New Crafting is going in the wrong direction

RinaldoGandolphi

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

It's all in line with the changing direction of the game away from the relatively equal playing field of P2P sub-based gameplay and toward B2P/F2P monetization gameplay. It's the same reason why there are so many new "grinds" consisting of layers of low RNG and accumulating large amounts of mats or currencies. We can expect this trend to continue and intensify with each update and DLC. While these systems are, individually, time-tested parts of pretty much all MMOs, the way they are being implemented in IC/2.1 comes off as a superficial form of increasing game difficulty at best and a thinly veiled attempt to engineer inconvenience in order to encourage more players into the Crown Store at worst (not to mention the latter is something ZOS said they weren't going to do back when they announced the B2P switch).

Yup, I saw this within a few days of actually looking at how the Imperial City actually works and was a major factor in my decision to pull out for now.

They added more Vet levels, they decreased the XP required to get a Vet level slightly, and slightly increased XP gains BUT they added an absurd Gear Grind to the game that is in many ways far, far worse then the old Vet Grind was....

The way they set up the IPC its just a major farming operation, you will either farm PVE mobs with a group for stones, or you will kill other players who have farmed mobs for their stones...the fact you can lose your stones sometimes to deaths by other players is not meant as incentive system, or a risk system, its meant to increase the time it takes you to get the stones you need to get the gear you want.

As time goes on, expect to find more items in the Crown Store that will "Ease" these grinds which depending on how you look at it could be really skirting the line.

FoxPT

Alcast wrote: »

It really doesnt matter, you will be farming the new dungeons anyway 1000x due to the new sets being random drops +random traits

@Alcast yeah off course it will but a MMO its made by several parts there is PVE there is PVP and in all of this there is the social aspect in the game, the roleplaying that a MMO can allow Crafting is one of the most iconic thing that exists in a game even in RPG Games it also start to having Crafting your own gear and weapons, so this should no be a topic neglected or mixed in the wrong away with other parts of the game thats my point in this.

FoxPT

Elder_III wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

^This^ Is the reason why I'm thinking of passing on IC and just going straight to the Orsinium grind. Why do the grind twice in a 2 - 3 month span.

Yep, I will get IC DLC with spare crowns I already have, but I don't think I'll bother with the grind for new gear until Orsinium.

Of course i also thing about that but dam i dont want to wait 4 or 6 months to do new stuff in the game and as a PVE player that means IC DLC its not for me?? i am paying for it.

FoxPT

Gerardopg wrote: »

Yeah crafting in eso means nothing right now, we don't have good sets to craft, we can find better sets just grinding that is very boring, actually I would love to have better crafting sets, so the motif really worth something, so you have to grind for the glass motif and the xyvkin a lot, but for what?? We cannot craft anything decent at the moment, I spent a long time working on the dwemer motif, but I only use that armor for the look every time I go to a dungeon or something I have to put another armor to play, they should look at this and improve the crafting sets so their can match the drop ones, that would be fine and would be good for them because you can spend crowns for the new motif, otherwise we don't really need more motif because there is no point in go grind for them spend crowns and everything for something you don't really use

The Crafting Gear its not so bad i see many "builds" in players with a mix of DROP Gear and Crafted Gear in matter of fact this post is all about that. If Crafting was completely no use i probably didn't bother with this unfare/unbalance number of mats to do v16 gear. But yes i agree that ZOS should consider revamp the Crafting System for something like you can craft your own Gear with the style you want and deconstruct the Gear you get from Drops and put it in the Gear your crafted.
In the other side is always the lore of the game that can make this a little difficult since getting for example the set of a Trial or the 2 pieces from the Bosses and puting it in a crafted Gear can be a little off about the lore.

