Fights are Endless in Non-Vet PvP Right Now

Asmael

Mauz wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Listen to these people ZOS, restore the balance for the NON VET campaigns to pre-patch.

Please not! Just increase the dmg a bit. The rest of the changes are fine.

I suppose that's what they meant, just to revert the damage reduction...

On a side note, fights take longer but the resource pools are the same. It's kinda meh.

SturgeHammer

Anyone who cares about getting this fixed should push the issue in the Ask us Anything thread and twitch chat for the next live show since it doesn't seem like there is going to be any forum acknowledgement.

Paradox

Mauz wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Listen to these people ZOS, restore the balance for the NON VET campaigns to pre-patch.

Please not! Just increase the dmg a bit. The rest of the changes are fine.

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

Mauz

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

Paradox

Mauz wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

0% regeneration while blocking is still way too much reduction. I can barely mitigate any damage due to all of the reduction to it. I'm still being 3 shot in vet due to the stupidity of the healing and shield change.

JamilaRaj

Paradox wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

0% regeneration while blocking is still way too much reduction. I can barely mitigate any damage due to all of the reduction to it. I'm still being 3 shot in vet due to the stupidity of the healing and shield change.

Blocking is obsolete, damage is supposed to be mitigated by cloaking and evasion. Aside from passive reduction from battle spirit, which works even for clueless people doing nothing to recieve less damage.

Tillalarrien

Well I already said everithing I needed, now I am just here to beg ZOS to finally respond already!!!

zornyan

Blo

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

0% regeneration while blocking is still way too much reduction. I can barely mitigate any damage due to all of the reduction to it. I'm still being 3 shot in vet due to the stupidity of the healing and shield change.

Blocking is obsolete, damage is supposed to be mitigated by cloaking and evasion. Aside from passive reduction from battle spirit, which works even for clueless people doing nothing to recieve less damage.

So the tanks that are still doing endgame / pvp just fine using block still are obviously doing it the wrong way?

Paradox

zornyan wrote: »

Blo

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

0% regeneration while blocking is still way too much reduction. I can barely mitigate any damage due to all of the reduction to it. I'm still being 3 shot in vet due to the stupidity of the healing and shield change.

Blocking is obsolete, damage is supposed to be mitigated by cloaking and evasion. Aside from passive reduction from battle spirit, which works even for clueless people doing nothing to recieve less damage.

So the tanks that are still doing endgame / pvp just fine using block still are obviously doing it the wrong way?

NOT everyone that blocks is a tank. We've had this discussion and you're still wrong.

CavalierKing

They shouldn't have made any changes. Get rid of the damage/healing/shield reduction, and just leave the battle leveling to VR14. That'll do a lot to fix vet campaigns while still making it different from non vet.

raviour

this is why bb is nerf by prince farud /windcaller every night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07wplqV5Qos&feature=youtu.be

raviour

took warden with 1 other after wanted to cry yesterday

zornyan

Paradox wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Blo

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

It would be better if they just reverted everything. Nonvet was perfect in 1.6 and altering it is just a stupid decision.

I thought that too but meanwhile I think the changes to dodge, block and shields are good. My magicka nb could with lvl15 block for ages against multiple opponents, against a single oppenent my stamina bar didnt even move.

0% regeneration while blocking is still way too much reduction. I can barely mitigate any damage due to all of the reduction to it. I'm still being 3 shot in vet due to the stupidity of the healing and shield change.

Blocking is obsolete, damage is supposed to be mitigated by cloaking and evasion. Aside from passive reduction from battle spirit, which works even for clueless people doing nothing to recieve less damage.

So the tanks that are still doing endgame / pvp just fine using block still are obviously doing it the wrong way?

NOT everyone that blocks is a tank. We've had this discussion and you're still wrong.

But the point is blocking is not obsolete, it's merely more of a penalty to block with something other than a sword and shield, quite rightly so as you give up dps for skills and passives that decrease block cost and increase mitigation.

JamilaRaj

raviour wrote: »

this is why bb is nerf by prince farud /windcaller every night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07wplqV5Qos&feature=youtu.be

It is actually far worse than that, because about 1/3 of players are cloak spamming NBs that NPCs can not even hit just twice in a row.
The noob campaign was substantially better back when NPCs could two-three shot players (who could not spam skills anyway, having at best half of the regen they have now).

Tillalarrien

Guys I started a bit wider tread as this is apparently ignored, plys check it out and add your voice:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/215954/bwb-needs-fixing?new=1

I want fix or their reasoning for why the fix wont happen..

Paradox

Yeah, just wanted to clear up any confusion.

