The ability to switch Class in-game.

Kuroinu

This idea has been on my mind for a while now and I was going to reply with this in someones thread. But as usual, I end up typing way too much for just a reply lol. However, I would appreciate it if people that choose to reply read the entire post before doing so. Thanks!

I'm actually a little surprised that ESO locks you into one Class, even though ESO is more flexible than other MMOs. This is my only real issue with the game. Also when you pick a Class, all you're really doing is picking a set of skill lines; there's nothing else class defining beyond this. It's for this reason that I can clearly see a way to be able to switch between Classes in-game; because of how simple the Class system is.

Since all your Class encompasses are those 3 skill lines, it makes it so simple to envision that you could use a Rededication Shrine or something similar to switch to another Classes set of skill lines. Class skill lines don't even have any attachment to what level you are. They have their own levels just like the rest of the non-class skill lines, so you would only have to level the skill lines by using the skills in that line; just like everything else.

However, you would be restricted by skill point usage. And this for me makes the idea of being able to switch Class all the more interesting. I'm almost certain that there aren't enough skill points in the game to max out all Class skill lines. If you were able to switch between Classes, you could probably only focus on one other for now. So, you would actually have to contemplate if you even wanted to be able to use another Class due to that skill point shortage, which over time would gradually increase as new zones are opened up that offer more ways to gain additional skill points.

Also, if and when they decide to add new Classes; players wouldn't feel the need to re-roll a new character as much as with previous MMOs. Sure you still would have to make a decision as to whether you wish to allocate skill points into the new Classes, but you wouldn't need to level up all over again on another character.

I hope I've made this clear enough to understand. I'm curious to know how people feel about this idea, as I can only see it benefiting the diversity in this game.

@ZOS_RichLambert

Mojmir

This might be what they're after with spellcrafting, been awhile since I saw the video.one thing I did like about ultima online was the freedom to chose skills. It allowed for some crazy builds,but still had the limitations of how many points u had to work with.in ESO it obviously would break lore for a lot of people so I don't think this would happen.

Kuroinu

Mojmir wrote: »

This might be what they're after with spellcrafting, been awhile since I saw the video.one thing I did like about ultima online was the freedom to chose skills. It allowed for some crazy builds,but still had the limitations of how many points u had to work with.in ESO it obviously would break lore for a lot of people so I don't think this would happen.

I'm not sure I see how this would break any lore. You are only switching between a set of class skills. For example, you cannot use Templar and Sorcerer abilities together, that's not what I'm suggesting here.

Mojmir

Gotcha.Its early lol.it would be cool as u suggested,in essence it could be done through a shrine like resetting attributes.

Brrrofski

I like it the was it is. It creates variety. People level their character so stick with it. If they could change, everyone would be flavour of the month all the time.

Sharmony

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

Jumper45

FF11 -Drops mic and walks away-

Kuroinu

Jumper45 wrote: »

FF11 -Drops mic and walks away-

Yeah, I played FFXI for a very long time in the past and it's the main reason I enjoy having a single character. I also had a brief encounter with FFXIV but didn't like many of that games systems, even though it offers the ability to change classes in-game.

Kuroinu

Sharmony wrote: »

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

You must be misunderstanding what I'm saying because it sounds like you're contradicting yourself, which I've highlighted in bold. Currently players do re-roll new characters and will re-roll when big changes come around and new classes are added. Re-rolling is the process of creating a new character because you want to play another class and you have to level up all over again. This is apart of the game, my suggestion is to somewhat alleviate that burden.

Rune_Relic

Brrrofski wrote: »

I like it the was it is. It creates variety. People level their character so stick with it. If they could change, everyone would be flavour of the month all the time.

This...
..here is so many people that just drop any build on a hat and swap to the latest and greatest OP Exploit Cheese build.
Although I don't object to the idea..and would have preferred a classless system...the consequences would be dire with balancing and exploits.

Most of this people have all 4 class Alts anyway now....

