Do it for the Casual

DaveMoeDee

Vangy wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Many of you are only partially correct about the effects of a global AH. Here is what would happen, and I am 100% positive it would from years of playing EA Ultimate Team.

1) The top 5 to 10% of items would cost an insane amount of gold. This would be because someone would buy ALL OF THEM and corner the market. Not just on odd gear like rings of agility either. It would only take 1 person with 1 million gold to turn Tempering Alloys into a 50,000 gold each product. All you have to do is buy up all your competition. With enough gold it's totally doable.

2) Every other item not deemed worth enough to be cornered would take a significant price reduction down to CPU vendor levels. The low hanging fruit guys would just keep undercutting each other.

These two things end up leaving us with an unhealthy economy where everything is either 1000 times more expensive than it should be or virtually worthless. If you're worried about rich people getting richer this is a highway to it.

Now, with that said the current system could use many improvements. I wish guilds could hold 1000 to 2000 instead of 500. I wish I could join more than 5. I also don't understand why a group of 10 can't have a trader if they can afford it. Hell, a group of 1 should if they can afford it.

Also, the auction horse is a fantastic idea.

This and this again. As a casual gamer I make money by selling relatively common stuff Like kutas, alchemy ingredients and low level gear. With a common auction house these would be worth diddly squat. And I would never be able to afford high end gear. Sometimes people have no idea what they are asking for. Efficient buying for regular people = efficient buying for monopolies as well. Putting everything in one place just makes it easier for the guys with a gazillion gold to turn the economy into a living hell.

I am pro low prices. I don't need to make money selling. I would love dirt cheap mats though.

I would love to have monopolies buying up items I sell at the same price they charge. That would be awesome.

DanielMaxwell

Shadesofkin wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Right because it takes thought to go to guild traders? I'm not saying let's make ESO a socialist game where gear is purely on a token system I'm saying centralize trading so there is actually competitive markets and shoppers don't have to wayshrine across tamriel in search of the mythical ring of agility.

Except Centralized trading doesn't fix the issue you're talking about.

your right it does not fix it but neither does the current system , which also adds in extra player traveling to try and find a decent price on the item they want . that extra traveling also eats into the players available play time which will vary from player to player.

DaveMoeDee

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Right because it takes thought to go to guild traders? I'm not saying let's make ESO a socialist game where gear is purely on a token system I'm saying centralize trading so there is actually competitive markets and shoppers don't have to wayshrine across tamriel in search of the mythical ring of agility.

Except Centralized trading doesn't fix the issue you're talking about.

your right it does not fix it but neither does the current system , which also adds in extra player traveling to try and find a decent price on the item they want . that extra traveling also eats into the players available play time which will vary from player to player.

Yeah, so current system usually means I don't bother buying things. Too much work.

Scyantific

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm always going to be in favor of the current guild system and I barely use any of my guilds auction housing. It's free market in action, you can go shop in the one that has a better price (and there's almost always a better price).

It's only a free market for buyers. It's not at all a free market for sellers.

Wrong, it's absolutely a free market for sellers as well.

k2blader wrote: »

If anyone wants to see what a failure guild traders are, browse for staple IC mats-- ancestor silk, rubedo leather, rubedite ingot-- and check out how limited the supply is which in turn pushes up the prices to ridiculous. If there were something like an auction house, or at least a way for ALL players to put their wares on the public market, prices would be more in line with the true value of items.

Rubedite, Rubedo Leather, Ancestor Silk, and Ruby Ash have all dropped in price pretty decently since the launch of IC.

Hell even Repora runes are selling for nearly half of what they sold at launch.

Vangy

Yes even ic stuff will eventually even out to what they should be worthy given time. Look at 90% of other mmos with centralised auction houses. They failed pretty hard. Auction bots everywhere with gold sellers spamming trade chat. In eso there is virtually no way to automate this process all thanks to our trusty guild traders.

DanielMaxwell

what is possibly the best solution would be to place guild stores in the NPC guilds (Fighters and Mages guilds) that players could goto at each guilds guildhall. this would provide a gold sink to remove "extra" gold from the game as all the fees would goto the NPC guild , while allowing players who do not wish to join a player run guild a place to list and sell their items .


depending on how much coding ZOS is willing to put into this idea these stores could be one stop shopping and sell all listed items , or they could only list items that are with in the level range of the zone the guildhall is in .


not a perfect solution but it is a viable one.

DanielMaxwell

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Right because it takes thought to go to guild traders? I'm not saying let's make ESO a socialist game where gear is purely on a token system I'm saying centralize trading so there is actually competitive markets and shoppers don't have to wayshrine across tamriel in search of the mythical ring of agility.

Except Centralized trading doesn't fix the issue you're talking about.

your right it does not fix it but neither does the current system , which also adds in extra player traveling to try and find a decent price on the item they want . that extra traveling also eats into the players available play time which will vary from player to player.

Yeah, so current system usually means I don't bother buying things. Too much work.

Same here and it also means I don't bother trying to sell stuff , bank it and deconstruct it on alts or use it for research on them.

DaveMoeDee

Vangy wrote: »

Yes even ic stuff will eventually even out to what they should be worthy given time. Look at 90% of other mmos with centralised auction houses. They failed pretty hard. Auction bots everywhere with gold sellers spamming trade chat. In eso there is virtually no way to automate this process all thanks to our trusty guild traders.

