So wait, all you really did was REDUCE stats to VR14 characters to balance content?

Uberkull

I took screenshots of my entire builds. Looking at the stats on the character sheet and at each of my individual skills, my VR14 Templar has reduced damage output and healing output. Basically less spell damage then before, less spell critical, less spell damage in each skill, less healing in each skill....for the exact same build.

So ZOS basically reduced VR14 damage/healing output instead of leaving VR14 as is and making content(mobs, npc, quests) more powerful? Basically a VR16 in IC is now what a pre-IC VR14 was?

Before IC VR14:
Reflective Light IV - 3197 flame damage / 1568 Magicka cost
Radiant Oppression IV - 11515 magic damage / 2774 Magicka cost
Breath of Life IV - 7385 Health / 2774 Magicka cost
Shooting Star IV - 9046 flame damage / 192 Ultimate

After IC patch VR14:
Reflective Light IV - 2849 flame damage / 1567 Magicka cost
Radiant Oppression IV - 10780 magic damage / 2772 Magicka cost
Breath of Life IV - 6913 health / 2772 Magicka cost
Shooting Star IV - 8064 flame damage / 192 Ultimate

Nebthet78

uberkull wrote: »

I took screenshots of my entire builds. Looking at the stats on the character sheet and at each of my individual skills, my VR14 Templar has reduced damage output and healing output. Basically less spell damage then before, less spell critical, less spell damage in each skill, less healing in each skill....for the exact same build.

So ZOS basically reduced VR14 damage/healing output instead of leaving VR14 as is and making content(mobs, npc, quests) more powerful? Basically a VR16 in IC is now what a pre-IC VR14 was?

Yeah, based on past experience with ZOS when releasing new content, they repeatedly nerf every one's characters to make them gain back what they have lost.

CP system was released: Every one's characters lost about 5% off of all their good skill passives so they had to grind CP to gain those passives back.

IC released: Nerf all stats and hope no one notices.

Sithisvoid

Wow this is just wow

MissBizz

I'd be really interested in seeing those screenshots if you didn't mind sharing. My poor templar.

Not sure if that was their intentions, but it feels like what happened.

HungryHobo

I thought they took the semi-set bonuses and reduced them a little. So the Weap/Spell power 2/3/4 piece bonuses aren't as potent as a full set. They changed some sets bonuses and introduced some sets for variety too.

They also buffed enemy HP pools everywhere, and the V16 guys pack quite a punch compared to V14 mobs.

All of that makes you feel significantly weaker, but does promote more strategy in your fights. Before IC I just pulled everything in all the places and AoE'd it all down before they hurt me very much.. now I have to think some.


Overall, different style gameplay. I enjoy both. Haven't had this in a year+, so I am loving it!

Uberkull

HungryHobo wrote: »

I thought they took the semi-set bonuses and reduced them a little. So the Weap/Spell power 2/3/4 piece bonuses aren't as potent as a full set. They changed some sets bonuses and introduced some sets for variety too.

They also buffed enemy HP pools everywhere, and the V16 guys pack quite a punch compared to V14 mobs.

All of that makes you feel significantly weaker, but does promote more strategy in your fights. Before IC I just pulled everything in all the places and AoE'd it all down before they hurt me very much.. now I have to think some.


Overall, different style gameplay. I enjoy both. Haven't had this in a year+, so I am loving it!

I haven't moved or traveled anywhere to fight anything. I'm just looking at raw stats of my spells and character sheet.

Edit: I see part of the problem. They changed the Somg of Lamae set bonuses entirely.

Two piece bonus was Helath Regeneration
Three piece buns was spell damage

IC it is:
Two piece bonus spell resistance
Three piece bonus physical resistance

All spells through skills, looking at the actual values are lower.

MissBizz

I also inquired on my "feeling" out of magicka etc. on the forums, and it was brought to my attention that some of the behind the scene math changed for how they figure stuff out. Apparently not a change that was in our favor. (an example given was how passives are taken into account)

Yakidafi

What is the problem with this though?

Uberkull

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

Mitchblue

Now I get it. My stats on my NB are definitely less..

Gidorick

I guess this is part of the never ending battle against power creep.

Uberkull

Updated the main post with stats. Just look at Meteor...

Before IC VR14:
Reflective Light IV - 3197 flame damage / 1568 Magicka cost
Radiant Oppression IV - 11515 magic damage / 2774 Magicka cost
Breath of Life IV - 7385 Health / 2774 Magicka cost
Shooting Star IV - 9046 flame damage / 192 Ultimate

After IC patch VR14:
Reflective Light IV - 2849 flame damage / 1567 Magicka cost
Radiant Oppression IV - 10780 magic damage / 2772 Magicka cost
Breath of Life IV - 6913 health / 2772 Magicka cost
Shooting Star IV - 8064 flame damage / 192 Ultimate

Ffastyl

It's a clever way to fight power creep. Never increase the power ceiling, just add more gradient to the slope.

Frawr

yes they nerfed it. look at the spell damage stats on all gear. they lowered them all.

it is poor design from a company that appears scared that people won't buy their product and so they try to force people to do so.

sad.

bad business practice

It is the same with the IC dungeons being in the daily cycle - buy the content or don't do dailies today.

I would have bought it anyway. As it is, this company just gives me a bad taste in my mouth while using their product.

/clap.

Pangnirtung

New content and challenges = update + nerf stats + buff monsters - nerf experience

angelyn

Nooooooooo I've only just caught up from when they did this with champion system

Oh well..*runs out to continue being ESO slowest catcher -upper *
EDIT : were those stats all looked at outside of cyro/IC?

