Werewolf 10% stam increase removed, why?

Mr_Bubbely

You used to get a 10% stam increase even if you werent in werewolf form.
Now you dont get that buff while not in werewolf form.
This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.
10/10 guys bravo.
Anyone else have some feeedback on this?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

You used to get a 10% stam increase even if you werent in werewolf form.
Now you dont get that buff while not in werewolf form.
This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.
10/10 guys bravo.
Anyone else have some feeedback on this?

You will still get it if you have the transformation ultimate slotted, maybe you should actually read the patch notes first before commenting.

Asherons_Call

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

You used to get a 10% stam increase even if you werent in werewolf form.
Now you dont get that buff while not in werewolf form.
This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.
10/10 guys bravo.
Anyone else have some feeedback on this?

Hundreds of hours of testing probably found it to be out of balance. Welcome to the ever changing world of MMOs. Here today gone tomorrow

Scyantific

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

This is exactly why it was taken away. People were just using WW for the free stam regen buff.

Also like the poster above me said, please learn to read patch notes. You had a month to read them while we were testing Imperial City (unsuccessfully) on the PTS for you guys.

Kammakazi

They didn't want us to play how we wanted to play, so they removed it.

Telel

Scyantific wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

This is exactly why it was taken away. People were just using WW for the free stam regen buff.

Also like the poster above me said, please learn to read patch notes. You had a month to read them while we were testing Imperial City (unsuccessfully) on the PTS for you guys.

That the werewolf ultimate is almost worth its drawbacks was another reason. But Telel agrees that its abuse by munchkins was one reason why so many of us had asked for this reversion shortly after it was introduced.

Chrlynsch

Telel wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

This is exactly why it was taken away. People were just using WW for the free stam regen buff.

Also like the poster above me said, please learn to read patch notes. You had a month to read them while we were testing Imperial City (unsuccessfully) on the PTS for you guys.

That the werewolf ultimate is almost worth its drawbacks was another reason. But Telel agrees that its abuse by munchkins was one reason why so many of us had asked for this reversion shortly after it was introduced.

Spot on, personally I think the regen should be a buff tied to devour. Thus in order to get it the buff you have to transform and eat. Werewolves won't notice a difference, min maxers will find it an inconvenience and shy away from it.

CP5

Prothwata wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

This is exactly why it was taken away. People were just using WW for the free stam regen buff.

Also like the poster above me said, please learn to read patch notes. You had a month to read them while we were testing Imperial City (unsuccessfully) on the PTS for you guys.

That the werewolf ultimate is almost worth its drawbacks was another reason. But Telel agrees that its abuse by munchkins was one reason why so many of us had asked for this reversion shortly after it was introduced.

Spot on, personally I think the regen should be a buff tied to devour. Thus in order to get it the buff you have to transform and eat. Werewolves won't notice a difference, min maxers will find it an inconvenience and shy away from it.

Was going to leave an agree to this, but left an awesome instead. That in my opinion, would have been the best idea. You need to transform, and you don't need to use both of your ultimates to get the ww buff.

Darlgon

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

Anyone else have some feeedback on this?

Yes, there were probably 40 threads and 80 PAGES of feedback on this on PTS for over a month and a half. (U no forum unless you are posting?) And it still went live. And now, the true Were show their form,, because the transformed were got bufed, while those who abused the system cry..

Lightninvash

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

CP5

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

Darlgon

CP5 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

I am OK with it regaining stam for me on my magicka bar, which is the one I transform from. That way, my stam bar is free to have Standard.

And, when you "actively use the transformation", what? You do know you cant swap bars while transformed?

CP5

Darlgon wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

I am OK with it regaining stam for me on my magicka bar, which is the one I transform from. That way, my stam bar is free to have Standard.

And, when you "actively use the transformation", what? You do know you cant swap bars while transformed?

I mean for people who were ww's for the skill line, not the passive. I tend to use the transformation often-ish and just see the whole "give up both ultimates" part of the passive requirement a bit much. People who never transformed not getting the regen fine, but those who do use the transformation don't really benefit from it without giving up a lot.

