Destiny vs ESO, I don't understand..

Shadowstep2003

I understand these are two different genres, but in my mind Destiny still has servers to maintain and the game is updated on a basis similar to MMOs.

The thing is, Destiny is simply buy to play (like ESO), but with no monthly subscription option and no cash store. So how is it that the game can receive such incredible content & quality of life updates while we're seemingly stuck waiting in turn?

I started ESO around console launch but apparently it's been around for a little while since it's availability on PC. Maybe it's just me, but the UI seems to be very dated not to mention the presentation in general. Floating combat text is missing, buff indicators, lackluster LFG... And what about account bound achievements? I'd love to not have to skyshard and lorebook hunt on every character while still gaining the benefits. That would definitely promote alt creation for a guy like me.

I still enjoy the game, but I just don't understand why ZOS isn't improving on the game's base foundation. These little things that I mention are what would really
make the game for us console gamers. I'm sure Imperial City is great, but I think what we need is improvements to the game's core and I'm not sure what is taking so long.

Is Activision pouring more money into Destiny than Bethesda is into ESO? Does Bungie have a larger production team than ZOS? I feel like this game can be
so much more successful, but there are a myriad of things holding it back and it seems like it's taking a while for things to be addressed. Maybe things will
be more smooth now that Imperial City has launched and it has freed up resources, but I can't be sure.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Thank you for your responses. I just wanted to clarify that I am not trying to make gameplay comparisons. Someone else said it best when they said ZOS has huge console sales, plus subs, plus store sales, and it seems like very little is going back into the game compared to a non MMO such as Destiny. Yes I know Imperial City just came out along with a HUGE patch, but it took quite some time. I am personally worried about the frequency of patches as well as ZOS's intentions to improve the core foundation of the game (existing things such as UI, LFG, Vet ranks, Champ system, rewards, etc). I truly believe that focusing on these aspects before adding new content would make the game that much more enjoyable.

Kammakazi

Stop comparing this game with other games and other companies.

It's like going to another country and then complaining about some things aren't as good as your home country.

sadownik

Kammakazi wrote: »

Stop comparing this game with other games and other companies.

It's like going to another country and then complaining about some things aren't as good as your home country.

And? You shouldnt want, and act accordingly the situation in your country to change? Well i would never...

Flyersfan314

ESO is played across three platforms, Destiny only one.

I would guess the player base for Destiny is smaller than ESO.

Flyersfan314

I mean two platforms, PS4 and Xbone. Sorry. But my point is the same.

XxBoDxX

Horrible analogy man. So completely different. What's he's doing is like comparing a Chevy truck to a dodge truck. The country thing was a bit over the top..

I'm curious as well though. There should be multiple things and set to try and obtain. The crafting in this game is pretty dull, the questing is dull. What the point in buying crowns when you can only buy the same things now as you could when the game first launched? Why aren't they adding things? They added like 3 things when IC came out. What are they doing??

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

They just released a DLC two weeks ago lol... wtf are you talking about

Kova

1st, thank you for not starting a gameplay comparison.

I think it really has to do with the pay model. Destiny understands it has a socially minded player base that will pay for DLC. So it can make 500 mil in one day if it wants to. http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/10/destiny-makes-500-million-in-one-day-4863636/

ESO loyalty is very tentative. It removed its subscription to compete with other MMOs and draw in a crowd that would shell out money for micro transactions. Couple that with terrible customer support and console favortism and you have a lot of hurt subs who really believed in the game and would've probably bought DLC too. That might be the major difference.

ESO has every other MMO to battle against while Destiny, fueled by halo loyalty hype, has only two major titles to fight against (BF and COD), one of which is already looked upon negatively.

