Cloak only an issue since imperial city?

Devotion

Ever since they bug fixed cloak alongside releasing IC cloak has been the center of attention for a lot of players. Did people not think mixing pve with pvp in tight sewers with hard hitting mobs that NB's wouldn't be the ones to shine? especially mixing pver's and pvper's together.

As a Magicka NB i can tell a huge difference between players who know how to play vs players in IC just for stones. If i fight an experienced player I usually find myself in a lot of trouble, between caltrops/detect pots/magelight/other AOE's/mark target. I don't have huge shields, I don't have class heals, I'm not super tanky.

I have been wrecked by abnormally tanky DK's who take flight for 10-15k dmg.
I have been wrecked by sorcs who can still streak multiple times and hit like a truck with 13k light attacks (overload or so)/crystal frag procs for 10k
I have been wrecked by templars who are competent and dont just smash their head on the keyboard hoping to out heal everything.
I have been wrecked by wrecking blow spammers who hit for 9k an attack

The list could go on for a while but oh cloak is the issue yes cloak. Take some time and learn how to play your class, ask for advice, ask for tips how to deal with something. Don't just come and cry nerf. This generation of MMO players are truly cancer.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Devotion wrote: »

Ever since they bug fixed cloak alongside releasing IC cloak has been the center of attention for a lot of players. Did people not think mixing pve with pvp in tight sewers with hard hitting mobs that NB's wouldn't be the ones to shine? especially mixing pver's and pvper's together.

As a Magicka NB i can tell a huge difference between players who know how to play vs players in IC just for stones. If i fight an experienced player I usually find myself in a lot of trouble, between caltrops/detect pots/magelight/other AOE's/mark target. I don't have huge shields, I don't have class heals, I'm not super tanky.

I have been wrecked by abnormally tanky DK's who take flight for 10-15k dmg.
I have been wrecked by sorcs who can still streak multiple times and hit like a truck with 13k light attacks (overload or so)/crystal frag procs for 10k
I have been wrecked by templars who are competent and dont just smash their head on the keyboard hoping to out heal everything.
I have been wrecked by wrecking blow spammers who hit for 9k an attack

The list could go on for a while but oh cloak is the issue yes cloak. Take some time and learn how to play your class, ask for advice, ask for tips how to deal with something. Don't just come and cry nerf. This generation of MMO players are truly cancer.

I hope this thread gets more attention. I have been arguing about this in another thread. There is so much misinformation about Radiant Magelight and gross exaggeration to the effectiveness of Cloak that I wouldn't be surprised if the devs had a knee jerk reaction and nerfed it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/218310/cloak-needs-a-nerf#latest

OdinForge

Devotion wrote: »

Ever since they bug fixed cloak alongside releasing IC cloak has been the center of attention for a lot of players. Did people not think mixing pve with pvp in tight sewers with hard hitting mobs that NB's wouldn't be the ones to shine? especially mixing pver's and pvper's together.

As a Magicka NB i can tell a huge difference between players who know how to play vs players in IC just for stones. If i fight an experienced player I usually find myself in a lot of trouble, between caltrops/detect pots/magelight/other AOE's/mark target. I don't have huge shields, I don't have class heals, I'm not super tanky.

I have been wrecked by abnormally tanky DK's who take flight for 10-15k dmg.
I have been wrecked by sorcs who can still streak multiple times and hit like a truck with 13k light attacks (overload or so)/crystal frag procs for 10k
I have been wrecked by templars who are competent and dont just smash their head on the keyboard hoping to out heal everything.
I have been wrecked by wrecking blow spammers who hit for 9k an attack

The list could go on for a while but oh cloak is the issue yes cloak. Take some time and learn how to play your class, ask for advice, ask for tips how to deal with something. Don't just come and cry nerf. This generation of MMO players are truly cancer.

For a lot of people it's easier to complain. The grass seems greener on the other side. I've played stamina NB since launch, and i never even mapped cloak until 1.6 dropped (used healing ward and purge instead). For as long as I've had experience with cloak, it's simply not as good as most people suggest. It's a necessity for some builds (like most magicka NB builds). It's less important for other builds (various stamina, tanky builds).

