Tel var stones and zergs in IC

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Hello
I played a few hours with some friends in the Ic and farmed a good amount of stones. but after some time there were zergs everywhere. You do a boss? bam 20 ppl all stomes lost. you do a quest? bam 20 ppl all stones lost. you rust run around killing deadra? bam 20 ppl all stones lost...
seriously this ruines the whole concept of IC. I really liked it in the first place where just solo players and groups of 4 were running around. There was a chance to avoid them but how do you avoid 20 ppl who just jump in your back?

Thats why I got the idea that you should loose less stones the more ppl are resposible for your death. Like 1 kills you you loose 80% for 2 pll its 70 and so on so the zerging is not worth it anymore and they are forced to go and make groups of 4 people. This would make it a lot more enjoyable in my opinion

Ace_of_Destiny

"Awesome"ed!

Down with the Zerg!

Troneon

Yep zergs ruin IC basically, this was said on PTS but I guess ZOS could not think of a way to counter large groups just zerging.

AOE Zergs are not even skillful, just running around spamming aoe skills until everything is dead....

Don't even have to think, just stay with group and spam those AOE skills.

Welcome to IC.

WebBull

It's day one. No one knows what they are doing are where they are going so they all join large groups. Give it sometime and zergs will probably die down some.

Iggybot

Honestly give it some time, I joined a zergs for a bit and did not gain much from it. It's really not that profitable for AP or TV stones and once people figure that out it will die down hopefully.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Hey PTS players warned ZOS that IC wasn't small scaled PvP as they wanted to be but small scaled ZvZ. So yes loosing 80% of your stones seems kinda much since it's zergs doing it instead of 1 or 2 players.

But again most of this can be avoided if ZOS just adds a PvP arena already.

Reverb

WebBull wrote: »

Give it sometime and zergs will probably die down some.

I don't put much faith in this, for a few reasons.

In Cyrodiil, zerging has become more prevalent, not less. Small group pv with skilled (or even semi skilled) players is actually really hard to find. And when you do, it's only a matter of minutes before a pain train comes rushing because they see swords on the map. I don't think this mindset will be reduced for Imperial City.

Secondly, there are a lot of people who don't like pvp and feel forced to participate in it for the new content and materials. These people are not interested in becoming skilled pvp'ers , and feel more comfortable in a "safety in numbers" situation. There are a lot of them, and most will be around until Orsinium drops.

Tl;dr - the Zerg is real, and it's here to stay.

P3ZZL3

I believe in the update/twitch they did cover this and said that they felt it would be fine at 80% loss, as the stones split 10-15 ways would be pointless (or at least, less worth while).

I think they underestimated, yet again, the types of characters they have in their player base, especially in PVP..lol

Funkopotamus

Just think of IC. as planet Klendathu !
"Would you like to know more?"
Don't get caught out gunned

DaveMoeDee

I didn't realize a group of 20 people qualifies as zerg. Seems like a normal sized group of guild members doing PvP.

Sithisvoid

We told you guys what it would be like. You fought to keep the system the way it is suck it up

Troneon

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I didn't realize a group of 20 people qualifies as zerg. Seems like a normal sized group of guild members doing PvP.

Anything more than 20 in cyrodill is pretty much a zerg...

Anything more than 5-10 people in IC is pretty much a zerg...just because IC is a lot smaller and more cramped.

Soarin'

There definitely needs to be a defensive mechanics against mindless zerg PVP. Losses incurred by a player should scale inversely to the number of active aggressors in the area. For instance:

Killed by 1-2 players: 80% asset loss
Killed by 3-4 players: 50% asset loss
Killed by 6-8 players: 30% asset loss
Killed by 9+ players: 15% asset loss

Currently the game does not do enough to place incentives on small scale skirmish PVP. Give the rewards to those who take the greatest risks and give nothing to those who do not reinforce your desired game play.

rophez_ESO

When the newbie devs left at ZOS made the decision not to gate IC, I new it was time to end the sub. They really don't know how things work. IC zergfest and Cyrodiil ghost town are the results of really bad implementation.

Armitas

People are zerging because of stealth ganking. I don't think it's any dumber than getting 10k TVS and engaging a boss and then getting stealth ganked.

Rikal

...the Zerg is real, and it's here to stay.

