Non-Templar healing class

MrGrimey

Templar is the best and easiest healer, not to sound rude, but if you can't heal with a Templar, maybe healing isn't for you? I don't think it gets better with any other class. I also don't think that race is the issue, that 10% extra magic is not going to make or break a healer.

If you are on ps4 NA, you can run a dungeon with me and I can see what your problem is

WyldfireWyrm

MrGrimey wrote: »

Templar is the best and easiest healer, not to sound rude, but if you can't heal with a Templar, maybe healing isn't for you? I don't think it gets better with any other class. I also don't think that race is the issue, that 10% extra magic is not going to make or break a healer.

If you are on ps4 NA, you can run a dungeon with me and I can see what your problem is

Race isn't the issue. My magicka is acceptable as it is. I think my issue is that the role I chose to start as is not necessarily what I'm looking to do anymore and I came here looking for options.

There is no doubt that the Templar is the easiest class to heal with, but I won't open the can of worms on the "best". LOL They are all viable and different in their own rights. But I feel I am a competent player and could heal other dungeons on a different class.

I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for right now and unfortunately there are a few ideas that are appealing to me on paper, but might not be in practice. I mean, the Templar healer was a fantastic class choice for me in theory until I hit veteran levels and now I'm thinking it isn't the class and role combination for me.

For now, I think I'm going to try turning my Khajiit into a magicka tank and seeing how that works out for me. If I don't like it, I'll try out stamina DPS. If that doesn't work, I think the character will take a seat on the bench while I screw around with something else.

WyldfireWyrm

Not to mention that when Mutagen gets fixed, it will close the gap between Templar and the 3 other classes in terms of healing because the only thing Templars have for healing that other classes don't is BoL. And BoL will still be better than Mutagen even after the fix, but it will make non-Templar healers a little easier to play.

Lord Xanhorn

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Not to mention that when Mutagen gets fixed, it will close the gap between Templar and the 3 other classes in terms of healing because the only thing Templars have for healing that other classes don't is BoL. And BoL will still be better than Mutagen even after the fix, but it will make non-Templar healers a little easier to play.

Yes but you see what people are saying...You are saying you cant heal with a Templar and that you should reroll a different class. Others are saying, if you cant heal on a Templar then you can heal with anything.

If its a matter of healing isn't fun with a Templar, that's a different story.

New healers should be using healing springs, like a lot. It stacks up to 3 times and is very efficient.

WyldfireWyrm

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Not to mention that when Mutagen gets fixed, it will close the gap between Templar and the 3 other classes in terms of healing because the only thing Templars have for healing that other classes don't is BoL. And BoL will still be better than Mutagen even after the fix, but it will make non-Templar healers a little easier to play.

Yes but you see what people are saying...You are saying you cant heal with a Templar and that you should reroll a different class. Others are saying, if you cant heal on a Templar then you can heal with anything.

If its a matter of healing isn't fun with a Templar, that's a different story.

New healers should be using healing springs, like a lot. It stacks up to 3 times and is very efficient.

I may not have been very clear, for which I apologize. I can heal on my Templar. It's basically just BoL spamming. My issues have come from BoL spamming that drains my magicka too quickly (not often a problem since getting my gear sets) and not contributing enough to DPS. And yes, BoL spamming is getting boring.

Though I will admit that the lack of a burst heal like BoL is a little unsettling. I think having a healer class that can add something more to the group besides just heals and some resources would be more fun and functional. Some decent DPS and maybe some good CC would be a welcome change for me.

The Templar heals are powerful, but I think that where bosses are concerned, just healing isn't enough, especially with some of these crazy fight mechanics. BoL spam will keep people going for days, but I have a small snare, a great healing ultimate and a single target stun available to me to help out. DPS output is also low except when executing.

DKS have a large snare with good damage, a large CC, knock down skills, a group shield that increases heals given, the best defensive bonus, and great DPS. Nightblades have cheap damage skills that also heal, a health steal, a fear and good DPS. Sorcerers have a boss elimination ultimate (if they save it up), a large stunning ultimate, a hard hitting cheap knockdown, a better class shield, pets to spread out aggro and a strong CC. Their damage is a little better than Templars, though not by much.

Savos_Saren

@WyldfireWyrm

You might want to check out NB healers. Some people might be nay-sayers about it... but they probably haven't actually run as a NB healer. I can honestly tell you that they are absolutely a blast to play. I have a V14 NB Bosmer stam DPS and I've given him up for my V5 NB Dunmer magicka healer.

I've run Vet Pledges, as a three-man group, with my DPS/Healer. I can solo Upper Craglorn bosses and I've run two-man groups in Craglorn delves with my wife (she's a tank).

Instead of listening to a bunch of arguments about who's got the better class for healing, why don't you message me in-game? I'll show you the results and you can judge from there.

I'm @Mephis_Stopholis I'll be under my toon: Screamin' Demon.

Cheers!

Taylor21554

To be honest, I'm a lvl 6 vet templar with 27k magicka, 1300 spell damage, 1800 magicka regeneration, and the right tank and group with proper gear/knows how to avoid damage can be just as good argument on how to heal, and how to stay out of damage

eliisra

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Not to mention that when Mutagen gets fixed, it will close the gap between Templar and the 3 other classes in terms of healing because the only thing Templars have for healing that other classes don't is BoL. And BoL will still be better than Mutagen even after the fix, but it will make non-Templar healers a little easier to play.

