Macros: legit fair play or cheating?

melloni_aleb16_ESO

deleted to avoid unpleasant discussions

+1

Xael

@TheBull

The pervasive ignorance and fear-mongering in these threads is staggering.

SirAndy

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I can't prove or disprove the use of maros in pvp, but I remain highly skeptical of their widespread use. ESO pvp is very dynamic; the buttons you press depend on the animations you see from your opponent, and there are many combinations of buttons. Macros are not dynamic and I think that any macro more complicated that 'light attack>skill" would gimp you in pvp. Maybe a "light attack>skill" macro would be all you need to give you an edge, idk. I'm not that worried about it anyway.

That's not how people use macros though ...

Anyone claiming macros don't work in PvP either doesn't understand how and when they are used or they're trying to generate doubt about macro use because they're using them themselves.

I can assure you they exist and do work ...

rfennell_ESO

Lettigall wrote: »

Addon macros are no no but mouse/keyboard macros are good to use!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200723/request-for-clarification-usage-of-addons-that-perform-multiple-actions-out-of-combat/p1

"Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service."

The only thing saying otherwise is something copy and pasted that you have no idea is actually from zos.

The issue with macros is that (regardless of the ridiculous posturing of macro users) they ARE automating and performing multiple actions with a single keystroke.

If you set up every single key with a macro that does light attack->ability, that's obviously performing muliple actions with a single keystroke. So is light attack->ability->bash.

All ZOS has to do is look at a sample of any macro users attacks and note the delay between things and how it never changes to find proof of automation.

The problem is that while ZOS claims that all reports will be investigated, their investigation is either useless or non-existent.

Lastly, if you actually think that macros will not speed up attacks... all you need to do is play around with a macro for wrecking blow that cancels it with bash and then see how many you can get off in 20 seconds versus doing it manually. Don't take my word for it, try it yourself. I'll give you advance warning that the answer will be more of them and the addition of a light attack and a bash/block on top of the more.

P.S. The argument that macros couldn't or wouldn't be reliably used in pvp is nonsensical. There is nothing to prevent their usage at all. The only thing that lag would create is the loss of light attack. Now a chain of attacks all setup through a macro would be problematic at times... but why would anyone really want to even bother when they can set up every one of the 6 ability keys with a separate macro?

P.S.S. the posting of a supposed email from ZOS CS is about as authentic, from a position of proof, as Bli_ney's proof that he is actually a great player that should submit his awesome "build".

Lettigall

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Addon macros are no no but mouse/keyboard macros are good to use!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200723/request-for-clarification-usage-of-addons-that-perform-multiple-actions-out-of-combat/p1

"Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service."

The only thing saying otherwise is something copy and pasted that you have no idea is actually from zos.

The issue with macros is that (regardless of the ridiculous posturing of macro users) they ARE automating and performing multiple actions with a single keystroke.

If you set up every single key with a macro that does light attack->ability, that's obviously performing muliple actions with a single keystroke. So is light attack->ability->bash.

All ZOS has to do is look at a sample of any macro users attacks and note the delay between things and how it never changes to find proof of automation.

The problem is that while ZOS claims that all reports will be investigated, their investigation is either useless or non-existent.

Lastly, if you actually think that macros will not speed up attacks... all you need to do is play around with a macro for wrecking blow that cancels it with bash and then see how many you can get off in 20 seconds versus doing it manually. Don't take my word for it, try it yourself. I'll give you advance warning that the answer will be more of them and the addition of a light attack and a bash/block on top of the more.

P.S. The argument that macros couldn't or wouldn't be reliably used in pvp is nonsensical. There is nothing to prevent their usage at all. The only thing that lag would create is the loss of light attack. Now a chain of attacks all setup through a macro would be problematic at times... but why would anyone really want to even bother when they can set up every one of the 6 ability keys with a separate macro?

P.S.S. the posting of a supposed email from ZOS CS is about as authentic, from a position of proof, as Bli_ney's proof that he is actually a great player that should submit his awesome "build".

