Bugs in Costcalculation

Soulac

Hello,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) Passive "Athletics"
So far it seems that the medium armor passive "Athletics" doesn´t reduce the cost of dodge roll by 4% per medium armor part.
It looks more towards 3.5% per slotted part! First I thought it has something to do with my cost reduction glyphs or other passives, but even on a clear V16 Template using only this single passive and 7/7 Medium Armor parts my dodge doesn´t get a cost reduction of 28%.

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) Passive "Athletics"
So far it seems that the medium armor passive "Athletics" doesn´t reduce the cost of dodge roll by 4% per medium armor part.
It looks more towards 3.5% per slotted part! First I thought it has something to do with my cost reduction glyphs or other passives, but even on a clear V16 Template using only this single passive and 7/7 Medium Armor parts my dodge doesn´t get a cost reduction of 28%.

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

Huh? You know the answer to this Soulac!

This has been like this since 1.6 and we both worked out the cost reduction formulas then!

*All* cost reduction percentages with the exception of CPs which are calculated differently are affected by the 12.3% Cost Reduction nerf that was added randomly in 1.6.

Apply the same formula to dodge roll that you use with spell cost and it works out exactly.

Ezareth

Ohh and on the Legendary V16 Glyph I was getting 225 Cost reduction with no other reductions (unless this just changed again with the last patch...I tested on 2.1.2)

This also has always been the case. On live the tooltip for V14 legendary reads 200 but actually provides between 211 and 211 reduction respectively.

Soulac

Ezareth wrote: »

Ohh and on the Legendary V16 Glyph I was getting 225 Cost reduction with no other reductions (unless this just changed again with the last patch...I tested on 2.1.2)

This also has always been the case. On live the tooltip for V14 legendary reads 200 but actually provides between 211 and 211 reduction respectively.

My Breakfree costs 4.872 without anything and 4636 with one glyph of 203 Reduction. :P

Gyudan

Somebody buy Eric Wrobel a math book already.

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ohh and on the Legendary V16 Glyph I was getting 225 Cost reduction with no other reductions (unless this just changed again with the last patch...I tested on 2.1.2)

This also has always been the case. On live the tooltip for V14 legendary reads 200 but actually provides between 211 and 211 reduction respectively.

My Breakfree costs 4.872 without anything and 4636 with one glyph of 203 Reduction. :P

I've never done the testing on break free as that is much more difficult to reproduce solo (and it sucks when a regen tick hits at the same time before you can memorize the number. I test either with dodge roll or tooltip reduction of abilities.

Soulac

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ohh and on the Legendary V16 Glyph I was getting 225 Cost reduction with no other reductions (unless this just changed again with the last patch...I tested on 2.1.2)

This also has always been the case. On live the tooltip for V14 legendary reads 200 but actually provides between 211 and 211 reduction respectively.

My Breakfree costs 4.872 without anything and 4636 with one glyph of 203 Reduction. :P

I've never done the testing on break free as that is much more difficult to reproduce solo (and it sucks when a regen tick hits at the same time before you can memorize the number. I test either with dodge roll or tooltip reduction of abilities.

On Surprise Attack it is 235.

I got my mobs to test dodge, breakfree, block and dodge.. :P

Eglath

That moment when players are better at calculations than devs...
From what I've seen cost reduction glyphs on live give you actual lower value than tooltip states

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ohh and on the Legendary V16 Glyph I was getting 225 Cost reduction with no other reductions (unless this just changed again with the last patch...I tested on 2.1.2)

This also has always been the case. On live the tooltip for V14 legendary reads 200 but actually provides between 211 and 211 reduction respectively.

My Breakfree costs 4.872 without anything and 4636 with one glyph of 203 Reduction. :P

I've never done the testing on break free as that is much more difficult to reproduce solo (and it sucks when a regen tick hits at the same time before you can memorize the number. I test either with dodge roll or tooltip reduction of abilities.

On Surprise Attack it is 235.

I got my mobs to test dodge, breakfree, block and dodge.. :P

Ahh I may have mis-remembered 225, 235 sounds correct then. 236 sounds viable for break free since most of these scaling on these enchants actually provides a decimal value or reduction.

Eglath wrote: »

That moment when players are better at calculations than devs...
From what I've seen cost reduction glyphs on live give you actual lower value than tooltip states

That is because the benefit they provide is reduced by cost reduction and champion point reduction passives.