As someone who never played another MMO, I think my barrier to appreciating this was the scale. I suppose if you have someone gaming the auction house 24-7, they will end up with an insane amount of money. So much money that they could really afford to buy all of the hot ticket rare items.

The thing is, I would benefit from that since all I do in guilds stores is sell. The only things I have bought were nirnhoned items for research. I would love to have some monopolist buying up all my glass fragments immediately to corner the market. That would be awesome for me.

As the OP says, it is fine for us casuals.

MisterBigglesworth

The MMO global auction house is the single greatest invention of all mankind and people who disagree are just dum dums. The end. All counterargument automatically get rekt.

Swindy

Callous2208 wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Right because it takes thought to go to guild traders? I'm not saying let's make ESO a socialist game where gear is purely on a token system I'm saying centralize trading so there is actually competitive markets and shoppers don't have to wayshrine across tamriel in search of the mythical ring of agility.

Except Centralized trading doesn't fix the issue you're talking about.

Elaborate

I got two rings of agi on a trader in a less than prime location, for half of what they were going for in the major city traders. Had I went to a global ah, all of the rings would have been posted at the same high price with no deal to be found.

Got my agility daggers the same way.

Paid through the nose in Mournhold for my Endurance jewelry with the traits I wanted though lol.
So my daily grind & farm (solo & group-less Pve guy) now includes traveling around dozens of guild traders to see what I can scrounge for better prices.

Dude with the trading ass though got an awesome...would've got more if the system would let me for effort & thought.
Kudos.

RSram

Brrrofski wrote: »

Auction house isn't the answer

What stops the already rich buying up all stock of something and then selling it at a higher price?

Centralising a market doesn't promote price variation.

To stop the rich from selling items at ridiculous prices, you just need to regulate how the items are sold:

1) A player can only sell a 30 items in the auction house at one time.

2) The item remains locked in the player's bank account until it is sold. By having a limit based a user's bank account and having a set limit of how many items a player can sell would limit the player's ability to corner the market.

4) To prevent over pricing an item, the player is charged a logarithmic auction fee for every posted sale in the game. This auction fee is immediately removed from the seller's bank account as the item is posted for sale in is not refundable even if the item is not sold. The auction price is calculated from a formula based on a ESO base price set by the game developers for each item in the game. The ESO developers may set a higher base price for rare game items; the auction fees are logarithmic based on how high over the base price that the item is being sold:

Auction Fee = (Auction Price / Base price) * ln (Auction Price)

For example, if a player posts the "Memento of the Fountain" necklace for 90,000 gold and the necklace has a base price of 48 gold, the auction fee would be:

Auction Fee = (Auction Price/Base Price) * In (Auction Price)
Auction Fee = (90,000/48) * In (90,000)
Auction Fee = (1875) * (11.408)
Auction Fee = 21,389 gold (rounded value)

The seller would have to decide if the risk of charging such a high price for this item is worth the risk of losing 21,389 gold if the items isn't sold.

If the seller was trying to sell 10 items at this price would require that the seller to pay 213,890 gold in auction fees up front before any of the items are sold.

If the item is sold at a more realistic value of 500, then the auction fee would be:

Auction Fee = (Auction Price/Base Price) * In (Auction Price)
Auction Fee = (500/48) * In (500)
Auction Fee = (10.42) * (6.22)
Auction Fee = 64 gold (rounded value)

So in this system places limits on how much influence a rich player can have on the market. The amount of items the rich player can buy is also limited to the size of the player’s bank account.

Casdha

Trying to figure out if folks are mad about:

1) They have no place to sell their item

2) The item they want is too high

3) They can't afford the best locations.


I'll tell ya what, go to Wal-Mart and:

1) Ask them if you can sell your items in their store

2) Tell them you will only pay $20.00 for that TV

3) Tell them you deserve to buy their store for a $1000.00

Then see what happens

You might be able to pull off the first one if you build a relationship with them but you can chalk the other two.

SteveCampsOut

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Remove guild traders, Replace it with centralized trader I.E. an auction house. Then increase the sales tax by 20% to make sure theres limited inflation. Guild traders are a broken system where the rich get richer and guild leads can sit back while 499 people work for them. Please put an end to ESO corporate welfare they don't share the profits in real life why would they in a video game.

Considering my 400+ members never bother doing sheit in my casual trade guild and I do all the inviting and working and kicking inactives and inviting more new blood and kicking more inactives in a never ending cycle, I scoff at your Corporate Welfare remark!

CromulentForumID

Scyantific wrote: »

Wrong, it's absolutely a free market for sellers as well.

How? There are barriers to selling.

1. Joining a guild or creating a guild
2. Getting your guild to 50 people or finding one
3. Finding one you can afford to stay in (One with no fees or one with fees you can afford)
4. Finding a guild that sells to the public

You can argue about how hard these things are, but I really don't think you can argue it is free trade. There are gates to access - how is that free?

If you mean spamming text or voice chat, well, we're talking about the game-provided trading system. I am not sure selling player-to-player can be considered in the discussion.

If you meant something else, sorry, but your one sentence did not give me much to go on.