So maybe a solution in between like Bound Drop Gear/Weapons cant be used in morph for crafted gear and Unbound Drop Gear/Weapons can.
For example i would love to put the stats of Martial Knowledge on my Dwemer Crafted Gear i so miss my Dwemer looks

FoxPT

Elder_III wrote: »

Not to mention they crapped on all the crafters with this update making dropped gear now be equal in armor rating to crafted gear... our small little "advantage" promised to be forever that way since the early beta days is gone. That actually made me mad (rather then just confused and irritated as some of the other changes did).

At the announcement of the game and the news about that Crafted Gear will be for the first time in a MMO Game so not much different from the Droped Gear i was WOW i so going to play this game, and i am sure the MMO community players that like the Crafting aspect of the games too.
And this post is exactly to remember ZOS to dont loose that goal not at the expense of making players doing things they probably don't want to do like PVP.

FoxPT

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

...
The way they set up the IPC its just a major farming operation, you will either farm PVE mobs with a group for stones, or you will kill other players who have farmed mobs for their stones...the fact you can lose your stones sometimes to deaths by other players is not meant as incentive system, or a risk system, its meant to increase the time it takes you to get the stones you need to get the gear you want.
...

At this moment for the new crafting items in a Crafting roleplay perspective you need to become a mass murderer to get the items you need to Craft. When i craft a piece of Gear v15/v16 i will be looking at that as "here is the souls of 1000 ESO players" not a good thing for a Crafter.

kogadrake

So new crafted VR16 gear isnt handed to you.. big deal, it takes a little work.

All the new IC content can be done in your current VR14 gear and the benefits are minor to jump from VR14 to VR15 or VR16 gear. So guess what we have like 3 months to upgrade our gear to VR16 to be ready for the next DLC, prioritize and upgrade your weps first (if crafted) as they will have the largest impact on what you do ingame. Then slowly work to upgrade each part 1 by 1, by a mix of TV stone farm, dungeon grinds and possibly purchase some materials.

The difference in having VR14 and VR16 gear is likely not worth the grind for VR16 for many people, so take it slow and don't blow a gasket over the fact that those who grind it out quickly will have a very minor advantage over you.

FoxPT

kogadrake wrote: »

So new crafted VR16 gear isnt handed to you.. big deal, it takes a little work.

All the new IC content can be done in your current VR14 gear and the benefits are minor to jump from VR14 to VR15 or VR16 gear. So guess what we have like 3 months to upgrade our gear to VR16 to be ready for the next DLC, prioritize and upgrade your weps first (if crafted) as they will have the largest impact on what you do ingame. Then slowly work to upgrade each part 1 by 1, by a mix of TV stone farm, dungeon grinds and possibly purchase some materials.

The difference in having VR14 and VR16 gear is likely not worth the grind for VR16 for many people, so take it slow and don't blow a gasket over the fact that those who grind it out quickly will have a very minor advantage over you.

@kogadrake i think you miss the point of the post.

Handed to me no i dont want that, getting players being advantage over me by having v16 gear nope don't bother me at all.

I want* that the progression in CRAFTING will be sustained by getting materials the proper way, GRINDING mats not GRINDING PLAYERS to get TelVarStones to buy mats.

To have v16 gear i dont need Crafting i dont need PVP i just need to GRIND the 2 new dungeons that will come and the Daily Pledges from the Undaunted. This post is all about Crafting Progression.

*Want it seems is a little "bad word" in this days to put in a forum so maybe something like "... as a Crafter Player i would like that ..."

Iggybot

FoxPT wrote: »

Iggybot wrote: »

It's funny how throughout most of the history in this game, people complained that there were not enough end game items to work towards or no reputation or anything to grind. Now there's a CP imbalance and too many resources required for end game gear for people to complain about.

@Iggybot not complaining here at all in the objective of my post only making a big question "What the purpose of this in crafting if not intended to be only to force players use the new content that clearly its not for everyone taste?"

Because if it is that the purpose that is wrong and since we are a few days of the official launch only trying to show ZOS that is bad move that dont gone bring the results expected.

@FoxPT yeah wasn't suggesting you were or singling anyone out, just a small bit of irony. The v16 mats drop fairly often and I don't think it's a big deal either way. At least there will be a market for mats unlike voidstone or shadowhide. Probably enough mats in the economy to make 10 sets of gear for every player currently.