Yes but you see what people are saying...You are saying you cant heal with a Templar and that you should reroll a different class. Others are saying, if you cant heal on a Templar then you can heal with anything.

If its a matter of healing isn't fun with a Templar, that's a different story.

New healers should be using healing springs, like a lot. It stacks up to 3 times and is very efficient.

I may not have been very clear, for which I apologize. I can heal on my Templar. It's basically just BoL spamming. My issues have come from BoL spamming that drains my magicka too quickly (not often a problem since getting my gear sets) and not contributing enough to DPS. And yes, BoL spamming is getting boring.

Though I will admit that the lack of a burst heal like BoL is a little unsettling. I think having a healer class that can add something more to the group besides just heals and some resources would be more fun and functional. Some decent DPS and maybe some good CC would be a welcome change for me.

Probably a case of being lower level and not having that many champion points. As a VR14 templar with decent gear and around 300+, you will be able to use BoL all day long and do nice dps.

But during lower levels you need a cheaper play style. It's more about resource management and maybe more "boring".

Use Healing Springs v.s. minor dmg and heavy attack with resto for magicka now and again. Don't bother that much trying to dps. No one expects a VR5 or whatever templar to dish out mad dps any way. Throw Spear Shard for stamina synergy, pick the morph Blazing Spear since you wanted a CC and more dmg. Beam during execute phase when possible. But mainly focus on keeping people alive and your own magicka pool topped up. Channelled Focus helps a lot.

If you want a class that does more than just healing, you picked the best one already.

Second best choice is NB in my opinion. They do heal passively and loads, while dps'ing. Strong ulti's for heal/support play and nice utility. But lacking Breath of Life, makes it a bit harder.

Also harder for non templar healers overall because of crap attitudes. Some pugs or group leaders only takes templars. They wont even give other classes a chance to prove they can heal. I fear that behaviour will be even more common in 2.1, since templar is the only class that can give instant stamina back to the group. Just a heads up before you re-roll.

Suntzu1414

one of the challanges of off-heals healers, with next patch.
Is sets like Combat Medic Set.

Using off-heals like funnel health, didnt proc shield buff.
Which for the life of me, i don't know why...

Also noted, the redistributor didn't proc either...
(with off-heals)...sent bug notice...no reply


so, if this is the direction (zeni is going).
Then pure healers, will defintately have advantage in end game.


Kill Well
ST

Artifact

I am a nightblade healer and find that it mostly comes down to communication. I use refreshing path and sap essence during groups of mobs and find that if the team stay close by the aoe heals easily heal through any damage they take and still deal good damage. I just make sure the rest of the group knows to stay close. Don't be too worried about how you think you are doing but try to make sure the rest of your group know what you to make your heals more effective. If your in xbox one eu I could run through some stuff with you?

Jumper45

Id say go tank. if not that then dps. Templar has the highest healing and can be one of the highest dps if done correctly ( magicka and stamina) and the tanking isnt that bad at all ( templar healing ulti is quite useful). That being said you cant go wrong with templar. They can literally do everything and still be in one of the top 3 builds. Maybe healing just isnt for you. Try one of the other 3 builds. But if you were to say you would toss the templar all together makes me cringe knowing it can be top in all 4 catagories. On top of all that they are the easiest to work with vs the other classes that require more skill and thought going into it. But ill say it again just for the sake of saying it. If youre healing you do not need to contribute to dps. you CAN. But you do not need to. That is a group issue and not a healer issue. All content can easly be completed with competent tank,healer and dps all staying in their roles. If adds arnt being burned down fast enough its a dps issue. if mobs are running around beating the hell out of everyone or you its a tank issue. if people are dieing not from the above or mechanics then its a healer issue. simple as that. If you feel the need to shoulder the responsibilites of the entire group then go ahead. But its not needed. Ill tell you this though. In almost all games the healer is the core of the group. while people like to think tanks are its really just the healer. Anyone can tank with enough healing and dps can always kill something as long as it takes as long as they stay alive. Some small situations aside. Healer will always be the driving force of a group.
So if its not for you then its not for you. Try something else you might be happier.

13igTyme

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank. if not that then dps. Templar has the highest healing and can be one of the highest dps if done correctly ( magicka and stamina) and the tanking isnt that bad at all ( templar healing ulti is quite useful). That being said you cant go wrong with templar. They can literally do everything and still be in one of the top 3 builds. Maybe healing just isnt for you. Try one of the other 3 builds. But if you were to say you would toss the templar all together makes me cringe knowing it can be top in all 4 catagories. On top of all that they are the easiest to work with vs the other classes that require more skill and thought going into it. But ill say it again just for the sake of saying it. If youre healing you do not need to contribute to dps. you CAN. But you do not need to. That is a group issue and not a healer issue. All content can easly be completed with competent tank,healer and dps all staying in their roles. If adds arnt being burned down fast enough its a dps issue. if mobs are running around beating the hell out of everyone or you its a tank issue. if people are dieing not from the above or mechanics then its a healer issue. simple as that. If you feel the need to shoulder the responsibilites of the entire group then go ahead. But its not needed. Ill tell you this though. In almost all games the healer is the core of the group. while people like to think tanks are its really just the healer. Anyone can tank with enough healing and dps can always kill something as long as it takes as long as they stay alive. Some small situations aside. Healer will always be the driving force of a group.
So if its not for you then its not for you. Try something else you might be happier.