Yup

I think they underestimated, yet again, the types of characters they have in their player base, especially in PVP

And yup

bowmanz607

People will slow down in zerg in once they realize you don't get enough stones from zerging. You also have to remember that population in ic will be at max for a couple weeks on most servers because it is new.

Troneon

Armitas wrote: »

People are zerging because of stealth ganking. I don't think it's any dumber than getting 10k TVS and engaging a boss and then getting stealth ganked.

@Armitas
That's true, this is what happens when you put PVE inside PVP and then make NB's the strongest pvp class in the game...

Everyone tanks up and goes full zerg.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I could not agree more!!! I must start by saying that I had so much more fun in IC than I thought I would. I am definitely more of a PvE player, but I think this is a really good balance of PvP and PvE. The problem is the Zergs. We were running with a group of 8-10, so not exactly small, but certainly not a zerg. We had all farmed about 1000 stones or so, making our way back to base and an AD zerg of at least 40 players came throw the sewers like a bottle of Drano. There was no getting around it, there was no beating it, we were all just dead. There went 2 hours of work. I guess the current solution is to simply always port back to base, but that seems cost prohibitive from an AP standpoint for any causal PvP player.

Being able to get stones from other players is a very cool idea, but I just think it needs to be toned down a bit. I would think a cap of 50% and scale it down based on the number of people in the group that killed you.

An even cooler more complicated idea would be to make it so you can store Stones on the fly (perhaps with a cap), but anything that wasn't stored would go towards the multiplier and would therefore be at risk. Another thought would be a way to get back to the ladders in your base without going through the sewers. The sewers are perfect for zergs because there is often no place to run but back down a tiny little tunnel.

Hope499

Thats actually a really good idea OP.

I can see IC getting REALLLLLLLLY annoying if there are tons of 20 person groups killing my 6 man group.

myrrrorb14_ESO

If most of the pop is in IC, might be a good time to finish those cyrodil quests and dolmens. :-)

Robbmrp

Hopefully there will be smaller groups made for IC in the future. There isn't any point in joining a group of more than 12 at the most as half the group doesn't get any loot/stones. @ZOS should just disable group sizes over 6 within IC. That would be the simplest fix and could probably be done in a hot fix.

Minnesinger

The zerglings have been a nuisance since day one. Luckily, there are guilds that are hardcore enough to compete with them yet have less numbers. A positive way of thinking is that these zerglings aren´t good enough and get easily wiped with some good strat. In regards to pve, I don´t think many of them are ready to face these large bloodsucker groups. I am afraid they will zerg IC to breathless if not punished for their playstyle. We need the real zerg annihilator super dope thingy. Whatever it is I will revenge all and everything the zerglings have done and blame them for the initiative lag.

Kuroinu

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Hello
I played a few hours with some friends in the Ic and farmed a good amount of stones. but after some time there were zergs everywhere. You do a boss? bam 20 ppl all stomes lost. you do a quest? bam 20 ppl all stones lost. you rust run around killing deadra? bam 20 ppl all stones lost...
seriously this ruines the whole concept of IC. I really liked it in the first place where just solo players and groups of 4 were running around. There was a chance to avoid them but how do you avoid 20 ppl who just jump in your back?

Thats why I got the idea that you should loose less stones the more ppl are resposible for your death. Like 1 kills you you loose 80% for 2 pll its 70 and so on so the zerging is not worth it anymore and they are forced to go and make groups of 4 people. This would make it a lot more enjoyable in my opinion

Your concept in the second paragraph is very interesting and could be a solution to help dissolve "The Zerg" and at the very least show players a more productive way to gain Tel Var stones. While your idea isn't accurate as to what the values should be, it's a good step in the right direction for making PvP in the Imperial City more exciting and less disappointing.

Successfully deterring players from joining in on a Zerg would be the ultimate triumph by the PvP Development Team.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Hello
I played a few hours with some friends in the Ic and farmed a good amount of stones. but after some time there were zergs everywhere. You do a boss? bam 20 ppl all stomes lost. you do a quest? bam 20 ppl all stones lost. you rust run around killing deadra? bam 20 ppl all stones lost...
seriously this ruines the whole concept of IC. I really liked it in the first place where just solo players and groups of 4 were running around. There was a chance to avoid them but how do you avoid 20 ppl who just jump in your back?