Sharmony

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

You must be misunderstanding what I'm saying because it sounds like you're contradicting yourself, which I've highlighted in bold. Currently players do re-roll new characters and will re-roll when big changes come around and new classes are added. Re-rolling is the process of creating a new character because you want to play another class and you have to level up all over again. This is apart of the game, my suggestion is to somewhat alleviate that burden.

I do not think you are understanding what I'm saying, you SHOULD have this 'burden'. Creating a new character is simple, quick and easy. The hardest grind V1-V14 can take maybe up to a month if you play very very casually with grinding and XP pots and even then this is a very poor estimate as most grind spots allow for 1 vet level every hour and a bit, regardless of faction. Moreover, if you want to re-roll class you will also need to re-roll race in a lot of instances, e.g. a stamina Redguard Nightblade will be useless to re-roll to a Templar healer without re-rolling the race to Breton, Dunmer or Altmer? When does re-rolling stop? It's better to just accept that you should level new characters as with any MMO if you wish to play a different class.

Apologies for using the word re-roll twice in my previous post which seemed to cause the lack of clarification.

Cagro

Mojmir wrote: »

This might be what they're after with spellcrafting, been awhile since I saw the video.one thing I did like about ultima online was the freedom to chose skills. It allowed for some crazy builds,but still had the limitations of how many points u had to work with.in ESO it obviously would break lore for a lot of people so I don't think this would happen.

I think race change break lore more than class changes and they are doing it.

Kuroinu

Sharmony wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

You must be misunderstanding what I'm saying because it sounds like you're contradicting yourself, which I've highlighted in bold. Currently players do re-roll new characters and will re-roll when big changes come around and new classes are added. Re-rolling is the process of creating a new character because you want to play another class and you have to level up all over again. This is apart of the game, my suggestion is to somewhat alleviate that burden.

I do not think you are understanding what I'm saying, you SHOULD have this 'burden'. Creating a new character is simple, quick and easy. The hardest grind V1-V14 can take maybe up to a month if you play very very casually with grinding and XP pots and even then this is a very poor estimate as most grind spots allow for 1 vet level every hour and a bit, regardless of faction. Moreover, if you want to re-roll class you will also need to re-roll race in a lot of instances, e.g. a stamina Redguard Nightblade will be useless to re-roll to a Templar healer without re-rolling the race to Breton, Dunmer or Altmer? When does re-rolling stop? It's better to just accept that you should level new characters as with any MMO if you wish to play a different class.

Apologies for using the word re-roll twice in my previous post which seemed to cause the lack of clarification.

I can tell we most likely come from different MMO backgrounds. As I've said in a previous post in this thread I've had the ability to switch classes in-game from my previous MMO experience which has ultimately lead me to making this suggestion. I understand that you are used to the system of creating multiple characters to be able to experience all classes and that it's just a preference of system type that we are in a disagreement on.

Sharmony

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

You must be misunderstanding what I'm saying because it sounds like you're contradicting yourself, which I've highlighted in bold. Currently players do re-roll new characters and will re-roll when big changes come around and new classes are added. Re-rolling is the process of creating a new character because you want to play another class and you have to level up all over again. This is apart of the game, my suggestion is to somewhat alleviate that burden.

I do not think you are understanding what I'm saying, you SHOULD have this 'burden'. Creating a new character is simple, quick and easy. The hardest grind V1-V14 can take maybe up to a month if you play very very casually with grinding and XP pots and even then this is a very poor estimate as most grind spots allow for 1 vet level every hour and a bit, regardless of faction. Moreover, if you want to re-roll class you will also need to re-roll race in a lot of instances, e.g. a stamina Redguard Nightblade will be useless to re-roll to a Templar healer without re-rolling the race to Breton, Dunmer or Altmer? When does re-rolling stop? It's better to just accept that you should level new characters as with any MMO if you wish to play a different class.

Apologies for using the word re-roll twice in my previous post which seemed to cause the lack of clarification.

