Vampires and werewolves are cursed

Asmael

...Or so we say.

Couldn't we have things that make you feel like you're really an "afflicted" in some way?

Vampires
- because where are all the "noble" vampires quietly drinking a cup of te... blood in their castle?

Oh man, do I love the feeding animation. I just love doing when I know I won't need reduced cost on my vamp skills (especially bat swarm). But... I'd love it if it was the other way around, where you'd have to feed often to have reduced ultimate cost and a high health recovery, so that it actually feels like it brings constraints.

It's also fairly irritating to have some NPCs call you "mortal" when, obviously, you're not quite alive anymore *cough *cough*. It would be just great to have people start hating on you because they recognize you as a vampire (merchants refusing to trade, guards attacking if you get too close to them if you're a stage 4 (even 3?) vampire, NPCs cowering in fear "don't get close to me you monster!"...).

Maybe some other stuff. like weaknesses while it's broad daylight (reduced resource recovery?) but buffs during the night (there are already some, Dark Stalker allows you to sneak faster, and Drain Essence will be more powerful, I don't know the exact details...).

Extra for PvP: merchants will buy from you, no matter what your current stage is.

Werewolves
- is that fur coming out of your ears?

Behold the BEAST! Yes, the thing that you're supposed to have trouble controlling. Pretty much like the first time you become a WW in Skyrim and go rampage, before awaking in the middle of nowhere wondering "what the hell just happened?".

Fighting outside while there is a full moon has a chance to force a you to morph into a WW (impossible to cancel of course). Same treatment as vampires: "Get away from me you ugly monster!", guards attacking you on sight while morphed...

Maybe even some kind of "Control over the beast" (de)buff, with multiple stages, and a risk of randomly turning into a WW. If you have fed recently as a WW, you have more control, otherwise... random morphs, behold!

Extra for PvP: No hate from NPCs.

--

If some kind of implementation of this were to happen... I'd fall in love with it. Probably.

Your thoughts / comments / ideas / random lurking around / else... below.

#edit: typos | clarification on guards attacking you as vamp

AlienSlof

This, this, so THIS! In the single player TES games, I usually mod this kind of thing in if it isn't already there. I find playing the weaknesses just as much fun as the strengths.

My main bares his teeth every time someone calls him 'mortal' - he hasn't been mortal for a very long time!

bryanhaas

I would hate to have guards attack because I am a vampire but having the perks reversed would I think be better although this is the way all other Elder Scrolls games are. I do definitely want NPC dialogue acknowledging what I am. I have Vamp and WW btw. I actually feed (Vampire) with my mara at the same time. It's kinda cool actually though wish there was an option to bite instead. Like you could choose a bite animation or the current animation.

Asmael

bryanhaas wrote: »

I would hate to have guards attack because I am a vampire

My fault here for not re-reading properly. Forgot to add that it would only apply to critical stages of vampirism (4, certainly, maybe even 3 to a lesser extent?).

#Edit: oh, typo. Again.

kalimar44

How about vamps getting hurt from being out during the daytime. It would be like a slow ticking dot. Werers in there form would be kos from any NPC in the game. These cursed infected demonic creatures need to have bad consequences for being evil. I will NEVER be any one of these.

ContraTempo

Cool idea, at least for those of us who want to roleplay and get into the story. Probably hate from pure game mechanics people.

But what did you mean by Extra for PVP? Only while in PVP areas? There is no such thing as a PVP character in ESO; we can all PVP by going into the right areas.

capnbinky

I love all of this. Challenging! Actually hard, but if you play strategically you gain great advantage!

So fun. If I go vamp I want the adrenaline rush of fear of the daylight, of humans discovering I'm undead. The NEED to feed to keep my mortal disguise.

If I go werewolf, I want to feel the beast ready to burst from me when the moon is full, and to look upon my companions and fear for their safety. To go out into the daedra-infested wilderness to protect them.

YES. SO FUN.

Asmael

As a side note, i'd like to link 2 books you can find ingame and include a few interesting facts:

NOXIPHILIC SANGUIVORIA

A WEREWOLF'S CONFESSION

Few interesting quotes:

The most important thing to remember about sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria is that, as the name implies, they are not weakened by daylight as in other strains of vampirism, but are, instead, strengthened during the nighttime hours.
[...]
By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds.