Thats why I got the idea that you should loose less stones the more ppl are resposible for your death. Like 1 kills you you loose 80% for 2 pll its 70 and so on so the zerging is not worth it anymore and they are forced to go and make groups of 4 people. This would make it a lot more enjoyable in my opinion

Your concept in the second paragraph is very interesting and could be a solution to help dissolve "The Zerg" and at the very least show players a more productive way to gain Tel Var stones. While your idea isn't accurate as to what the values should be, it's a good step in the right direction for making PvP in the Imperial City more exciting and less disappointing.

Successfully deterring players from joining in on a Zerg would be the ultimate triumph by the PvP Development Team.

definitely those numbers were just excamples. but we need a system that makes zerging less valuable

Merlin13KAGL

Troneon wrote: »

Yep zergs ruin IC basically, this was said on PTS but I guess ZOS could not think of a way to counter large groups just zerging.

AOE Zergs are not even skillful, just running around spamming aoe skills until everything is dead....

Don't even have to think, just stay with group and spam those AOE skills.

Welcome to IC.

Aggro, @Troneon , there should be big nasty bosses in IC that disregard smaller groups entirely but get drawn to the masses like moths to flame.

It would automatically break up the zerg ball.

% lost could also be based on % damage done. 20 people firing off AoE aren't going to contribute as much damage per person, and shouldn't be reaping the same reward as a 1v1 kill.

Should require 50% PC damage to count as a PvP death, also. This crap of showing up at the right time and tagging someone once is hardly skilled play, either.

Unfortunately, with open access, this is going to be an issue more often than not.

bowmanz607

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Hello
I played a few hours with some friends in the Ic and farmed a good amount of stones. but after some time there were zergs everywhere. You do a boss? bam 20 ppl all stomes lost. you do a quest? bam 20 ppl all stones lost. you rust run around killing deadra? bam 20 ppl all stones lost...
seriously this ruines the whole concept of IC. I really liked it in the first place where just solo players and groups of 4 were running around. There was a chance to avoid them but how do you avoid 20 ppl who just jump in your back?

Thats why I got the idea that you should loose less stones the more ppl are resposible for your death. Like 1 kills you you loose 80% for 2 pll its 70 and so on so the zerging is not worth it anymore and they are forced to go and make groups of 4 people. This would make it a lot more enjoyable in my opinion

Your concept in the second paragraph is very interesting and could be a solution to help dissolve "The Zerg" and at the very least show players a more productive way to gain Tel Var stones. While your idea isn't accurate as to what the values should be, it's a good step in the right direction for making PvP in the Imperial City more exciting and less disappointing.

Successfully deterring players from joining in on a Zerg would be the ultimate triumph by the PvP Development Team.

definitely those numbers were just excamples. but we need a system that makes zerging less valuable

or just give us battle grounds with 8v8 or somthing like that.

vaagventje17eb17_ESO

WebBull wrote: »

It's day one. No one knows what they are doing are where they are going so they all join large groups. Give it sometime and zergs will probably die down some.

QWhwahsahsawhhahahahaha this made ma laugh, i heard the same argument on launch almost 2 years back, whahaha zergs disappearing on there own, don't make am laugh

bowmanz607

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

It's day one. No one knows what they are doing are where they are going so they all join large groups. Give it sometime and zergs will probably die down some.

QWhwahsahsawhhahahahaha this made ma laugh, i heard the same argument on launch almost 2 years back, whahaha zergs disappearing on there own, don't make am laugh

Bottom line it is more profitable in collecting stones to run in a small group. When running in IC people will start running in smaller groups to get more stones. Zerging 8s more practice for ap cause you take locations, farm people, and get ap against everyone you face. For stones you can't just keep killing the same people over and over again when they spawn because you get no stones cause they have non to get. You don't have that problem with ap. So zerg v zerg where ppl just respawning and join the fight you don't accumulate stines. At best everyone is trading a small pool of stones back and fourth that spreads evenly to all players making the pool per player very small. Asditionally, a zerg killing a small group is hardly worth it. You get very minimal returns or even nothing at all since it distributes to all your members. Small group is the most practice way to accumulate stones. When more ppl start tk realize zergs will thin out in the IC. Don't get me wrong there will still be some doing it for fun but nothing like it will be right now.

ItsMeToo

Multiple small groups will just run together as one large zerg. Therefore, forcing small groups will do nothing but cause more groups. More things that the servers will have to keep track of, which will increase lag.

KriHavok

It all comes down to stone management, you have to be able to decide when farming stones is enough and bank them before the risk becomes too high and you lose your stones.