Templars and Sorcerers

Azalin76

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Fizzlewizzle

If you actually got some utility from those skills i wouldn't mind the Templar skills at all.
Solar Flare gets a 20% damage increase for the next attack (as quite a long casting time, and lower damage as you mentioned already), and you can't sneak attack with it.
(I know that for sure, i have been sneaking a lot with that skill, even firing it direct up someone's ass from sneak, but it plainly refuses to give you the sneak attack bonus).

Blazing spear only stuns 1 person (and gives them CC immunity afterwards). Not really that nice if it doesn't hit that hard to begin with (Rather keep more people locked because of the lower damage).

Sun shield... you already said it.

Lot more skills have those problems, or in general Templar have problems altogether.
People just seem to think that because they can heal and have RD that they are fine (They are not).

Something i was really surprised about with the IC update was the constant complain about Templars have Resource problems (not even starting about damage and other stuff), and NB's get a new and improved Refreshing shadows:

Refreshing Shadows (passive): Adjusted this ability from 15/30% Stamina recovery to 7/15% Stamina, Health and Magicka recovery. We also fixed an issue which caused this passive to not increase health regeneration.

I really was like... wtf.

MrGrimey

Sun shield should go off magicka, spear needs a DoT after the initial burst

mrskinskull

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

The similarities do seem to encourage multiple build styles for each class.

That PvP templar spear haunts my dreams.

P3ZZL3

I'm working on a Templorc at the moment - purely for IC. Looking quite promising from a sustain and damage perspective.

Just a shame none of the new sets come even close to matching MK.

Now, if MK Scaled....

warpower9

I have been a Templar since the start and I have two main issues, and a couple side issues with the class. 1st off Templars get nothing in the way of critical chance or spell damage compared to the other classes. Also the get nothing that grants the speed buff, major expedition I believe it is called. With that I am going to stop before I go full rant in here. Yes I played all 4 classes to vet6 or higher currently rocking sorc vr6 dk vr11 temp vr16 and a deleted NB vr7. Of all classes dk and Templar got no speed buff, Templar has no crit buff that's any good and the base damage is low. fix this and I guess I will not be able to complain anymore. And btw Templar heals never impressed me , why? for one the cost of the skills is so high first thing I did was grab a resto staff for healing springs and mana return. I would like to see the Templar restoration skill line reworked to include some utility/cc skills and less heals or heals that cost less so temps don't need a resto staff at all to fully solo heal a group event. Take as you want but troll me not, Good day and happy hunting.

Fizzlewizzle

It is indeed frustrating that you need a Restoration staff to be viable as a group healer on a Templar.
You would expect them, with a whole restoration tree, to be viable as healers even without a Restoration staff.
The only heal i found useful was Healing Ritual, but with the IC update they even sneak nerfed that (no patch notes about it).
Its a bloody healing skill with insane cast time. Why nerf it?

I wish Templars had a self buff which promoted normal melee attacks, rather than Sweep or jabs spam.
When you say Templar i would always think about a healing warrior, not some sort of wimp.

First skill in my own created "rework topic":
"Enhance your weapon with holy light, Increasing damage of Light and heavy attacks by 50/100/150/200%.
This buff does NOT affect attacks from sneak.
Expert Hunter-ish skill."
Would be a replacement for Puncturing Strikes, with even more power to melee within its morphs (though focused on either long ranged or close ranged combat).
If they add such a buff to the current game i would be so happy, wouldn't even mind if they disabled skills for the duration of the skill (should be a toggle then).

Leandor

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I'm working on a Templorc at the moment - purely for IC. Looking quite promising from a sustain and damage perspective.

Just a shame none of the new sets come even close to matching MK.

Now, if MK Scaled....

Did you use 5-piece MK? Because the first three set bonuses are identical to Overwhelming Surge.

P3ZZL3

Leandor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I'm working on a Templorc at the moment - purely for IC. Looking quite promising from a sustain and damage perspective.

Just a shame none of the new sets come even close to matching MK.

Now, if MK Scaled....

Did you use 5-piece MK? Because the first three set bonuses are identical to Overwhelming Surge.

Nope, only 4. And I know Overwhelming is the same, I just don't plan on spending 12 months grinding the same dungeon to get the gear - and for the additional it gives you, it's forgiveable really.