Ask yourself support about mouse/keyboard macros or you can come and visit me(bring beer) and I'll show you email from ZOS

It's always amuses me how macro users try to convince others that they don't give you advantage. I made simple macro and with 1 click, almost at same time, fired Venom arrow+ light attack. Yes, lag sometimes stole light attack, but still very effective.

Emma_Overload

Sharee wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

People tend to take the path of least resistance. And cheating in online games in general is really widespread.

When Joe Average sees that instead of mastering the timing of landing wrecking blow, surprise attack, light attack and soul harvest at exactly the same time, he can just program a macro to do it for him at the push of a button regardless of how distracted he might be in the hectic PvP combat, why would he not do it?

If you see, out of all the nightblades you face every day, one that seems to get the sequence right with robotic perfection, every single time he attacks you, no matter what circumstances or how pressured he is, chances are, you just met Joe Average.

Yes, there is a possibility that guy was just exceptionally good. But when you see more 'exceptionally good' guys that you never heard of before popping up like mushrooms every day? See first sentence.

And he has 1000 cps too! Come on. That's ridiculous to say. On top of that the sequence you used isn't even remotely optimal. There's not even an animation cancel/weave in there. Forgive me but you are making my point about a lack of understanding.

The fact that the sequence combines multiple attack categories that all have their own cooldowns(and thus can hit simultaneously) is what makes it optimal. It allows you to score 4 hits on an enemy within 0.3 seconds.

1, WB triggers a 1.3s ability cooldown on cast, but deal damage after 1.0 of that cooldown already passed.
2, SA can be used 0.3 sec after WB deals damage (at the point the WB CD expired)
3, SA triggers another 1.3s ability cooldown, but basic attacks are on their own CD, so you can LA right after the SA.
4, LA triggers basic attack cooldown, but you can use soul harvest instantly anyway, because ultimates respect neither ability CD nor basic attack CD.

result: 4 hits within 0.3 second timeframe. Of course hitting the keys perfectly for that to happen is a challenge in the heat of combat - unless you use a macro to do it for you, that is.

I'm pretty sure Steps 1 and 2 would only work on the first rotation. It's not like you could do a repeating pattern that allowed you to hit with two abilities every second. BTW, I think the ability cooldown was reduced from 1.3 seconds to around 1.1 seconds with Update 1.6. You don't need a macro to test this out, either... just use a keyboard or mouse that auto-repeats when you hold down the button, then look at the damage stats from the FTC add-on. You'll probably find that something like Wrecking Blow hits 8 times in 8.8 seconds.

Xael

SirAndy wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I can't prove or disprove the use of maros in pvp, but I remain highly skeptical of their widespread use. ESO pvp is very dynamic; the buttons you press depend on the animations you see from your opponent, and there are many combinations of buttons. Macros are not dynamic and I think that any macro more complicated that 'light attack>skill" would gimp you in pvp. Maybe a "light attack>skill" macro would be all you need to give you an edge, idk. I'm not that worried about it anyway.

That's not how people use macros though ...

Anyone claiming macros don't work in PvP either doesn't understand how and when they are used or they're trying to generate doubt about macro use because they're using them themselves.

I can assure you they exist and do work ...

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

Every time you use an ability there is a gcd of .5 seconds. Meaning you have to wait .5 seconds for the next ability to go off. There is also something players do called attack weaving (or animation cancelling). For example, light attack/ability or light/ability/bash. You cannot though do ability/ability as the .5 second gcd will cause delay. A great example of this is doing Reflective Light (instant attack) followed by Puncturing Sweep (instant). If you press both buttons back to back, the jabs will wait until the bolt has traveled or the gcd up before activating. That said, even a macro user will have to implement the gcd into the macro. There is no distinct advantage here. More importantly combat is dynamic. This is not PvE where everything follows script and can be easily predicted. That said, macroers are at a distinct disadvantage and subject to being jammed up.