Seriously a stam build with lightning form or blade cloak, and caltrops. Or a high damage output templar using jabs and caltrops, wrecking blow.You can destroy a magicka NB so fast like this, using your AoE to pull and keep us out of stealth. I felt like cloak was more dangerous last patch, with damage being so high and concealed being undodgable. Cloak always feels to me more like an inconvenience for my enemies, or a delay to keep myself alive. I never feel like I'm destroying helpless players with cloak, if they aren't pressuring my HP I'm simply DPS spamming them with shields on out of stealth.

When i fight a decent magicka sorc, cloak is just a delay to breath a little. All my attacks feed their resources, their hardened ward and healing ward protect their HP. I don't get the frag burst and knock-down, so i have to cloak around them to avoid taking those frag knockdowns. The counter damage and defense simply isn't there, cloak is just a plot device so i don't die right away. Forgive us NB that don't understand entirely why cloak needs a nerf, ZOS should have simply put in some "better" anti-cloak abilities. But when i face a good player, my cloak is useless as is.

BEZDNA

it is an issue since the nerfed the only relieble conter to it as a detection potion

Xvorg

BEZDNA wrote: »

it is an issue since the nerfed the only relieble conter to it as a detection potion

Cloak is not the problem, the atack next to cloak probably is

Devotion

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this

I just hope ZOS don't give in to the whines.

My group of 4 just ran into an organised mini Zerg of around 8, they had Caltrops everywhere, used Flare and just obliterated me and the other Nb in our group.

If we managed to kite at all they popped detect pots and again we were severely gimped.

The fact they were 8 didn't really mean that much but the way they played utilised the skills in the game and they countered us perfectly.

Omgwtfbbq321

Have they changed the way detection potions work against nightblade cloaks in this patch?

Master_Kas

Alot of whiners use "you can cloak into npcs and if I use Any aoe I get all the agro".

While this is true in IC they convienently "forget" that cyrodiil is not like IC.

They also claim they don't want to use Any counters for whatever reason , while most decent players seem to counter cloak quite well. There are even some duelers I fight with who do very well with nbs without using det pots or aoe.


I'm Done arguing with Those people. After cloak nerf they will whine about it again to get it further nerfed. Perhaps even about fear too.

Kill alot of nubz, get them to whine about how OP cloak is instead and get a good laugh

blur

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alot of whiners use "you can cloak into npcs and if I use Any aoe I get all the agro".

While this is true in IC they convienently "forget" that cyrodiil is not like IC.

They also claim they don't want to use Any counters for whatever reason , while most decent players seem to counter cloak quite well. There are even some duelers I fight with who do very well with nbs without using det pots or aoe.


I'm Done arguing with Those people. After cloak nerf they will whine about it again to get it further nerfed. Perhaps even about fear too.

Kill alot of nubz, get them to whine about how OP cloak is instead and get a good laugh

Meanwhile DKs and Templars make IC their toilet.

rfennell_ESO

Cloak is certainly not op in cyro.

The issue in IC is mostly due to the presence of relatively powerful npcs and the ability of cloak to bypass them.

The "realistic" solution would just to allow daedra in IC to see stealth and invis.

The likely solution will be a ZOS kneejerk reaction to cloak, that isn't broken anywhere else, to break it for everywhere else.

Lava_Croft

Dark Joke turned into a Dark Yoke.

nordickittyhawk

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219654/to-those-who-think-dark-cloak-needs-a-nerf#latest

demustacio

Devotion wrote: »

Ever since they bug fixed cloak alongside releasing IC cloak has been the center of attention for a lot of players. Did people not think mixing pve with pvp in tight sewers with hard hitting mobs that NB's wouldn't be the ones to shine? especially mixing pver's and pvper's together.

As a Magicka NB i can tell a huge difference between players who know how to play vs players in IC just for stones. If i fight an experienced player I usually find myself in a lot of trouble, between caltrops/detect pots/magelight/other AOE's/mark target. I don't have huge shields, I don't have class heals, I'm not super tanky.