Derra

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

I´d give my left arm and leg to get something similar to spearshards as a sorc.

Also you don´t mention the awesome healing tree the templar gets access to with three of the best/strongest abilities in the entire game.

NewBlacksmurf

I made both and yes there are definitely some similarities but overall they differ depending on intended usage.

Templar - healer, tank and decent DPS
Sorc - DPS, healer and possible tank

In that order for each

leepalmer95

Sorc have no class heals ^^, there only defence is hardened ward hence why it scales of magicka and not hp.

Frags isn't the same as flare.

Frags is only useful if it procs, were as flare is one of these spam skills as it buff's itself and have more utility than frags because it's has major defile ^^ . Also flare actually does more dmg if you look on a website like eso head.

Sorc rely on burst dmg while templars do more sustained dmg.

P3ZZL3

Slightly outside of this thread, but in general, whats a good, survivable build for stand alone.

i.e. Those chaps who walk around the sewers on 2m health. What could take down one of those by themselves?

warpower9

Oh Yeah! let me heal you to death since temp heals cost so much to use. Wait I'm out of manna NVM you win! Btw temps only "execute" was nerfed by 20% and to be clear healing springs is the only heal you need to keep an entire raid up so why even use temp class heals ...oh i don't nvm.

Fizzlewizzle

warpower9 wrote: »

Oh Yeah! let me heal you to death since temp heals cost so much to use. Wait I'm out of manna NVM you win! Btw temps only "execute" was nerfed by 20% and to be clear healing springs is the only heal you need to keep an entire raid up so why even use temp class heals ...oh i don't nvm.

Stop about RD.
Its a stink skill to begin with. People having trouble leaving their Childhood and DBZ behind love it, but everyone with half a brain hates it. I think most Templars would prefer something more direct rather than RD. Some even act like its a DPS skill rather than an execute.
RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD>RD '

Agree with the healing part though.
Templar's Restoring Light tree is basically useless. Grab a Restoration staff instead and people will actually accept you as an healer. Use Templar skills and prepare to play alone.

leepalmer95

warpower9 wrote: »

Oh Yeah! let me heal you to death since temp heals cost so much to use. Wait I'm out of manna NVM you win! Btw temps only "execute" was nerfed by 20% and to be clear healing springs is the only heal you need to keep an entire raid up so why even use temp class heals ...oh i don't nvm.

Radiant needed a nerf it was doing stupid dmg outside of execute range for a execute, also couldn't be blocked or dodged.

If you run out of mana get more sustain, easy enough.

Leandor

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Slightly outside of this thread, but in general, whats a good, survivable build for stand alone.

i.e. Those chaps who walk around the sewers on 2m health. What could take down one of those by themselves?

Would have to be ranged and mobile, imho. The void zones just hit too hard to survive solo against them. My bet would be if anyone can, a sorc could, but only if he has cleared at least two of the big rooms to have space for maneuvering.

I managed to take down maybe 75% of the frost atronach roamer in one of the districts (the rest was done by maybe 3 randoms that hit him a couple times but mainly just died repeatedly). I managed only because of streak, shields, blue magicka/stam food to have enough resources, about 10 tripots and no interference by enemy players. And that is easily the easiest roamer there is due to his very slow AoE attacks that are very easy to avoid.

I don't think that many players will be able to pull off a solo kill of the banner mobs in sewers, since they are generally much more aggressive and fast. I do consider that working as intended.

As to the Overwhelming Surge issue: For sure you put the finger on the itch, there, but maybe we will see some updates that makes it easier to get a hold of those. As to the advantage of V16 gear: The enchantments make a world of a difference between V14 and V16. I think the difference may even amount to a booming 5-7% resources in total (enchants + item bonuses), not counting the application of prismatic enchants.

eventide03b14a_ESO

@Azalin76 So you have the best heals in the game and you're complaining that another class that has no heals at all does more damage than you. Please go away.

Fizzlewizzle

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

@Azalin76 So you have the best heals in the game and you're complaining that another class that has no heals at all does more damage than you. Please go away.

