It seems that the internal cooldown is 6 seconds (the duration of the proc). So I could get it to proc almost immediately after the duration of the proc expires but I was unable to refresh the proc while it was up.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Also @Asayre in your testing of scathing mage did you find the internal cooldown to be 5 seconds or more?
Very helpful thanks!It seems that the internal cooldown is 6 seconds (the duration of the proc). So I could get it to proc almost immediately after the duration of the proc expires but I was unable to refresh the proc while it was up.
I already worked out how to determine when to use Nirnhoned or Precise but I was taking a break from the first question.
To start off, I’ll begin again with the base damage formula
Base damage = Tooltip * Atk_Cp * Def_Cp * (1 - Mit)
where
Mit = Defender_Resist * (1-Penetration)/ 66000 - Attacker_Focus/66000 - 0.12*Spell Erosion
Mitigation can be rewritten to separate it into a base and penetration component
Mit = Defender_Resist/66000 – Attacker_Focus/66000 – 0.12*Spell Erosion – Defender_Resist*Penetration/66000
Mit = Mit_B – Mit_P
Where Mit_B is the first 3 terms and Mit_P is the last term.
The damage with Nirnhoned is then
Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B + Mit_P)*( 1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)
Thus the damage increase from using Nirnhoned is
Damage_Nirn = Tooltip*Mit_P*(1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)
In comparison, the damage with Precise is
Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*( 1-(Crit chance +Precise)+ (Crit Chance+Precise) * Crit multiplier)
The damage increase using Precise is
Damage_Precise = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*Precise*(Crit multiplier – 1)
To decide which to use, we need to consider Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise
Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise = Tooltip* (Mit_P * (1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier) – Precise*(1-Mit_B)*(Crit multiplier – 1)
As you can see, the tooltip value is not important in the evaluation process. Now there are four variables, namely, crit chance, crit multiplier and Mit_P and Mit_B. To simplify it a bit I’ll assume that the attacker has no penetration from any other sources (i.e. Attacker_Focus is 0 and has no champion points in Elfborn. Thus Mit_P and Mit_B can be computer from simply knowing Defender_Resist. Unfortunately this still leaves us with 3 variable which makes creating a graph rather difficult. I’ll provide some slices of Crit chance vs Crit multipler for different armour values.
Below ~10000 resistance, precise is always better and above ~14000 resistance nirnhoned is always superior. Also having a high crit chance favours nirnhoned while having a high crit damage modifier favours precise. Recall that I have for simplication ignored penetration for Attacker Focus, Spell Erosion and Major Breach. Take that into account when fighting in Tamriel.
I have little understanding of the armour of bosses and it is one of my plans one day to get a group to help me shoot bosses in order to determine their resistance.
And that is the end of your second question.
I already worked out how to determine when to use Nirnhoned or Precise but I was taking a break from the first question.
To start off, I’ll begin again with the base damage formula
Base damage = Tooltip * Atk_Cp * Def_Cp * (1 - Mit)
where
Mit = Defender_Resist * (1-Penetration)/ 66000 - Attacker_Focus/66000 - 0.12*Spell Erosion
Mitigation can be rewritten to separate it into a base and penetration component
Mit = Defender_Resist/66000 – Attacker_Focus/66000 – 0.12*Spell Erosion – Defender_Resist*Penetration/66000
Mit = Mit_B – Mit_P
Where Mit_B is the first 3 terms and Mit_P is the last term.
The damage with Nirnhoned is then
Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B + Mit_P)*( 1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)
Thus the damage increase from using Nirnhoned is
Damage_Nirn = Tooltip*Mit_P*(1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier)
In comparison, the damage with Precise is
Damage = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*( 1-(Crit chance +Precise)+ (Crit Chance+Precise) * Crit multiplier)
The damage increase using Precise is
Damage_Precise = Tooltip*(1-Mit_B)*Precise*(Crit multiplier – 1)
To decide which to use, we need to consider Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise
Damage_Nirn – Damage_Precise = Tooltip* (Mit_P * (1-Crit chance + Crit Chance * Crit multiplier) – Precise*(1-Mit_B)*(Crit multiplier – 1)
As you can see, the tooltip value is not important in the evaluation process. Now there are four variables, namely, crit chance, crit multiplier and Mit_P and Mit_B. To simplify it a bit I’ll assume that the attacker has no penetration from any other sources (i.e. Attacker_Focus is 0 and has no champion points in Elfborn. Thus Mit_P and Mit_B can be computer from simply knowing Defender_Resist. Unfortunately this still leaves us with 3 variable which makes creating a graph rather difficult. I’ll provide some slices of Crit chance vs Crit multipler for different armour values. In the following set of graphs, blue means Precise is better and red means nirnhoned is better.