Morimizo

FoxPT wrote: »

For example i would love to put the stats of Martial Knowledge on my Dwemer Crafted Gear i so miss my Dwemer looks

Gerardopg wrote: »

Yeah crafting in eso means nothing right now, we don't have good sets to craft, we can find better sets just grinding that is very boring, actually I would love to have better crafting sets, so the motif really worth something, so you have to grind for the glass motif and the xyvkin a lot, but for what?? We cannot craft anything decent at the moment, I spent a long time working on the dwemer motif, but I only use that armor for the look every time I go to a dungeon or something I have to put another armor to play, they should look at this and improve the crafting sets so their can match the drop ones, that would be fine and would be good for them because you can spend crowns for the new motif, otherwise we don't really need more motif because there is no point in go grind for them spend crowns and everything for something you don't really use

Imagine this game system:

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

2) Once a racial style is obtained (like Dwemer or Glass), any armor can be converted to this style, just like Imperial.

Wouldn't this give players not only significant flexiblity in their appearance, but increase their desire to grind for ALL racial styles as well as ALL set piece types? Top-tier crafters would be in extreme demand, and make a lot more trading income, and folks would play more areas they wouldn't have considered with the current system.

nimander99

Morimizo wrote: »

FoxPT wrote: »

For example i would love to put the stats of Martial Knowledge on my Dwemer Crafted Gear i so miss my Dwemer looks

Gerardopg wrote: »

Yeah crafting in eso means nothing right now, we don't have good sets to craft, we can find better sets just grinding that is very boring, actually I would love to have better crafting sets, so the motif really worth something, so you have to grind for the glass motif and the xyvkin a lot, but for what?? We cannot craft anything decent at the moment, I spent a long time working on the dwemer motif, but I only use that armor for the look every time I go to a dungeon or something I have to put another armor to play, they should look at this and improve the crafting sets so their can match the drop ones, that would be fine and would be good for them because you can spend crowns for the new motif, otherwise we don't really need more motif because there is no point in go grind for them spend crowns and everything for something you don't really use

Imagine this game system:

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

2) Once a racial style is obtained (like Dwemer or Glass), any armor can be converted to this style, just like Imperial.

Wouldn't this give players not only significant flexiblity in their appearance, but increase their desire to grind for ALL racial styles as well as ALL set piece types? Top-tier crafters would be in extreme demand, and make a lot more trading income, and folks would play more areas they wouldn't have considered with the current system.

Plus this mechanic already exists as I can right click any non set armor and convert it to Imperial.

FoxPT

Morimizo wrote: »

...
Imagine this game system:

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

2) Once a racial style is obtained (like Dwemer or Glass), any armor can be converted to this style, just like Imperial.

Wouldn't this give players not only significant flexiblity in their appearance, but increase their desire to grind for ALL racial styles as well as ALL set piece types? Top-tier crafters would be in extreme demand, and make a lot more trading income, and folks would play more areas they wouldn't have considered with the current system.

Yeah thats a simple way of doing and the system alredy exists for Imperial.

Tannus15

Morimizo wrote: »

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

I would love this system, even if the items you created were bind on pick up, so as not to completely devalue drops.

Add item sets to the research system and I'd be all over it like a nasty rash.

FoxPT

Tannus15 wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

I would love this system, even if the items you created were bind on pick up, so as not to completely devalue drops.

Add item sets to the research system and I'd be all over it like a nasty rash.

Yap i think all crafters and with not only crafters appreciate a option like that.

Hiero_Glyph

Having more options for crafting is always a good thing. Furthermore they need to place more emphasis on crafters that have all traits researched (the 8 trait sets are pretty bad). Perhaps giving master crafters with all traits researched for a series the +1 level advantage back on crafted gear. I mean crafters spent a ton of skills points in these skill trees, there should some advantage for that effort.

cerrudo33

I personally have been feeling more then a bit dejected by the future of crafting and look at it like "what's the point?"