Could be the same other way around.
Templar class (And Restoration staff) get enough nerfs to all synergies (as well as individual skills) because all those damage classes complained that they couldn't be on par with a Templar healer with just a restoration staff.
"They don't let me join as a healer because i'm not a Templar"

Even in the IC update they got a nerf to healing, to Healing Ritual (50% less healing).
Healing Ritual for godsake, If there is one skill people will kick you for as a healer its healing Ritual... and still it got a nerf!

templesus

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Dark Flare does more damage then crystal frags depending,on your build, my gear if focused on spell damage and magicka, and does more damage then a procd frag

Digiman

Sorcerer's have to rely on burst damage set up and they don't have self heals. To really add insult to injury they are forced to use Shield Stacking because Light Armor is as weak as wet tissue paper.

We get punished by having a set designed to IRRESISTIBLE DAMAGE WITH LIGHT ATTACKS when we have our Shields up JUST TO SURVIVE.

Finally, Templar just has far more versatility for groups then sorcerers. Temps don't need Shields to survive.

AfkNinja

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

@Azalin76 So you have the best heals in the game and you're complaining that another class that has no heals at all does more damage than you. Please go away.

You are incorrect. Sorc does have a heal, it's tied to clanfear. You just won't use it cause it requires you to stack HP to be effective. The same reason our Blazing Shield is useless, it requires us to stack HP.

However, your Hardened ward is the best shield in the game, lasts a long time and only requires you to stack Mana which also raises your dmg.

Templars are forced to split their stats which lowers our dmg, and now ZOS is nerfing our heals too. We also lack passive resource regen, our only regen is tied to Channeled Focus. What do we get in return? We've hed multiple updates in a row where all we get are nerfs? I'm starting to feel like ZOS's stepchild here, we get beaten down in every update and everyone tells us it's fine.

I'm not advocating for a Sorc nerf, I don't want any more nerfs but why can Sorc stack 1 resources and do more dmg than us AND have better shields? Plus you can stack Hardened ward with Healing Ward and still get an awesome heal, all without diversifying your stats at all? Why is Templar penalized so much for having a healing tree?

OGLezard

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I'm working on a Templorc at the moment - purely for IC. Looking quite promising from a sustain and damage perspective.

Just a shame none of the new sets come even close to matching MK.

Now, if MK Scaled....

@P3ZZL3 http://esoacademy.com/imperial-city-item-sets/

Overwhelming surge would like to say hello....the 2,3, and 4 pieces match MK but not the 5 piece. The 5 piece to MK was meh anyways as the 10% extra damage is from ANY source that hits them not just yours.

rokrdt05

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Solar Flare morphed to Dark Flare does more damage than Cyrstal Frags. Dark Flare empowers itself on each cast and with a max spell damage build can hit over 25k easily, whereas Frags in that same boat barely hit up to 20k even with the free proc and it's empowered self.

Blazing Spear does more dps per cast than Lightning flood, especially with the chance of Blazing Spear and it's dot to proc burning light (which is another 4k+ dmg).

You are correct that Conjured Ward shield is larger and will absorb more damage.

Please actually do some testing between classes before spouting nonsense and giving wrong information.

Edit: I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective. PvP the same will still hold true with the values in dmg dropped. However with the Dark Flare the cast time is slow and the projectile slow, and spear is still a really good aoe compared to Lightning Flood. Sun Shield just sucks in PvP

OGLezard

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Solar Flare morphed to Dark Flare does more damage than Cyrstal Frags. Dark Flare empowers itself on each cast and with a max spell damage build can hit over 25k easily, whereas Frags in that same boat barely hit up to 20k even with the free proc and it's empowered self.

Blazing Spear does more dps per cast than Lightning flood, especially with the chance of Blazing Spear and it's dot to proc burning light (which is another 4k+ dmg).

You are correct that Conjured Ward shield is larger and will absorb more damage.

Please actually do some testing between classes before spouting nonsense and giving wrong information.

Edit: I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective. PvP the same will still hold true with the values in dmg dropped. However with the Dark Flare the cast time is slow and the projectile slow, and spear is still a really good aoe compared to Lightning Flood. Sun Shield just sucks in PvP

@rokrdt05 wow....... nerf sorcs......