BlackEar

Obvious troll. Please lock the thread.

Browiseth

People still have an issue with this? The reasoning behind the change isn't obvious?

Before, there were no drawbacks to being a werewolf. It was a free buff to your character. What's the point in even giving the player the choice of choosing whether or not to be one if being a werewolf presents only positive changes?

DaveMoeDee

Kammakazi wrote: »

They didn't want us to play how we wanted to play, so they removed it.

That comment didn't work. A free buff has nothing to do with playing options.

DaveMoeDee

CP5 wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

I am OK with it regaining stam for me on my magicka bar, which is the one I transform from. That way, my stam bar is free to have Standard.

And, when you "actively use the transformation", what? You do know you cant swap bars while transformed?

I mean for people who were ww's for the skill line, not the passive. I tend to use the transformation often-ish and just see the whole "give up both ultimates" part of the passive requirement a bit much. People who never transformed not getting the regen fine, but those who do use the transformation don't really benefit from it without giving up a lot.

Unfortunately, there is no real way to implement a system to differentiate between such people.

CP5

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

I am OK with it regaining stam for me on my magicka bar, which is the one I transform from. That way, my stam bar is free to have Standard.

And, when you "actively use the transformation", what? You do know you cant swap bars while transformed?

I mean for people who were ww's for the skill line, not the passive. I tend to use the transformation often-ish and just see the whole "give up both ultimates" part of the passive requirement a bit much. People who never transformed not getting the regen fine, but those who do use the transformation don't really benefit from it without giving up a lot.

Unfortunately, there is no real way to implement a system to differentiate between such people.

That's why I like the idea of putting the passive on devour, say for 30min after eating you get the buff. Similar drawback to vamps and it would require not only slotting the skill, but using it.

nimander99

10% bonus? Why did I think it was 15% and only if slotted as ult?

CP5

nimander99 wrote: »

10% bonus? Why did I think it was 15% and only if slotted as ult?

It is 15% regen.

Pallmor

Prothwata wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

This is exactly why it was taken away. People were just using WW for the free stam regen buff.

Also like the poster above me said, please learn to read patch notes. You had a month to read them while we were testing Imperial City (unsuccessfully) on the PTS for you guys.

That the werewolf ultimate is almost worth its drawbacks was another reason. But Telel agrees that its abuse by munchkins was one reason why so many of us had asked for this reversion shortly after it was introduced.

Spot on, personally I think the regen should be a buff tied to devour. Thus in order to get it the buff you have to transform and eat. Werewolves won't notice a difference, min maxers will find it an inconvenience and shy away from it.

If you took away the regen buff even when it's slotted, you would essentially make it worthless as a general-purpose ultimate ability (it's already worthless in PvP). The only thing the Werewolf transformation is good for in-and-of-itself is for grinding areas with a lot of small undead trash mobs. There are far better ultimate abilities out there (that cost far less ultimate) to slot for general use. But you pair it with stamina regen and it becomes worthwhile to slot. Without that, the only time I would ever slot it was if I was grinding the few specific areas where it's useful.

LameoveR

OP is noob and don't even know what he is talking about.
Don't make this thread another "why, ZOS, why?!".

Rikal

The "free" stamina regen buff should never have existed in the 1st place.

This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.

Exactly. Thousands of people became WW just to get the buff. The design intent is people become WW because they want to play WW. It was also pretty lame that stamina builds had to get WW to be "on par".

10/10 guys bravo.

Yup. Except I mean this seriously (not sarcastically). Of all the changes in this release, this is the one they most obviously got right.

Even if the free WW regen was something temporary they intentionally rigged to make stamina builds more viable, now that they have reworked other things it should no longer necessary for that purpose.

nimander99

CP5 wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

10% bonus? Why did I think it was 15% and only if slotted as ult?

It is 15% regen.