One idea to at least keep crafting somewhat relevant in respect to motifs etc would be to allow crafters so spend X amount of materials, style material and convert dropped items into the style of their choice (similar to the imperial switch) and possible through the trade window (have seen in other games where a crafting "act" can be traded in the window)

I.E. I want to upg a guild mates bound armor from green to gold, he puts the item in trade window, I upg the item with tempers from my inventory, both accept and my tempers gone + their item upgd. Other items can be added in trade window as well but only 1 "active" trade slot for examples like this

VoidParticle

Morimizo wrote: »

Imagine this game system:

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

2) Once a racial style is obtained (like Dwemer or Glass), any armor can be converted to this style, just like Imperial.

Wouldn't this give players not only significant flexiblity in their appearance, but increase their desire to grind for ALL racial styles as well as ALL set piece types? Top-tier crafters would be in extreme demand, and make a lot more trading income, and folks would play more areas they wouldn't have considered with the current system.

I think this system is good except that it sounds slightly OP'd unless they bind the item to you afterward WHICH NOBODY WANTS (don't do it ZOS), so instead they should allow a style change for either a gold price at a merchant with your motif knowledge (This would actually take gold out of the economy) or have some sort of magical item either crafted (potion perhaps) that allows you to change an item's style.

Otherwise if we can freely change styles without limit what would be the point of racial motif items like nickel, copper, flint, etc besides initial crafting? They should actually be used in the process of changing styles, but... again I would like to see something to take gold out of the economy more than making the rich even more rich in guild stores.

Morimizo

michael217hillnub18_ESO wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Imagine this game system:

1) Collect all parts of a found set (not bought in guild store, but actually found by player), like Martial Knowledge, and the crafter can make this set for ANY style from there on;

2) Once a racial style is obtained (like Dwemer or Glass), any armor can be converted to this style, just like Imperial.

Wouldn't this give players not only significant flexiblity in their appearance, but increase their desire to grind for ALL racial styles as well as ALL set piece types? Top-tier crafters would be in extreme demand, and make a lot more trading income, and folks would play more areas they wouldn't have considered with the current system.

I think this system is good except that it sounds slightly OP'd unless they bind the item to you afterward WHICH NOBODY WANTS (don't do it ZOS), so instead they should allow a style change for either a gold price at a merchant with your motif knowledge (This would actually take gold out of the economy) or have some sort of magical item either crafted (potion perhaps) that allows you to change an item's style.

Otherwise if we can freely change styles without limit what would be the point of racial motif items like nickel, copper, flint, etc besides initial crafting? They should actually be used in the process of changing styles, but... again I would like to see something to take gold out of the economy more than making the rich even more rich in guild stores.

*Bind on equip is fine, because crafters can still make pieces to order, trade them to whomever, and they won't stick until worn. No more NPC merchant gold sinks please, let's keep the gold flowing between players only.

*If it isn't already the case, every time an item is converted to Imperial, it should require a nickel style material.

*if we could convert every style we have learned, it should always cost the style material at least (maybe 2 to compensate?). However, if crafting an additional potion (or something similar) to act as a catalyst for the conversion is desired, that's probably fine; as long as it is not like gathering 25 petals in a preposterously low % RNG system to make one ingredient in a 3 ingredient ( and 20 of each) mixture.

As ridiculous as it is to obtain the Glass motif (not Crown Store), and with the added RNG madness of the style material itself, it seems not OP at all to convert afterwards.

And for all the time it will take a master crafter, they should be rewarded. With gold, and, of course, a title!!

Merlin13KAGL

It's not set up to be difficult, it's set up to be tedious and time consuming.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's not set up to be difficult, it's set up to be tedious and time consuming.

^This, and it's setup to make the crown store more "convenient".

FoxPT

In the last ESO live yesterday they have that questions about the amount the mats needed for the v16 gear and its official they don't gone change it. It seems they want that players have " a comparable challenge in getting the most power gear in game".

