Heavy attack for 40 damage against a player...?

MaximillianDiE

c.gregoryb14_ESO wrote: »

I was in a group with this character the other day, certainly a Terror to the Tots

I thought you were going to make your build public after the IC patch as it wouldn't work any longer. Haven't seen that anywhere - have they not fixed it?

Recremen

Joy_Division wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I play on EU so I don't even know the guy, but I have been fascinated by this for some time. After I saw a vid of him doing this post IC patch I couldn't helped myself and tried to figure out the trick. I did some investigation and come up with some interesting results. Although I failed to reproduce the effect maybe the clues I got will help others to pursue this deeper and eventually discover how it works.

My investigation is related only to his sorc build as I haven't seen him doing it on his templar yet. All the information I got comes from countless threads on this forum concerning his actions, youtube videos and their comments. Also nothing I mention here should be taken for granted as all this is simply speculation. But this is what I know so far:

1: I believe this mitigation trick comes from a broken game mechanic which is a result of an items/skill combination. The reason I say "broken" despite that both ZOS and the player in question said that it is nothing more then a smart build, is because all the top players, theorycrafters and community warriors failed to reproduce this effect as well as the fact that there is no officially known game data that could potentially be the source of this trick. Simply saying, if you go through all the skills, all the gear and all the possible combinations, there is nothing in the game that would render such an effect. If it is, it his hidden from the public knowledge, thus I say its broken.

2: From the information I gathered this is limited to a sorcerer and a templar, this is because these are the only classes with channeled skills and most of the long casting skills then other. I believe this is not the core of the issue here but it significantly boost up the main trick.

3: This incredible mitigation that this player is achieving is not permanent, there are spikes where you will do normal damage to him, or at least slightly reduced damage, however this doesn't happen often, as he makes sure his trick stays on most of the time.

4: It seems a vampire and Light of Cyrodill set is a must for this, but again it is not the trick core, this servers as another boost.

I went in to analyzing the videos the player posted on youtube and I believe I got somewhere near to discovering the secret. I believe the mitigation hes acquiring comes from four main elements of his build.


- mitigation he gets from gear [physical/spell resistances]
- mitigation from LoC set
- mitigation from undeath passive.
- - "mitigation buff"

I believe this "mitigiation buff" is the core of the trick, it is undocumented short time buff that gives him well above 60-70% damage reduction from all sources. It lasts anything from 3 sec to 30 sec. I believe it is a proc effect, that triggers only when the player is engaging combat, more precisely when he attacks other players. When I watched his videos I noticed his health bar starts glowing as soon he makes an attack, tho he blurred it out you can see the buff kicks in and the bar starts to glow:



During that period his mitigation is increased by a lot, a really lot. When the buff is not active he takes normal damage, thus he is using LoC set and channeled skills to maintain damage reduction, as well as undeath passive. Now, all off this stack with this buff, resulting in a damage mitigation getting closed to 98% when on low health. The only way to kill him then is to perma CC him when the buff is not active, but the moment he fights back, the buff kicks in and it his mitigation skyrockets.

I do not know any item/set combo that would grant such an effect, but I'm pretty sure this is his trick, that buff combined with LoC set/channels as well with undeath passive is what makes him virtually unkillable.

Using Empowering Sweep in large groups causes a huge amount of mitigation and last something like 8 seconds for only 72 ultimate. I'm pretty sure that's the key, and I'm pretty sure that's stacking with the Undeath passive in unintended ways. Unless it is intended, in which case everyone should do this until it becomes "unintended".

You are 100% wrong. Its not the Tempalr Ultimate. He has the dmg mitgation perma

I'm pretty sure I saw him using it but lol OK I'll be over here staying 100% wrong.

I'm pretty sure I have never come across a different Vr8 templar who used this ability and had to be treated like a Raid boss.

Well yeah I'm not saying that the mitigation is intended, or, if intended by the developers, that I agree with the design decision, I'm just saying that there's a difference between "THEY HAXED THE ZOS" and "This person is using a build and skill rotation that results in incredibly high mitigation."

Recremen

Fruitdog wrote: »

Also, he had the same damage mitigation on his sorc and the sorc has no such ultimate.