Finally, there is a legacy to think about. ESO has had some lore breaking moments, but it hasn't messed up in a major way yet. In order to provide content, the devs must think of lore friendly story and incorporate with new gameplay and goals. Destiny has no lore foundationl; nothing to protect. You can design content and write off the story later. Get new guns, shoot more stuff, beat new content. For ESO it's: Get new gear, fight more enemies, and OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST SAY PELINAL WHITESTRAKE WAS STILL ALIVE? ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU IDIOTS.

Destiny has a established company that knows it will profit and doesn't try to push that limit. ZOS is a lot like an american corporation that focuses on Short term profit and shareholder value. So which do you think has the leeway to provide content?

UltimaJoe777

Nobody cares about Destiny. If they do they'd go play it and not try to talk about it here.

ESO is ESO, that is all you need to know.

XxBoDxX

It makes no sense then if they're supposed to make money on micro transactions when they barely have anything for you to buy on the crown store. It's all useless stuff no one wants save for maybe the crafting stuff on there. If that was truly their plan wouldn't they be adding stuff left and right like neverwinter? They have so much to buy and work for its ridiculous.

nine9six

Apples to Oranges.

Ace_of_Destiny

Flyersfan314 wrote: »

ESO is played across three platforms, Destiny only one.

I would guess the player base for Destiny is smaller than ESO.

Actually, Destiny has a much larger player base than ESO.
Initial sales alone were more than 20,000,000 copies...if I recall correctly.
(I don't like Destiny, so I have no idea how many copies of the new expansion "The Taken King" has sold...I really hate Destiny.)

And, if you even look at the forum traffic of the two games you will notice much more traffic on the Destiny boards.
For example...
If you make a post to the Destiny forum by the time you have typed and posted a simple three line post it will have already been moved to about page three due to so many new posts per minute.
Very high traffic...and not all just trolls.
Here, in the ESO forum, on the first page alone the bottom post can be as much as 5 hours old.
Rather low traffic...and many repititions of the same topics.

Yes, I admit, forum use does NOT truly show an amount of player base.
However, it does show a very good indication of it.

But...I hate Destiny, and wish it would go the way of the Dodo.

Korah_Eaglecry

Destiny is a shooter first. And shooters draw FPS Players. FPS Players are used to the B2P/Every Few Months DLC setup.

ESO is an MMO that started out as a Buy and Sub set up and only recently changed to the B2P/Every Few Months DLC setup.

The difference here is that games like Destiny will cash in big time on initial purchase and above average with DLCs. Especially if the company is renowned like Bungie is. Compared to ESO where the expectation is that players will buy the game (sometimes an above average sale up front) and then a solid portion of them will abandon the game after the first month. This happens even for F2P/B2P MMOs. MMOs in general have a smaller market than FPSs where players are used to new FPSes every year. MMO players will stick with said MMO for years, sometimes the life of the game. MMOs in general have smaller populations, not including WoW since its the exception here, so they used to have to rely on subs to keep the lights on. With the popularity of F2P/B2P MMOs hitting the market not long after WoW soared to popularity it became a lot harder for Sub based MMOs to continue to keep their doors opened. Especially when F2P/B2P MMOs were offering continued updates every few months compared to every few years that Sub Based MMOs offered.

Both models can work. But FPS Gamers are more reluctant to buy into microtransactions (although EA has been slowly trying to introduce them to games like Battlefield). Where as F2P/B2P Gamers are already used to opening their wallets monthly for sub based games and are comfortable with doing it for microtransactions. Of course, some will pay into the store more than others.

Ace_of_Destiny

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Destiny is a shooter first. And shooters draw FPS Players. FPS Players are used to the B2P/Every Few Months DLC setup.

ESO is an MMO that started out as a Buy and Sub set up and only recently changed to the B2P/Every Few Months DLC setup.