TequilaFire

We get one more night of feeling powerful on PS4! lol

SeptimusDova

If your a templar when you next go to Cyro/IC check your armor stats. Its the same as being naked.

PitchesBeTreble

They have officially broke this game.

Tholian1

Games that don't allow me to feel like my character is making progress with the difficulty don't hold my interest for very long. Character progression should be more than just an increase in level and difficulty. Frustrating game play isn't fun for me. I hope they go back and reconsider these changes from the PvE side of things.

SLy_Kyti

ESO content updates in three easy steps:

1. Remove Horse from in front of wagon. (Patch v1.6, level increase v10 to v12).
2. Remove Wheels from wagon. (Patch v1.7, level increase v12 to v14).
3. Put Horse inside Wagon, make slope slippery. (Patch v2.1 Imperial City, level increase v14 to v16).


Ok everyone! Push!

Rescorla_ESO

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

How is it a nerf if the new design of the stat RPG system affects everyone equally?

Pallmor

TequilaFire wrote: »

We get one more night of feeling powerful on PS4! lol

Enjoy your ability to tank while you can.

Uberkull

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

How is it a nerf if the new design of the stat RPG system affects everyone equally?

Because I built my character to progress. Progrssion fail.

Rescorla_ESO

uberkull wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

How is it a nerf if the new design of the stat RPG system affects everyone equally?

Because I built my character to progress. Progrssion fail.

You can still progress thru all the content just fine. It's just no longer faceroll mind numbingly easy.

What you are failing to account for is that a lot of what you consider a "nerf" was in reality bug fixes. The sharpened mace fix being a good example. Players using that weapon were doing way to much DPS than they should have. Now damage output is closer to where the devs want it to be.

MrGrimey

That's actually a really great way to reduce power creep. Power creep is terrible

Sithisvoid

Last night of fun I'm gonna go rock my ganker Kajiit NB and snipe snipe snipe the night away

HungryHobo

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

Game balance doesn't have to do with the DLC. Overall, it feels more challenging. They are swinging the pendulum called iteration. This version feels more balanced than last to me at least.

If they buff you 2x but buff mobs 4x, or just buff mobs 2x, or simply multiply you by 0.5x, it doesn't matter. The same outcome is produced, a net "Nerf". The "I got weaker" should happen if the game is actually trying to balance gameplay effectively. It is nonsensical in my mind to find all the potential problem variables for each patch, keep them the same, and buff everything else by 20% to accomplish the same net balancing effect. After 10 patches your character will be 200% more powerful on average than that first patch, but the net effect will be the same as what they are doing now.

People just don't like to see their numbers go down I guess? Is that it? If they kept pumping everything up, in a year your attacks will be doing 30K+ and your health pool will be around 80K. Mobs will have 250K HP and do 5-10K per hit. What's the effective difference? Numbers. The time to kill stays the same. Everything does in fact. You just have an inflation of numbers.

Merlin13KAGL

Ffastyl wrote: »

It's a clever way to fight power creep. Never increase the power ceiling, just add more gradient to the slope.

If by "clever" you mean "asinine," then yes.

• Here's new, harder content.
• It's also harder to do the content you could do yesterday, without issue.
• Rewards from doing the content you had no issue with yesterday have been replaced by lesser versions, as well.

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

ESO content updates in three easy steps:

1. Remove Horse from in front of wagon. (Patch v1.6, level increase v10 to v12).
2. Remove Wheels from wagon. (Patch v1.7, level increase v12 to v14).
3. Put Horse inside Wagon, make slope slippery. (Patch v2.1 Imperial City, level increase v14 to v16).


Ok everyone! Push!

@SLy_Kyti you forgot three parts:

• Add pointed spike wall at the base of the slope.
• Have current employees stand between base and wagon with hands outstretched (as a show of support, of course).
• Tell staff to standby and keep telling themselves "This won't end badly. Working as intended."

Uberkull

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

How is it a nerf if the new design of the stat RPG system affects everyone equally?

Because I built my character to progress. Progrssion fail.

You can still progress thru all the content just fine. It's just no longer faceroll mind numbingly easy.

What you are failing to account for is that a lot of what you consider a "nerf" was in reality bug fixes. The sharpened mace fix being a good example. Players using that weapon were doing way to much DPS than they should have. Now damage output is closer to where the devs want it to be.

This is completely wrong. EVERY spell is lowered. Every single one. That's not a bug fix, it's a global reduction of spell damage or healing power. I've reviewed every Templar ability and other off skill stats, before and after. They are all lowered.

HungryHobo

uberkull wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

What is the problem with this though?

It's lazy. Instead of scaling mobs and content, they just nerfed our characters. Why should I be weaker in none IC content? What if I don't buy IC? Why should my VR14 character be weaker now and yet the content in non IC areas be the same?

How is it a nerf if the new design of the stat RPG system affects everyone equally?

Because I built my character to progress. Progrssion fail.

You can still progress thru all the content just fine. It's just no longer faceroll mind numbingly easy.

What you are failing to account for is that a lot of what you consider a "nerf" was in reality bug fixes. The sharpened mace fix being a good example. Players using that weapon were doing way to much DPS than they should have. Now damage output is closer to where the devs want it to be.

This is completely wrong. EVERY spell is lowered. Every single one. That's not a bug fix, it's a global reduction of spell damage or healing power. I've reviewed every Templar ability and other off skill stats, before and after. They are all lowered.

By what percentage? Is everyone affected the same way? I don't get your problem. Is it that your build got hit harder with nerfs than any other? Or did everyone get affected relatively equally, and you don't like to see your numbers become smaller?