The meta of this games PvP is terrible

Diamond_10

Run in a big blob and spam steel tornado. Anyone using magic hit proximity det.
Thats it. No skill, nothing. Just blob and spin to win. Biggest group wins. Almost as bad as GW2s blob tactics used to be.
I left the game and came back to give it another run, and its gone from Impulse blobs to Spin blobs. Nothing in the meta has changed.
WHEN WILL YOU EVER MAKE FUN PVP?
And sorcs shield stacking lol, cant fix it so lets put a set out there to force anyone who wants to even think about attempting to kill a sorc to wear.
Just put a damn cooldown in the game for abilities like this.

Seriously devs you need to get a grip on the decision making, and actually do something about it unless youve fired all the people who knew how to change things like this? I dunno what happens behind the scenes.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Can a mod please close this before I get banned for the response I'm thinking about giving to this?

You're just wrong. Learn to play. Here are some helpful hints that you'll probably never read.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212691/l2p-imperial-city-like-a-boss-tips-and-tricks#latest

Diamond_10

What on earth has that thread to do with the meta of pvp? You just wanted more hits on your little IC guide or what?
Theres a reason every single pvp group/guild are running the exact same tactics.

LordSemaj

I'm confused. There are other games that don't revolve around throwing up damage skills on people and AOEs on zergs?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

1) It's not my guide.
2) I've played this game since PC launch and have never once though the "meta" you're complaining about is a problem.
3) Learning to play often starts by avoiding Zergs.

tordr86b16_ESO

This is the meta because: a. there are no deminishing returns on how many stones you get the larger the group grows. hence, the zerging.

Diamond_10

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

This is the meta because: a. there are no deminishing returns on how many stones you get the larger the group grows. hence, the zerging.

Yet im not just talking IC im talking in general whether up top or down below.
spinspinspin

Shogunami

I'm trying really hard to enjoy IC and PvP in this game, but it's just that it's lacking.. well.. PvP.

You either get ganked by a zerg or you get ganked by someone who kills you in less than three seconds. There's no real in-game room or resource for learning or improving on your own skills and/or build. For someone who can't play this game full time it's actually quite frustrating.
I've been an avid PvPer since the launch of Lineage 2 U.S. beta and have thoroughly enjoyed PvPing in many MMO's, and I've been good at it.
But ESO is different, there's seldom a chance to have a 1v1 fight and it's most often just about the bigger group spaming this and that aoe and this and that heal faster than the other group. Those who don't stay with the zerg gets killed one by one.

And then there are these group of 3-4 guys who can wipe out an entire group of 12. If you try and attack one of these guys all you see is that your entire resource pool put into spells does practically 0 damage. You die and see "you got hit for 300 bazillion, 1 gigillion and 34k damage" within a few seconds.

There's no room to improve. There doesn't appear to be any room for players who just want to jump in and have a good time.
I'm clearly not the hardcore PvPer that I used to be, but as things are looking now I'm just plain horrible at PvP in this game.

I'm trying so hard to justify the money I spent on IC DLC but I'm having such a hard time understanding how to enjoy it..

Hexyl

Agree.

AOE kill This game. There is just too mutch efficient aoe abilities in this game. In other mmo you have just at least one or two abilities for aoe per class. And some class with 0.

Eso devs have wanted great scalling pvp, but make few class and lot of aoe skill is a mistake

nimander99

Can I have your gold?

LordSemaj

Hexyl wrote: »

AOE kill This game. There is just too mutch efficient aoe abilities in this game. In other mmo you have just at least one or two abilities for aoe per class. And some class with 0.

Huh? Most games are mimicking WoW and EverQuest style games currently. Every class in those games have loads of AOE options. Even unconventional MMOs like Defiance, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars 2, they all had AOE spam options.

Frankly, I'm used to every big PVP game from Ultima Online to DAOC to Shadowbane to Lineage to Guild Wars to Darkfall and now ESO being all about the AOE spam even in scenarios where Zergs aren't the issue. Hitting even three people with an AOE can frequently be more efficient than using a single target attack. The only way to avoid AOE spam is by not standing next to each other.

Nothing unusual here folks. Games have been running this way for ages. The most you see done about it is capping AOE targets to 5 max or allowing them to hit friendlies.

Diamond_10

LordSemaj wrote: »

Huh? Most games are mimicking WoW and EverQuest style games currently. Every class in those games have loads of AOE options. Even unconventional MMOs like Defiance, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars 2, they all had AOE spam options.

