resource starved, and main damage spells weren't so strong.

CP5

Odds are if ZOS were to do something like this they would only pick one skill's morph to change. If it was a storm calling skill stamina sorcs could use it to proc disintegration (which scales off max hp) as a nice damage source, or dark magic for the blood magic passive. I would honestly prefer if crystal blast were changed so we could use blood magic as a heal, and then (optimistically) add minor shock damage to surge, and make critical surge cause small shock explosions on cirt hits that it procs on, and power surge adding a much smaller aoe but on all crits.