Nirnhoned or precise for weapons

xxxDrDoom

I'm a dual wield magicka based templar DPS. Trying to maximize spell damage, spell crit and magicka regen. PS4 NA VR16.

Currently running 3 pieces of arch-mage, 3 willpower, (swords and neck), 2 cyrodiil rings and 4 pcs Magnus. Spell damage is at 2700, spell crit is 37%. Magicka and health around 20K (without buffs). I have around 120 champion points mostly in magicka, spell damage, etc. glyphs are mostly magicka, a couple of health and all jewelry is weapon damage. two pieces of armor are nirn, and the rest are either divines or infused.

I can go into more details, but looking for suggestions on how to improve stats over all. In particular and as the title says, the willpower stuff. They are both currently sharpened, but thinking about moving to set armor with nirnhoned. Thanks in advance.

FriedEggSandwich

I'd also be interested to know which one was "better", assuming both are now working as intended. Nirnhoned on a weapon will give you spell resistance too, which is nice. I heard that Sharpened is better if you stack cp into Spell Erosion, but there are better places to stack blue cp imo.

Aunatar

Why magnus when you coukd use martial knowledgw?

Asayre

The short version of the answer is use nirnhoned.

The long answer is just a copy-paste from another post of mine

To start off, I’ll begin again with the base damage formula

Base damage = Tooltip * Atk_Cp * Def_Cp * (1 - Mit)
where
Mit = Defender_Resist * (1-Penetration)/ 66000 - Attacker_Focus/66000 - 0.12*Spell Erosion

Mitigation can be rewritten to separate it into a base and penetration component

Mit = Defender_Resist/66000 – Attacker_Focus/66000 – 0.12*Spell Erosion – Defender_Resist*Penetration/66000

Mit = Mit_B – Mit_P

Where Mit_B is the first 3 terms and Mit_P is the last term.

The damage with Nirnhoned is then

Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B + Mit_P)*( 1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)
Thus the damage increase from using Nirnhoned is

Damage_Nirn = Tooltip*Mit_P*(1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)

In comparison, the damage with Precise is

Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*( 1-(Crit chance +Precise)+ (Crit Chance+Precise) * Crit multiplier)

The damage increase using Precise is

Damage_Precise = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*Precise*(Crit multiplier – 1)

To decide which to use, we need to consider Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise

Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise = Tooltip* (Mit_P * (1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier) – Precise*(1-Mit_B)*(Crit multiplier – 1)

As you can see, the tooltip value is not important in the evaluation process. Now there are four variables, namely, crit chance, crit multiplier and Mit_P and Mit_B. To simplify it a bit I’ll assume that the attacker has no penetration from any other sources (i.e. Attacker_Focus is 0 and has no champion points in Elfborn. Thus Mit_P and Mit_B can be computer from simply knowing Defender_Resist. Unfortunately this still leaves us with 3 variable which makes creating a graph rather difficult. I’ll provide some slices of Crit chance vs Crit multipler for different armour values. In the following set of graphs, blue means Precise is better and red means nirnhoned is better.









Below ~10000 resistance, precise is always better and above ~14000 resistance nirnhoned is always superior. Also having a high crit chance favours nirnhoned while having a high crit damage modifier favours precise. Recall that I have for simplication ignored penetration for Attacker Focus, Spell Erosion and Major Breach. Take that into account when fighting in Tamriel.

Most bosses in the old vet dungeons appear to have around 18k resistance and the bosses in the new vet dungeon appear to have around 22-23k resistance

Reeko

From my own experiance, Precise is good for doing quests and normal mode dungeons and nirn is better for pretty much everything else lol

xxxDrDoom

Thank you so much for the explanation. Now I need to reconfigure my gear.

2 Rings - Cyrodiil
Neck - Arch-Mage
2 Swords - Magnus
2 Armor - Magnus - Nirn
2 Armor - Arch-Mage - Divines or infused
3 Armor - Martial Knowledge - Divines or infused

Any other suggestions or combinations? I mostly play solo or PVP with folks, but have not yet been able to run many dungeons So some of the specialty items are not yet available to me.

Thanks again. DD

xxxDrDoom

Nirn on the swords.

Asayre

The Willpower set is really good and I don't see it in your last set. Have you considered using a greatsword in place of dual wielding swords? With high magicka (around 40k) and two points in the Heavy Weapons passive you can get more damage even if the extra set bonus from dual wielding is taken into consideration. You can read more on this subject on my other post (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212729/two-handed-or-dual-wield-for-magicka-builds#latest)

xxxDrDoom

Current set has willpower swords and neck. Precise and arcane respectively. Looking to see what's better. If going nirn on weapons, (I.e. Swords). A great sword doesn't help. Trying to maximize magicka based attacks.

Reeko

I'm currently running:
x3 Torug pact
x4 Magnus
x1 Bogdan
X3 Willpower

xxxDrDoom

Your build looks to be more stamina based. I'm magicka.

Dracane

Nirnhoned is better. The only scenario where precise is better, is for a 4 pet Sorcerer with 2 pets, Atronach and Daedroth. Because they all profit from the crit chance and might outdamage nirnhoned this way.

xxxDrDoom

That's what I read too. And since I'm a Templar, I have no pets.

Truewavesound

Don't put nirnhoned on (light) armour, for Keyne's sake ><

Don't use old build guides, assuming this is where you are getting this.

Argusus

Why not use Nirnhoned on light armor?

Argusus

Truewavesound wrote: »

Don't put nirnhoned on (light) armour, for Keyne's sake ><

Don't use old build guides, assuming this is where you are getting this.

Why not use Nirnhoned on light armor? Recommendations for alternatives?

Narnizzle

Since the recent changes to nirnhoned, it only scales off of your armor's spell resistance alone. Not your total spell resist. So putting it on light armor won't be so useful. I think divines or infused are good for armor pieces.

Truewavesound

Don't use Nirn on ANY armor, but especially not Light. Reinforced is a much better trait for most situations, if you want a defensive trait (still kinda pointless on light).

TBH i'm not sure why you would want a defensive trait on light armor anyway. Could you clarify intended purpose for this armor and/or why you feel you need a defensive trait?

Shader_Shibes

I was told nirn'd enchants on both dw weps doesnt stack, true or not?

miked83b14_ESO

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

I was told nirn'd enchants on both dw weps doesnt stack, true or not?

I share the same question. Does Nirnhoned stack on dual wield?

Truewavesound

miked83b14_ESO wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

I was told nirn'd enchants on both dw weps doesnt stack, true or not?

I share the same question. Does Nirnhoned stack on dual wield?

Please read the tooltips....you get half the benefit per 1H.