Well yeah, it turns out that there are multiple ways to get way high mitigation. ZOS potentially fixed what he was doing with the sorc, indicated by how he was on the forums here saying that he was retiring the character. This new build is probably the result of theorycrafting done before/since then. The person is all about mitigation builds and went so far as to make the claim that they've helped others build high mit characters. IDK I think it's way more likely that this is an issue of game mechanics acting in a way that many players don't like than for someone to be hacking the game. You want to know what people who could hack the game did? They flew around under the map at 50000% speed gathering resource nodes to sell with real-world money. They didn't bum around on some bloodless lizard dealing crap damage and surviving for an extra minute and a half longer than other players of similar skill.

Yonkit

Recremen wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Also, he had the same damage mitigation on his sorc and the sorc has no such ultimate.

Well yeah, it turns out that there are multiple ways to get way high mitigation. ZOS potentially fixed what he was doing with the sorc, indicated by how he was on the forums here saying that he was retiring the character. This new build is probably the result of theorycrafting done before/since then. The person is all about mitigation builds and went so far as to make the claim that they've helped others build high mit characters. IDK I think it's way more likely that this is an issue of game mechanics acting in a way that many players don't like than for someone to be hacking the game. You want to know what people who could hack the game did? They flew around under the map at 50000% speed gathering resource nodes to sell with real-world money. They didn't bum around on some bloodless lizard dealing crap damage and surviving for an extra minute and a half longer than other players of similar skill.

... the templar had the same mitigation as the sorc previous to this patch. He just didn't use it as much back then. I'm still confused why 90% dmg mitigation when not blocking is attempting to be justified as an intended "in game" mechanic.

But then again.. ZoS could very easily take a gander at his gear setup, figure out what's going on and do something about it. C'est la vie. Really the problem here is the lazy devs and an inane forum structure that has us going around saying "B" and "G" like a bunch of stupid hens.

Otherwise, all the folks who keep trying to math it out... shush. You're silly.

Recremen

Yonkit wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Also, he had the same damage mitigation on his sorc and the sorc has no such ultimate.

Well yeah, it turns out that there are multiple ways to get way high mitigation. ZOS potentially fixed what he was doing with the sorc, indicated by how he was on the forums here saying that he was retiring the character. This new build is probably the result of theorycrafting done before/since then. The person is all about mitigation builds and went so far as to make the claim that they've helped others build high mit characters. IDK I think it's way more likely that this is an issue of game mechanics acting in a way that many players don't like than for someone to be hacking the game. You want to know what people who could hack the game did? They flew around under the map at 50000% speed gathering resource nodes to sell with real-world money. They didn't bum around on some bloodless lizard dealing crap damage and surviving for an extra minute and a half longer than other players of similar skill.

... the templar had the same mitigation as the sorc previous to this patch. He just didn't use it as much back then. I'm still confused why 90% dmg mitigation when not blocking is attempting to be justified as an intended "in game" mechanic.

But then again.. ZoS could very easily take a gander at his gear setup, figure out what's going on and do something about it. C'est la vie. Really the problem here is the lazy devs and an inane forum structure that has us going around saying "B" and "G" like a bunch of stupid hens.

Otherwise, all the folks who keep trying to math it out... shush. You're silly.

I don't remember ever running into his Templar before IC so I never had the impetus to try to figure out how it worked. For the record, I absolutely don't think it's OK to get that kind of mitigation without blocking, and I really hope the devs don't either. I'm just trying to curb the nonsense hack accusations which, honestly, are probably distracting from solving the underlying problem.

It's also possible that they aren't allowed by their legal department to target a player for an inordinate amount of scrutiny. They might be able to investigate claims of hacking (and surprise surprise, find nothing), but if people don't actually know how someone is achieving a broken build, they might have their hands tied. I really don't know, but the idea that the devs are just sitting around blithely unaware of the problem with their fingers in their ears is also ludicrous.

People who are trying to math it out are actually doing more to try to solve it than blaming "lazy" devs. It's a lot better to figure out the skills the person is using and the passives they might be benefiting from than to just pass the blame to people willy-nilly.

RoxyPhoenix

c.gregoryb14_ESO wrote: »

I was in a group with this character the other day, certainly a Terror to the Tots

You must be havin a lot of fun reading this, but c'mon, give us a hint, we are really tryin hard to figure out ur build

Psilent

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is insane! Several people complaining here were exploiting big time last patch; double/triple mundus stones, double maces, inner light on overload bar, etc. Please if you exploited last patch the door is over there you have no right to comment in this thread asking for bans on exploiters.