I am claiming you are full of crap. You can go back and read what I wrote.
Implying I am trying to generate doubt because I use them is dishonest.
Anyone who watches my videos or twitch streams will confirm I am not doing this. The same goes for other notorious players who "one shot" or "insta gib" in Cyrodiil.

All of the whining about macros is based around getting beat down in PvP. That said, this is based on damage abilities and the notorious boogeyman known as "instagib" or "one shot" macro. I know for a fact you don't understand game mechanics and looking for something to blame.

Again, you are being held accountable for your accusations. It's time to put up or shut up.

Dru1076 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I see a lot of people talking about using macros to gain an edge in PVP. I was wondering what everyone thought about this. I don't want to do it, tbh I consider it blatant cheating ... But I don't want to disadvantage myself by not using them if they have become an accepted evil of the game. So the question I have is what is Zos's stance on the use of macros? A cheat or fair play? What do you guys think?

People are killing people because they are better geared, more skilled than their targets. It has nothing to do with macros. Ever since the major influx of new players people have been crying about this or that alleged boogeyman. Stuff like this is getting out of control. I can burst someone down, particularly a new player in 2-3 seconds. I don't use macros. I am just geared properly and know how to play.

Um... Not crying or whining here, pal.. You quoted me, but you don't seem to have read what quoted. I was simply asking a question, not trying to get anything nerfed. Honestly... Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to defend something you claim you don't use. Don't be such an...overreacting dude.

From what I have seen of people openly discussing the use of macros I simply wondered how others in the community looked upon them considering that so many admit using them. Glad to see so many share my low opinion of them, and I don't think I will be using them. But sadly, from what I can tell, this is one of those "Its only illegal if you get caught" type things.

I quoted you because I was talking to you. It's how people respond on forums to let people know they are addressing them.
Did I say or imply you are crying? I said "the major influx of new players people have been crying..." Is that you? Are you the "the major influx of new players"? Use your brain here and stop trying to be defensive for the sake of victimhood.
Now you imply (because I point out the obvious) that I am using them. This is libel. You then tell me I'm overreacting, yet in the top 5 threads of this forum section 2 are about macro users in PvP.

Over the past couple months newbies have came out of the woodwork like an infestation with claims of all kinds simply because they are ignorant about combat mechanics and their relation to PvP. But don't mind me, continue creating mythos about legendary boogeymen ruining the PvP in this game.

Ezareth

I've played with the best players out there from many factions.

Never once have I heard any of them mention using a macro and I've grouped and played with some players who have no problem using any exploit they come across.

I don't think this is the issue you're looking for.

SirAndy

Xael wrote: »

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

See my response in the other thread. I have to seriously question why you are trying so hard to discount the existence of macros.

Xael

SirAndy wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

See my response in the other thread. I have to seriously question why you are trying so hard to discount the existence of macros.

As I said in the other thread:
Again, show me proof of a "one shot" macro and its application. Where is the proof? You said it's all over the game, just give us 1... just 1 instance of it being used and exactly what they are doing.

You are saying macroing is breaking pvp, show us 1 example and what they are doing, just 1... otherwise like everything else, this is more hot air.

SirAndy

Xael wrote: »

As I said in the other thread:
Again, show me proof of a "one shot" macro and its application. Where is the proof? You said it's all over the game, just give us 1... just 1 instance of it being used and exactly what they are doing.

You are saying macroing is breaking pvp, show us 1 example and what they are doing, just 1... otherwise like everything else, this is more hot air.

Listen, there are really only two explanations for your posts:

1. You sincerely don't know how to make a macro work for you in ESO and thus you assume it has to be impossible.
2. You know how to make a macro work for you in ESO and you're trying to hide the fact by exclaiming that there is no such thing.

vamp_emily

I don't use maro's, but I have the capabilities if I decide to use them.

You have players running around at non vet pvp with champion points, is that really fair?
You have 20 people jumping on you at one time, is that fair?
You get ganked everytime you hop on your horse, is that fair?