A good healer can help cover a bad tank, but people will still die and may even wipe. A good tank can help cover a bad healer much easier by taking all the damage, controlling mobs, and aim the boss. That being said either one is essential. Not to mention a bad dps can make or Break a group.

This applies to all MMO's

Flameheart

As you mentioned that your issues come from BoL spamming, my advice would be that you look for another group and not for another class. If your group demands BoL spamming, I am almost 100% sure, that the mistake may be that your group members are totally incompetent in avoiding damage, be it a tank that "forgets" to block or a DD that thinks a red circle is something like a spotlight to praise high personal dps scores or a DD that thinks standing in a group of trash - where usually maybe 50% of all adds are aggroed by the tank - and spamming AoE without permablocking is a clever idea.

In addition it's not a clever idea if the rest of the group splits up into a big triangle where it is not necessary at all and where you aren't able to get all players in your healing circle.

People just have to eat it, that reactive healing in this game is only possible to a certain degree. Although healers use Healing Springs as some sort of reactive heal by spamming it, this game is therefore a lot different than WoW for example....and man, I do love that. This game does not forgive two big mistakes, that add up for over 20k damage, within 2 seconds, because even BoL has a pretty long animation phase and is far from being "instant" as the tool tip mentions.

I have a few instances/trials and Boss encounters where my templar has BoL on its skill bar at all, all the other stuff is well doable by Healing Springs, Rapid Regeneration, Quick Siphon, Extended Ritual, Combat Prayer in different setups. BoL spamming just spoils people, nothing else.

Someone mentioned to not use Ritual...I wonder why...it's not meant as the only heal, but as a base heal for a 28m radius area which benefits from passives a lot ?

Another advice (not just for templars, for all other healers too). One and maybe the most important task as a healer besides healing the group, is to survive. Your best friend for this is Harness Magicka / Dampen Magic (I use the former one). My guess is that in PvE around 75% (if not more) of all damaging effects from trash or bosses are magic based and therefore I think it's not a bad idea to have a 12k magic damage shield up to ignore a boss effect because you have to heal NOW.

BoL makes sense in encounters where it is pretty impossible - even for a great DD - to avoid all inc damage even by using all technics that exist (moving, dodge rolling, blocking, self shielding) and/or where you have to move around alot especially as a healer and where you have to heal while running.

If you are seriously looking for another healing class I recommend NBs. Magicka NBs are just awesome. Solid rolling base heal by Funnel Health and Path and the ability to inflict severe AoE damage by Sap Essence (while simultanously healing your whole group with that) is just awesome.

If I had to decide what to choose ? NB over Templar every day. The playstyle as healer templar is already pretty "static" and with the upcoming IC Update and the need for stamina support a templar will become even more a pure heal and buff bot and will feel even more "static" concerning playstyle.

Silken_Meer

Not enough information here to tell you what you're doing wrong, or to identify the an issue.

Firstly what's your level, if you're low level and running with pug groups you need to make sure you're made leader before going in. Other wise you could be trying to heal groups a few levels above you.

Secondly, what dungeons are you trying at low levels, some are geared towards higher level veterans,

Thirdly, need to know what heals you're using and when. Let's run through a couple.

Healing Springs is awesome, however can be difficult in dungeons with pug groups, Healing Springs works best when players are together and it needs to be stacked upon itself, if your tank and dps are apart you're not going to get the full magicka return, therefore you're going to be wasting magicka using other heals as well. If your group is stacked - spam it, if your group is spread out use a couple of time on the tank, don't bother trying to heal everyone else with it.

BoL, needs to be used with structured entropy up and running. Make sure entropy is up all the time for the buff to BoL.

Inner light should be on both bars, otherwise it switches off when you switch weapons.

Channel Focus gives back magicka, I don't use it much doing trials because my magicka recovery is high, but at lower levels it was a god send.

Rapid Regeneration and Entended Ritual are useful at lower levels, they have a large range and both offer small HoT (heals over time), which takes the pressure of using BoL and running low on magicka. Again I don't use these a lot in trial, in fact Rapid Regeneration was removed from my bar a long time ago, but it's useful.

Blazing spears or the other morph, throw for your tank, sometimes dps for stamina. No need to overthrow, wait until it disappears, or is picked up and throw another, have one up near your tank at all times.

Rite of Passive and Nova at lower levels will be your ultimates. Nova on trash, Rite of Passive on bosses, or even on trash if you run out of magicka. Pop it so no one dies, whilst regaining some magicka.

In short, I can't give you a perfect loadout, my trial load is now completely different from when I started Veteran dungeons and I now use skills that I haven't mention here. I'm suggesting skills that I found useful at lower levels. I can give you a loadout and routine that may help. But it's by no means a perfect loadout and can and will be replaced when you hit trials. Some of the skills I've mentioned can also still be morphed, but I can't be bothered to look them up.

Bar one - BoL, Inner light, Blazing spears, Healing Springs, Structured Entropy - Rite of Passive.
Bar two - BoL, Inner light, Channeled Focus, Entended Ritual, Rapid Regeneration. - Nova.