Anhedonie

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Tssss. ZO$ doesn't know there are templars in their game. Yet.

rokrdt05

OGLezard wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Solar Flare morphed to Dark Flare does more damage than Cyrstal Frags. Dark Flare empowers itself on each cast and with a max spell damage build can hit over 25k easily, whereas Frags in that same boat barely hit up to 20k even with the free proc and it's empowered self.

Blazing Spear does more dps per cast than Lightning flood, especially with the chance of Blazing Spear and it's dot to proc burning light (which is another 4k+ dmg).

You are correct that Conjured Ward shield is larger and will absorb more damage.

Please actually do some testing between classes before spouting nonsense and giving wrong information.

Edit: I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective. PvP the same will still hold true with the values in dmg dropped. However with the Dark Flare the cast time is slow and the projectile slow, and spear is still a really good aoe compared to Lightning Flood. Sun Shield just sucks in PvP

@rokrdt05 wow....... nerf sorcs......

Don't get me wrong, sorcs by far have more burst in small amount of time compared to Templars in PvP... as well as more mobility... even with the nerf sorcs are still doing really well. Many people have switched to Templars or have started using their Templars in IC because of their functionality, but have very little experience pvping with them and go down easily still thinking other classes are OP when in fact Templars are one of the stronger classes now.

Dyride

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I'm working on a Templorc at the moment - purely for IC. Looking quite promising from a sustain and damage perspective.

The correct term is Orcplar.

The Aedric Spear passives are really good for the style of Templar that I play, especially the 10% Crit damage bonus.

Purifying Ritual is an amazing utility skill. Purifying Ritual should be part of your rotation if stamina or magicka. Did you all know you can purify projectiles off of you?

Also anyone that complains of magicka issues should be using Channeled Focus especially since mitigation is so strong right now.

Ebonheart Templar's Stamina Templar

Blabafat's Outnumbered Templar

Fizzlewizzle

Digiman wrote: »

Sorcerer's have to rely on burst damage set up and they don't have self heals. To really add insult to injury they are forced to use Shield Stacking because Light Armor is as weak as wet tissue paper.

We get punished by having a set designed to IRRESISTIBLE DAMAGE WITH LIGHT ATTACKS when we have our Shields up JUST TO SURVIVE.

Finally, Templar just has far more versatility for groups then sorcerers. Temps don't need Shields to survive.

Correct me if wrong but... wouldn't a Sorc with a crit based build be on par with a Templar when it comes to survival?
Surge is from certain points of view much better then what Templars have, as it works together with all types of offense, rather than having 1 DPS skill which heals you, or no DPS at all and just a plain heal?

Templars need high damage to get the most healing out of their DPS, while Sorcs just need to have enough crit.
Maybe its because everyone is so focused on damage (mainly sorcs for this matter) that they forget their survival?
I've seen vids of Sorcs fighting in PvP without needing Bolt or Shields, yet still manage 1vX fights.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Solar Flare morphed to Dark Flare does more damage than Cyrstal Frags. Dark Flare empowers itself on each cast and with a max spell damage build can hit over 25k easily, whereas Frags in that same boat barely hit up to 20k even with the free proc and it's empowered self.

Blazing Spear does more dps per cast than Lightning flood, especially with the chance of Blazing Spear and it's dot to proc burning light (which is another 4k+ dmg).

You are correct that Conjured Ward shield is larger and will absorb more damage.

Please actually do some testing between classes before spouting nonsense and giving wrong information.

Edit: I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective. PvP the same will still hold true with the values in dmg dropped. However with the Dark Flare the cast time is slow and the projectile slow, and spear is still a really good aoe compared to Lightning Flood. Sun Shield just sucks in PvP

A purely damage focused Sorc wins it from a purely damage focused Templar.
Damage isn't everything in this race... the secondary effects is what counts.

If both start casting at the same time a sorc will win.
Frags is 0.1 second faster when it comes to casting time, has a much faster flight time and can knock down the opponent.
Even without the knockdown effect a Sorc will most likely have fired (if not hit) his second Frag when the first Flare hits him.

There isn't much need for testing, and not much to test either way.
Put them against each other and the winner will be the Sorc. The secondary effects of the Sorc skills are way more powerful than anything a Templar can produce. And, you have little use for damage and/or healing if you can't use them.