I say Yay! to maro's.

Gilvoth

lets look at what the developer said about this subject ...

@ZOS_MollyH said,

*QUOTE:

"Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service. All examples you provided do fall under automation, and as such are not allowed via our Terms of Service."

END QUOTE:

Source:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200723/request-for-clarification-usage-of-addons-that-perform-multiple-actions-out-of-combat/p1


prety clear that it IS posible and very easy to make a macro perform multiple actions with a single keystroke and not only do it well but also within and even under 1 second.
THUS allowing you to see an instant Death from what you saw and heard as one hit.

Emma_Overload

SirAndy wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

See my response in the other thread. I have to seriously question why you are trying so hard to discount the existence of macros.

He's not denying the existence of macros, though... nobody is. He's just denying that PvPers are using macros to one-shot people in 1 second with like 6 attacks or whatever.

I'm sure some people use macros all the time in both PvP and PvE. One of the players who got scolded on these forums by a ZOS mod was using macros to automate his emotes. Yes his friggin' EMOTES, LOL. I don't doubt that some players use them for light attack weaving, too. Having said that, because of the way cooldowns work in this game, I suspect MOST of the macro use is simply for convenience and quality-of-life issues, like inventory management. I can't imagine how a macro could improve the DPS of a reasonably (or even barely) competent player. Because of ESO's command queuing window of about half a second, you don't have to have "twitch" reflexes to execute abilities as fast as the cooldowns will allow.

I don't know what anyone's motives are for arguing with you and others on this issue, but I can tell you MINE: I'm scared that ZOS will listen to all your complaining and decide to deal with this imaginary Macro Problem by introducing MUCH longer cooldowns on EVERYTHING. Then we all might as well go play some crappy old MMO like LOTRO or WoW and watch cooldown timers all day. I'd rather play D&D with pencil and paper, to be honest.

vamp_emily

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

lets look at what the developer said about this subject ...

@ZOS_MollyH said,

*QUOTE:

"Macros and addons that allow players to automate and perform multiple actions with a single keystroke is a violation of our Terms of Service. All examples you provided do fall under automation, and as such are not allowed via our Terms of Service."

END QUOTE:

Source:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200723/request-for-clarification-usage-of-addons-that-perform-multiple-actions-out-of-combat/p1


prety clear that it IS posible and very easy to make a macro perform multiple actions with a single keystroke and not only do it well but also within and even under 1 second.
THUS allowing you to see an instant Death from what you saw and heard as one hit.

nods. I wonder how the developers know if someone uses a macro. I don't think they would even monitor it.

I think I read someone saying that macro's were the reason they left pc for console. I remember my brother using a controller on a console that had programmable buttons to automate combo's. If I am not mistaken macro's are on consoles to.

Dru1076

Xael wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I can't prove or disprove the use of maros in pvp, but I remain highly skeptical of their widespread use. ESO pvp is very dynamic; the buttons you press depend on the animations you see from your opponent, and there are many combinations of buttons. Macros are not dynamic and I think that any macro more complicated that 'light attack>skill" would gimp you in pvp. Maybe a "light attack>skill" macro would be all you need to give you an edge, idk. I'm not that worried about it anyway.

That's not how people use macros though ...

Anyone claiming macros don't work in PvP either doesn't understand how and when they are used or they're trying to generate doubt about macro use because they're using them themselves.

I can assure you they exist and do work ...

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

Every time you use an ability there is a gcd of .5 seconds. Meaning you have to wait .5 seconds for the next ability to go off. There is also something players do called attack weaving (or animation cancelling). For example, light attack/ability or light/ability/bash. You cannot though do ability/ability as the .5 second gcd will cause delay. A great example of this is doing Reflective Light (instant attack) followed by Puncturing Sweep (instant). If you press both buttons back to back, the jabs will wait until the bolt has traveled or the gcd up before activating. That said, even a macro user will have to implement the gcd into the macro. There is no distinct advantage here. More importantly combat is dynamic. This is not PvE where everything follows script and can be easily predicted. That said, macroers are at a distinct disadvantage and subject to being jammed up.