Takllin

Psilent wrote: »

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is insane! Several people complaining here were exploiting big time last patch; double/triple mundus stones, double maces, inner light on overload bar, etc. Please if you exploited last patch the door is over there you have no right to comment in this thread asking for bans on exploiters.

Confirmed guildie.

What about those of us who didn't exploit a darned thing? Hmm?

Recremen

Psilent wrote: »

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is insane! Several people complaining here were exploiting big time last patch; double/triple mundus stones, double maces, inner light on overload bar, etc. Please if you exploited last patch the door is over there you have no right to comment in this thread asking for bans on exploiters.

Totes agree, though that phrasing does kind of lead one to believe that there's something under-the-radar about this build.

PhatGrimReaper

Ran into the lizard the other night, he pretty much stood there with 8-10 dudes whaling on him for 5min+ and never fell bellow 10% HP.... I can't speak for all of the people in that group, but at least three of us hit reasonably hard and we barely made a dent in him.

I'm not one to throw around allegations about anything without proof, but this is absurd. If this is a case of "working as intended, then the intentions are f****d.

ScarecrowBoat

The lizard after i hardcasted 10 frags at him

PainfulFAFA

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ran into the lizard the other night, he pretty much stood there with 8-10 dudes whaling on him for 5min+ and never fell bellow 10% HP.... I can't speak for all of the people in that group, but at least three of us hit reasonably hard and we barely made a dent in him.

I'm not one to throw around allegations about anything without proof, but this is absurd. If this is a case of "working as intended, then the intentions are f****d.

Instead of ban, zos is going to give the guy props for such a creative build lol

Zheg

Psilent wrote: »

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is insane! Several people complaining here were exploiting big time last patch; double/triple mundus stones, double maces, inner light on overload bar, etc. Please if you exploited last patch the door is over there you have no right to comment in this thread asking for bans on exploiters.

First, I'll point out that none of the exploits you mentioned would elevate a v8 to being any kind of a significant threat, nor grant a nigh-unkillable status. Second, I'll point out that if everyone and their mother runs the exploits you mentioned (any pretty much everybody did) pvp can still continue and wouldn't be affected all that much - but if nearly everybody were to exploit like public enemy #1, pvp would be utterly ruined. The ONLY reason he's allowed to continue exploiting is probably because ZOS isn't competent enough to code a fix and hundreds of players haven't taken up his favorite exploit and forced ZOS to make it a priority. Third, I'll point out that I could give a flying you-know-what about gaining a slight advantage running a 2nd mundus stone and didn't exploit at all. So, no, there's no hypocrisy coming from this blue right here.

You know what I DO find hypocritical? A prominent EP pvp guild that has significantly improved and wants to be respected (and at first glance should), but then invites this guy to guild and actually runs around Cyrodiil with him. Yeah, sorry, but anyone who isn't a complete mouth-breather would be sickened to see this guy in their pvp party. Does that help with guild recruitment or something? "Hey guys! we run pvp nightly in large-organized groups, and you can get tips on exploiting from the best known exploiter in all of ESO!"

Be grateful that the forum moderators watch threads about our public enemy #1 like hawks and drop name and shame bans like candy unlike the mods in charge of banning players in game that take a 1.5 year long siesta.

willymchilybily

No idea the who B" and G" is you guys are on about, surely If you didnt say i expect (Name) of exploiting but instead. I wish i knew (name)'s build its so hard to kill, the mods wouldn't have to delete names. Name and fame > Name and shame no?

or is it time for me to read the forum rules properly?

anyway be interested to know how someone makes a sorcerer unkillable. iv seen the likes of "blazing templar" and sheliza's "unkillable" DK. but never a Sorc that was un-killable. Presumable was 1.6 pre shield breaker?

assuming the guy/girl is not exploiting I say good on him, making a VR7 templar that is annoying enough to get some mention alluded to in the forums and playing it well enough to be annoying.

xaraan

Every experienced player knows who these guys are.

Gotta love hitting someone with an execute when they are under 20% with no shield up and doing zero damage. I don't care what mitigation you have going on, that shouldn't be happening.