I know ty though

Anorak

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

You used to get a 10% stam increase even if you werent in werewolf form.
Now you dont get that buff while not in werewolf form.
This was literally the only reason I got Lycanthropy and now its gone.
10/10 guys bravo.
Anyone else have some feeedback on this?

There is simply no problem with it. The problem was that there was no use in being a 100% human as a WW you got increased regen and no weaknesses. Everyone was WW or vamp no one wanted to be human. That was the real problem.

Carde

The real question is how the hell are you guys even werewolfing this hard I swear to god it crashed my client 7/10 times I transformed or used abilities in wolf form not even a month ago when I was leveling the skill line on my sorc.

DaveMoeDee

CP5 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

it wasn't taken away you need 1 ww skill slotted to gain the buff same for vamp skills

The ultimate, which sadly needs to be on both bars. So if you actively use the transformation you need to limit yourself to one ultimate in order to keep the buff.

I am OK with it regaining stam for me on my magicka bar, which is the one I transform from. That way, my stam bar is free to have Standard.

And, when you "actively use the transformation", what? You do know you cant swap bars while transformed?

I mean for people who were ww's for the skill line, not the passive. I tend to use the transformation often-ish and just see the whole "give up both ultimates" part of the passive requirement a bit much. People who never transformed not getting the regen fine, but those who do use the transformation don't really benefit from it without giving up a lot.

Unfortunately, there is no real way to implement a system to differentiate between such people.

That's why I like the idea of putting the passive on devour, say for 30min after eating you get the buff. Similar drawback to vamps and it would require not only slotting the skill, but using it.

Since all my characters are ww for the old buff, I'd take that free buff. I can just devour and then swap out the ww skills. Even my magicka heavy characters are werewolf because a free buff is a free buff.

But there is a big difference for vamps. Vamps are vulnerable to fire all the time. WWs that don't transform have no vulnerabilities. I don't think there is any reason to compare vamp to ww without comparing each to vanilla players. Neither should be clearly better than being a regular human. Any WW buff not retiring slotting would make them better than being a normal human. The devour mechanism would retain the old problem where it was a poor build choice to remain human. At least the current system has parity between ww and human (though i will keep all my non vamp characters ww since nothing is lost in having an unused skill line.) Devour based no cost buffs would make vanilla characters a poor choice once again.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

10% stam was removed because it hurt WW roleplayers immersion. He wanted you to have to have some downside in order to get the boost.

So now you have to slot the ultimate and join a WW RP group in order to get the bonus.

Darlgon

Pallmor wrote: »

(it's already worthless in PvP).

You either dated yourself, or have never been were.

It is awesome in the sewers, and, since its buff, awesome vs zergs. Sadly, Dawnbreaker still hits like a Mac truck. But, I have transformed more since IC dropped than I did in the year since I was blessed by Hircine.

Ahzek

WW transformation is a beast in any fight where the opponent is either too uncoordinated or too few to focus fire you down quickly. True, it wont help you when you get run over by a 24 player farm train, but i have used it time and time again to take out groups of 2-6 people (that arguably didnt always know what they were doing) and it can be an absolute beast (pun intended) when played correctly.
Never underestimate the power of a second of invulnerability while transforming btw.. That trick can soak meteors like nothing else.

DaveMoeDee

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

10% stam was removed because it hurt WW roleplayers immersion. He wanted you to have to have some downside in order to get the boost.

So now you have to slot the ultimate and join a WW RP group in order to get the bonus.

It has nothing to do with immersion or roleplayers. I thought you might be joking, but it doesn't make much sense as humor.

The problem was that it made no sense to be a non-vamp non-ww. My Breton Magicka Templar is a WW because it meant free stam regen. It would have been stupid build-wise to not become a WW (unless I wanted to be a vamp). That was poor design.

If you are going to give a buff to WW, there also needs to be a cost, like vulnerability to poison 24-7. I don't think anyone wanted that vulnerability. Either that, or make it a vamp/ww themed game where everyone is one of the two.