Which kind of nullifies my suggestion about debuff during daylight, some points still being valid tho...

And for WW:

"I was afraid to hunt, so I was always hungry, and the hunger turned me feral. It was in this state that I came across them. A family of innocent farmers, just like the innocent farmers that had hounded me from village after village. My vision turned red and I flew into a fury."

Quite funny how I thought out a "hunger" mechanic before actually reading this line, but it does make sense, so not that surprising...

Frozstee

Would love that, an actual lore related scope behind the two diseases, but sadly the Vampire and Werewolf mechanics are by far more important to players than the lore. Which really imo is the only reason to become a Vampire or Werewolf is just for the abilities and passives. So much so that I have one of my chars at lvl45 and people harass because he is neither Vampire or Werewolf with "Dude what about that passive buff you noob!" Non diseased players are the ones now who are looked at like they have a disease.

Some challenge to make those dark abilities seem more worthwhile would only be an improvement in my perspective. It would be far more fun for me having to slink around on my Vampire, dodging guards and the sunlight. Rather than waltzing along the beach during mid-day enjoying getting a tan.

kalimar44

Frozstee wrote: »

Would love that, an actual lore related scope behind the two diseases, but sadly the Vampire and Werewolf mechanics are by far more important to players than the lore. Which really imo is the only reason to become a Vampire or Werewolf is just for the abilities and passives. So much so that I have one of my chars at lvl45 and people harass because he is neither Vampire or Werewolf with "Dude what about that passive buff you noob!" Non diseased players are the ones now who are looked at like they have a disease.

Some challenge to make those dark abilities seem more worthwhile would only be an improvement in my perspective. It would be far more fun for me having to slink around on my Vampire, dodging guards and the sunlight. Rather than waltzing along the beach during mid-day enjoying getting a tan.

I agree completely with this. Come on vamps running around in the day just isn't right. Werers running around in town in were form with NPC ok with this is just wrong.

RinneganDovahkiin

Good idea, except the guards attacking you part. I personally don't play in Stage 4 very often, but many people play exclusively in Stage 4. It wouldn't be a bad idea if the guard system wasn't so stupid. I still fail to see why they're invincible instead of Player-levelled bosses to begin with though.

Lokryn

PC players have been asking for Vampire/Werewolf immersion changes since the game began. I've lost hope in ZoS that they will do anything about it sadly.

13igTyme

It's a hard thing to implement and balance in an MMO. What ever the next single player ES games is will have the same level of immersion were all use to.

TheShadowScout

Yes, YES, YES!!!

I would dearly love to see vampires and werewolves to be more then "just an additional skill line and some weakness to fire/poison", I want them to -feel- like the bloodsucking fiends or beasts beneath the skin they are -supposed- to be...

For Vampires...
I really would want to see some constraints on their powers that make them weaker in daylight, say, no vampire power activation at all thile the sun is up (yes, I am taking a page out of Bram Stokers novel here, the original dracula did not turn to dust under the sun like in hammer horror movies, he just lost his supernatural powers...).
I also really hope the stages would start meaning something. Like, perhaps a chance for guards to notice you are a vampire and go "kill the monster" on you and a chance for merchants to notice the same and refuse to deal with you, crying for the guard instead... say, 10% at stage 1, 20% at stage 2, 50% at stage 3 and 100% at stage 4.

And then... some vampire-specific items to balance this. A "disguise amulet" that lowers the visuals (and with it the guard attack chance) for your vampirism by 1 stage (meaning, at stage 1 you will look completely mortal - clearly Count Ravenwatch is using this the first time you meet him...) perhaps?
And some bottles of fresh blood to sip in the comfort of your own home (or keep your stages down to better pass for mortal while on a trip to town)? Could be done with specially prepared empty bottles that you can fill by feeding while at stage 1...