RoxyPhoenix

The problem isnt really about what he is doing, but rather the fact that NONE of the best theorycrafters, builders and even other exploiters can replicate this. Thats what really gets ppl mad.

Recremen

I hit him a few times for over 3k last night and a few more for over 1k, I'm worried he's starting to slip in his execution.

Shaggygaming

I want to be a Templar raid boss.

Crown

@RoxyPhoenix The problem is in fact what he is doing.

Have you ever used a fully charged heavy attack from a fire staff, then swapped bars and used a fully charge heavy attack with an ice staff on the same person, all the while casting a funnel health? Even if you have not, you can guesstimate the damage numbers that should occur. When by some miracle the 14 people in your group all attacking that same person for about 90 seconds get him to 18% health, you then start casting Impale (EXECUTE) on him, and see your Impales do LESS DAMAGE than your funnels or heavy attacks (which were doing under 100 damage each to begin with) for about 35 seconds (more time than any mitigation could provide) continuously. That is less than 1% damage taken, or greater than 99% damage mitigation for a LOT longer than any skills or gear are capable of providing.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler There are videos of this player standing immobile not using skills and taking little to damage with 20+ opponents doing their best to kill him. This should be taken to the combat skills team.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There are videos of this player repairing walls and taking little to no damage with 20+ opponents doing their best to kill him WHILE HE REPAIRS WALLS. There have been hundreds of reports made about this. We would appreciate at least a, "We're looking into it" from you.

Lava_Croft

It's the Argonian racial passives. They are OP.

Shaggygaming

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's the Argonian racial passives. They are OP.

Is this an attempt to have my Argonian brothers nerfed?

mrvbalc

I just tested my dps against one of my DC friend who is running tanky temp dps build (with maxed up resist). I can do upto 6k heavy attack damage, yet i cannot do more than 600 damage to THAT templar argonian EP player even when he is in middle fight against 7 of my grp members. I just learned This argonian Templar is an alt of that infamous sorc player against whom we all reported probably more than 100 times (damage shield exploit).

So Question to ZOS: When did you make exploiting legit in this game???
If so please add a guide in Help window in game with title "how to exploit"

RoxyPhoenix

I was at work when I checked this topic and I saw that our beloved hero posted a reply by quoting Crowns latest entry along with this picture I believe
and a statement that went something like "awww, did the crown just flipped over" cant remember exactly.

Why was this post deleted!?

Crown

In response to the PM asking my stats, this is my character window with the gear I use most of the time (and what I used when taking notes of damage as described above):

rfennell_ESO

Welcome to fighting the EP hacks of the NA servers.

ZOS, lol they do nothing.

It's become prevalent to fight EP and have to deal with a cheat, and by prevalent I very well mean the norm.

PainfulFAFA

Reported the guy just so zos would take a look into it.
This was the response:
TL;DR : Use the ignore button lmfao.





Is it really intended for a v8-10 to be able to tank multiple v16's while mitigating 80%+ damage from EACH player?

Alcast

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Reported the guy just so zos would take a look into it.
This was the response:
TL;DR : Use the ignore button lmfao.





Is it really intended for a v8-10 to be able to tank multiple v16's while mitigating 80%+ damage from EACH player?

no lol, ZOS just too "unexperienced" to see that he exploits stuff haha. /zoslogic

Basically what zos says, It is oka to exploit, just go with it, we will not ban you

ItsRejectz

How can people say it's a build that utilizes mitigation mechanics, he's wearing full 5 light Phoenix set!! What exactly could anyone use in the remaing slots that provides such high mitigation that player can mitigate over 90% of the damage without blocking or casting any skills....

People need to stop being stupid, it's an expoit and that's the simple fact

Garion

There isn't any point in reporting it.

Case in point: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157757/thornblade-eu-right-now/p1

There have been numerous bugs in this game that have been exploited (double mundus, overload exploit etc) - yes lots of people used them, and ZOS should have fixed them faster, but the fact is they couldn't ban all of those people...

There are key examples of only a limited pool of players find exploits such as these and abuse them to this extent however. They could easily ban these people, particularly where the evidence is beyond question. Yet they don't bother. Like I said, at this point the only explanation is that it's @ZOS_BrianWheeler himself running around and that's why this crap doesn't get fixed!

glavius

Didn't even know you could get Phoenix below vr15