The difference here is that games like Destiny will cash in big time on initial purchase and above average with DLCs. Especially if the company is renowned like Bungie is. Compared to ESO where the expectation is that players will buy the game (sometimes an above average sale up front) and then a solid portion of them will abandon the game after the first month. This happens even for F2P/B2P MMOs. MMOs in general have a smaller market than FPSs where players are used to new FPSes every year. MMO players will stick with said MMO for years, sometimes the life of the game. MMOs in general have smaller populations, not including WoW since its the exception here, so they used to have to rely on subs to keep the lights on. With the popularity of F2P/B2P MMOs hitting the market not long after WoW soared to popularity it became a lot harder for Sub based MMOs to continue to keep their doors opened. Especially when F2P/B2P MMOs were offering continued updates every few months compared to every few years that Sub Based MMOs offered.

Both models can work. But FPS Gamers are more reluctant to buy into microtransactions (although EA has been slowly trying to introduce them to games like Battlefield). Where as F2P/B2P Gamers are already used to opening their wallets monthly for sub based games and are comfortable with doing it for microtransactions. Of course, some will pay into the store more than others.

I had to give you an "Insightful", because you had the patience to type that out...and I was just way too lazy.

Strider_Roshin

Okay, as someone who has played Destiny and hit max light level twice, played the crap out of PvP, Raids, etc. Let me say this: Destiny had a $500 Million dollar budget and the game is garbage. Crap story, limited/almost zero customization, horrible imbalances that get worse with each update, and a beautiful world with a maximum of 50 people per instanced world with zero exploration, and if you do explore you get punished and killed for going too far, and the only items you can interact with are quest related or are item chests. Oh and Destiny has ZERO economy.

This isn't comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing apples to dry rotted fruit.

ESO's budget was less than $200 Million, and is a much more accomplished game with a crew that actually gives a crap about the opinion of its fan base.

As far as scrolling combat on console goes, it was mentioned in the last ESO live that it's coming to console.

tordr86b16_ESO

Destiny is garbage.

SirAndy

Shadowstep2003 wrote: »

Is Activision pouring more money into Destiny than Bethesda is into ESO?

Bethesda != ESO

Brightxdawn

Incredible content? Are you kidding? Destiny DLC's are GARBAGE. This is ESO not Destiny.

Xendyn

Just FYI also, Bethesda does not make this game, all they are is lore consultants. This company, ZOS was created to be the online department for Zenimax which also owns Bethesda and several other game companies.

LordSemaj

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Okay, as someone who has played Destiny and hit max light level twice, played the crap out of PvP, Raids, etc. Let me say this: Destiny had a $500 Million dollar budget and the game is garbage. Crap story, limited/almost zero customization, horrible imbalances that get worse with each update, and a beautiful world with a maximum of 50 people per instanced world with zero exploration, and if you do explore you get punished and killed for going too far, and the only items you can interact with are quest related or are item chests. Oh and Destiny has ZERO economy.

This isn't comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing apples to dry rotted fruit.

ESO's budget was less than $200 Million, and is a much more accomplished game with a crew that actually gives a crap about the opinion of its fan base.

As far as scrolling combat on console goes, it was mentioned in the last ESO live that it's coming to console.

Meanwhile, Warframe has all those problems solved.

It's the better version of Destiny and it doesn't cost a dime.

Hiero_Glyph

Kova wrote: »

1st, thank you for not starting a gameplay comparison.

I think it really has to do with the pay model. Destiny understands it has a socially minded player base that will pay for DLC. So it can make 500 mil in one day if it wants to. http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/10/destiny-makes-500-million-in-one-day-4863636/

ESO loyalty is very tentative. It removed its subscription to compete with other MMOs and draw in a crowd that would shell out money for micro transactions. Couple that with terrible customer support and console favortism and you have a lot of hurt subs who really believed in the game and would've probably bought DLC too. That might be the major difference.

ESO has every other MMO to battle against while Destiny, fueled by halo loyalty hype, has only two major titles to fight against (BF and COD), one of which is already looked upon negatively.