At the start of boss or trash, pop Channeled Focus, Entended Ritual and Rapid Regeneration, this will get your HoT ticks going and magicka regen up. Then pop entropy. If your team is stacked use Healing Springs as your main heal, if not use BoL for burst healing. Throw your spear when required.

I normally repeated, when my Entended ritual circle disappeared. Rotation could be improved but the circle disappearing is a good guild to knowing that all buffs and HoT would have ended. Heavy attack to regen magicka when players are healthy and Healing Springs is stacked up.

As I stated, not the best rotation or loadout you can have, and you're not going to be doing much dps, but will get you through vet dungeons until your a higher level with better gear, and higher champion points.

Stannum

best 4 group healers are templars
best 12 group healers are DK

Shaiba

Hello

I'm a V14 Khajiit Templar Healer and i haven't any problem in healing vet dungeon. No problem with my magicka pool. I'm trying to do both healing and dps. I have a NB healer v2.

As you mentioned that your issues come from BoL spamming, my advice would be that you look for another group and not for another class. If your group demands BoL spamming, I am almost 100% sure, that the mistake may be that your group members are totally incompetent in avoiding damage, be it a tank that "forgets" to block or a DD that thinks a red circle is something like a spotlight to praise high personal dps scores or a DD that thinks standing in a group of trash - where usually maybe 50% of all adds are aggroed by the tank - and spamming AoE without permablocking is a clever idea.

I agree with you.

When I do vet dungeon i'm not spamming BoL. This skill is useful, ofc, but it's just an "emergency" heal. If you spamm BoL, you'll use tons of magicka in a few seconds. I'm using these skills :
- Healing Springs (always on)
- BoL : when my party members are low on life (and when my others heals can't maintain their lifes up, that doesn't happen that much)
- Extended Ritual (maybe purifying works well too) (always on)
- Combat Prayer : For the dps
- Ward Ally : I put it on my skillbar only if i see that i need it
- Repentance : When i'm in a party with stamina dd
- Blazing Spear : same as repentance
For DPS i'm using Puncturing sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Opression + my ulti (meteor and solar prison) i rarely use the healing ulti, i haven't the use of it. Structured and Inner Light always on my bars

I don't know why you're using BoL so much Maybe bad geared tanks and dd ? or your dds/tank are staying in red circles, they don't block/dodge ? or maybe your healings are low ? If you're using BoL it means that your heals over time are low and can't cover the damage done to your party. You should try not using BoL that much. When i see someone is dying cause he's staying in red circles or doing s**t, i'll save his life once, and then i'll let him die if it happens too much. If they die once they'll take care next time.

If you want to heal and dd, templar and nightblade are good classes to start with. I never done vet dungeon in pugs with my nb, always in guild and works well (and never done dsa nor vet dsa on my nb), and was fun. I find my templar fun too, but it's different. You should try both and see which one you prefer.

At the start of boss or trash, pop Channeled Focus, Entended Ritual and Rapid Regeneration, this will get your HoT ticks going and magicka regen up. Then pop entropy. If your team is stacked use Healing Springs as your main heal, if not use BoL for burst healing. Throw your spear when required.

Didn't read your post before writing mine, but that's exatly how i heal in vet dungeon with my templar.

Sorry if my english isn't that good, english isn't my native language, i hope you'll understand me

Flameheart

Silken_Meer wrote: »

At the start of boss or trash, pop Channeled Focus, Entended Ritual and Rapid Regeneration, this will get your HoT ticks going and magicka regen up. Then pop entropy. If your team is stacked use Healing Springs as your main heal, if not use BoL for burst healing. Throw your spear when required.

Totally agree.

Spamming BoL as bread and butter heal

- is not needed if things are set and done right
-drys out your magicka pool pretty fast on every level (even in purple gear on VR14, 280 CPs, 35k magicka and 1100 magicka reg)
-just spoils already bad players concerning damage avoidance to never reflect their own actions

BoL is very useful as a situational emergency heal. Be it because people have to stay scattered and you have a range problem with Healing Springs and HoTs aren't (fast) enough, be it certain boss encounters when things start to go wrong.

BoL is a great heal for trial hardmodes like Archives last boss, Hel Ra to some part, Manticor when one group is ported "down" and the rest has to gather fast at the tank spot to play the "shard game". You maybe need a few BoLs just to stop bleeding, but the main reason is, it's a priceless skill if you have to run to some spot and have to keep up / heal up people while otw.

Great example for BoL is DSA veteran last boss. At VR14 you are able to keep a whole group alive by just spamming BoL for a whole fire phase (if the fire catches you because you get your timer wrong or you just needed more time to burn down one add), but that should not be the typical strategy and it will dry out your whole magicka pool.

Anazasi

Group size is the important question. Are you raid healing or 4 man healing. Raid healing resto staff and healing springs just spam it on the groups heavy attack to regen magicka. If you are doing 4 man groups just heavy attack with resto and toss BoL or HtD. It helps a lot to stack spell damage on everything so you can increase your heals. I raid heal and 4 man heal all the time in 5 heavy 2 light using HtD. If I want to scare my group I use Ritual Rebirth that 1.7 seconds of almost death scares everyone all the time but they never die. Its Really funny to do that in VDSA on the last boss when he sucks everyone in........