They don't care and they've made that clear. Very clear. Ignoring an issue as big as this? Forget CP, this is a damned outrage. But whatever. I'm probably quitting this game soon, if this nonsense keeps up.

SturgeHammer

I know this thread has aged a bit, but the Orsinium announcement says there will be "improvements to battle-leveling". This is highly relevant to BWB, and something we should all try out when the new content hits the PTS today.

josh.lackey_ESO

Woman wrote: »

@josh.lackey_ESO I am in support of all the changes except for adding the damage mitigation in BWB. They balanced vet to be more like BWB but then added that to BWB making the time to kill here kind of insane. You can no longer defend a keep if you are out numbered since siege is useless, all damage a player does is out done by health regeneration, and healing not makes any damage impossible. I'm sure some people are not happy with the changes but my build was personally not merged at all but rather made stronger and I still find the mitigation ridiculous. A lot of us have been in BWB and gone through insane changes over the last year- the biggest one being 1.6. We stuck it out because those changes just meant we had to change our builds to be effective. Here there is no build that will be effective, since it's damage mitigation across the board. The only build that works now is a Zerg.

I want to follow up and say that while I was skeptical of your criticism at first, after playing with the 1.7 changes for a while, I mostly concur with your original post. I have been in too many duels that were a stalemate, because neither of us could out-burst the other's sustain, even in a build with maximized dps. It would often go that, just when I thought I had the upper hand on someone, their ultimate would be ready and it would give them a chance to recover. With 1.7, the time to kill went up significantly, but the time to charge an ultimate did not. (This made groups with several templars especially hard to kill because they would have their healing ult up before you could get any of them killed.)

Having said all that, everything is TOTALLY different now. Battle Level was completely reinvented. I feel like 1.7 was intended to be a temporary state in order to transition to 1.8, and that may explain why ZOS didn't make it a priority to address any of the issues that were in 1.7.

I've heard through the grapevine that you've pretty much stopped playing. I hope you come back and take a look at 1.8. I am not sure you will think it's better or worse, but I'm interested what other people think about it. I haven't seen any posts specifically addressing it on the forums yet, which makes me wonder if everyone has just given up.

Cody

CP5 wrote: »

This should be fun... Could jump on my tank for a bit, see just how broken things are now.

in terms of damage, its pretty broken. If your character has low burst capability killing people will be very hard

Merlight

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Having said all that, everything is TOTALLY different now. Battle Level was completely reinvented. I feel like 1.7 was intended to be a temporary state in order to transition to 1.8, and that may explain why ZOS didn't make it a priority to address any of the issues that were in 1.7.

Sorry, this is BS. Did they remove CP from BwB, which has been requested since early into 1.6? No. Did they fix siege/NPC damage they borked in 1.7? No. Instead they made twinks hit harder than siege. GG

Mjollo

The current changes to battle-leveling have opened up Blackwater Blade to fun possibilities again. Siege actually hurts now, people die when mistakes are made, and keeps can indeed be successfully defended even if you're well out-numbered. I would say that Blackwater is now a good imitation of Vet in this current update.

Merlight

Defialed wrote: »

Siege actually hurts now...

Siege damage hasn't changed, it's pitiful like before. What has changed is that people have less health, and certain builds/abilities hit for much more damage than siege.

Defialed wrote: »

I would say that Blackwater is now a good imitation of Vet in this current update.

If that was the intention, then... well done? Except there's so much wrong with it that I don't even know where to start. BwB used to be considered superior to vet campaigns by many players. That's why we were playing there. All changes done to BwB were purely coincidental, none of them were designed with non-vet PvP in mind -- Champion Points, Battle Spirit, Battle Levelling. They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

Cody

Merlight wrote: »

Defialed wrote: »

Siege actually hurts now...

Siege damage hasn't changed, it's pitiful like before. What has changed is that people have less health, and certain builds/abilities hit for much more damage than siege.

Defialed wrote: »

I would say that Blackwater is now a good imitation of Vet in this current update.

If that was the intention, then... well done? Except there's so much wrong with it that I don't even know where to start. BwB used to be considered superior to vet campaigns by many players. That's why we were playing there. All changes done to BwB were purely coincidental, none of them were designed with non-vet PvP in mind -- Champion Points, Battle Spirit, Battle Levelling. They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

BwB is still superior in my opinion. I payed Azuras a visit a few times the past few days; and I was bored out of my mind. It was either Zerg blobbing, lagging to death, or lame one sided fights. The fights especially sucked. It was often nothing but shield stacking sorcerers and WB spamming NBs. I shudder to think how many are currently abusing the 42K stam regan bug.

in BwB, everyone is on about an even level stat wise, more builds are usable than in vet PvP, leading to more diversity and fun in combat, and lag is nowhere near as bad as it would be in a vet server. In other words, its a lot more balanced. If BwB would not have been added, I would have quit this game for good months ago. Vet PvP is horrible. Its a lag filled unbalanced mess with everyone running virtually the same builds, making every fight a seeming repeat of the last. this is something ZOS is fully capable of adjusting, but they refuse to because they are more about PvE and the crown store.