Finally, there is a legacy to think about. ESO has had some lore breaking moments, but it hasn't messed up in a major way yet. In order to provide content, the devs must think of lore friendly story and incorporate with new gameplay and goals. Destiny has no lore foundationl; nothing to protect. You can design content and write off the story later. Get new guns, shoot more stuff, beat new content. For ESO it's: Get new gear, fight more enemies, and OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST SAY PELINAL WHITESTRAKE WAS STILL ALIVE? ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU IDIOTS.

Destiny has a established company that knows it will profit and doesn't try to push that limit. ZOS is a lot like an american corporation that focuses on Short term profit and shareholder value. So which do you think has the leeway to provide content?

You obviously haven't played the console version then. There is certainly no favoritism in the vanilla game with stripped down features (no text chat, no add-on support, slower updates, etc.) that was delayed over a year and then allowed PC transfers to ruin its economy.

Gidorick

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Okay, as someone who has played Destiny and hit max light level twice, played the crap out of PvP, Raids, etc.....the game is garbage.

how can you play a game you dislike so much to max level... TWICE?

nimander99

You make a valid point about the b2p comparison between the 2 games. That being said this newest expansion for Destiny is obviously the first they've actually created... the others were already made prior too launch then gutted from the game to increase revenue.

nimander99

Gidorick wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Okay, as someone who has played Destiny and hit max light level twice, played the crap out of PvP, Raids, etc.....the game is garbage.

how can you play a game you dislike so much to max level... TWICE?

As I understand it Destiny is a guilty pleasure among its player base. No one talks about liking it but they all keep coming back... kinda like Skooma.

BackFreckle

If you think about it the two games can actually be compared deeper than the pay models. ZOS went with their "couch player" bs wich essentially is how people play FPSes (obviously not all) so it can be argued that you can compare both games

Shad0wfire99

You people that keep saying Destiny had a 500 million dollar budget need to get your facts straight. 500 million over 10 years. It's been 1 year. Stop spewing that nonsense like they spent 500 mil on the base game and that's just it. Idiots.

nine9six

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

You people that keep saying Destiny had a 500 million dollar budget need to get your facts straight. 500 million over 10 years. It's been 1 year. Stop spewing that nonsense like they spent 500 mil on the base game and that's just it. Idiots.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

From what I gather alot of Destiny's 'content' was actually supposed to have been included in the base game, or actually existed in some form already. Not only that but the main story lead quit over creative differences so there's alot of hints at the story that could've been, and it could've been alot better than the hogwash that exists in the game now. I saw the live action/cinematic trailers for the gamea nd thought hey that looks interesting.

then just for funsies I looked up story cutscenes on youtube and the dialogue was just.....Tamrielic is modern civilization compared to the fruity tooty thees and thous I kept hearing in the voiceovers. That's not a mmo shooter that's mmo Shakespeare.

Even though ESO's taken alot of liberties with story, it's been more or less consistent with existing lore, because there IS consistent lore. (and yes it is possible for Pelinal to be 'alive' since he is a Shezzarine, reincarnations of Lorkhan in mortal form). Unlike another long-standing MMO who's practically butchered their lore with incessant retcons and rehashes of their original story...

Destiny has its niche base, so does ESO, but they are in no way alike or should be considered such. ESO bit off more than they could chew. Destiny bit and thent ried to serve the halfeaten remains for DLC.

ItsMeToo

In before lock. Why?

Because I can. LOL

AlphaCrucis

Destiny is just ***, compared to ESO. I don't know why people are still playing Destiny, it's so repetitive, doing the daily, weekly, nightfall then raids. For myself I'd have all content done in 1 night on all 3 maxed characters. So it got boring real quick! Plus you could only group with 2 other people, so much for a mmo

Groggpuffar

LordSemaj wrote: »

Meanwhile, Warframe has all those problems solved.

It's the better version of Destiny and it doesn't cost a dime.

Warframe is good, but it sucks cause you cannot start over. It's what make that game *** and not worth my life.