For Werewolves...
I'd love to see the moons start to have meaning. As in, no transformation during the in-game new moons, and involuntary transformation during the in-game full moons, during which nights you will need to kill something of sufficient size (one-pip mortal creature) and feed, or would have a debuff to all mental skills (as in spells) until next full moon, stacking more and more until you finally feed the beast... possibly with a random chance to wolf out and auto-attacking bystanders during full moon days if you are under debuff? With some alchemical potion to help, maybe?
Naturally this "involuntary transformatuion" would be a two-edged effect... great for PvP or grinding mobs during the full moon, bad for everything else since naturally all merchants should refuse to deal with a monster, all guards should attack any transformed werewolf on sight (including your own side guards in cyrodil!), and all crafting stations, lockpicking or gathering should be unavailable due to lack of fine motor skills that comes from your fingers turning into rending claws...

Of course, I expect many players who have become accustomed to "hey, free passives" in vamy and furry state might cry about it... so I don't expect something like these thoughts to ever happen, but... it'd be sooo cool...

Resipsa131

kalimar44 wrote: »

How about vamps getting hurt from being out during the daytime. It would be like a slow ticking dot. Werers in there form would be kos from any NPC in the game. These cursed infected demonic creatures need to have bad consequences for being evil. I will NEVER be any one of these.

That has never been lore in TES, they don't regen in sunlight but that's different than taking damage.

starkerealm

Frozstee wrote: »

So much so that I have one of my chars at lvl45 and people harass because he is neither Vampire or Werewolf with "Dude what about that passive buff you noob!" Non diseased players are the ones now who are looked at like they have a disease.

Fortunately the passive buff for Werewolves is going away with the IC... which is honestly a good thing. You can still get it if you have the transform ultimate equipped.

With Vampires, the regen passives are getting the same treatment, so not wanting to be dipped in kerosine is still a valid reason to not be a vampire.

BabeestorGor

Resipsa131 wrote: »

kalimar44 wrote: »

How about vamps getting hurt from being out during the daytime. It would be like a slow ticking dot. Werers in there form would be kos from any NPC in the game. These cursed infected demonic creatures need to have bad consequences for being evil. I will NEVER be any one of these.

That has never been lore in TES, they don't regen in sunlight but that's different than taking damage.

In Morrowind vampires took up to 5 points of damage per second in sunlight although with constant effect regenerate health items being enchantable that wasn't a massive penalty.

starkerealm

Resipsa131 wrote: »

kalimar44 wrote: »

How about vamps getting hurt from being out during the daytime. It would be like a slow ticking dot. Werers in there form would be kos from any NPC in the game. These cursed infected demonic creatures need to have bad consequences for being evil. I will NEVER be any one of these.

That has never been lore in TES, they don't regen in sunlight but that's different than taking damage.

Actually, the vampires in Skyrim did take damage in sunlight. It's just that, as with so many other things, the Dragonborn gets to break the rules a bit... and loses access to their innate rapid healing. There's actually some question as to if they should have been able to receive the vampire lord transformation at all. Harkon seem surprised when the Dragonborn survives, and it is apparently not something that passes far from the source, given it's rarity.

Frozstee

starkerealm wrote: »

Fortunately the passive buff for Werewolves is going away with the IC... which is honestly a good thing. You can still get it if you have the transform ultimate equipped.

With Vampires, the regen passives are getting the same treatment, so not wanting to be dipped in kerosine is still a valid reason to not be a vampire.

I agree that the update will be a good thing overall. It's not that I dislike either Vamps or WWs either, I have my one vampire. Though what I have always wanted to see as a contrast to the Vamp/WW skill line would be some sort of Advanced Hunter type of skill line. Dunno, like after fully leveling both Fighters/Mages or some other accomplishment to unlock a skill line to hunt down the evilness in the realm. I mean ... someone has to hunt down the evil things that go bump in the night, right?

RAGUNAnoOne

I would love to see this stuff, it would be like my heavily modded single player TES games (hopefully without skyrim style crashes) please consider it ZOS as being a WW is a bit...bland. it should be especially hard to control when around many innocents (think sinding) like a 1.5% chance per innocent within a certain range every 5 minutes to give you a warning saying things like "the beast hungers at the sight of helpless prey" that gives you a one minute before a forced transformation in towns or just around innocents in general.

Lokryn

Frozstee wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Fortunately the passive buff for Werewolves is going away with the IC... which is honestly a good thing. You can still get it if you have the transform ultimate equipped.