They do have AOE, but its generally weak compared to single target. Games like DAOC where Matt Firor came from, and some of ones you listed, if you spam AOE you will lose a group pvp encounter, and pretty badly. Its way too strong in ESO and needs a 50% damage cut so people actually start to use single target abilities.

zornyan

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

This is the meta because: a. there are no deminishing returns on how many stones you get the larger the group grows. hence, the zerging.

Er yes there are? They get shared between a group. Average zero's on here are reporting 10k stones a day maximum. Which is highly unlikely as it causes enemy zergs to form often getting them killed.

Average small group/soloers are getting 40-60k in a days work thanks to them getting more per kill.

Callous2208

zornyan wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

This is the meta because: a. there are no deminishing returns on how many stones you get the larger the group grows. hence, the zerging.

Er yes there are? They get shared between a group. Average zero's on here are reporting 10k stones a day maximum. Which is highly unlikely as it causes enemy zergs to form often getting them killed.

Average small group/soloers are getting 40-60k in a days work thanks to them getting more per kill.

This is true. You get hardly any stones zerging. If you wanna blame somebody for the zerg mentality in every single PvP game, blame the chicken shites and carebears who refuse to set foot in a PvP zone without the comfort of a zerg protecting them. A dev team can only do so much to discourage cowards from hiding behind 100 other players. No one has ever been forced to join a zerg. Yet the same people crying about zerging will be rolling through IC safe and warm in a zerg of their own tonight, you can count on it.

tordr86b16_ESO

LordSemaj wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

AOE kill This game. There is just too mutch efficient aoe abilities in this game. In other mmo you have just at least one or two abilities for aoe per class. And some class with 0.

Huh? Most games are mimicking WoW and EverQuest style games currently. Every class in those games have loads of AOE options. Even unconventional MMOs like Defiance, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars 2, they all had AOE spam options.

Frankly, I'm used to every big PVP game from Ultima Online to DAOC to Shadowbane to Lineage to Guild Wars to Darkfall and now ESO being all about the AOE spam even in scenarios where Zergs aren't the issue. Hitting even three people with an AOE can frequently be more efficient than using a single target attack. The only way to avoid AOE spam is by not standing next to each other.

Nothing unusual here folks. Games have been running this way for ages. The most you see done about it is capping AOE targets to 5 max or allowing them to hit friendlies.

Those games have COOL DOWNS on their abilities.

kevlarto_ESO

The biggest problem or at least one of them, is AOE is king in this game, instead of being supplemental damage to your single target, it is the other way around, where single target is supplemental to AOE. /sigh

Teiji

It's not the meta at all.

It's the drastic removal of softcaps with no thought on how it would affect game balance when all they needed to do was severely level out the diminishing returns in response to data acquired from X amount of many months the game had been on the live server environment.

They didn't address this.

Then they released the champion system into the mix to blow the lack of diminishing returns out of the water even more.

However, block cost reduction has always had diminishing returns, they chose to address this by removing stamina regen while blocking and giving Dodge Roll and Bolt Escape a love tap by increasing cost upon recasts within X seconds.

1.5 was great.

Vangy

Hmmm I'm gona get flamed for this but here goes...

As someone who PVEs and PVPs here's my thoughts. When I want to pvp I go up to the surface and hunt for other like minded people who are for sure wandering around there looking for a fight. When I'm farming stones (ie centre portals give around 100 stones each even if 1000000 people are smacking it) I join a Zerg cos I don't appreciate getting ganked when fighting 3 mobs.

The whole Zerg thing is because PVErs don't wanna pvp. So the best way to avoid this is form a 10000 man strong Zerg machine that stomps and wrecks anything and everything from base to Central sewers and back. Will net you around 1000 stones in maybe 15 mins and ur nice and safe cuddled up like penguins. Most zergs are pvers trying to farm mats and stones safely, of course we have the exceptional pvp guild causing some serious grief here and there but for the most part it's pve focused.

Simple solution is to make mats farmable outside ic and ic will hardly ever see zergs.

Wycks

The PvP in this game has reached an all time low, which says alot about the team lead of the PvP DLC.

CGPsaint

nimander99 wrote: »

Can I have your gold?