I have been wrecked by abnormally tanky DK's who take flight for 10-15k dmg.
I have been wrecked by sorcs who can still streak multiple times and hit like a truck with 13k light attacks (overload or so)/crystal frag procs for 10k
I have been wrecked by templars who are competent and dont just smash their head on the keyboard hoping to out heal everything.
I have been wrecked by wrecking blow spammers who hit for 9k an attack

The list could go on for a while but oh cloak is the issue yes cloak. Take some time and learn how to play your class, ask for advice, ask for tips how to deal with something. Don't just come and cry nerf. This generation of MMO players are truly cancer.

Hearing someone with the same thought that i have is a good feeling. I personally think - and most of my friends who are not a Nightblade - that cloak is not a problem to deal with. Stop giving NBs some flaming just because they can cloak their way out. Listen to OP and "Take some time and learn how to play your class, ask for advice, ask for tips how to deal with something. Don't just come and cry nerf." as the OP said.

IF the devs decided to nerf cloak, i sure hope they nerf it in a reasonable way unlike the dodge fatigue nerf (as in my own opinion it's rough for the spam builds, and not just for NBs) that they did. But i guess we'll just have to wait and see on what the devs will do.

Regards,
demustacio

Hyssia

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alot of whiners use "you can cloak into npcs and if I use Any aoe I get all the agro".

While this is true in IC they convienently "forget" that cyrodiil is not like IC.

They also claim they don't want to use Any counters for whatever reason , while most decent players seem to counter cloak quite well. There are even some duelers I fight with who do very well with nbs without using det pots or aoe.


I'm Done arguing with Those people. After cloak nerf they will whine about it again to get it further nerfed. Perhaps even about fear too.

Kill alot of nubz, get them to whine about how OP cloak is instead and get a good laugh

Pretty much this. Cloak frustrates ppl cuz it's one of those abilities that you'll remember the most, you may have been wrecking blowed to death by the same guy 16 times today, but the one you're truly mad at is the guy who stealthed away with 300 HP (After you hit a 9k crystal, 10k wrecking blow, 10k dragon leap or 14k dawnbreaker), it's his fault you've had such a *** day

Docmandu

Wish I had a skill that negates all single target attacks for 4 seconds with such a low resource cost...

The stealthing, removal of DoTs, attack bonus on next attack and speed boost I'd even give up on...

.. see what I did there ..

Araxleon

Honestly im 100% fine with any cloaknerf if they remove all counters (even taking damage wont break you out)
Only people that complain are to lazy to fit in a counter, the people who actually use a counter do fine.

Just a side not, people only hate cloak because of the city and the power to avoid mobs I could perma cloak way more last patch then this patch so I found it odd people complained.

Cloak isnt OP and the amount of current counters are ridiculous
But overall cloak was stronger last patch (more regen)
Cloak is honestly popular because it makes it easy to get tel var stones thats mainly it.

(Example - Last patch I could perma cloak and keep 100% mana ready to attack, This patch you cant really do the same, sometimes I start fights at 20% - 50% mana)

Lava_Croft

Araxleon wrote: »

Honestly im 100% fine with any cloaknerf if they remove all counters (even taking damage wont break you out)
Only people that complain are to lazy to fit in a counter, the people who actually use a counter do fine.

Just a side not, people only hate cloak because of the city and the power to avoid mobs I could perma cloak way more last patch then this patch so I found it odd people complained.

Cloak isnt OP and the amount of current counters are ridiculous
But overall cloak was stronger last patch (more regen)
Cloak is honestly popular because it makes it easy to get tel var stones thats mainly it.

(Example - Last patch I could perma cloak and keep 100% mana ready to attack, This patch you cant really do the same, sometimes I start fights at 20% - 50% mana)

They will find something else to cry about after they realize that nerfing Cloak did in fact not make them any less *** at ESO.

Master_Kas

Docmandu wrote: »

Wish I had a skill that negates all single target attacks for 4 seconds with such a low resource cost...

The stealthing, removal of DoTs, attack bonus on next attack and speed boost I'd even give up on...

.. see what I did there ..

Speed boost in cloak? Its combined with other skills as doubletake/rapid manouvers, hasty retreat or vampirism + concealed weapon (which is a magicka morph) .