With Vampires, the regen passives are getting the same treatment, so not wanting to be dipped in kerosine is still a valid reason to not be a vampire.

I agree that the update will be a good thing overall. It's not that I dislike either Vamps or WWs either, I have my one vampire. Though what I have always wanted to see as a contrast to the Vamp/WW skill line would be some sort of Advanced Hunter type of skill line. Dunno, like after fully leveling both Fighters/Mages or some other accomplishment to unlock a skill line to hunt down the evilness in the realm. I mean ... someone has to hunt down the evil things that go bump in the night, right?

That is exactly what the Fighter's Guild is for. It would have been cool if they made the Fighter's Guild only for mortals. They would have to buff the Vamp/WW skill line to compensate though.

ChibiMechaX78

I don't really like taking damage in day light to be honest.
I have my quarrels to the balance between Vamps and WWs as is so adding these just makes my batty~

Bad Puns aside, I am being serious.

-The only thing I agree with is the constraint of making us need to feed to get to stage 4. Though that may be problematic with justice system. Say you are feed to get to stage 4, but have to wait a certain amount of time before you go back down to stage 1 so you aren't seen as a vampire in the cities so you won't get attacked. That waiting would suck for me.
-As far as the day light and our health goes I'd prefer not to take damage please. It isn't really in line with being a vampire. I don't care. I'd compromise that we make it so that during the day we have the 75% or more slower health recovery. While at night it is 50%. It's bad enough we have a constant weakness with fire or fighters guild abilities don't make me take constant damage. It may be fun for some of you, but not for everyone.
-If I must deal with the justice system it comforts me to know werewolves would be under the same treatment as there isn't very many weakness for WWs.
-I can go for more damage done at night being a vampire. I'd also want more abilities for vampires in freaking general anyways.
-I'd also would like a extra passive stat that makes Stage 4 vampirism more desirable as of now there are the weaknesses plus a 21% reduced cost of vamp abilities. I would like something that allows us to benefit being a stage 4 vamp without needing to use the abilities. I refer to what I suggested earlier More damage being done at night. Perhaps a percentage that went up from 5%>10%>15%>20% done at night. Doesnt even have to be that, just a passive increasing stat for stage 4 vampirism that benefitted us more than just reduced ability cost.
-A transformation into a small bat would be lovely. Increased movement speed, reduced detection range, an ability that used a echolocation and hearing so we can sense enemies we can't see behind walls perhaps. Or if not a small bat a morph to a large bat that's sonic abilities are so intense the screeching would stun enemies. Or a slew of abilities that are bat themed.

I could've made gone into MUUUUCH more detail with all this and more organized.

I wouldn't like the challenge that OP suggests, but IF there were additions that made it worth the trouble I wouldn't be totally against it. Which is what I am suggesting.

Tholian1

Some people want easy mode for their afflictions. I want to feel the curse and enjoy the benefits that come from it.

RAGUNAnoOne

Tholian1 wrote: »

Some people want easy mode for their afflictions. I want to feel the curse and enjoy the benefits that come from it.

Same here how can it be called a "curse" or "disease" if it is so easy to control and use all the advantages without the weaknesses mentioned in every lore section.

Flynch

I think one of the main problems ZOS has always had is implementing any sort of depth or complexity outside of combat mechanics.

I really hope they start to shake things up a bit and realise immersion isn't about how to balance racials vs vamp or WW weaknesses through number crunching.

StrykerTheElite

if you want guards to see you scum of earth and members of eso to afraid to do bossiness with you then get a bounty high enough to evoke kill on sight. Their you would have your lore since if you vamp or werewolf should have huge bounties in first place because you have at least Marcuse town once or twice.

Chrlynsch

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Some people want easy mode for their afflictions. I want to feel the curse and enjoy the benefits that come from it.

Same here how can it be called a "curse" or "disease" if it is so easy to control and use all the advantages without the weaknesses mentioned in every lore section.

I do agree that we could spice up things a bit through vamp stages, and feedings. My main has been a vampire since launch and has not fed in over a year... this is sad, as I loved playing a vampire character in all other ES titles I've played. I have no need to feed in eso... tie our regeneration passive to feeding... make it a 4 hour buff so it isn't a crazy inconvenience, but something that has to be done.