Dam since when Craftable Gear is the most powerful gear in game if so no wanna gone farm the Dungeons and IC to get the new sets only dropped.

Bad day for Crafters.

Forestd16b14_ESO

FoxPT wrote: »

In the last ESO live yesterday they have that questions about the amount the mats needed for the v16 gear and its official they don't gone change it. It seems they want that players have " a comparable challenge in getting the most power gear in game".

Dam since when Craftable Gear is the most powerful gear in game if so no wanna gone farm the Dungeons and IC to get the new sets only dropped.

Bad day for Crafters.

Sad but true farmers for drop sets were complaining to much but again if crafted gear is so much better why aren't they using instead of drop sets ?

FoxPT

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's not set up to be difficult, it's set up to be tedious and time consuming.

^This, and it's setup to make the crown store more "convenient".

@starlizard70ub17_ESO i don't think its a question of Crown Store more "convenient" since they don't sell the mats for v16 in Crown Store i agree with @Merlin13KAGL its to be time consuming so players have loads of time grinding.

Pangnirtung

From reading this thread it is clear that this game was poorly designed with no realistic long term goals.

I still get a thrill from starting a new character in the starter zone and doing it all over again. That sense of discovery and excitement is gone when you reach the upper levels.

Please Zenimax bring back the fun.

trimsic_ESO

The new drop sets have been improved in the last PTS patch, and they had to because it's important to have real incentives when a new DLC is released. But the new crafted sets are so bland compared to the new drop sets that it gives everyone the feeling that crafting our equipment is no longer part of the future of the game, and this is a big mistake according to me.

Crafting people's gear adds a dimension to the game and contributes to the good relationship between players. It's good for the health of the game.

It would be better if new sets were only crafted sets. The fact that we need 140 pieces of some rare metal (or many more if ZOS wants to) to forge a new weapon is one step to the right direction. It gives new perspectives to the crafting system where getting one piece of equipment would then take about the same time than farming it until it drops, but with the relationships between people instead of a bland trade through the auction house.

F7sus4

Make crafting capable of upgrading the level of the items.
- Saves days/months of regrinding new gear;
- Saves economy (VR14 items "worth" 200k, while the same VR13 "worth" 2k etc. = BS);
- Give an importance-boost to crafting in general.

Morimizo

I will be interested in the backlash when this update goes live; many don't realize that entire gear setups and builds will have to change for a lot of players.

Some like to adapt, and I usually don't mind, but I feel that there is a lot more adapting to compensate for stats/skills that are diminished or outright changed than actually trying something new and/or fun.

I've asked this elsewhere, but doesn't master crafting take just as much effort and time as searching for random gear drops? Why the obvious blatant kicking around of the crafters, like they're part of the lower echelon?

tplink3r1

Finally some challenge... i hope they double it.
Do people really want to farm everything in a couple hours?

Hiero_Glyph

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Finally some challenge... i hope they double it.
Do people really want to farm everything in a couple hours?

Grinding is a challenge? That's news to me.

The entire crafting system needs to be overhauled as just increasing the numbers of mats required only makes it a time sink, not one that requires mastering a craft.

FoxPT

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Finally some challenge... i hope they double it.
Do people really want to farm everything in a couple hours?

Grinding is a challenge? That's news to me.

The entire crafting system needs to be overhauled as just increasing the numbers of mats required only makes it a time sink, not one that requires mastering a craft.

Agree 100%, witg @Hiero_Glyph since when grinding anything is a challenge?

I like challenges @tplink3r1 challenges is what a game is for. This post regarding Crafting is about mixing PVP and TelVarStones Grind with Crafting. To Craft armour/weapons in game i already have to grind mats or i have to grind Gold to buy mats (normally a real Crafter grind mats not gold for buy them), but the mats until now hare in the game with this patch you cant gather mats you have to be a top PVPer to get TelVarStones to buy mats.