The meta of this games PvP is terrible

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I just never want to hear one more complaint about adding arenas, duels or battlegrounds to this game. Every argument against those things has already happened in the IC. If we can put up with it for the IC, we can put up with it for the small scale PvP we have been wanting since launch.

• Lame excuse 1: Arena/Duels/Battlegrounds will detract from cyrodiil!!!! Already happened with IC.
• Lame excuse 2: Arena/Duels/Battlegrounds will have to have its own gear and that's bad because WoW. LOL look at what IC did to gear.
• Lame excuse 3: Arena/Duels/Battlegrounds will make more ppl complain about balance. LOL. Balance whine never dies.

Since all of the "Downsides" of Arena/Duels/Battlegrounds have already happened, can we have them now?

anitajoneb17_ESO

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

The largest group always wins.

Not always. There are some clever people around there.

We were in sewers with some guildies last night, in what you would call a "small zerg" (8-10 of us). That's because it's fun to play together and because we're mostly PvEers (just 1 of us is an experiences PvPer, although an excellent one).
We did the usual "clean and loot everything" down to center and Molag Bal, with the occasional PvP encounter.
By the time we were in the center we all had 1,5K-2K stones and were wondering whether we'd go back "walking" or teleporting with a yellow gem. We voted for walking back and were very careful to keep very close together. Worked all fine and we all reached the last door to the alliance base no problem. All... except one (me). Two yellows were stealthing just by that door (and believe me, the whole area was full of blues). They waited until our entire group had entered the base until the very last one (me) and jumped and CCed me right before I could hit "E" to open the door.

Needless to say I lost my stones, and needless to say I was pissed no end. BUT I reckon that such a tactic is very clever and requires skills, coordination and fine-tuning.

Oh, and of course our experienced PvPer jumped back in, chased them all over the sewers, avenged me and got my stones back :-) He can't give them back to me but at least they remained within our group ;-)

That's just an anecdote, but that's to say that there are strategies available to smaller groups of people. And the districts offer quite a lot of opportunities imho for smaller scale, non-zerging PvP and quite challenging 1v1 fights. Maybe not at peak hours though. But off-peak hours, I encounter such fights all the time.

Docmandu

Diamond_10 wrote: »

RAnd sorcs shield stacking lol, cant fix it so lets put a set out there to force anyone who wants to even think about attempting to kill a sorc to wear. Just put a damn cooldown in the game for abilities like this.

I agree on how bad it was to make 1 set to counter the shield stacking, instead of actually fixing the shield stacking. But I totally disagree with cooldowns! The thing that makes this game somewhat different to all the other MMOs is the fact that it doesn't have cooldowns. I hope they keep it that way.

A different fix would have been to not allow stacking, let the biggest shield take effect.

Kas

true reason:

Arenas will lead to fotm group compositions very quickly.
Balancing aroud the arenas would be necessary (and a lot to be done) while ZOS has other balancing goals (variety in "viable" builds, use the overall meta to make it less obvious what's actually the strongest)

Turelus

Open world PvP areas cause this kind of emergent gameplay and tactics, if you want arena based PvP go play a game with it. If you want to solo/small gang then you have to roam and find that whilst avoiding the larger groups.

Docmandu

Diamond_10 wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

Huh? Most games are mimicking WoW and EverQuest style games currently. Every class in those games have loads of AOE options. Even unconventional MMOs like Defiance, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars 2, they all had AOE spam options.

They do have AOE, but its generally weak compared to single target. Games like DAOC where Matt Firor came from, and some of ones you listed, if you spam AOE you will lose a group pvp encounter, and pretty badly. Its way too strong in ESO and needs a 50% damage cut so people actually start to use single target abilities.

The problem in ESO imho is not the AOE damage skills, it's the AOE auto-target everyone Healing / Shielding that is the problem imho.

If you compare to DAoC, you get the same AoE capability, but in DAoC a battlegroup of 100 players were all divided in 8 player groups and healing was restricted to your own group (you even had groups without healers in zergs like that). So run in there and AoE and you're sure to kill a few.

However in ESO, those 100 players all get the benefit of the healers in the zerg and strong shield skills like Barrier work for everyone around you, grouped or not.. add to that that anyone can equip barrier. So you might be facing a 100 person zerg that has 100 barriers available. Good luck putting a dent in that.

Making barrier only work on your group would already make a huge difference imho.. preferably even on a small group and not the raid size group, afterall everybody can equip it. So restricting it to a small group would be fine.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Turelus wrote: »

Open world PvP areas cause this kind of emergent gameplay and tactics, if you want arena based PvP go play a game with it. If you want to solo/small gang then you have to roam and find that whilst avoiding the larger groups.

Why cant we have both and stop pretending that this game can only do one thing. ZOS is willing to "destroy" PvP for IC, they might as well throw in arena now while its already "destroyed."

Egonieser

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

For those saying 'l2p' or 'just avoid zergs' to the OP, you make me laugh.

Not a one of you can reliably avoid a fast competent zerg in IC sewers, and you won't survive them 95% of the time either, so don't pretend otherwise.

The fact is, zerging requires no skill, and good zerging just requires TS control from someone with half a brain (or more) and a basic grasp of the kinds of 'tactics' a six year old could master.

There simply isn't any significant skill or cleverness involved, and it is only fun for those who get a puerile thrill out of steamrollering entirely overmatched victims.

Such people tend to be the very same who claim, spuriously, that it's all about 'skill'.

Such claims are of course complete and utter garbage.

Duelling requires skill; small group vs. group fights require skill; large fights in MMOs where the repeated spamming of massive aoe damage and aoe heals aren't a possibility require some skill... but zerging in ESO is about as brainless as the arguments that spam these forums in support of them...

... by the people zerging, of course...

... don't think we don't notice the oversize serving of self interest in such posts ladies and gents, because we do.

I would love to see real skill return to larger scale PvP, but as the game is currently set up, there is no chance of it.

I totally agree with this.
Being a lone wolf and 1 vs 1 lover i share this mentality. I pvp to better myself and find it very satisfying winning encounters against high ranking players. I will never join zergs and generally stay away from them unless we're that severely outnumbered that there is no other choice, but even then i much rather sneak behind enemy lines and pick out stragglers or stop reinforcements on the routes.
Much more fun, much more satisfying and involves more skill, thus boosting my skill and ego, lol.