Warlord vs Mooncalf: Which passive is better?

Strider_Roshin · September 2015

I like many others have been investing their champion points into the passive Mooncalf. The reason being? Because we can visualize the change/increase when we look on our character sheet. At least that's why I think we do it. Anyways after doing some testing it turns out Warlord is definitely the way to go. Here's my video discussing/testing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5qU9f0ggTU

Ourorboros · September 2015

Interesting. May have to see if results are similar for magika equivalents for regen vs. cost reduction.

butoijo · September 2015

With passive alchemy + restore stamina potion = warlord

Nikkor · October 2015

I get it but.

This still isn't taking into account all real world scenarios.

Example - Stam recovery is always. Reduced cost is when you are doing things. "Most things granted."

I think a balance that mitigates diminishing returns is best.

Strider_Roshin · October 2015

Nikkor wrote: »

I get it but.

This still isn't taking into account all real world scenarios.

Example - Stam recovery is always. Reduced cost is when you are doing things. "Most things granted."

I think a balance that mitigates diminishing returns is best.

Essentially what I do is put 75% of my points into warlord, and 25% into mooncalf. I'm not saying ignore mooncalf entirely, but warlord should definitely be your main focus.

MonarchChief · November 2015

How much stam regen did you have in this video? Also, how much did Vigor cost to cast when you went 10 Mooncalf, rest into Warlord, and had x3 cost reduction enchants?

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

MonarchChief wrote: »

How much stam regen did you have in this video? Also, how much did Vigor cost to cast when you went 10 Mooncalf, rest into Warlord, and had x3 cost reduction enchants?

A good question to ask. Unfortunately I don't recall how much I had a the time. You could test this out for yourself though. Just try to find a cheap stamina move that you can spam and use a stop watch to compare results. This is primarily for people who fight aggressively of course. With my tank I have a more even distribution.

Sharee · November 2015

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Ashamray · December 2015

del

eNumbra · December 2015

Both.

Both is better.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

Both.

Both is better.

And I invest in both. I tested this just to see which one is best to favor over the other.

Frawr · December 2015

I mix both. I'd say that cost reduce is better unless you are stacking base regen because 20% of 500 is still bad whereas 2p% of 2000 is nice bonus.

I also put some into sprint cost and dodge roll cost and bash cost to take off the edge to the stam costs generally.

Shadesofkin · December 2015

Warlord is my preferred dump for the first 100 then I do the remaining in Mooncalf.

ThePonzzz · December 2015

They both have their pros and cons. Grabbing at least 10% in Warlord first was my priority because it helped with stamina management. I'm currently at 11% on Warlord and working on Mooncalf until I pop over 1600 stamina recovery (I'm at 1500+ with the new blue Wrothgar food).

leepalmer95 · December 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Unless your on console where to need to hold block first, making your regen 0 before you dodge roll.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Unless your on console where to need to hold block first, making your regen 0 before you dodge roll.

I'm on console. Yeah we got shafted with that update but I still think warlord is better. Currently I have 62 in warlord and 30 in Mooncalf

Sharee · December 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Unless your on console where to need to hold block first, making your regen 0 before you dodge roll.

Unless you keep holding that block after a roll forever, your stamina will start regenerating eventually, and that's where the mooncalf will help you.

leepalmer95 · December 2015

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Unless your on console where to need to hold block first, making your regen 0 before you dodge roll.

Unless you keep holding that block after a roll forever, your stamina will start regenerating eventually, and that's where the mooncalf will help you.

It's a big buggy, sometimes when i dodge roll he'll hold up block for half a second

Eejit1331 · December 2015

ThePonzzz wrote: »

They both have their pros and cons. Grabbing at least 10% in Warlord first was my priority because it helped with stamina management. I'm currently at 11% on Warlord and working on Mooncalf until I pop over 1600 stamina recovery (I'm at 1500+ with the new blue Wrothgar food).

I think this brings up a good point. Reduction is flat decrease among abilities that vary in cost depedent on the ability and increasing stamina regen can yield different result depending on the base regen number, so too little regen and reduction is the way to go and at higher stam regen the 25% increase will yield higher numbers as opposed to the 25% reduction, surpassing the benefit of cost reduction. This would be easy to figure out with excel. (Just need numbers).

*** just spit balling on the fly, but a variable to think about.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

They both have their pros and cons. Grabbing at least 10% in Warlord first was my priority because it helped with stamina management. I'm currently at 11% on Warlord and working on Mooncalf until I pop over 1600 stamina recovery (I'm at 1500+ with the new blue Wrothgar food).

I think this brings up a good point. Reduction is flat decrease among abilities that vary in cost depedent on the ability and increasing stamina regen can yield different result depending on the base regen number, so too little regen and reduction is the way to go and at higher stam regen the 25% increase will yield higher numbers as opposed to the 25% reduction, surpassing the benefit of cost reduction. This would be easy to figure out with excel. (Just need numbers).

*** just spit balling on the fly, but a variable to think about.

Hmm true. I believe my regen at the time was around 1800, and investing primarily in warlord dramatically increased the amount of times I could spam vigor. If I were a bosmer, and more spec'd for regen (say around 2400) I still don't think Mooncalf would be superior; however a 1:1 ratio may be best rather than the 2:1 I use currently.

Sharee · December 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keep in mind warlord does not help with roll dodging(it does not reduce the cost), but mooncalf does(it helps getting back the stamina spent). This increases the relative value of the latter for a character that relies on roll dodge for defense a lot.

Unless your on console where to need to hold block first, making your regen 0 before you dodge roll.

Unless you keep holding that block after a roll forever, your stamina will start regenerating eventually, and that's where the mooncalf will help you.

It's a big buggy, sometimes when i dodge roll he'll hold up block for half a second

I understand what you are saying, but mooncalf does not just work for half a second after a dodge roll, it works permanently.

So if you have to hold block while dodge rolling and half a second after, mooncalf does nothing during that time, but will kick in as soon as the block is released, and help you get back the stamina used up by the dodge roll.

Lil_Willie · January 2016

Build your character without CP first. If you have high recovery, then Moon calf is better since it spikes your recovery, if you can't get high recovery, then Warlord is your best bet

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Personally, I prioritize Reduction in PvE and Regen in PvP. In PvE, you are constantly casting in combat. At the extreme end of things you will be casting a stam/magic skill about every second for several minutes on a fight like serpant. In that scenario, you reduction is kicking in every second vs recovery which is every 2 seconds. In PvP, you spend a lot more time moving around. Other than burst down an appointment, it is not likely that you are going to cast 20 skills in 20 seconds, so regen is likely a bigger benefit. You should definitely put points into both.