Do the same to werewolf and our devour mechanic. Yes we have to slot the ultimate in order to devour and gain our regen passive... but don't have to slot it on both bars.

As werewolves we should be attacked by gaurds in cities
and vampires rank 4 should be the same.

starkerealm

Prothwata wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Some people want easy mode for their afflictions. I want to feel the curse and enjoy the benefits that come from it.

Same here how can it be called a "curse" or "disease" if it is so easy to control and use all the advantages without the weaknesses mentioned in every lore section.

I do agree that we could spice up things a bit through vamp stages, and feedings. My main has been a vampire since launch and has not fed in over a year... this is sad, as I loved playing a vampire character in all other ES titles I've played. I have no need to feed in eso... tie our regeneration passive to feeding... make it a 4 hour buff so it isn't a crazy inconvenience, but something that has to be done.

Do the same to werewolf and our devour mechanic. Yes we have to slot the ultimate in order to devour and gain our regen passive... but don't have to slot it on both bars.

As werewolves we should be attacked by gaurds in cities
and vampires rank 4 should be the same.

I know it's not very "elder scrolls" but, I still like the idea of vampires having a persistent blood resource, that is consumed every time you use a vampiric ability (instead of simply draining Magicka). With the use of your powers actually dragging you into higher stages. So a blood starved vampire would actually have fewer resources at their disposal, but their resource use would be less efficient.

notimetocare

Asmael wrote: »

...Or so we say.

Couldn't we have things that make you feel like you're really an "afflicted" in some way?

Vampires
- because where are all the "noble" vampires quietly drinking a cup of te... blood in their castle?

Oh man, do I love the feeding animation. I just love doing when I know I won't need reduced cost on my vamp skills (especially bat swarm). But... I'd love it if it was the other way around, where you'd have to feed often to have reduced ultimate cost and a high health recovery, so that it actually feels like it brings constraints.

It's also fairly irritating to have some NPCs call you "mortal" when, obviously, you're not quite alive anymore *cough *cough*. It would be just great to have people start hating on you because they recognize you as a vampire (merchants refusing to trade, guards attacking if you get too close to them if you're a stage 4 (even 3?) vampire, NPCs cowering in fear "don't get close to me you monster!"...).

Maybe some other stuff. like weaknesses while it's broad daylight (reduced resource recovery?) but buffs during the night (there are already some, Dark Stalker allows you to sneak faster, and Drain Essence will be more powerful, I don't know the exact details...).

Extra for PvP: merchants will buy from you, no matter what your current stage is.

Werewolves
- is that fur coming out of your ears?

Behold the BEAST! Yes, the thing that you're supposed to have trouble controlling. Pretty much like the first time you become a WW in Skyrim and go rampage, before awaking in the middle of nowhere wondering "what the hell just happened?".

Fighting outside while there is a full moon has a chance to force a you to morph into a WW (impossible to cancel of course). Same treatment as vampires: "Get away from me you ugly monster!", guards attacking you on sight while morphed...

Maybe even some kind of "Control over the beast" (de)buff, with multiple stages, and a risk of randomly turning into a WW. If you have fed recently as a WW, you have more control, otherwise... random morphs, behold!

Extra for PvP: No hate from NPCs.

--

If some kind of implementation of this were to happen... I'd fall in love with it. Probably.

Your thoughts / comments / ideas / random lurking around / else... below.

#edit: typos | clarification on guards attacking you as vamp

Go back to Oblivion and Skyrim. In a MMO, even being an RPer, this stuff is not needed.

Changes can be made for the gameplay of the builds, I would love to see that. But fluff? Don't waste dev time.

Chrlynsch

@starkerealm

Interesting idea, the only issue with this is that introducing a fourth exclusive resource in an mmo could be devastating. Though in a single player ES that could be very fun.

JDar

Agree completely. It's stupid that everyone in this game is a vampire. I wonder what the correct percentage of vampires is for any given fantasy world population is? 5%? 2%? I'm pretty sure the vampire population of 2E Tamriel is close to 50%. ESO: Vampires Unlimited is what they should call it.