I am claiming you are full of crap. You can go back and read what I wrote.
Implying I am trying to generate doubt because I use them is dishonest.
Anyone who watches my videos or twitch streams will confirm I am not doing this. The same goes for other notorious players who "one shot" or "insta gib" in Cyrodiil.

All of the whining about macros is based around getting beat down in PvP. That said, this is based on damage abilities and the notorious boogeyman known as "instagib" or "one shot" macro. I know for a fact you don't understand game mechanics and looking for something to blame.

Again, you are being held accountable for your accusations. It's time to put up or shut up.

Dru1076 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I see a lot of people talking about using macros to gain an edge in PVP. I was wondering what everyone thought about this. I don't want to do it, tbh I consider it blatant cheating ... But I don't want to disadvantage myself by not using them if they have become an accepted evil of the game. So the question I have is what is Zos's stance on the use of macros? A cheat or fair play? What do you guys think?

People are killing people because they are better geared, more skilled than their targets. It has nothing to do with macros. Ever since the major influx of new players people have been crying about this or that alleged boogeyman. Stuff like this is getting out of control. I can burst someone down, particularly a new player in 2-3 seconds. I don't use macros. I am just geared properly and know how to play.

Um... Not crying or whining here, pal.. You quoted me, but you don't seem to have read what quoted. I was simply asking a question, not trying to get anything nerfed. Honestly... Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to defend something you claim you don't use. Don't be such an...overreacting dude.

From what I have seen of people openly discussing the use of macros I simply wondered how others in the community looked upon them considering that so many admit using them. Glad to see so many share my low opinion of them, and I don't think I will be using them. But sadly, from what I can tell, this is one of those "Its only illegal if you get caught" type things.

I quoted you because I was talking to you. It's how people respond on forums to let people know they are addressing them.
Did I say or imply you are crying? I said "the major influx of new players people have been crying..." Is that you? Are you the "the major influx of new players"? Use your brain here and stop trying to be defensive for the sake of victimhood.
Now you imply (because I point out the obvious) that I am using them. This is libel. You then tell me I'm overreacting, yet in the top 5 threads of this forum section 2 are about macro users in PvP.

Over the past couple months newbies have came out of the woodwork like an infestation with claims of all kinds simply because they are ignorant about combat mechanics and their relation to PvP. But don't mind me, continue creating mythos about legendary boogeymen ruining the PvP in this game.

No offence....but I think you're being very silly, not to mention unnecessarily rude and aggressive. This thread isn't about a nerf. You accuse me of all kinds of things, so if I say it seems like your defending something that's because of your curious hostility. Ignorance and fear mongering, eh? Just calm down a little there, buddy. Try decaf.

Xael

Dru1076 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I can't prove or disprove the use of maros in pvp, but I remain highly skeptical of their widespread use. ESO pvp is very dynamic; the buttons you press depend on the animations you see from your opponent, and there are many combinations of buttons. Macros are not dynamic and I think that any macro more complicated that 'light attack>skill" would gimp you in pvp. Maybe a "light attack>skill" macro would be all you need to give you an edge, idk. I'm not that worried about it anyway.

That's not how people use macros though ...

Anyone claiming macros don't work in PvP either doesn't understand how and when they are used or they're trying to generate doubt about macro use because they're using them themselves.

I can assure you they exist and do work ...

There are no "instagib macros" everywhere on PC. You are either telling a lie or shooting your mouth off ignorantly. Again, give one person doing this with proof. Show us exactly what he is doing to get an unfair advantage over other players. Show JUST ONE example and show us what he is doing. If it is so bad and all over the game, surely proof of one single person and what they do can be provided.