Flameheart

Anazasi wrote: »

If I want to scare my group I use Ritual Rebirth that 1.7 seconds of almost death scares everyone all the time but they never die. Its Really funny to do that in VDSA on the last boss when he sucks everyone in........

This is evil :-)

...although my guess is it won't feel that much slower because of the actual skill execute time of BoL, you know the instant skill which is not instant.

...but at least we have a possibility of application for Healing Ritual. Now we just need to find one for Remembrance...

Darlgon

Flameheart wrote: »

Description of 1.6 playstyles.

Just so you know, a lot of the mechanics you mentioned are gone or nerfed a lot in 2.1.

Permablocking is pretty much gone, as any time you block and for 2 seconds after, you loose the base passive and racial stamina regen.

Dodge rolling stam cost is multiplicative. (first roll normal, second is normal + 33%, third roll is normal + 66%, etc.), ao a lot of people will be more conservative about when they do it.

So careless group members probably will be even MORE punishing on healers after the update. And even more dependent on getting shards from temps.

Otherwise pretty interesting post.

<Edited to match patch notes.>

Flameheart

Darlgon wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Description of 1.6 playstyles.

Just so you know, a lot of the mechanics you mentioned are gone or nerfed a lot in 2.1.

Permablocking is pretty much gone, as any time you block and for 2 seconds after, you loose the base passive and racial stamina regen.

Dodge rolling stam cost is multiplicative. (first roll normal, second is normal x 2, third roll is normal x 4, etc.), ao a lot of people will be more conservative about when they do it.

So careless group members probably will be even MORE punishing on healers after the update. And even more dependent on getting shards from temps.

Otherwise pretty interesting post.

I know those changes, but I am still hopefull, that you are able to adapt at least for PvE. For PvP those changes are much harsher.

Permablocking for a short time to AoE down a group of trash in PvE should still be possible, dodge rolling more than once is not really needed in many encounters (even at Manticore in the Sanctum you need to dodge roll once for the poison shards from above and then just move away for the second and third impact), moving or maybe running is mostly sufficient in PvE or either get a skill for a movement buff or shield yourself.

Tanks on the other side are another topic, I need to watch that first hand how it works out in PvE in the end to have an opinion. Nightblade Tanks for example should still be pretty independant because of their leeching skills when it comes to stamina reg. Others might need more shards. In addition purple buff food instead of blue buff food comes to my mind.

...and if I need to heal somewhat more it won't be a tragedy.

My fear is that my healer templar - which already feels very "static" when it comes to playstyle - will become even more a pure heal and buff bot and does not allow to do what all other classes do when playing as a healer...a situational hybrid playstyle where you are able to dps a tad.

Xvorg

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank.

What about a tank healer?

I have had that idea since some weeks. Although I haven't seen something like that, maybe it could work with a DK/resto staff

Something like

Burning embers (dmg dealer and health recover)
Igneous shield
mutagen/healing springs
burning talons/choking talons
GDB - Coagulated blood/ Hardened armor

Ulti -> Magma shell

Darlgon

Sorry for the derail OP, but..

Xvorg wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank.

What about a tank healer?

I have had that idea since some weeks. Although I haven't seen something like that, maybe it could work with a DK/resto staff

Something like

Burning embers (dmg dealer and health recover)
Igneous shield
mutagen/healing springs
burning talons/choking talons
GDB - Coagulated blood/ Hardened armor

Ulti -> Magma shell

I started/leveled my DK with a build like this, but.. you only are using one bar, so your list is fighting with one arm behind your back and no taunts for CC.

A lot of DK skills have been reduced in power, a LOT since then, plus my PVE guild has 2 tanks already out of 8 regular players, so I stopped using it.

From memory, and its been a bit, my bars were:

Ransack
Flame Lash (DK skill with heal/dmg)
Burning Talons
Deep Breath (Heal/stun)
Reflective Scales

Ulti Standard

Healing Springs
Mutagen
Healing Ward
GDB
Igneous Shield.

Ult (cant remember, but would now use) Replenishing Barrier

As you see, its high magicka, which, since tanks generally focus on Health to stay alive, and Sta for blocking and dodging, leads to a bit of a conflict.(And to me being a mediocre hybrid build.) Also no gap closer, which lead to me equpping Invasion instead of Deep Breath and burning more stamina. Maybe check Sypher or Deltia for builds more relevant to 2.0.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread on non-Templars and healing.......

Jumper45

13igTyme wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank. if not that then dps. Templar has the highest healing and can be one of the highest dps if done correctly ( magicka and stamina) and the tanking isnt that bad at all ( templar healing ulti is quite useful). That being said you cant go wrong with templar. They can literally do everything and still be in one of the top 3 builds. Maybe healing just isnt for you. Try one of the other 3 builds. But if you were to say you would toss the templar all together makes me cringe knowing it can be top in all 4 catagories. On top of all that they are the easiest to work with vs the other classes that require more skill and thought going into it. But ill say it again just for the sake of saying it. If youre healing you do not need to contribute to dps. you CAN. But you do not need to. That is a group issue and not a healer issue. All content can easly be completed with competent tank,healer and dps all staying in their roles. If adds arnt being burned down fast enough its a dps issue. if mobs are running around beating the hell out of everyone or you its a tank issue. if people are dieing not from the above or mechanics then its a healer issue. simple as that. If you feel the need to shoulder the responsibilites of the entire group then go ahead. But its not needed. Ill tell you this though. In almost all games the healer is the core of the group. while people like to think tanks are its really just the healer. Anyone can tank with enough healing and dps can always kill something as long as it takes as long as they stay alive. Some small situations aside. Healer will always be the driving force of a group.
So if its not for you then its not for you. Try something else you might be happier.