I can tell we most likely come from different MMO backgrounds. As I've said in a previous post in this thread I've had the ability to switch classes in-game from my previous MMO experience which has ultimately lead me to making this suggestion. I understand that you are used to the system of creating multiple characters to be able to experience all classes and that it's just a preference of system type that we are in a disagreement on.

Agreed. I just believe you should not be given a re-roll a the flick of a wand, you should work to level a new class, otherwise, what was the point in making classes in the first place? Why bother even to create multiple characters other than for name and race. IMO undermines a lot more of the game as @Cagro suggested than what appears on the surface.

Jumper45

Sharmony wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I personally would hate to see a class re roll in the game, it is quite simple to re-roll and create a new character, I mean common, 1-50 takes 7 hours or so with XP pots at the moment

You must be misunderstanding what I'm saying because it sounds like you're contradicting yourself, which I've highlighted in bold. Currently players do re-roll new characters and will re-roll when big changes come around and new classes are added. Re-rolling is the process of creating a new character because you want to play another class and you have to level up all over again. This is apart of the game, my suggestion is to somewhat alleviate that burden.

I do not think you are understanding what I'm saying, you SHOULD have this 'burden'. Creating a new character is simple, quick and easy. The hardest grind V1-V14 can take maybe up to a month if you play very very casually with grinding and XP pots and even then this is a very poor estimate as most grind spots allow for 1 vet level every hour and a bit, regardless of faction. Moreover, if you want to re-roll class you will also need to re-roll race in a lot of instances, e.g. a stamina Redguard Nightblade will be useless to re-roll to a Templar healer without re-rolling the race to Breton, Dunmer or Altmer? When does re-rolling stop? It's better to just accept that you should level new characters as with any MMO if you wish to play a different class.

Apologies for using the word re-roll twice in my previous post which seemed to cause the lack of clarification.

I can tell we most likely come from different MMO backgrounds. As I've said in a previous post in this thread I've had the ability to switch classes in-game from my previous MMO experience which has ultimately lead me to making this suggestion. I understand that you are used to the system of creating multiple characters to be able to experience all classes and that it's just a preference of system type that we are in a disagreement on.

Agreed. I just believe you should not be given a re-roll a the flick of a wand, you should work to level a new class, otherwise, what was the point in making classes in the first place? Why bother even to create multiple characters other than for name and race. IMO undermines a lot more of the game as @Cagro suggested than what appears on the surface.

Its a seperation with combat and mechanics from experiencing the games content. AKA you shouldnt be punished for wanting to try different combat and mechanics by forcing you to go through content you already put hours upon hours into. Thats the idea behind it. Some games do it some games dont because there are pros and cons. Pros only 1 character to invest time in for achievements etc and all that jazz. Cons once everyone moves on lower lvl zones become waste lands or just pure noobs and no one to guide them. Generally thats what youre looking at there with that. I err on the side of not punishing players then having to worry about low level zones. Its honestly no different then you changing from tanking/healing/dps. its the same concept just different mechanics involved. It also adds longevity to the game not in a good way, forcing you to play double the time. triple the time. etc etc till all char slots are filled. Thats why i err on the switching class side because its up to the company to keep you entertained. Not stuck on the hamster wheel. That being said. Games like WOW or Everquest gave you different zones to level in at the same level and factions to experience. ESO does not do this because it makes you play all 3 factions and the same zones on 1 character on your way to V11 for craglorn. Thus it is very punishing in ESO vs other games that gave you more of a reason to create alts.

danno8

I really wish the game was classless from the start. Where you could choose, say, 4 skill lines to slot and be able to use any of those skills, and those 4 skill lines essentially determine the type of warrior you are. You would have the ability to change this up as you like to become something else. It feels far more like Elder Scrolls to me.

But that's just a dream. It's far too late now.

Xvorg

Guys, have you figured out that you can respec anytime you want (proven you have enough money) and that every class can be played at least in 3 different styles?

Why do you a need class change having that?

I'll say again what I said once: having nearly 20 different skill trees to work with, people only look to the first 3. Class in this game is secondary, you can build a stam sorcerer without any sorcerer active skill and be good at it.

