Comparing Stamina Return on DK's Helping Hands to NB's Siphoning Attacks

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Now I'm not calling for any nerfs people, just trying to understand how these two compare in the 2.1 tanking scene. Things to consider when comparing the two: ability to blockcast while returning resources, ability costs, amounts of resources returned, and guaranteed vs proc chance.

With the Helping Hands passive, DK's are able to gain 5% of their stamina back by activating any Earthen Heart ability. The cheapest abilities in the Earthen Heart line come from Petrify and its morphs, with a base cost of 3166 Magicka (Igneous Shield base cost is 3654). Relatedly, the Battle Roar passive returns Stamina and Magicka when activating an Ultimate (not sure what values are).

The change to stamina regen while blocking caused NB's Siphoning Attacks ability to receive nerfs on multiple levels (from restoring % to a much smaller flat value, from a toggle to a short buff with a Magicka cost). With the new values for Siphoning Attacks, it has a base cost of 2063 Magicka for a 15 second buff where you gain 972 Stamina and Magicka per light attack and also have a 10% chance on all attacks to gain 1944 Stamina and Magicka.

So, Helping Hands provides a guaranteed stamina restore on top of blockcastable abilities, but has lower stamina return per use; it does not require monitoring or refreshing or an additional place on one's action bar. If you casted an Earthen heart ability for 15 straight seconds (duration of Siphoning Attacks), it would restore a total of 18,750 Stamina if you have a 25k pool, essentially converting your Magicka to Stamina by casting Magicka-based abilities. Siphoning Attacks promises greater returns based on a proc chance but with an upfront Magicka cost. The ability itself takes up a slot on at least 1 bar, requires refreshing (along with at least 2 other buff abilities for NBs - Mirage and something to activate Shadow Barrier passive). If Siphoning Attacks proc'd every second for 15 seconds (theoretically possible due to 1s internal cooldown, but not realistic in actual gameplay), it would restore 29,160 Stamina and Magicka. Proc'ing every 3 seconds, a more realistic but still aggressive rate, would return 9,720 Stamina and Magicka.

Has anyone tanked both DK and NB on PTS to compare the two? What are the actual, gameplay advantages and disadvantages of stamina management for these two classes and tanking?

Forestd16b14_ESO

Really still trying to say DK are the most powerful class and NB still are lacking just cause DKs can regain stamina on blocking targets.

Enough with all this BS about DKs we have been nerf to oblivion and back and ZoS is trying to fix us. Enough with all the negative stuff about DK trying to say we still need nerfed you NB are "The Class" now so there is litteraly no more reason for threads like these to pop up explaining how DKs are better to get ZoS to nerf us more. Specialy over something this silly just cause we can get a tiny 5% stamina from activating a earthen skill or spell doesn't mean "fix" us.

As for the tanking it depends on the player skill not the numbers.

actosh

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Really still trying to say DK are the most powerful class and NB still are lacking just cause DKs can regain stamina on blocking targets.

Enough with all this BS about DKs we have been nerf to oblivion and back and ZoS is trying to fix us. Enough with all the negative stuff about DK trying to say we still need nerfed you NB are "The Class" now so there is litteraly no more reason for threads like these to pop up explaining how DKs are better to get ZoS to nerf us more. Specialy over something this silly just cause we can get a tiny 5% stamina from activating a earthen skill or spell doesn't mean "fix" us.

As for the tanking it depends on the player skill not the numbers.

Sign.

I like to have then surpsie attack if u want earthen heart passive

btw siphoning procs often enough, just try it before crying.

Dracane

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Really still trying to say DK are the most powerful class and NB still are lacking just cause DKs can regain stamina on blocking targets.

Enough with all this BS about DKs we have been nerf to oblivion and back and ZoS is trying to fix us. Enough with all the negative stuff about DK trying to say we still need nerfed you NB are "The Class" now so there is litteraly no more reason for threads like these to pop up explaining how DKs are better to get ZoS to nerf us more. Specialy over something this silly just cause we can get a tiny 5% stamina from activating a earthen skill or spell doesn't mean "fix" us.

As for the tanking it depends on the player skill not the numbers.

I agree. DKs don't need any of those changes from a pvp aspect.
Neither nerfs nor big changes. I don't think, Nightblade and DK can be compared like this.
DK is meant to be a better tank class, Nightblade a DPS class.

Funny that Dragonknights have the highest dps of all classes but well

vortexman11

The Helping Hand passive balances itself out in most cases. If you have alot of Magicka to use Igneous Shield, you wont have alot of stamina and therefore that 5% isn't as much as you'd think, then, if you've got alot of stamina where the 5% would be alot, you wouldn't have much magicka to use the skills.

But at the same time, I do think they should FULLY revert Siphoning Strikes back to being a toggle, back to restoring a percentage rather than a flat amount.

actosh

Where did someone from Zos ever stated that Dk is a Tank class?!
He got passives that support this style, but u can also tanke everything in game with ALL classes.

It was just the community that tried to put all classes into certain roles and this is real stupidity.

