@ZOS - Please change Sorc passive Daedric Protection so it doesn't require a skill slotted

Erock25

For Daedric Summoning passive to be active, the Sorcerer needs a Daedric Summoning skill slotted. Let's take a look at what skills are available and whether they are likely to be slotted for PVP.

• Unstable Familiar (Clannfear) (Volatile)
  
  -Used in some magicka builds but rarely used for stamina builds. PVE Tanks may use Clannfear but the heal is not worth the casting time + magicka cost in PVP for a stamina build.
  
  
• Daedric Curse (Prey) (Velocious)
  
  -One of these morphs is used 100% of the time in all magicka PVP builds. Stamina builds will never use either morph.
  
  
• Summon Twilight (Restoring) (Matriarch)
  
  -Might be used by a magicka pet spec but will never be used by any stamina build.
  
  
• Conjured Ward (Empowered) (Hardened)
  
  -Used 100% of the time by all magicka builds and will never be used by any stamina build after the most recent shield nerf.
  
  
• Bound Armor (Aegis) (Armaments)
  
  -Only viable for certain PVP builds in both magicka and stamina. It is a toggle so it almost has to be on both bars if you plan on swapping a lot. The larger your group you run with in PVP, the more likely you will have room for one of these morphs. Solo players almost always need the ability slots for other uses.
  
  
• Storm Atronach (Greater) Charged)
  
  -I haven't seen any stamina builds using Storm Atronach, but I guess they could. It fits best with magicka pet builds using Daedric Prey, but is also useful to use for LOS your opponents. Overall a subpar ultimate in PVP and one that will never be used in my stamina builds but may get some play in a magicka build.
  
  

Looking at the list, there are two definite, without a doubt has to be on your bar abilities for magicka sorc in PVP (Curse and Ward). Then the other three skills and the ultimate are maybes for magicka builds and more likely to find room on your bar if you are running a magicka pet spec.

For stam sorc, there are only two maybes available and even they are very iffy. Armaments has a way better chance of being slotted than Storm Atro, but unless I start running in a large group, there is just no way to put it on one bar let alone two. Must haves for me are Crit Charge, Wrecking Blow, Rally, Executioner, Boundless/Thundering, Streak, off bar weapon ability (poison injection, steel tornado, deep slash, defensive posture, etc.) and Vigor. There are eight of my ten ability slots right there. At that point I'd rather have some combination of Crit Surge, Caltrops, Shuffle, Purge, Restraining Prison, Rune Prison or Camo Hunter over just Bound Armaments. I spent much of the weekend working on builds that could utilize Armaments to access Daedric Protection, and every combo I tried was better off with the additional slots instead of Armaments.

I'm fairly certain the addition of 20% stam regen to Daedric Protection was in direct response to PVP Stamina Sorcs complaining on PTS that they have been overlooked. That is why I do not understand why they went ahead and put a stamina buff tied to a passive that is incredibly difficult for PVP stam sorcs to have. In fact, almost every possible sorc builds (magicka/stam/tank/healer/pve/pvp) will have access to this passive on at least one of their bars (but usually on both) besides the exact build it was designed for which is PVP STAMINA SORC.

Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_EricWrobel, make it so this passive does not require a skill to be slotted. Every other build besides PVP Stam Sorc will have it anyway, so it isn't a big change except actually providing the build it was designed for to access it easier.

Zsymon

Stamina Sorc is in an amazing place now, better than Templar or DK.

Slotting Bound Armaments gives you Minor Resolve, 20% health recovery, 20% stamina recovery, 11% heavy attack damage, 2% weapon damage, +8% max stamina. I think that is a no brainer, any stamina Sorc should have this on both bars.

Right now Sorc stamina builds are far, far better than DK stamina builds, who don't get a single worthwhile synergy for offensive stamina builds. They don't get a single bonus to their stamina for being a DK, while Sorcs get both stamina recovery (more than NBs) and max stamina, as well as some weapon damage, and a lot more health recovery.

Erock25

Zsymon wrote: »

Stamina Sorc is in an amazing place now, better than Templar or DK.

Slotting Bound Armaments gives you Minor Resolve, 20% health recovery, 20% stamina recovery, 11% heavy attack damage, 2% weapon damage, +8% max stamina. I think that is a no brainer, any stamina Sorc should have this on both bars.

Right now Sorc stamina builds are far, far better than DK stamina builds, who don't get a single worthwhile synergy for offensive stamina builds. They don't get a single bonus to their stamina for being a DK, while Sorcs get both stamina recovery (more than NBs) and max stamina, as well as some weapon damage, and a lot more health recovery.

Please propose a solo or small scale pvp stam sorc build using armaments then and I'll try to explain why you're better off without it.

SturgeHammer

The only thing I will consider, and probably will have to slot to stay relevant, is the Storm Atronach. The ult is probably the most flexible part of my Stam Sorc build. The initial damage is meh, but it's an AoE stun which doesn't completely suck. Haven't looked into it yet, but if the Zap damage scales with my weapon damage and weapon crit it might actually be useful against other Stam builds, since the Zap is channel and can't be dodged by rolling (I think).

Xeven

What he said but I wasnt going to be as nice about it as he was.

People like you who @ the whole Zos crew without first rubbing two brain cells together are the reason we cant have nice things.

Stot bound armaments. Win.