Low resource cost? For a magicka nightblade yes. For a stamina one? Yeah

Waffennacht

What made me angry with cloak was that 3 players, him under CC, can break CC and go back into cloak and evade instantly.

Even that I dealt with fine as it was their ability... even though bolt got the treatment for the exact same reason...

What really got me was last night. I was doing quests. Was suddenly ambused by a very skilled player.

Each time he got low on health, resources etc. He would CC break, cloak, dis aggro my pets and regen. Then he would re-attack. This happened three times.

The battle ended when my weapons failed to switc and I spammed the wrong move, in PvP those few seconds is all it takes for death.

I died from my mistake, a mistake that happened because this opponent could engage and disengage me at will. He would be beyond my detect potion radius and use WB spam to close the gap.

I just want the use Mage light, use AoE, or skills that require high PvP skill tree levels as counter comments to stop.

These all are extremely weak. Oh btw what move do you "have" to have to face a Sorc? Or Dk? Or templar to stand a chance? Not a one, but NB's argument against being OP is "use horrid abilities that are useless against 75% of the field dur"

Stop acting like after the nerfs that cloak isn't a stand out. It use to be fair before all the comparable skills for the other classes got nerfed

Forestd16b14_ESO

Yay another thread trying to explain how cloak isn't OP this is what the 30th one? The fact that a player can basicly reset there stealth attack over and over again and the few ways of stopping it has gotten nerf to be nearly useless proves at how OP cloak has become and cloak needs fixed.

heystreethawk

Excellent points, OP and others.

People forget two things:

- Players who spam abilities, or at least very noticeably rely on one ability at a glance, do so at the expense of a wider knowledge of game mechanics. They often don't understand the other skills available to their own class, to say nothing of other classes, or universally unlocked abilities. I ran into three other magicka Nightblades in the city last night -- I've been one since launch, adapting with each update -- and at the start of these 1v1s, I would hit them with Piercing Mark, for the obvious reasons.

What did they do to counter my counter?

They kept trying to cloak anyway. They either didn't know what Piercing Mark did -- and this is another Nightblade skill, remember -- or they didn't know that Dark Cloak, the skill they were spamming, only purges a specific kind of thing. I killed them, and while that act of violence rendered their children into orphans, I will raise them as my own; they will never know that their biological father was not a very good Nightblade.

Which brings me to my next point:

- People ignore the abilities available to counter cloak only because they are not abilities which they are already in the habit of using. Don't be lazy; the Nightblades I described above were too lazy to slot purge, so I killed them.

You can slot Piercing Mark, or Caltrops, or Revealing Flare, or Radiant Magelight, or Thundering Presence, or Boundless Storm, or any cheap AoE. Spend time getting used to these skills, because they are useful for more than one thing. If it strikes you as a massive inconvenience to change your bar up in order to counter one particular play style in one particular environment, I suspect you may have more than one problem afoot. If you think it reasonable that you should be able to effectively counter every play style with whatever it is you are already doing, already familiar with, you may also suffer from ulcers, bruised knuckles, or what my grandmother (herself a Nightblade) referred to only as Clampfoot. Adapt and get better.

Araxleon

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yay another thread trying to explain how cloak isn't OP this is what the 30th one? The fact that a player can basicly reset there stealth attack over and over again and the few ways of stopping it has gotten nerf to be nearly useless proves at how OP cloak has become and cloak needs fixed.

Another comment from a player to lazy to slot a counter for cloak, this is like what the 50th one this week?
Seriously, use flare or caltrops or the many other tools at your disposal.

Xvorg

Araxleon wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yay another thread trying to explain how cloak isn't OP this is what the 30th one? The fact that a player can basicly reset there stealth attack over and over again and the few ways of stopping it has gotten nerf to be nearly useless proves at how OP cloak has become and cloak needs fixed.

Another comment from a player to lazy to slot a counter for cloak, this is like what the 50th one this week?
Seriously, use flare or caltrops or the many other tools at your disposal.

What if we change the class name from "Nightblade" to "Dayblade"? It will make sense with the suggested nerfs

heystreethawk

Waffennacht wrote: »

I just want the use Mage light, use AoE, or skills that require high PvP skill tree levels as counter comments to stop.