Every time you use an ability there is a gcd of .5 seconds. Meaning you have to wait .5 seconds for the next ability to go off. There is also something players do called attack weaving (or animation cancelling). For example, light attack/ability or light/ability/bash. You cannot though do ability/ability as the .5 second gcd will cause delay. A great example of this is doing Reflective Light (instant attack) followed by Puncturing Sweep (instant). If you press both buttons back to back, the jabs will wait until the bolt has traveled or the gcd up before activating. That said, even a macro user will have to implement the gcd into the macro. There is no distinct advantage here. More importantly combat is dynamic. This is not PvE where everything follows script and can be easily predicted. That said, macroers are at a distinct disadvantage and subject to being jammed up.

I am claiming you are full of crap. You can go back and read what I wrote.
Implying I am trying to generate doubt because I use them is dishonest.
Anyone who watches my videos or twitch streams will confirm I am not doing this. The same goes for other notorious players who "one shot" or "insta gib" in Cyrodiil.

All of the whining about macros is based around getting beat down in PvP. That said, this is based on damage abilities and the notorious boogeyman known as "instagib" or "one shot" macro. I know for a fact you don't understand game mechanics and looking for something to blame.

Again, you are being held accountable for your accusations. It's time to put up or shut up.

Dru1076 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I see a lot of people talking about using macros to gain an edge in PVP. I was wondering what everyone thought about this. I don't want to do it, tbh I consider it blatant cheating ... But I don't want to disadvantage myself by not using them if they have become an accepted evil of the game. So the question I have is what is Zos's stance on the use of macros? A cheat or fair play? What do you guys think?

People are killing people because they are better geared, more skilled than their targets. It has nothing to do with macros. Ever since the major influx of new players people have been crying about this or that alleged boogeyman. Stuff like this is getting out of control. I can burst someone down, particularly a new player in 2-3 seconds. I don't use macros. I am just geared properly and know how to play.

Um... Not crying or whining here, pal.. You quoted me, but you don't seem to have read what quoted. I was simply asking a question, not trying to get anything nerfed. Honestly... Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to defend something you claim you don't use. Don't be such an...overreacting dude.

From what I have seen of people openly discussing the use of macros I simply wondered how others in the community looked upon them considering that so many admit using them. Glad to see so many share my low opinion of them, and I don't think I will be using them. But sadly, from what I can tell, this is one of those "Its only illegal if you get caught" type things.

I quoted you because I was talking to you. It's how people respond on forums to let people know they are addressing them.
Did I say or imply you are crying? I said "the major influx of new players people have been crying..." Is that you? Are you the "the major influx of new players"? Use your brain here and stop trying to be defensive for the sake of victimhood.
Now you imply (because I point out the obvious) that I am using them. This is libel. You then tell me I'm overreacting, yet in the top 5 threads of this forum section 2 are about macro users in PvP.

Over the past couple months newbies have came out of the woodwork like an infestation with claims of all kinds simply because they are ignorant about combat mechanics and their relation to PvP. But don't mind me, continue creating mythos about legendary boogeymen ruining the PvP in this game.

No offence....but I think you're being very silly, not to mention unnecessarily rude and aggressive. This thread isn't about a nerf. You accuse me of all kinds of things, so if I say it seems like your defending something that's because of your curious hostility. Ignorance and fear mongering, eh? Just calm down a little there, buddy. Try decaf.

You said I am being silly, rude, and aggressive. I quoted and responded to 2 different people (not just you). It is not my fault your reading comprehension is either limited or you are deliberately being obtuse. If you are going to use my words, don't twist them into something they are not so you are able to play victim. This is deceitful.

Dru1076

Not even reading your posts anymore, @Xael . But I am sure someone is.

Xael

SirAndy wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

As I said in the other thread:
Again, show me proof of a "one shot" macro and its application. Where is the proof? You said it's all over the game, just give us 1... just 1 instance of it being used and exactly what they are doing.

You are saying macroing is breaking pvp, show us 1 example and what they are doing, just 1... otherwise like everything else, this is more hot air.