Below ~10000 resistance, precise is always better and above ~14000 resistance nirnhoned is always superior. Also having a high crit chance favours nirnhoned while having a high crit damage modifier favours precise. Recall that I have for simplication ignored penetration for Attacker Focus, Spell Erosion and Major Breach. Take that into account when fighting in Tamriel.
I have little understanding of the armour of bosses and it is one of my plans one day to get a group to help me shoot bosses in order to determine their resistance.
And that is the end of your second question.
Personofsecrets wrote: »@Asayre ,
Are you aware of DOTs (such as eruption) not being increased in damage by nirnhoned? That was an issue for me last patch and I wonder if it still persists.
I wasn't aware of such a problem. I tested it against the Mammoths in The Rift and I didn't find any problems. I was using Puncturing Sweep and the damage is within my expectation.
@kaithuzar, I believe @Soulac has done that for you . You can find his stat calc at forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169938/stat-calculator-version-1-6-4
Let me start by saying that I am quite impressed by your work, and then continue by asking:Below ~10000 resistance, precise is always better and above ~14000 resistance nirnhoned is always superior. Also having a high crit chance favours nirnhoned while having a high crit damage modifier favours precise. Recall that I have for simplication ignored penetration for Attacker Focus, Spell Erosion and Major Breach. Take that into account when fighting in Tamriel.
...
Anyway assuming that you get in on this 'jump' points then the extra damage from Elfborn is
Damage_Elfborn = 0.01*Crit Chance*Tooltip
To help you put this into perspective, let's take a crit chance of 42% and a crit multiplier of 1.5. The increase in damage from Spell Erosion by increasing it by 1% is
Damage_Spell Erosion = Tooltip*0.12*0.01*(1-0.42+0.42*1.5) = Tooltip * 0.001452
Compared to a 'jump' point in Elfborn
Damage_Elfborn = Tooltip*0.42*0.01 = Tooltip * 0.0042
So a 'jump' point in Elfborn is better than Spell Erosion. A 'jump' point in Elfborn is equivalent to a 3% increase in Spell Erosion. Thus put points into Spell Erosion if the number of points required to reach a jump will result in at least a 3% increase in Spell Erosion. Let me give you a concrete example.
Let us say you have 78 points in Elfborn and 0 in Spell Erosion. The next 'jump' is at 89 points in Elfborn that requires another 11 points. But 11 points in Spell Erosion would net you 5.3% since 5.3% is > 3% put those 11 points into Spell Erosion.
There is a bit of interplay here since with 78 points in Elfborn your crit multipler would be higher than 1.5 thus the effectiveness of Spell Erosion is increased. But I was simplfying things a bit.
To help with future decisions on this subject, I'll provide all the 'jump' points. They are:
1, 5, 11, 17, 24, 31, 40, 49, 58, 68, 78 and 89
There are no 'jump' points after 89.
And that is the end of your first question
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
Uncle_Voodoo wrote: »
About all I can say about this is... you are not a very good carpenter! All of your steps are crooked!
Rune_Relic wrote: »So that 5280 major ward buff is exactly 8% mitigation then.
Thanks for the confirmation.
I have seen 32500 @ 50% or similar mitigation and left me scratching my head.
do you have aswell the jumppoints in spellerosion providing 3% increasement? as its hard to plan your distribution with out it
using your example going from 78 to 89 but with spell erosion allready within the 40s the 11CP to be spend do not provide 3% more spellerosion, increasing the worthyness of elfborn again...
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"