These all are extremely weak. Oh btw what move do you "have" to have to face a Sorc? Or Dk? Or templar to stand a chance? Not a one, but NB's argument against being OP is "use horrid abilities that are useless against 75% of the field dur"

No, they're extremely useful skills. Perhaps you feel this way because they do not do large amounts of burst damage, whereas the other skills on your bar do? Damage alone will not dictate success in a small scale combat environment. You need to be able to adapt to a rapidly shifting situation, and utilize an array of different skills to your advantage; don't make the mistake of only familiarizing yourself with the abilities that hit really hard.

If you're not willing to use skills that reveal players in stealth -- forgive my tone here, but that is what you are saying, that you are unwilling to use them -- you are conceding an advantage to players in stealth. That is the consequence of your decision. If you're not willing to spend enough time with an unfamiliar skill to become adept with it, or if you're not willing to PvP for long enough to unlock the higher ranking PvP skills, you are making the decision to place yourself in a permanent disadvantage. Of the skills you can use to SPECIFICALLY bring enemies out of stealth (e.g. not a regular AoE attack), only Revealing Flare lacks an additional, highly useful secondary effect unrelated to stealth. The other skills offer extra benefits that could strengthen other areas of your gameplay.

RE: the second part of what you said - there is no skill required to defeat any particular class, but there are types of skills that make it a lot easier to fight all four of the classes. Successful PvPers run some combination of these counters, and I'm including a list of skills that are particularly useful when fighting Nightblades:

- CC/stun (such as Aspect of Terror, Eclipse/several Aedric Spear skills, Streak, Petrify, Stonefist, Destructive Touch, Scatter Shot, Reverberating Bash, Shield Charge, Roar, Piercing Howl)

- Gap closer (such as Teleport Strike, Toppling Charge, Bolt Escape, Chains, Shield Charge, Critical Rush, Pounce)

- Roots/snares (such as Cripple, Encase, Daedric Mines, Sun Fire, Dark Talons, Ash Cloud, DK Warmth passive, Bombard, Draining Shot, Rending Slashes, Hidden Blade, Low Slash, Stampede, Caltrops)

- AoE attacks (such as Sap Essence, Puncturing Strikes, Spear Shards, Daedric Mines, Heavy Overload, Lightning Form, Lightning Splash, Streak, Fiery Breath, Inferno, Volatile Armor, Dark Talons, Inhale, Ash Cloud, Cleave, Whirlwind, Blade Cloak, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Necrotic Orb, Mystic Orb)

- Specific anti-stealth measures (such as Piercing Mark, Radiant Magelight, Caltrops, Revealing Flare)


If none of these skills appeal to you, I don't know what to say.

Docmandu

Master_Kas wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Wish I had a skill that negates all single target attacks for 4 seconds with such a low resource cost...

The stealthing, removal of DoTs, attack bonus on next attack and speed boost I'd even give up on...

.. see what I did there ..

Speed boost in cloak? Its combined with other skills as doubletake/rapid manouvers, hasty retreat or vampirism + concealed weapon (which is a magicka morph) .

Low resource cost? For a magicka nightblade yes. For a stamina one? Yeah

Yes low resource cost... try to dodge roll for the same amount of time and you'll notice how low cost it is.. not even counting all the additional benefits.

QuebraRegra

I'm a magiblade and I'll tell you it's a problem in regular PVP as well.

The issue at hand is that no one seems to really understand the problem. The problem is that CLOAK is not the real issue. In the previous patch a cloaker could be hit even occasionally, between cloaks with the dmg being enuff to kill them.

How about a total 50% dmg nerf combined with cloak?

Somebody explain why it was a good idea to create a 50% dmg nerf in PVP? Y'know what, don't even bother trying.

OUT.

Moglijuana

Docmandu wrote: »

Wish I had a skill that negates all single target attacks for 4 seconds with such a low resource cost...

The stealthing, removal of DoTs, attack bonus on next attack and speed boost I'd even give up on...

.. see what I did there ..