Erock25

Zsymon wrote: »

Minor Resolve, 20% health recovery, 20% stamina recovery, 11% heavy attack damage, 2% weapon damage, +8% max stamina.

@Zsymon @Xeven Do either of you play a stamina Sorc? You are aware that Bound Armaments always gave Minor Resolve, 20% health recovery, 11% heavy attack damage, and +8% max stamina and NO ONE slotted it for PVP unless they were in a bomb group. You think that 20% stam recovery and 2% weapon damage puts it over the top to go from no one slotting it to a must have level? It looks good on paper, but I challenge you to put together a viable solo/small scale PVP build that utilizes it.

SturgeHammer wrote: »

The only thing I will consider, and probably will have to slot to stay relevant, is the Storm Atronach. The ult is probably the most flexible part of my Stam Sorc build. The initial damage is meh, but it's an AoE stun which doesn't completely suck. Haven't looked into it yet, but if the Zap damage scales with my weapon damage and weapon crit it might actually be useful against other Stam builds, since the Zap is channel and can't be dodged by rolling (I think).

This is probably what I would end up doing over using Bound Armaments in two slots. I still think that it makes sense to give the passive to all sorcs because every other sorc build will have a Daedric Summoning ability slotted anyway.

Jar_Ek

Ah but DKs get much better defensive abilities than stamina sorcerers (ward is just bad for stamina sorcerers, so they only get Lightning Form and Defensive rune vs Reflective scales, obsidian shield, spiked armour, petrify, ) and some good utility (Talons is much, much better than Encase, Dragon Blood is generally a better heal than Surge). Plus defensive passives for healing received, blocking, spell resist... and general passives (pretty much all except Ardent which don't help stamina at all). So I would argue that they are about the same for passives, but stamina sorcerers lack active punch.

Having said that I am okay with the new daedric protection anyway, I have other concerns with stamina sorcerers- but not with that passive to a huge extent.

Xeven

This guy. 20% Regen, 8% stam, 2% weapon power, and resist buff.

Not worth the slot.


lololol


You think magicka sorcs like to slot innerlight? We do it anyways.

Zsymon

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Ah but DKs get much better defensive abilities than stamina sorcerers (ward is just bad for stamina sorcerers, so they only get Lightning Form and Defensive rune vs Reflective scales, obsidian shield, spiked armour, petrify, ) and some good utility (Talons is much, much better than Encase, Dragon Blood is generally a better heal than Surge). Plus defensive passives for healing received, blocking, spell resist... and general passives (pretty much all except Ardent which don't help stamina at all). So I would argue that they are about the same for passives, but stamina sorcerers lack active punch.

Having said that I am okay with the new daedric protection anyway, I have other concerns with stamina sorcerers- but not with that passive to a huge extent.

Obsidian Shield is useless, the small damage shield it offers means you set your armor and spell res to 0 by using it, due to the overflow bug. Using Obsidian Shield is a massive debuff to yourself and everyone around you.

Xeven

supposedly overflow bug was fixed.

Erock25

Xeven wrote: »

This guy. 20% Regen, 8% stam, 2% weapon power, and resist buff.

Not worth the slot.


lololol


You thing magicka sorcs like to slot innerlight? We do it anyways.

How about instead of troll posts you engage in the dicussion. Do you have any stamina sorc experience in PVP? It really isn't worth the two slots when you actually look at possible builds and have to start cutting out abilities. Why is Daedric Protection even a 'if skill is slotted' passive when magicka sorcs and stam sorcs in pve will ALWAYS have it anyway?

I never ran with Innerlight in PVP either.

Jar_Ek

Ok, but so is ward for a stamina sorcerer.

Xeven

As a sorc, Ill get behind removing toggles period. I will not get behind a corner case that benifits only stamina. Sorry.

Erock25

Xeven wrote: »

As a sorc, Ill get behind removing toggles period. I will not get behind a corner case that benifits only stamina. Sorry.

The passive was introduced specifically to adress stamina sorc concerns and while it helps in PVE (I will always slot Bound Armaments in PVE), it does nothing to help most stam sorc PVP builds.

Huggalump

in pvp, I'm using

2h:

1-rally
2-thundering (might change back to magic morph, not sure)
3-wreckingblow
4-crit rush
5-bound armaments
6-Flawless Dawnbreak

Bow:
1- Crit surge (option. redundant with rally, but it's a LOT of healing to stack. Will probably change for vigor when i get it)
2- venom arrow
3- snipe
4- streak
5- bound armaments
6- overload (just for the extra bar )

Having a toggle is a pain in the ass, but it's doable. Would LOVE to have execute so I can actually have some sort of burst....

Would also LOVE to have some kind of sorcerer stamina damage so I'm not limited to using skills that basically have nothing to do with being a sorcerer. And skills that templars and nightblades have available, but choose not to use.

Dracane

Hm I must agree, that Bound Armaments isn't really impressive, considering it needs 2 slots. 2 slots for this bonus is not really strong imo. Both Bound Armor morphs are rather a problem than a real help. I don't even use Bound armor as a Magicka Sorcerer, I always prefer Magelight because it's MUUUCH better for magic than Bound Armor. Both morphs are still very poor.

Bound Armor won't give a stamina Sorcerer the strong utility and defense of Dragonknights. Even thought I think, that Dragonknights deserve to be a better stamina class and they clearly are.