A good healer can help cover a bad tank, but people will still die and may even wipe. A good tank can help cover a bad healer much easier by taking all the damage, controlling mobs, and aim the boss. That being said either one is essential. Not to mention a bad dps can make or Break a group.

This applies to all MMO's

Dark Shade Caverns vet. Tank is non essential. Like i said some situations aside. Healer always will be. DPS only for mechanics tank only for mechanics. Unless the tank itself takes so little damage and can self heal. ( which ive rarely ever seen in mmos ) Other then that a good healer will always be able to carry a entire group. And no i cant agree with the sentiment that tanks can cover a group easier then a healer can. For example. Darkshade caverns again. a healer can run 3 dps through it. A tank cannot run 3 dps through that. 17 years and its always been true in MMOs. The only exception is if the tank does indeed take so little damage and can self heal ( like a paladin or something ) that a tank can carry the group. Can a good tank make it easier then a bad one? ofcourse. but thats true for anything. Even 1shot mechanics can be removed via a healer using absorb abilities ( Barrier for example). So no I dont think tanks are as Essential as a healer is. But dont get me wrong. close second lol. As for DPS. a healer and tank can cover bad dps ( assuming both are good enough) so even then dps can be carried. Though if 3/4 are bad apples i doubt you'll get far. That being said a tank can shift momentum. If healer has to heal less healer can dps. Which will cover crappy dps or just make things die faster. Does that mean every single situation can be covered in this fashion? no. You arnt going to go into a trial without a tank just because. But then again what if you went with 4-5 healers lol. You wouldnt know till you tried it. When you start to think about it. When you look at raids. What do you need more of? tanks or healers? always healers right?

usmcjdking

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

To clarify, my vet 1 Khajiit Templar is becoming an issue for me mainly because I feel I don't contribute positively in the DPS department. I struggle a little with magicka in long fights (2+ minutes), but there are absolutely zero issues on trash pulls. Boss fights that are heavy on special mechanics that require good heals and lots of DPS are the big struggle. The first big boss of veteran Fungal Grotto and the final boss of veteran Crypt of Hearts are two of the worst failures I've experienced. I also have a personal issue with indecision, which is an issue because of the numerous different ways a Templars bars can be setup.

Let me tell you a story.

I main a Redguard Templar tank. One day when I was around V8ish, I just got tired of tanking in dungeons - I wanted to switch it up a bit so I decided to do something rather stupid since I had about 18 skillpoints and I don't play ESO to be smart. I spent about 5-6k gold to get a blue V9 Willow's Path set and a V4-V5 Sanctuary set.

Dump some points into my poorly trained restoration staff and light armor. Then type V9 Healer LFG Vet pledge. Mind you, I had NO EXPERIENCE as a real healer prior to this. Clearly, I was going to ruin 3 other player's night, right?

With 16k Magicka and 715 Magicka Regen, I could keep the team alive through Elden Hollow though careful application of healing. It was ugly and there were a few wipes, but not enough to completely demoralize the team.

That was about a month ago.

Now? There are only a very select few bosses that I cannot deal with due to magicka limitations like Engine Guardian, Trials. It was such a critical success for me that the following week I put on some blue training Medium Hunding's & Ashen's Grip and typed V10 DPS LFG Vet pledge.

Jumper45

Shaiba wrote: »

Hello

I'm a V14 Khajiit Templar Healer and i haven't any problem in healing vet dungeon. No problem with my magicka pool. I'm trying to do both healing and dps. I have a NB healer v2.

As you mentioned that your issues come from BoL spamming, my advice would be that you look for another group and not for another class. If your group demands BoL spamming, I am almost 100% sure, that the mistake may be that your group members are totally incompetent in avoiding damage, be it a tank that "forgets" to block or a DD that thinks a red circle is something like a spotlight to praise high personal dps scores or a DD that thinks standing in a group of trash - where usually maybe 50% of all adds are aggroed by the tank - and spamming AoE without permablocking is a clever idea.

I agree with you.

When I do vet dungeon i'm not spamming BoL. This skill is useful, ofc, but it's just an "emergency" heal. If you spamm BoL, you'll use tons of magicka in a few seconds. I'm using these skills :
- Healing Springs (always on)
- BoL : when my party members are low on life (and when my others heals can't maintain their lifes up, that doesn't happen that much)
- Extended Ritual (maybe purifying works well too) (always on)
- Combat Prayer : For the dps
- Ward Ally : I put it on my skillbar only if i see that i need it
- Repentance : When i'm in a party with stamina dd
- Blazing Spear : same as repentance
For DPS i'm using Puncturing sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Opression + my ulti (meteor and solar prison) i rarely use the healing ulti, i haven't the use of it. Structured and Inner Light always on my bars

I don't know why you're using BoL so much Maybe bad geared tanks and dd ? or your dds/tank are staying in red circles, they don't block/dodge ? or maybe your healings are low ? If you're using BoL it means that your heals over time are low and can't cover the damage done to your party. You should try not using BoL that much. When i see someone is dying cause he's staying in red circles or doing s**t, i'll save his life once, and then i'll let him die if it happens too much. If they die once they'll take care next time.