4 seconds? no. more like 2.9.

low resource cost? I can use it exactly 5 times on my stam NB (realistically 3-4 at most since I use another magicka skill)

Dot removal? morph

Attack bonus? the OTHER morph

speed boost? concealed weap, vampire, double take, rapid maneuvers

Literally the ONLY thing you got correct was the single target damage negation. When you compare that to all the other type of damage mitigation EVERY OTHER CLASS has, its literally the ONLY type of defense a NB has. I have NO problem killing cloak spamming NB's on any of my characters. I guess all the cry babies just need to be spoon fed for boring PvP combat where everyone one uses the same abilities.

leepalmer95

heystreethawk wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I just want the use Mage light, use AoE, or skills that require high PvP skill tree levels as counter comments to stop.

These all are extremely weak. Oh btw what move do you "have" to have to face a Sorc? Or Dk? Or templar to stand a chance? Not a one, but NB's argument against being OP is "use horrid abilities that are useless against 75% of the field dur"

No, they're extremely useful skills. Perhaps you feel this way because they do not do large amounts of burst damage, whereas the other skills on your bar do? Damage alone will not dictate success in a small scale combat environment. You need to be able to adapt to a rapidly shifting situation, and utilize an array of different skills to your advantage; don't make the mistake of only familiarizing yourself with the abilities that hit really hard.

If you're not willing to use skills that reveal players in stealth -- forgive my tone here, but that is what you are saying, that you are unwilling to use them -- you are conceding an advantage to players in stealth. That is the consequence of your decision. If you're not willing to spend enough time with an unfamiliar skill to become adept with it, or if you're not willing to PvP for long enough to unlock the higher ranking PvP skills, you are making the decision to place yourself in a permanent disadvantage. Of the skills you can use to SPECIFICALLY bring enemies out of stealth (e.g. not a regular AoE attack), only Revealing Flare lacks an additional, highly useful secondary effect unrelated to stealth. The other skills offer extra benefits that could strengthen other areas of your gameplay.

RE: the second part of what you said - there is no skill required to defeat any particular class, but there are types of skills that make it a lot easier to fight all four of the classes. Successful PvPers run some combination of these counters, and I'm including a list of skills that are particularly useful when fighting Nightblades:

- CC/stun (such as Aspect of Terror, Eclipse/several Aedric Spear skills, Streak, Petrify, Stonefist, Destructive Touch, Scatter Shot, Reverberating Bash, Shield Charge, Roar, Piercing Howl)

- Gap closer (such as Teleport Strike, Toppling Charge, Bolt Escape, Chains, Shield Charge, Critical Rush, Pounce)

- Roots/snares (such as Cripple, Encase, Daedric Mines, Sun Fire, Dark Talons, Ash Cloud, DK Warmth passive, Bombard, Draining Shot, Rending Slashes, Hidden Blade, Low Slash, Stampede, Caltrops)

- AoE attacks (such as Sap Essence, Puncturing Strikes, Spear Shards, Daedric Mines, Heavy Overload, Lightning Form, Lightning Splash, Streak, Fiery Breath, Inferno, Volatile Armor, Dark Talons, Inhale, Ash Cloud, Cleave, Whirlwind, Blade Cloak, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Necrotic Orb, Mystic Orb)

- Specific anti-stealth measures (such as Piercing Mark, Radiant Magelight, Caltrops, Revealing Flare)


If none of these skills appeal to you, I don't know what to say.

So the anti nb's measures are:

a nb skill...
A rank 6 alliance war ability
A rank 7 alliance war ability
A skill for magicka users, that requires two skill slots.

eNumbra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

that requires two skill slots.

Repeat the lie.
Repeat the lie.
Repeat the lie.

It worked for the Nazis too.

MonoAlva

Wrecking blow spammers are actually driving me mad,i cant just understand which is the fun part of using just 1 skill to nuke/cc/and finally kill the enemy.

heystreethawk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So the anti nb's measures are:

a nb skill...
A rank 6 alliance war ability
A rank 7 alliance war ability
A skill for magicka users, that requires two skill slots.

Plus the 23 or so AoE skills I listed right above those four skills, all of which will pull a NB out of stealth -- and then the various skills above those 23 or so skills, which will assist in such endeavors.