Dracane

actosh wrote: »

Where did someone from Zos ever stated that Dk is a Tank class?!
He got passives that support this style, but u can also tanke everything in game with ALL classes.

It was just the community that tried to put all classes into certain roles and this is real stupidity.

Serious question ?
It's well known, that DK has many things that support tanks. Dks are the best tank class.
I don't need ZoS members to tell me what everyone else tells me and what I see by myself.

Neither do you.

Paulhewhewria

Please just leave my DK alone...its been though enough as it is...

actosh

Dracane wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Where did someone from Zos ever stated that Dk is a Tank class?!
He got passives that support this style, but u can also tanke everything in game with ALL classes.

It was just the community that tried to put all classes into certain roles and this is real stupidity.

Serious question ?
It's well known, that DK has many things that support tanks. Dks are the best tank class.
I don't need ZoS members to tell me what everyone else tells me and what I see by myself.

Neither do you.

Dk´s have a passive that increases Spellresistance, so does Templars.

Dk´s have 10% more Block Mitigation, sure nice tank tool, but beneficial for every role when they need to block.

Dk´s have a Armorbuff, so does Sorc, and in terms of dps the sorc´s is better, since no hit required.

Dk´s have ChainZZZ. Ok u got me there Most swesome skill ever, if it works, cause nerfed and *** up to hell since ppl complained about it in pvp. QQ

Dk´s got EH passive, well 5% stamrestore is nice if your stampool is big enough, and it still cost u magicka, so try to build for high mag reg and high stam pool at the same time.

Ultimates: We got nice ultimates, but i would trade some of em for other classes ult

Here is one thing u really dont want to hear. Sorc Tanking on Pts is so much fun and so damn awesome, u wont believe it.
Selfheal & Stamreturn while Blocking, Nice Aoe Armor Buff, Cost reduction to everything

Templars, they make also pretty good tanks if u look at the passives.

Nb´s, well since release u had the siphoning tank who NEVER worried about ressources

Still, just because a class has some decent tools to fullfill one particular role, that doesnt mean its their only one

Liek a said, community is always tryin to push classes in every game into certain roles, cause thats the way it used to be.
I´m happy if i see dk healers ( yep they exist and they can do good), Sorc Healers, Stamplars, or Healblades, Tankblades and so on

U see it the way u do, and i see it the way i want

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Really still trying to say DK are the most powerful class and NB still are lacking just cause DKs can regain stamina on blocking targets.

Enough with all this BS about DKs we have been nerf to oblivion and back and ZoS is trying to fix us. Enough with all the negative stuff about DK trying to say we still need nerfed you NB are "The Class" now so there is litteraly no more reason for threads like these to pop up explaining how DKs are better to get ZoS to nerf us more. Specialy over something this silly just cause we can get a tiny 5% stamina from activating a earthen skill or spell doesn't mean "fix" us.

As for the tanking it depends on the player skill not the numbers.

I think you missed the point of this thread. I play a NB and DK (DK isn't at endgame yet tho, but will be soon) and am trying to weigh options about respeccing, re-gearing, etc. I had been playing my Argonian NB as a tank since launch, and playing my DK as DPS and healer, but am considering switching the two since I've been hearing positive things from DK PvE tanks on PTS and still being able to manage stamina, and about Magicka NBs in PvP. This was more about getting numbers and pros/cons out there and soliciting feedback from people who have played both builds for end-game tanking.

vortexman11 wrote: »

The Helping Hand passive balances itself out in most cases. If you have alot of Magicka to use Igneous Shield, you wont have alot of stamina and therefore that 5% isn't as much as you'd think, then, if you've got alot of stamina where the 5% would be alot, you wouldn't have much magicka to use the skills.

But at the same time, I do think they should FULLY revert Siphoning Strikes back to being a toggle, back to restoring a percentage rather than a flat amount.

Thanks, this was the kind of info I was trying to find!

profundidob16_ESO

actosh wrote: »

Where did someone from Zos ever stated that Dk is a Tank class?!
He got passives that support this style, but u can also tanke everything in game with ALL classes.

It was just the community that tried to put all classes into certain roles and this is real stupidity.

When they chose the name for the class:


dragonKNIGHT
vs
nightBLADE

ZoM_Head

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Really still trying to say DK are the most powerful class and NB still are lacking just cause DKs can regain stamina on blocking targets.

Enough with all this BS about DKs we have been nerf to oblivion and back and ZoS is trying to fix us. Enough with all the negative stuff about DK trying to say we still need nerfed you NB are "The Class" now so there is litteraly no more reason for threads like these to pop up explaining how DKs are better to get ZoS to nerf us more. Specialy over something this silly just cause we can get a tiny 5% stamina from activating a earthen skill or spell doesn't mean "fix" us.

As for the tanking it depends on the player skill not the numbers.

100% true.

Personofsecrets

Great, now DK's are going to get nerfed.

x5ofspadez

Way to drudge up a post that was almost 9 months old. Thought I was actually seeing something new.