WyldfireWyrm

No. It creates too much of a slippery slope for the developers to turn it into a pay to win game. It also only encourages FotM builds, which are currently blowing up this section of the forum (specifically nightblade). And third, it would encourage the casual players and their population would grow. Now there is nothing wrong with being a casual player, but when the player base is casual player heavy, MMO devs tend to be pressured into making content easier and less engaging (i.e. boring).

Cyrediath

No. Everyone would be nightblade last patch and everyone would change to sorcerer next patch. Class change shouldn't come to eso. Even the games have everything in their premium store (like visual changes, race changes etc) doesn't have class change. Think about that.

Winterpsy

I wanted to play Molag Bal, but the developers did not approve.

Joke aside: We have to live with some choices. It gives at least a bit of immersion.
Mechanics wise I fear ppl would simply switch their toon's class according to what's needed on the field, following new OP meta, as it was stated somewhere above.

Only way I'd see this working if we start out w/o any class and those can be picked and unlocked as you progress, doing spec quests.
But personally I like restrictions, and requirements. I felt it strange when my warrior was allowed into the mage guild to start with

Kuroinu

I understand some of the concerns in the few posts above.

Xvorg wrote: »

Guys, have you figured out that you can respec anytime you want (proven you have enough money) and that every class can be played at least in 3 different styles?

Why do you a need class change having that?

I'll say again what I said once: having nearly 20 different skill trees to work with, people only look to the first 3. Class in this game is secondary, you can build a stam sorcerer without any sorcerer active skill and be good at it.

While I agree ESO is already very diverse; but it's for this reason that I see class switching fitting well in this game, even though I've restricted it somewhat with my suggestion. And after all those advertisements pre-console release about playing as you want, it would almost seal the deal that you can play how you want.

Cyrediath wrote: »

No. Everyone would be nightblade last patch and everyone would change to sorcerer next patch. Class change shouldn't come to eso. Even the games have everything in their premium store (like visual changes, race changes etc) doesn't have class change. Think about that.

I'm not sure if you have ever experienced a MMO where you can switch class, some people aren't so fickle with what class they play. I agree that some would jump on the class they see as having the most advantage, but I definitely wouldn't say everyone would do this. And those that would "exploit" such advantages would actually be inadvertently signalling to the development team that obviously something needs to be balanced.

MrGigglypants

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

Kuroinu

MrGigglypants wrote: »

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

Like someone already pointed out in this thread, many players already have multiple characters so that they can play the other classes. Nothing is stopping them switching over to what they feel is best already. Also, you say that locking people into a class prevents rerolling, but in many cases people reroll because they want to play the other classes.

My suggestion is such that it would make it less likely that people feel the need to create another character and start over. You may still want to create multiple characters because what I suggested isn't fully flexible since there's a limited amount of skill points in the game.

Xvorg

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

Like someone already pointed out in this thread, many players already have multiple characters so that they can play the other classes. Nothing is stopping them switching over to what they feel is best already. Also, you say that locking people into a class prevents rerolling, but in many cases people reroll because they want to play the other classes.

My suggestion is such that it would make it less likely that people feel the need to create another character and start over. You may still want to create multiple characters because what I suggested isn't fully flexible since there's a limited amount of skill points in the game.

Do you want the clone wars in Cyrodil? I thought that was another game.

As somebody said above, next patch improves the magi NB. I have one and it took me a lot of hours to make him decent, against all odds. So, you want to give him the chance to other people to bypass that hard work just by let them switch class?
Is that fair?

danno8

MrGigglypants wrote: »

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

FOTM builds are a function of poor balance. That will happen regardless of classes or no classes, easy switching or expensive /difficult switching.

I mean look how quickly people are jumping to either level or gear up their old magicka NB's. Look how many Sorcerers and NB's are in Cyrodiil since 1.6.

Also, if people get stuck with some underperforming class and they don't have the time or inclination to reroll, do you honestly think they will just accept it and slog along with a mediocre experience, or just quit?

