Lore Issue: Wha the....?! *spoilers*

asuitandtyb14_ESO

According to the lore, the original 5 companions attempted to use the amulet of kings and were betrayed by Mannimarco in 2E 579.

According to the story after, Varen Aquilarios just disappeared.

The game is set in 2E 582, three years after these events. Varen Aquilarios is now aged vastly, and is a blind moth priest. Becoming a moth priest and learning to read an elder scroll takes an incredibly long time, and it takes several readings to go blind from it.

So...something isn't quite adding up.

[Moderator Note: Thread Title Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Lenikus

...I'm assuming you skipped a few parts of dialogue there, but yea..

he didn't become a moth priest, tho', he kinda just stumbled across them, and they took pity, and alowed him to mess with elder scrolls to find a prophecy and help him fix what he f*kd up.. and the aged part was mostly because time spent being tortured in coldharbour (wich he somehow did, and not sure how he got caught, you got me there) is usually not gentle on the person.

#Edit because i forgot about the blind part > Yea he got blinded precisely because he didn't learn to read an elder scroll properly

Gelston

Lenikus wrote: »

and the aged part was mostly because time spent being tortured in coldharbour (wich he somehow did, and not sure how he got caught, you got me there) is usually not gentle on the person.

I figured that too, but then again, why didn't Sai and Lyris age also? They still look very young.

Lenikus

Gelston wrote: »

I figured that too, but then again, why didn't Sai and Lyris age also? They still look very young.

Lirys ... Lyris...Lyryz, whatever, was working, so she was being useful, hence why her body was somewhat preserved, only her mind was f*kd over, because you know, molag bal gotta be molag bal.
And the same goes for Sai, if you remember his 'torture' sessions, those were mostly just poking him with sharp flammable objects at first, and then trying to seduce him; the goal was to extract information, they wanted to break his mind, not his soul.

Trust Leni on this one, imma daedric lord expert.
(notreallybutiliektodream)

#Edit because grammar iz hard.

Zorrashi

It could be that he was lying about the whole moth priest bit. If he was in coldharbor for an extended amount of time (which I am somewhat inclined to believe given how time works in oblivion), then that could potentially explain both his age and blindness. But the real question is when exactly he went into coldharbor. Once he was in there is an exceedingly thin chance for him to encounter an elder scroll.

It could be that he read the elder scrolls before his age/blindness when he younger and before he had any proper moth priest training. Given his involvement with the Soul Burst it is possible that he fit the requirements to be able to read the elder scrolls as a side-effect of some sort despite the fact he was never taught the skills the moth priest usually have to train years for. After that his story just about runs its course; he made subtle inquires, attracted the attention of Mannimarco and then was sent to into coldharbor.

ZioGio

Because they got Michael Gambon to voice him and then thought "oh, damn, now we have to make this guy old to match Michael's voice." :-)

Gelston

ZioGio wrote: »

Because they got Michael Gambon to voice him and then thought "oh, damn, now we have to make this guy old to match Michael's voice." :-)

Haha, it wouldn't surprised me if that is the exact reason they made him old. Or perhaps when he was showing the reflection in the first quest he was old too, but he just wanted to picture himself as young.

PBpsy

It's a TES game it doesn't have to make any freaking sense. None of the TES games made any sense no matter how much the lore fanboys try to convince people they did.

Lenikus

PBpsy wrote: »

None of the TES games made any sense no matter how much the lore fanboys try to convince people they did.

but.. but... u r a fanboi too (not lore one, tho'), it says so on ur signature '-'

...also trollz, i like you. wanna be friends?

Prof_Bawbag

My Dragonborn managed to read a scroll in under an hour, with no prior knowledge. Like the guy further up said, a lot of things get shoehorned into TES games. No doubt someone will come in and give me a 5 page essay how our Dragonborn was able to read the scroll without any adverse effects, but still, it didn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things. Oh sorry, he was blinded for around a minute.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'm sure the Dragonborn read 2 scrolls. One in the main game and another in Dawnguard to get a bow.

