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(Bug) Bleeding Effects

Alcast
Alcast
Class Representative
Axes:
After 2s the first Bleeding DoT should get applied. However, when I spam Light Attack it always "resets" the bleeding DoT and the timer starts from 0 again. Meaning the enemy never actually starts to bleed from the Axe passive.

When can the Axe bleed be applied?
While Enemy is blocking = Yes
While the Enemy has a shield up = No

8dff6f14a3bb161dd8233e78b60e6b27.png


Bleeding DoTs in general: (Blood Craze, Rending Slashes, Brawler etc.)

If the enemy is Blocking or has a Shield up, only the initial hit does damage and the bleed damage of the skills is getting ignored.
1482ed9fd418ffc8386896a9c4f7eac2.png

To make DoTs in general worthwhile in pvp it should be possible to put them on the enemy even if he/she is blocking or has a shield up. Otherwise we will always only see people spamming the skill which does the most dmg.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Edited by Alcast on August 31, 2015 8:42AM
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  • BuggeX
    BuggeX
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    I would say, dots in general should not get refreshed.
    #makemagickadkgreataigan
    #givemeaexecute
    #ineedheal
    #betterhotfixgrindspots
  • Domander
    Domander
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    I fully agree.
  • Miwerton
    Miwerton
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    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Miwerton wrote: »
    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.

    Wrong, they don't ignore primary DoTs, only secondary DoTs and blocking does the same. So..
    Edited by Dracane on August 31, 2015 8:59AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Miwerton
    Miwerton
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.

    Wrong, they don't ignore primary DoTs, only secondary DoTs and blocking does the same. So..

    Nope, things like poison injection and unstable flame persist if blocking, but in shields these dots dissapears and dont do anything but an initial hit damage.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Miwerton wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.

    Wrong, they don't ignore primary DoTs, only secondary DoTs and blocking does the same. So..

    Nope, things like poison injection and unstable flame persist if blocking, but in shields these dots dissapears and dont do anything but an initial hit damage.

    Same goes to quite a few other abilities. They only do inital hit damage against blocks but the DoT won't apply.
    Doesn't change the fact, that primary DoTs always work.
    Edited by Dracane on August 31, 2015 9:14AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Miwerton
    Miwerton
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.

    Wrong, they don't ignore primary DoTs, only secondary DoTs and blocking does the same. So..

    Nope, things like poison injection and unstable flame persist if blocking, but in shields these dots dissapears and dont do anything but an initial hit damage.

    Same goes to quite a few other abilities. They only do inital hit damage against blocks but the DoT won't apply.
    Doesn't change the fact, that primary DoTs always work.

    This is about shields, shields ignores dots, they get the inital hit but nothing else, removing the dot cappability. Ergo its no longer a proper dot, in the context of it.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Miwerton wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    This thing has been around a long time, Shields for some idiotic reason ignores all dots that arent ground effects dot, like caltrops, cinder storm and refreshing path. Reason why shieldstackers are so powerfull (with dots actually working on shields it would add a more dangerous and intresting element to fights in pvp). And now to play the waiting game for some shieldstacker to rage on me^^.

    Wrong, they don't ignore primary DoTs, only secondary DoTs and blocking does the same. So..

    Nope, things like poison injection and unstable flame persist if blocking, but in shields these dots dissapears and dont do anything but an initial hit damage.

    Same goes to quite a few other abilities. They only do inital hit damage against blocks but the DoT won't apply.
    Doesn't change the fact, that primary DoTs always work.

    This is about shields, shields ignores dots, they get the inital hit but nothing else, removing the dot cappability. Ergo its no longer a proper dot, in the context of it.

    It is about shields and shields don't ignore primary DoTs O.o how often do I have to say it.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Miwerton
    Miwerton
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    Obvious a shieldstacker, from my test all single targets dots did not do any dot when enemy had shield up.
    And no they did not use purge of purifyin ritual.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Miwerton wrote: »
    Obvious a shieldstacker, from my test all single targets dots did not do any dot when enemy had shield up.
    And no they did not use purge of purifyin ritual.

    Entropy and Soul Trap for example can't be negated by shields or blocks. As they are primary DoTs
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    Obvious a shieldstacker, from my test all single targets dots did not do any dot when enemy had shield up.
    And no they did not use purge of purifyin ritual.

    Entropy and Soul Trap for example can't be negated by shields or blocks. As they are primary DoTs

    And they happen to be some of the weakest dots ingame.

    Topic: What should work: Destructive reach dot, Poison injection, Crippling Grasp, Bleeds from Blood craze.

    Sadly they dont. And most of them don't apply to blocking targets neither

    The knockback from fiery reach doesn't even work on shielded targets, which is such bs.
    EU | PC
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Master_Kas wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Miwerton wrote: »
    Obvious a shieldstacker, from my test all single targets dots did not do any dot when enemy had shield up.
    And no they did not use purge of purifyin ritual.