Zuuman

Just no, you can already have access to all lines except 9 (3 other classes), leave us a little bit of thougth before creating a char already...

newtinmpls

Mojmir wrote: »

This might be what they're after with spellcrafting, been awhile since I saw the video.one thing I did like about ultima online was the freedom to chose skills. It allowed for some crazy builds,but still had the limitations of how many points u had to work with.in ESO it obviously would break lore for a lot of people so I don't think this would happen.

wouldn't break lore at all.

Having locked in classes breaks lore. ES has classes as a starting point for skills and choices, not an ending point.

Kuroinu

Xvorg wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

Like someone already pointed out in this thread, many players already have multiple characters so that they can play the other classes. Nothing is stopping them switching over to what they feel is best already. Also, you say that locking people into a class prevents rerolling, but in many cases people reroll because they want to play the other classes.

My suggestion is such that it would make it less likely that people feel the need to create another character and start over. You may still want to create multiple characters because what I suggested isn't fully flexible since there's a limited amount of skill points in the game.

Do you want the clone wars in Cyrodil? I thought that was another game.

As somebody said above, next patch improves the magi NB. I have one and it took me a lot of hours to make him decent, against all odds. So, you want to give him the chance to other people to bypass that hard work just by let them switch class?
Is that fair?

Yes it is fair because everyone would have the option to do this. My goal with this idea is to offer an alternative to creating a new character and leveling up all over again, which many already do. I'm also surprised at your fear of people jumping on different builds depending on what they feel is best, this is already happening with players that have multiple characters and is not such a bad thing as you make it out to be.

Also, I'd prefer it if people that posted do not do so from such a selfish perspective. While I'm doubtful my idea will come to pass, it's a suggestion made with the intention of making the game more diverse and therefore better as a whole.

chevalierknight

Didnt read wall of text zos will never add class change it kills and i mean kills any mmo that adds it as everyone switchs to what evers more power in current game build then leads to 2 class only played 100s of problems and everyone leave

Kuroinu

chevalierknight wrote: »

Didnt read wall of text zos will never add class change it kills and i mean kills any mmo that adds it as everyone switchs to what evers more power in current game build then leads to 2 class only played 100s of problems and everyone leave

FFXIV offers the player the ability to play all classes and that game is thriving, even though I'm not a fan of it anymore. So your point is invalid and even more so for not even reading my original post.

Zuuman

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

This would only make FOTM builds even more FOTM every one would switch and create a string of metas in which new players would not be able to keep up and only lead to a dwindling player base of elitist" L2P / Reroll" players. I think locking people into a class prevents the DCUO issue of people rerolling every time a class gets tweaked leaving all others essentially worthless.

Like someone already pointed out in this thread, many players already have multiple characters so that they can play the other classes. Nothing is stopping them switching over to what they feel is best already. Also, you say that locking people into a class prevents rerolling, but in many cases people reroll because they want to play the other classes.

My suggestion is such that it would make it less likely that people feel the need to create another character and start over. You may still want to create multiple characters because what I suggested isn't fully flexible since there's a limited amount of skill points in the game.

Do you want the clone wars in Cyrodil? I thought that was another game.

As somebody said above, next patch improves the magi NB. I have one and it took me a lot of hours to make him decent, against all odds. So, you want to give him the chance to other people to bypass that hard work just by let them switch class?
Is that fair?

Yes it is fair because everyone would have the option to do this. My goal with this idea is to offer an alternative to creating a new character and leveling up all over again, which many already do. I'm also surprised at your fear of people jumping on different builds depending on what they feel is best, this is already happening with players that have multiple characters and is not such a bad thing as you make it out to be.

Also, I'd prefer it if people that posted do not do so from such a selfish perspective. While I'm doubtful my idea will come to pass, it's a suggestion made with the intention of making the game more diverse and therefore better as a whole.

It wouldnt be diverse at all if everyone have access to the allmighty cookie cutter build..... You dont make sense on that statement im sorry..