Minno

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) Passive "Athletics"
So far it seems that the medium armor passive "Athletics" doesn´t reduce the cost of dodge roll by 4% per medium armor part.
It looks more towards 3.5% per slotted part! First I thought it has something to do with my cost reduction glyphs or other passives, but even on a clear V16 Template using only this single passive and 7/7 Medium Armor parts my dodge doesn´t get a cost reduction of 28%.

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

Huh? You know the answer to this Soulac!

This has been like this since 1.6 and we both worked out the cost reduction formulas then!

*All* cost reduction percentages with the exception of CPs which are calculated differently are affected by the 12.3% Cost Reduction nerf that was added randomly in 1.6.

Apply the same formula to dodge roll that you use with spell cost and it works out exactly.

Unrelated, but the difference between actual numbers and design numbers in building industry/architecture is what is commonly known as "nominal". You'd use that term to say the nearest whole number of a product but actually its a certain percentage less after actual engineering comes into play.

Just a little lession

Soulac

Oh posted in alliance war accidentally, moved it to the pts forum.

These calculation bugs exist since 1.6 PTS and it seems to apply on "OverKill" as well, please look at it!

Asayre

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

For magicka spells I found the following formula

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

And base cost is not the value when you are naked at v16. To get the base cost you have to divide the value you get at v16 by 1.1625. This is why you get 236 cost reduction because it is 203*1.1625. My equations agrees with your observation of Molag Kena cost increase

Soulac

Asayre wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

For magicka spells I found the following formula

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

And base cost is not the value when you are naked at v16. To get the base cost you have to divide the value you get at v16 by 1.1625. This is why you get 236 cost reduction because it is 203*1.1625. My equations agrees with your observation of Molag Kena cost increase

What does the Lvl Part mean? :P

(Base / 1,1625 - FlatCR * 1,1625)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-0,21+0,33)*(1-0,25)

Like that but what do i take as level?

Ezareth

Minno wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) Passive "Athletics"
So far it seems that the medium armor passive "Athletics" doesn´t reduce the cost of dodge roll by 4% per medium armor part.
It looks more towards 3.5% per slotted part! First I thought it has something to do with my cost reduction glyphs or other passives, but even on a clear V16 Template using only this single passive and 7/7 Medium Armor parts my dodge doesn´t get a cost reduction of 28%.

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

Huh? You know the answer to this Soulac!

This has been like this since 1.6 and we both worked out the cost reduction formulas then!

*All* cost reduction percentages with the exception of CPs which are calculated differently are affected by the 12.3% Cost Reduction nerf that was added randomly in 1.6.

Apply the same formula to dodge roll that you use with spell cost and it works out exactly.

Unrelated, but the difference between actual numbers and design numbers in building industry/architecture is what is commonly known as "nominal". You'd use that term to say the nearest whole number of a product but actually its a certain percentage less after actual engineering comes into play.

Just a little lession

I have no idea what you just said haha.

I gave the exact percentage reduction number because for whatever reason that is what they chose to nerf cost reduction by and I'd never classify that as nominal.

Minno

Ezareth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1) Passive "Athletics"
So far it seems that the medium armor passive "Athletics" doesn´t reduce the cost of dodge roll by 4% per medium armor part.
It looks more towards 3.5% per slotted part! First I thought it has something to do with my cost reduction glyphs or other passives, but even on a clear V16 Template using only this single passive and 7/7 Medium Armor parts my dodge doesn´t get a cost reduction of 28%.

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

Huh? You know the answer to this Soulac!

This has been like this since 1.6 and we both worked out the cost reduction formulas then!

*All* cost reduction percentages with the exception of CPs which are calculated differently are affected by the 12.3% Cost Reduction nerf that was added randomly in 1.6.

Apply the same formula to dodge roll that you use with spell cost and it works out exactly.

Unrelated, but the difference between actual numbers and design numbers in building industry/architecture is what is commonly known as "nominal". You'd use that term to say the nearest whole number of a product but actually its a certain percentage less after actual engineering comes into play.

Just a little lession

I have no idea what you just said haha.

I gave the exact percentage reduction number because for whatever reason that is what they chose to nerf cost reduction by and I'd never classify that as nominal.