If you want to heal and dd, templar and nightblade are good classes to start with. I never done vet dungeon in pugs with my nb, always in guild and works well (and never done dsa nor vet dsa on my nb), and was fun. I find my templar fun too, but it's different. You should try both and see which one you prefer.

At the start of boss or trash, pop Channeled Focus, Entended Ritual and Rapid Regeneration, this will get your HoT ticks going and magicka regen up. Then pop entropy. If your team is stacked use Healing Springs as your main heal, if not use BoL for burst healing. Throw your spear when required.

Didn't read your post before writing mine, but that's exatly how i heal in vet dungeon with my templar.

Sorry if my english isn't that good, english isn't my native language, i hope you'll understand me

Let it be known you can spam BOL without going OOM. Which is perfectly fine for most content till u hit fights where u need to heal more then 3 targets at once. That being said it shouldnt be questioned as to why BOL spamming is a thing. Its fast, heals for alot, Huge range and can be spammed. so why wouldnt you. If someone is running out of magicka spamming BOL they do not have enough magicka regen or dont heavy attack between casts enough. or like 99% of the time ( for some reason) everyone just eats max magicka food and not recovery. 400+ recovery on food will dictate if you can spam BOL or not. 800Regen vs 1200 regen is a huge difference. So i dont suggest telling someone they SHOULDNT lean on BOL when its perfectly fine to. Also letting people die is immoral as the healer lol. I use no other heals but BOL for Vet dungeons and Ulti if needed otherwise im using warhorn ulti. I stroll right through vet dungeons with ease. even doing city of ash or darkshade caverns ( with no tank) at vr7 on vr12 difficulty. only time someone dies is if they get 1shot which i cannot help. That being said. Perfect fine to do so and frees up alot of skill slots on your bar for entropy/inner light/harness magicka/shards and channeled focused on 1 bar. Simply because i have 1400 regen with food and use heavy attacks i never go oom using bol. Put too many heals on your bar youre just wasting slots. None of the spells have a cooldown so why slot several abilities that can all do the same job when you can slot buffs to increase healing or something else more useful. -shrug- Its not complicated.

13igTyme

Jumper45 wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank. if not that then dps. Templar has the highest healing and can be one of the highest dps if done correctly ( magicka and stamina) and the tanking isnt that bad at all ( templar healing ulti is quite useful). That being said you cant go wrong with templar. They can literally do everything and still be in one of the top 3 builds. Maybe healing just isnt for you. Try one of the other 3 builds. But if you were to say you would toss the templar all together makes me cringe knowing it can be top in all 4 catagories. On top of all that they are the easiest to work with vs the other classes that require more skill and thought going into it. But ill say it again just for the sake of saying it. If youre healing you do not need to contribute to dps. you CAN. But you do not need to. That is a group issue and not a healer issue. All content can easly be completed with competent tank,healer and dps all staying in their roles. If adds arnt being burned down fast enough its a dps issue. if mobs are running around beating the hell out of everyone or you its a tank issue. if people are dieing not from the above or mechanics then its a healer issue. simple as that. If you feel the need to shoulder the responsibilites of the entire group then go ahead. But its not needed. Ill tell you this though. In almost all games the healer is the core of the group. while people like to think tanks are its really just the healer. Anyone can tank with enough healing and dps can always kill something as long as it takes as long as they stay alive. Some small situations aside. Healer will always be the driving force of a group.
So if its not for you then its not for you. Try something else you might be happier.

A good healer can help cover a bad tank, but people will still die and may even wipe. A good tank can help cover a bad healer much easier by taking all the damage, controlling mobs, and aim the boss. That being said either one is essential. Not to mention a bad dps can make or Break a group.

This applies to all MMO's

Dark Shade Caverns vet. Tank is non essential. Like i said some situations aside. Healer always will be. DPS only for mechanics tank only for mechanics. Unless the tank itself takes so little damage and can self heal. ( which ive rarely ever seen in mmos ) Other then that a good healer will always be able to carry a entire group. And no i cant agree with the sentiment that tanks can cover a group easier then a healer can. For example. Darkshade caverns again. a healer can run 3 dps through it. A tank cannot run 3 dps through that. 17 years and its always been true in MMOs. The only exception is if the tank does indeed take so little damage and can self heal ( like a paladin or something ) that a tank can carry the group. Can a good tank make it easier then a bad one? ofcourse. but thats true for anything. Even 1shot mechanics can be removed via a healer using absorb abilities ( Barrier for example). So no I dont think tanks are as Essential as a healer is. But dont get me wrong. close second lol. As for DPS. a healer and tank can cover bad dps ( assuming both are good enough) so even then dps can be carried. Though if 3/4 are bad apples i doubt you'll get far. That being said a tank can shift momentum. If healer has to heal less healer can dps. Which will cover crappy dps or just make things die faster. Does that mean every single situation can be covered in this fashion? no. You arnt going to go into a trial without a tank just because. But then again what if you went with 4-5 healers lol. You wouldnt know till you tried it. When you start to think about it. When you look at raids. What do you need more of? tanks or healers? always healers right?