There's one in every crowd!

icontested

I think this girl i

Diamond_10 wrote: »

Run in a big blob and spam steel tornado. Anyone using magic hit proximity det.
Thats it. No skill, nothing. Just blob and spin to win. Biggest group wins. Almost as bad as GW2s blob tactics used to be.
I left the game and came back to give it another run, and its gone from Impulse blobs to Spin blobs. Nothing in the meta has changed.
WHEN WILL YOU EVER MAKE FUN PVP?
And sorcs shield stacking lol, cant fix it so lets put a set out there to force anyone who wants to even think about attempting to kill a sorc to wear.
Just put a damn cooldown in the game for abilities like this.

Seriously devs you need to get a grip on the decision making, and actually do something about it unless youve fired all the people who knew how to change things like this? I dunno what happens behind the scenes.

Behind the scenes? They are fighting each other IRL with golf clubs and baseball bats. It's the most effective form of communication.

Brrrofski

Funny thing about shield stacking is it's mostly nightblade who complain about them.

A class who just dissappear every 3 seconds and then attack you from behind. Then dissappear again.

I'll fight sorcs all day over nbs. Just knock them down and do the damage to them then when they can't put a shield up.

Bhakura

Aoes need nerf
single target need buff
goodbye blobbing and hello tactical combat

but then people gonna cry they get one shotted by bowyers ... oh wait some already do

doesnt matter whats done, theres always gonna be crying over this or that

Alucardo

I usually see people with different abilities on most classes, except sorcerer. It's always curse, det, frags, frags, frags, mages wrath, mages wrath. But personally, I don't really care if they want to play like every other sorcerer. If people follow the same meta then it's easier to find counters. Use a unique build on an enemy and they will have a harder time, and probably wonder wtf you're doing.

Jitterbug

i miss battlegrounds

briandivisionb16_ESO

The AoE is crap and yep the largest group always wins.

There are limited solutions here.

Here's some ideas:

Make it harder for larger groups by making magica detonation useless against small groups.
Boost the battle level so group under 6 gets 55% battle level reduction instead of 50%
Group over 10 gets nerf 40% battle level reduction
Group over 20 gets nerf 30%.

We are sick of blobs but at the same time all the other stuff is amazing its just these ugly 'no brain' zergs that spam tornado and impulse while playing one handed and winning. No skill.

Iyas

#noaoecap

byrom101b16_ESO

For those saying 'l2p' or 'just avoid zergs' to the OP, you make me laugh.

Not a one of you can reliably avoid a fast competent zerg in IC sewers, and you won't survive them 95% of the time either, so don't pretend otherwise.

The fact is, zerging requires no skill, and good zerging just requires TS control from someone with half a brain (or more) and a basic grasp of the kinds of 'tactics' a six year old could master.

There simply isn't any significant skill or cleverness involved, and it is only fun for those who get a puerile thrill out of steamrollering entirely overmatched victims.

Such people tend to be the very same who claim, spuriously, that it's all about 'skill'.

Such claims are of course complete and utter garbage.

Duelling requires skill; small group vs. group fights require skill; large fights in MMOs where the repeated spamming of massive aoe damage and aoe heals aren't a possibility require some skill... but zerging in ESO is about as brainless as the arguments that spam these forums in support of them...

... by the people zerging, of course...

... don't think we don't notice the oversize serving of self interest in such posts ladies and gents, because we do.

I would love to see real skill return to larger scale PvP, but as the game is currently set up, there is no chance of it.

Ace_of_Destiny

The meta of this games PvP is terrible

The use of the word "meta" is so "dope".

This is my way of saying I hope people stop using the word "meta" to describe video games as fast as they stopped using the word "dope" to describe...well...everything.

Olysja

Diamond_10 wrote: »

....

100% agreed.

Cherryblossom

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

This is the meta because: a. there are no deminishing returns on how many stones you get the larger the group grows. hence, the zerging.

Actually there is diminishing returns, if you are in a group of more than 12, then if you are not doing enough healing or damage, you will not get any stones. So the Meta is there for groups no bigger than 12.

As for an Army working as well an Army is this not how it's meant to work, I've been in small well organised groups that have easily wiped large Zergs, it's not about tornado spam but more about better healing and ults.

There are many players who are capable of fighting 1vX just take a look at some of Sypher PK videos on Utube, he even explains how its done. His guild and others even arrange 1 on 1 fights and tournaments, so maybe you need to look at other ways of playing the game too.