Zorrashi

PBpsy wrote: »

It's a TES game it doesn't have to make any freaking sense. None of the TES games made any sense no matter how much the lore fanboys try to convince people they did.

TES doesn't make any sense? Sure certain aspects of of it are iffy, but reasonable conjecture is always possible given how they present them within the scope of the TES universe. It does not (and often will not) however be down to pin-point detail. That's the beauty of TES having its own 'rules'.

dodgehopper_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

My Dragonborn managed to read a scroll in under an hour, with no prior knowledge. Like the guy further up said, a lot of things get shoehorned into TES games. No doubt someone will come in and give me a 5 page essay how our Dragonborn was able to read the scroll without any adverse effects, but still, it didn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things. Oh sorry, he was blinded for around a minute.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'm sure the Dragonborn read 2 scrolls. One in the main game and another in Dawnguard to get a bow.

Well, I think Dragonborn get a pass on that sort of thing considering they're essentially the Hercules types of Nirn, sons of Akatosh and mankind and all. Dragons = Aedric, Elder Scrolls = Aedric Superknowledge. Etc etc. I found the whole thing plausible honestly, given the acceptance of all the other fantastical things going on.

Prof_Bawbag

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

My Dragonborn managed to read a scroll in under an hour, with no prior knowledge. Like the guy further up said, a lot of things get shoehorned into TES games. No doubt someone will come in and give me a 5 page essay how our Dragonborn was able to read the scroll without any adverse effects, but still, it didn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things. Oh sorry, he was blinded for around a minute.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'm sure the Dragonborn read 2 scrolls. One in the main game and another in Dawnguard to get a bow.

Well, I think Dragonborn get a pass on that sort of thing considering they're essentially the Hercules types of Nirn, sons of Akatosh and mankind and all. Dragons = Aedric, Elder Scrolls = Aedric Superknowledge. Etc etc. I found the whole thing plausible honestly, given the acceptance of all the other fantastical things going on.

Then by the same token, whenever anyone calls anything into question - Halloween pumpkin outfits, Simba mounts etc, I think it's plausible too, given the acceptance of all the other fantastical things going on.

UrQuan

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour. To me the fact that we know it takes a great deal of training for moth priests to read elder scrolls safely, and that even then they tend to go blind after a number of times reading them, made it seem incredibly likely that he went blind pretty much immediately on reading the scroll unprepared. I think the aging can be explained by the same thing, too, because we explicitly know that elder scrolls have an unusual relationship with time. Why couldn't contact with one (especially without the proper training) cause someone to either age rapidly or even grow younger?

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour.

I believe that was the explicit explanation given on one of the loading screens into the Harborage.

sadownik

Oh i have also a lore question. How someone who is repeatedly told by people of all races , daedras, supernatural beeings and some animals that choosen one doesnt have a soul can use the second passive in soul magic line?

starkerealm

sadownik wrote: »

Oh i have also a lore question. How someone who is repeatedly told by people of all races , daedras, supernatural beeings and some animals that choosen one doesnt have a soul can use the second passive in soul magic line?

Boom!

---

But, seriously, you have a soul, it's just, you know, someplace else right now.

The second passive is something you actually see in action in the Covenant campaign line. Because your soul is actually tethered in Cold Harbour, it's impossible to kill you. Soul Summons just means you can revive yourself instead of relying on someone else to do it for you.

Gelston

sadownik wrote: »

Oh i have also a lore question. How someone who is repeatedly told by people of all races , daedras, supernatural beeings and some animals that choosen one doesnt have a soul can use the second passive in soul magic line?

When you finish the main line, you do get your soul back, but before then... Eh.

sadownik

starkerealm wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Oh i have also a lore question. How someone who is repeatedly told by people of all races , daedras, supernatural beeings and some animals that choosen one doesnt have a soul can use the second passive in soul magic line?