This game barely feels like an MMO so I was more referring to other MMO's where you always need a tank and some you need two. Because in those games if the tank dies everyone dies.

FYI You need more DPS than Healers so thats not really the best argument.

Jumper45

13igTyme wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Id say go tank. if not that then dps. Templar has the highest healing and can be one of the highest dps if done correctly ( magicka and stamina) and the tanking isnt that bad at all ( templar healing ulti is quite useful). That being said you cant go wrong with templar. They can literally do everything and still be in one of the top 3 builds. Maybe healing just isnt for you. Try one of the other 3 builds. But if you were to say you would toss the templar all together makes me cringe knowing it can be top in all 4 catagories. On top of all that they are the easiest to work with vs the other classes that require more skill and thought going into it. But ill say it again just for the sake of saying it. If youre healing you do not need to contribute to dps. you CAN. But you do not need to. That is a group issue and not a healer issue. All content can easly be completed with competent tank,healer and dps all staying in their roles. If adds arnt being burned down fast enough its a dps issue. if mobs are running around beating the hell out of everyone or you its a tank issue. if people are dieing not from the above or mechanics then its a healer issue. simple as that. If you feel the need to shoulder the responsibilites of the entire group then go ahead. But its not needed. Ill tell you this though. In almost all games the healer is the core of the group. while people like to think tanks are its really just the healer. Anyone can tank with enough healing and dps can always kill something as long as it takes as long as they stay alive. Some small situations aside. Healer will always be the driving force of a group.
So if its not for you then its not for you. Try something else you might be happier.

A good healer can help cover a bad tank, but people will still die and may even wipe. A good tank can help cover a bad healer much easier by taking all the damage, controlling mobs, and aim the boss. That being said either one is essential. Not to mention a bad dps can make or Break a group.

This applies to all MMO's

Dark Shade Caverns vet. Tank is non essential. Like i said some situations aside. Healer always will be. DPS only for mechanics tank only for mechanics. Unless the tank itself takes so little damage and can self heal. ( which ive rarely ever seen in mmos ) Other then that a good healer will always be able to carry a entire group. And no i cant agree with the sentiment that tanks can cover a group easier then a healer can. For example. Darkshade caverns again. a healer can run 3 dps through it. A tank cannot run 3 dps through that. 17 years and its always been true in MMOs. The only exception is if the tank does indeed take so little damage and can self heal ( like a paladin or something ) that a tank can carry the group. Can a good tank make it easier then a bad one? ofcourse. but thats true for anything. Even 1shot mechanics can be removed via a healer using absorb abilities ( Barrier for example). So no I dont think tanks are as Essential as a healer is. But dont get me wrong. close second lol. As for DPS. a healer and tank can cover bad dps ( assuming both are good enough) so even then dps can be carried. Though if 3/4 are bad apples i doubt you'll get far. That being said a tank can shift momentum. If healer has to heal less healer can dps. Which will cover crappy dps or just make things die faster. Does that mean every single situation can be covered in this fashion? no. You arnt going to go into a trial without a tank just because. But then again what if you went with 4-5 healers lol. You wouldnt know till you tried it. When you start to think about it. When you look at raids. What do you need more of? tanks or healers? always healers right?

This game barely feels like an MMO so I was more referring to other MMO's where you always need a tank and some you need two. Because in those games if the tank dies everyone dies.

It can happen. In most other games unless it was a raid ive been able to just power through a boss fight with a dead tank or without one. Like EQ,WOW,EQ2,DAOC etc etc Problem with those games is not everyone had a taunt ability thus sometimes it was just undoable unless you had some form of taunt to move a boss to a location for a mechanic. Thankfully in this game we all get a taunt lol. With combat slowing down im curious to see the turnout. its very very hard to heal with the kind of bursts you see at the moment. if it were to slow down you would have more time to react on heals making the dead tank thing even easier to deal with. Ill say this much about eso though. for a holy trinity system the combat is so fast paced you hardly have any time to react. So its not so user friendly imho. ofc im not including added mechanics that sped up a bosses fight reaction times ( Lich king wow for example with the dot that needed to be debuffed in 2 seconds or someone died) We'll see i suppose.

Schattenfluegel

MrGrimey wrote: »

Templar is the best and easiest healer, not to sound rude, but if you can't heal with a Templar, maybe healing isn't for you? I don't think it gets better with any other class. I also don't think that race is the issue, that 10% extra magic is not going to make or break a healer.

If you are on ps4 NA, you can run a dungeon with me and I can see what your problem is

And youre right, i am healing with a rothwardone templer. Raids, Vet-Dungeons - and it works. I had 28k Magicka yesterday, today, we will see it in a few hours.

F7sus4

Magicka Nightblade.

• Sap Essence alone can easily outclass Templar healing on larger mob-packs (e.g. in Trials) while doing significant damage at the same time.
• Funnel Health allows your healers to give up on off-healing completely (e.g. moderate wounds, non-bursty damage, bleeding effects) at all.
• Veil of Blades, while not as good as pre-1.6, still provides nice mitigation in a crucial moment/boss-fights.
• Apart from all of the above, you can go full-healing setup and focus Soul Siphon. With all the Ultimate generating possibilities, you can almost spam this Ultimate as often as a regular ability.