As of now, I will take BwB over any of the vet servers any day, i dont care if it makes me worse at the game or not. I would rather have fun diversified fights than go to the vet campaigns and constantly deal with a lag infested mess with everyone running the same 2-3 builds.

Valencer

See, vet campaigns being crap is exactly the reason Im currently still hanging out on BwB. The problem is, pre-IC I didn't need to justify it for myself like that - BwB was just that good.

This is literally the exact same thing as vet now. Except for the lack of insane lag. It's getting to a point where I wonder if BwB is worth not playing on my main and not gaining CP, while having to craft new gear every 5 levels.

josh.lackey_ESO

Merlight wrote: »

They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

Cheers to this. I agree with you. I have talked to a lot of people who love the new battle level, because it makes BwB like vet. I don't like it. If I wanted to play that kind of game, I would have just played in Azura. I am not sure what the purpose of making a lower-level imitation of vet PvP is. If anything, I'd rather have seen a campaign where everyone had normalized stats regardless of level. This is moving in the wrong direction.

We went from one extreme in 1.7 to the other in 1.8. Can we have something more like 1.6 please?

zornyan

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

Cheers to this. I agree with you. I have talked to a lot of people who love the new battle level, because it makes BwB like vet. I don't like it. If I wanted to play that kind of game, I would have just played in Azura. I am not sure what the purpose of making a lower-level imitation of vet PvP is. If anything, I'd rather have seen a campaign where everyone had normalized stats regardless of level. This is moving in the wrong direction.

We went from one extreme in 1.7 to the other in 1.8. Can we have something more like 1.6 please?

But you've got to think, non vet was designed for new players to try pvp in, the problem was, people were running around with 18kmagicka/stamina and 45k health.

So the second they hit vets they find out their glass cannon build can't block forever and doesn't have as much health as the tanks.

The new system is supposed to try and show people how their build will play out once they actually hit vet ranks and go down a certain route, glass cannon builds won't have 40k+ hp, stam users won't have 20k magicka to dump, and magicka users won't be able to block/break free for eternity.

I think people will have a far better idea of what's going on with their builds earlier on, and more diversity. People shouldn't be so shell shocked once they hit vet ranks.

Cody

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

Cheers to this. I agree with you. I have talked to a lot of people who love the new battle level, because it makes BwB like vet. I don't like it. If I wanted to play that kind of game, I would have just played in Azura. I am not sure what the purpose of making a lower-level imitation of vet PvP is. If anything, I'd rather have seen a campaign where everyone had normalized stats regardless of level. This is moving in the wrong direction.

We went from one extreme in 1.7 to the other in 1.8. Can we have something more like 1.6 please?

Vet is much worse than what BwB currently is. Trust me:)

Mjollo

Merlight wrote: »

Siege damage hasn't changed, it's pitiful like before. What has changed is that people have less health, and certain builds/abilities hit for much more damage than siege.

Yeah. that's what I meant by siege hurts.

If that was the intention, then... well done? Except there's so much wrong with it that I don't even know where to start. BwB used to be considered superior to vet campaigns by many players. That's why we were playing there. All changes done to BwB were purely coincidental, none of them were designed with non-vet PvP in mind -- Champion Points, Battle Spirit, Battle Levelling. They should've tried to imitate BwB experience in vet, not the other way around.

IMO The TTK is as it should be. If you make a mistake, there should be consequences. It was a bit ridiculous to think after landing a perfect combo the opposing player could easily still walk back into his base. Battle-spirit gives exactly what I wanted: Variety. We no longer are forced to use specific sets because of which ones were limited by the 5-piece. Blackwater is still superior to non-vet because we don't encourage people to stack as much. It's just a clash of zergs. If You're from EU, I can't speak for you but NA Blackwater is still the best choice to play.

Olen_Mikko

Nah, i kill within 10 seconds, and faster if opponent doesn't know any counters.

And i'm level 22 atm.

Mauz

Cody wrote: »

Vet is much worse than what BwB currently is. Trust me:)

I gave it a try but I find vet better. I was an hour or so defending roe. 9/10 attackers were nbs. defenders the same. It was soooo boring^^

And better is bwb just for vet players. Gear makes such a difference. Non vet noobs can't afford it, can't craft it and most likely don't even know about it.

It's nothing but an area where vet player waiting to seal club ppl with no idea of the game.