Boom!

---

But, seriously, you have a soul, it's just, you know, someplace else right now.

The second passive is something you actually see in action in the Covenant campaign line. Because your soul is actually tethered in Cold Harbour, it's impossible to kill you. Soul Summons just means you can revive yourself instead of relying on someone else to do it for you.

Gotcha but what about my soul exploding? I mean it would be rathre silly if my soul realms away suddenly esploded right?

starkerealm

sadownik wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Oh i have also a lore question. How someone who is repeatedly told by people of all races , daedras, supernatural beeings and some animals that choosen one doesnt have a soul can use the second passive in soul magic line?

Boom!

---

But, seriously, you have a soul, it's just, you know, someplace else right now.

The second passive is something you actually see in action in the Covenant campaign line. Because your soul is actually tethered in Cold Harbour, it's impossible to kill you. Soul Summons just means you can revive yourself instead of relying on someone else to do it for you.

Gotcha but what about my soul exploding? I mean it would be rathre silly if my soul realms away suddenly esploded right?

Yeah, but your soul is silly like that.

I mean, I could guess, but there isn't really an explanation for that one in game. Unless, you know, it's not really your soul that's exploding. Which is probably for the best, because that doesn't sound like the kind of thing you walk away from.

Lettigall

Biggest question is how can soul be taken from ginger characters!? Gingers don't have soul!

UrQuan

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour.

I believe that was the explicit explanation given on one of the loading screens into the Harborage.

Really? Huh, well that would sure explain it! I should really pay more attention to those loading screens... Some of them are pretty good.

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour.

I believe that was the explicit explanation given on one of the loading screens into the Harborage.

Really? Huh, well that would sure explain it! I should really pay more attention to those loading screens... Some of them are pretty good.

I just checked my screenshot archives. Looks like I don't have a copy of the right screen to just post here, sorry. But, yeah, there are some lore tidbits scattered through the game.

UrQuan

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour.

I believe that was the explicit explanation given on one of the loading screens into the Harborage.

Really? Huh, well that would sure explain it! I should really pay more attention to those loading screens... Some of them are pretty good.

I just checked my screenshot archives. Looks like I don't have a copy of the right screen to just post here, sorry. But, yeah, there are some lore tidbits scattered through the game.

I've noticed one or two where I've stopped to say "huh, well that's interesting" but most of the time when I read one all I think is "well duh, I already knew that" which leads to me usually ignoring them (and it totally isn't fair either, because I've been playing for a long time, and I've been playing Elder Scrolls games for even longer, so most of the time when I think "well duh" it may still be an interesting tidbit to a lot of the players). I should really make an effort to read them more often.

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I always figured that the lack of proper moth priest training prior to reading the elder scroll did a number on him physically, causing his blindness and at the least beginning the process of unnaturally aging him - none of which would have been helped by his time being tormented in Coldharbour.

I believe that was the explicit explanation given on one of the loading screens into the Harborage.

Really? Huh, well that would sure explain it! I should really pay more attention to those loading screens... Some of them are pretty good.

I just checked my screenshot archives. Looks like I don't have a copy of the right screen to just post here, sorry. But, yeah, there are some lore tidbits scattered through the game.

I've noticed one or two where I've stopped to say "huh, well that's interesting" but most of the time when I read one all I think is "well duh, I already knew that" which leads to me usually ignoring them (and it totally isn't fair either, because I've been playing for a long time, and I've been playing Elder Scrolls games for even longer, so most of the time when I think "well duh" it may still be an interesting tidbit to a lot of the players). I should really make an effort to read them more often.