    Entropy and Soul Trap for example can't be negated by shields or blocks. As they are primary DoTs

    And they happen to be some of the weakest dots ingame.

    Topic: What should work: Destructive reach dot, Poison injection, Crippling Grasp, Bleeds from Blood craze.

    Sadly they dont. And most of them don't apply to blocking targets neither

    The knockback from fiery reach doesn't even work on shielded targets, which is such bs.

    I don't think bleeds should apply at all. If you hit a damage shield, you don't hit the flesh of the target and if someone blocks your attacks with a shield, you don't hit his flesh either.

    But I definately agree that destructive touch, poison enjection and so on should apply to shields and blocks. And I considered soul trap and entropy as the rather strong DoTs compared the other trash DoTs in the game. But well :D
    Edited by Dracane on August 31, 2015 10:45AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    @Dracane I wonder how you apply poison to someone without piercing the flesh either (some form of gas perhaps ?).
    For consistency's sake PI should work just like bleeds.
    However, taking this consideration a step further that would also mean that shields cant protect you against those damage sources, once they are applied. After all they are shields and do not close your wounds or extract poison from your body.

    This would imo have been one of the more elegant ways of ZOS to provide a counter to shieldstacking by the way, while it is somewhat similar to shieldbreaker, it would require the shields to be pierced first, before the pressure from the DoTs could be applied. This way shields wouldn't protect yourself against everything and some sort of heal would probably be required by shield builds to defend themselves completely, however the DoTs only last a certain amount of time and the dynamic of combat might very well change during that, so the shield user has a way to retaliate without having to worry about a constant threat to his healthpool.
    Jo'Khaljor
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Ahzek wrote: »
    @Dracane I wonder how you apply poison to someone without piercing the flesh either (some form of gas perhaps ?).
    For consistency's sake PI should work just like bleeds.
    However, taking this consideration a step further that would also mean that shields cant protect you against those damage sources, once they are applied. After all they are shields and do not close your wounds or extract poison from your body.

    This would imo have been one of the more elegant ways of ZOS to provide a counter to shieldstacking by the way, while it is somewhat similar to shieldbreaker, it would require the shields to be pierced first, before the pressure from the DoTs could be applied. This way shields wouldn't protect yourself against everything and some sort of heal would probably be required by shield builds to defend themselves completely, however the DoTs only last a certain amount of time and the dynamic of combat might very well change during that, so the shield user has a way to retaliate without having to worry about a constant threat to his healthpool.

    Once a Dot is applied, it should keep on damageing the target. I would dare to say, that bleeds should damage the health bar, even though you apply a damage shield to yourself. And DoTs should just damage the shield once they are applied. And both should only be applied as soon as you break the shield and manage to apply them.

    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    I just remember ZOS once said (on eso Live?) that bleeding should ignore shields and be a good counter attack to force shieldstackers to do smth else than just spam shields. But cant remember when they said that.
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Alcast wrote: »
    I just remember ZOS once said (on eso Live?) that bleeding should ignore shields and be a good counter attack to force shieldstackers to do smth else than just spam shields. But cant remember when they said that.

    As if shield stackers aren't forced to sacrifise enough skill slots to maintain this.
    Why don't they just remove shield stacking and make single shields strong enough to survive.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Dots in general have been bad for a long time.

    To many things counter it, and we haven't even gotten to the stage where you can get an extra 25% damage reduction from CP on them...which is just stupid..

  • Miwerton
    Miwerton
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    Bleeding from axes should get the same status on target as poisoned and burning, And having to wait until the current bleed effect is over to be reaplied, This would make axes more viable options ( at least in Dual wield).
  • danno8
    danno8
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    Yah having DoT's affect shields, and persist in harming health after shields expire, and not being negated by applying a shield could have been a good way to provide counter play to shield stackers AND perma blockers rather than this ham fisted 50% shield strength nerf and 100% stamina regen nerf.

    Play: shield stacker/perma blocker
    Counter play : DoT stacker
    Counter-counter play : Purge
    Counter-Counter-counter play: create 1-2 expensive unpurgable DoT's in the weapon lines

    Play/counter-play, interesting builds, pros/cons, interesting combat, balance....all that good stuff.
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    the Dmg Shield nerf is USELESS, they still can spam those shields like there is no tomorrow >.>
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  • danno8
    danno8
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    Alcast wrote: »
    the Dmg Shield nerf is USELESS, they still can spam those shields like there is no tomorrow >.>

    Yah they didn't actually adjust it relative to everything else. It would have been the same result for perma-blocking if they had increased the cost of blocking 35% while in Cyrodiil. But they gave blocking a true nerf with the 100% no regen.

    The shield stacking nerf changes nothing when everything that can remove a shield also gets a (near) equivalent nerf.

    Same with healing. My Templar feels no different healing wise, just as strong. Only he doesn't get 2 shotted if caught off guard.

    Honestly if spike damage 100%-->0% was too much (and it was) they should have just bumped up health in Cyrodiil.
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