Just cross referencing another industry and how they call what's actually in practice versus what's designed. Nothing about ESO or anything negative about this post.

Just happy its Friday lol

Asayre

Soulac wrote: »

Asayre wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

For magicka spells I found the following formula

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

And base cost is not the value when you are naked at v16. To get the base cost you have to divide the value you get at v16 by 1.1625. This is why you get 236 cost reduction because it is 203*1.1625. My equations agrees with your observation of Molag Kena cost increase

What does the Lvl Part mean? :P

(Base / 1,1625 - FlatCR * 1,1625)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-0,21+0,33)*(1-0,25)

Like that but what do i take as level?

I posted the following on another thread but just for your convenience I've reproduced it here. It seems that either I made an error or there was an adjustment in PTS 2.1.3 but the correct formula should be

Spell cost=(Base*(1-Magician)-Flat CR)*(1.1625-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])

For some reason the 1.1625 works at V16 I don't know why

Here is an example calculation

The base cost of Crystal Fragments is 3143. I have 46 points in Magician (10%). I'm a Breton Sorcerer with 3 points in Evocation and 5 LA pieces (15%), 3 points in Magicka Mastery (3%) and 2 points in Unholy Knowledge (5%). I also have equipped 3 enchantments of spell cost reduction (203 each). The cost of Crystal Fragments is then calculated to be

(3143*(0.9)-203*3)*(1.1625-0.15-0.03-0.05) = 2069

The actual value in the tooltip is 2070

With the 2 piece set bonus of Molag Kena active, my tooltip shows 2803. The formula I provided suggest

(3143*(0.9)-203*3)*(1.1625-0.15-0.03-0.05+0.33) = 2802

PS. The base cost is not the spell cost of a naked/no skill/no CP V16. It is the spell cost of a naked/no skill/no CP V16 divided by 1.1625.

Personofsecrets

diminished returns

SeptimusDova

Soulac for Emperor of Cats !!

Soulac

Asayre wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Asayre wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Hello,

2) Overkill
The proc from the molag kena set doesn´t increase an ability cost by 33%. It looks more like something between 28.4% and 28.8%- tested with Overkill only and no other reduction and with reductions.
(BaseCost * (1 - ChampionPassive) - FlatReduction) * (1 + Overkill - MediumArmorPassive)

3) Enchants
CostReduction Glyphs on PTS show a value of "203" for a legendary glyph.
In case i don´t wear any equip except this one jewelry and no other Equip or CP it reduces my ability costs by exact 236.

Please look over it!

For magicka spells I found the following formula

Spell cost=(Base-Flat CR)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])*(1-Magician)

And base cost is not the value when you are naked at v16. To get the base cost you have to divide the value you get at v16 by 1.1625. This is why you get 236 cost reduction because it is 203*1.1625. My equations agrees with your observation of Molag Kena cost increase

What does the Lvl Part mean? :P

(Base / 1,1625 - FlatCR * 1,1625)*(1+0.25*(Lvl-1)-0,21+0,33)*(1-0,25)

Like that but what do i take as level?

I posted the following on another thread but just for your convenience I've reproduced it here. It seems that either I made an error or there was an adjustment in PTS 2.1.3 but the correct formula should be

Spell cost=(Base*(1-Magician)-Flat CR)*(1.1625-%CR+Molag Kena[2P])

For some reason the 1.1625 works at V16 I don't know why

Here is an example calculation

The base cost of Crystal Fragments is 3143. I have 46 points in Magician (10%). I'm a Breton Sorcerer with 3 points in Evocation and 5 LA pieces (15%), 3 points in Magicka Mastery (3%) and 2 points in Unholy Knowledge (5%). I also have equipped 3 enchantments of spell cost reduction (203 each). The cost of Crystal Fragments is then calculated to be

(3143*(0.9)-203*3)*(1.1625-0.15-0.03-0.05) = 2069

The actual value in the tooltip is 2070

With the 2 piece set bonus of Molag Kena active, my tooltip shows 2803. The formula I provided suggest

(3143*(0.9)-203*3)*(1.1625-0.15-0.03-0.05+0.33) = 2802

PS. The base cost is not the spell cost of a naked/no skill/no CP V16. It is the spell cost of a naked/no skill/no CP V16 divided by 1.1625.

Thanks, yours is a bit shorter than my formula and probably a bit more accurate as well.
Will try it!