Yeah, if nothing else, some of them are hillarious.

dodgehopper_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

My Dragonborn managed to read a scroll in under an hour, with no prior knowledge. Like the guy further up said, a lot of things get shoehorned into TES games. No doubt someone will come in and give me a 5 page essay how our Dragonborn was able to read the scroll without any adverse effects, but still, it didn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things. Oh sorry, he was blinded for around a minute.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'm sure the Dragonborn read 2 scrolls. One in the main game and another in Dawnguard to get a bow.

Well, I think Dragonborn get a pass on that sort of thing considering they're essentially the Hercules types of Nirn, sons of Akatosh and mankind and all. Dragons = Aedric, Elder Scrolls = Aedric Superknowledge. Etc etc. I found the whole thing plausible honestly, given the acceptance of all the other fantastical things going on.

Then by the same token, whenever anyone calls anything into question - Halloween pumpkin outfits, Simba mounts etc, I think it's plausible too, given the acceptance of all the other fantastical things going on.

No, I'm pretty sure that's a horrible argument you're making. Pumpkin outfits are not the same thing as a half-god on nirn tromping about defeating immortal gods (Alduin) and other demigods (Miraak). Those same demigods being able to read an aedric relic such as the elder scrolls is not so amazing. The player character in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are NOT normal people. I don't want to give out any spoilers for those games but trust me when I say every single one of those characters have a spark of what is divine in the TES universe. My point was simply that if you can accept dragons are the children of Akatosh the father of time, and that your character is also a child of Akatosh, it is not that amazing you can read the scrolls. My point has absolutely nothing to do with pumpkinheads and the return of Simba.

I also need to point out that there have always been Senche mounts in the lore, but the games simply don't visit Elsweyr. ESO on the other hand DOES visit Elsweyr. The only thing really 'lore breaking' is the number of people riding around on cats or guars in the different territories. I think we can live with it though, considering all the player characters are essentially 'A Champion' and therefore don't follow the rules of the common folk, and by common I regular people. It can stretch belief to see a horde of Guar coming from High Rock, but it isn't going to ruin my gaming experience.

dodgehopper_ESO

Lettigall wrote: »

Biggest question is how can soul be taken from ginger characters!? Gingers don't have soul!

I don't know why people still think this is funny. It never was to be honest, and I'm not even a redhead. Newsflash: Not everything from Southpark is hilarious. Some of it is just offensive.

starkerealm

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Biggest question is how can soul be taken from ginger characters!? Gingers don't have soul!

I don't know why people still think this is funny. It never was to be honest, and I'm not even a redhead. Newsflash: Not everything from Southpark is hilarious. Some of it is just offensive.

Oh, South Park is why that "joke" made a return.

Gelston

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Biggest question is how can soul be taken from ginger characters!? Gingers don't have soul!

I don't know why people still think this is funny. It never was to be honest, and I'm not even a redhead. Newsflash: Not everything from Southpark is hilarious. Some of it is just offensive.

It was made even funnier on Tosh.0.

starkerealm

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

The player character in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are NOT normal people. I don't want to give out any spoilers for those games but trust me when I say every single one of those characters have a spark of what is divine in the TES universe.

Wait, the Dragonborn is... well, a Dragonborn. So that's their bit.

The Nerevarine is theorized to be a Dragonborn in some circles (which, I don't really find compelling, but that's a different discussion), so, what's unusual about them? Aside from being a chosen of Azura, and being the reborn incarnation of an ancient Chimer general, I mean. Well, and their ability to catalyze a magical apotheosis using spellcrafting. Yeah, nothing unusual about all of that, right?

We know the Champion is not a Dragonborn... also they're the only protagonist from an Elder Scrolls game to show up in a later title in their new role as not-Jyggalag, (often mispronounced giga-lag by ESO players dying in 2e Cyrodiil...) But, otherwise they're basically human... humer? Normalish.

Or, am I missing something?

waterfairy

PBpsy wrote: »

It's a TES game it doesn't have to make any freaking sense. None of the TES games made any sense no matter how much the lore fanboys try to convince people they did.

You can blame this madman for most of that-