BugCollector

Yea, Templar skills are still lackluster.

rokrdt05

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Sorcerer's have to rely on burst damage set up and they don't have self heals. To really add insult to injury they are forced to use Shield Stacking because Light Armor is as weak as wet tissue paper.

We get punished by having a set designed to IRRESISTIBLE DAMAGE WITH LIGHT ATTACKS when we have our Shields up JUST TO SURVIVE.

Finally, Templar just has far more versatility for groups then sorcerers. Temps don't need Shields to survive.

Correct me if wrong but... wouldn't a Sorc with a crit based build be on par with a Templar when it comes to survival?
Surge is from certain points of view much better then what Templars have, as it works together with all types of offense, rather than having 1 DPS skill which heals you, or no DPS at all and just a plain heal?

Templars need high damage to get the most healing out of their DPS, while Sorcs just need to have enough crit.
Maybe its because everyone is so focused on damage (mainly sorcs for this matter) that they forget their survival?
I've seen vids of Sorcs fighting in PvP without needing Bolt or Shields, yet still manage 1vX fights.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

I was looking around today at class abilities and have noticed that templars and sorcs have a lot of similar abilities. The main difference is that sorcs were designed for damage and templars for utility. I wish they had some morphs for templars that would trade the utility for more damage.

Examples:

Solar Flare vs. Crystal Shard - Both very similar spells but solar flare does much less damage.

Blazing Spear vs. Lightning Flood - Both similar spells but lightning flood does much more damage. (This can even be compared to the DK's Eruption, which still does less damage than lightning flood)

Sun Shield vs. Conjured Ward - Again both similar spells but Conjured Ward absorbs much more damage. (Yes you can put all of your points in health and enchant for health to give Sun Shield more absorb power but then you sacrifice all of your other abilities for this)

I am not trying to say that each class should be the same, I would just like to see similar spells have an option/morph to do equal amounts of damage. Sure the Templar spells are great for utility and support but if you are leveling and playing solo often then all of that utility and support is just useless.

Solar Flare morphed to Dark Flare does more damage than Cyrstal Frags. Dark Flare empowers itself on each cast and with a max spell damage build can hit over 25k easily, whereas Frags in that same boat barely hit up to 20k even with the free proc and it's empowered self.

Blazing Spear does more dps per cast than Lightning flood, especially with the chance of Blazing Spear and it's dot to proc burning light (which is another 4k+ dmg).

You are correct that Conjured Ward shield is larger and will absorb more damage.

Please actually do some testing between classes before spouting nonsense and giving wrong information.

Edit: I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective. PvP the same will still hold true with the values in dmg dropped. However with the Dark Flare the cast time is slow and the projectile slow, and spear is still a really good aoe compared to Lightning Flood. Sun Shield just sucks in PvP

A purely damage focused Sorc wins it from a purely damage focused Templar.
Damage isn't everything in this race... the secondary effects is what counts.

If both start casting at the same time a sorc will win.
Frags is 0.1 second faster when it comes to casting time, has a much faster flight time and can knock down the opponent.
Even without the knockdown effect a Sorc will most likely have fired (if not hit) his second Frag when the first Flare hits him.

There isn't much need for testing, and not much to test either way.
Put them against each other and the winner will be the Sorc. The secondary effects of the Sorc skills are way more powerful than anything a Templar can produce. And, you have little use for damage and/or healing if you can't use them.

You are mistaken if you think a Templar would lose dps wise to a sorc. Yes a sorc has more up front burst dmg, but Templars win out with sustain. In PvE Templar will win in dps everytime against a sorc who isn't just OL light attacking the entire time.

If a sorc and Templar are hard casting Dark Flare/Frags at each other, the Templar will win plain and simple. Doesn't matter that frags is 0.1 faster or has a knock down. Dark Flare will still go off before the frag will hit, cc break, and you can cast 2-3 more DF before another CC while doing more dmg than frags will do. I have a sorc and a Templar... have tested extensively with different builds and multiple opponents in PvP. Dark Flare will out scale frags everytime. Now granted no sorc or Templar runs around just hard casting either ability and there are other abilities to account for when fighting i.e. eclipse, crushing shock, etc.

Just because you've seen 1vX sorcs doesn't mean they are the meta for dps. This whole crit based nonsense applies to any class.