Listen, there are really only two explanations for your posts:

1. You sincerely don't know how to make a macro work for you in ESO and thus you assume it has to be impossible.
2. You know how to make a macro work for you in ESO and you're trying to hide the fact by exclaiming that there is no such thing.

You are the one making bold claims.
1. You claimed instagib macros are being used all over cyrodiil in PvP. I asked you for proof and explanation on what they are specifically doing. You provided 0 evidence.
2. You claimed I am saying this does not happen because I am doing them myself. Again, I asked you for proof, you provided 0 evidence. I also stream and host videos. Through these it's clear I don't use macros, nor do any of the other vet pvpers notorious for "insta gibbing." You are committing libel.
3. You keep spinning this argument, yet all I am asking for is evidence and an explanation of how an "insta gib" macro is giving players an unfair advantage. You provide 0 evidence.

Again, if it is so widespread (as you claim), you should be able to provide at least 1 example and yet you can't even do that.

You are either intentionally lying, or just shooting your mouth off spouting ignorance. All of your responses have been empty, just stop.

Dru1076

Sorry @Xael , but I am simply not interested enough in what you have to say to unignore you. Save your energies for Cyrodil. Nothing good can possibly come from talking to you.

I have not demanded any changes to the game. Going on the some of the responses, you'd think I've been a sweetroll stealing spree

SirAndy

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I can't imagine how a macro could improve the DPS of a reasonably (or even barely) competent player. Because of ESO's command queuing window of about half a second, you don't have to have "twitch" reflexes to execute abilities as fast as the cooldowns will allow.

But that's not the point. Of course a good player can get more or less reliable DPS from their rotation through practice.

The problem with the macros i have found to be working is not that they improve DPS over a well executed manual rotation but they do give you a perfect rotation EVERY time no matter the circumstances.
No matter if you're on top of your game or distracted by shiny things or lacking caffeine or being drunk, they always work just as well.
And secondly, they allow less skilled players to match the DPS of someone who spent many hours perfecting their rotation.

As i stated several times already, macros are only useful in certain situations but in the right place they do give you a single click "I WIN" button ...

Kas

just perma ban all actual macro users (including those still unable to weave in pve without a macro..) and give all people crying "macro" when they get killed by a better a forum/chat ban

rfennell_ESO

Hehe the denialists are funny.

Truth be told Macros aren't really a problem as they can all be done "normally" as well.

Now scripts... I'm sure those don't exist either. Especially ones that pull the page file to simulate lag.

Nope never heard of it, must not exist, you must be a liar.

It's not like there is actually a program you can download that automates macros for you, it can't exist right?. Not only does it not exist, it also couldn't possible also allow scripting if it did.

There certainly are players that use scripts to exploit the game by creating a lagswitch on their end and then rapidfire attacks when the connection resumes. When you see that lagged out warping followed by rapid executions of attacks, that's it. It's most noticeable on Critical charge as they ghost a little bit during it. There are players out there I know to use it and I know to look for them going into their lagged out state, that's when I start dodge rolling.

To think that steam and Wow both use programs to scan your memory and system to prevent these very things and ESO does not ought make you think. Valve and Blizzard both take these threats seriously, so that must mean that not only are they threats but they are real. Why Zeni has no such system is a mystery, but to claim there aren't people using things like them is laughable and more likely a hint as to who uses them.

FriedEggSandwich

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Hehe the denialists are funny.

Truth be told Macros aren't really a problem as they can all be done "normally" as well.

Now scripts... I'm sure those don't exist either. Especially ones that pull the page file to simulate lag.

Nope never heard of it, must not exist, you must be a liar.

It's not like there is actually a program you can download that automates macros for you, it can't exist right?. Not only does it not exist, it also couldn't possible also allow scripting if it did.

There certainly are players that use scripts to exploit the game by creating a lagswitch on their end and then rapidfire attacks when the connection resumes. When you see that lagged out warping followed by rapid executions of attacks, that's it. It's most noticeable on Critical charge as they ghost a little bit during it. There are players out there I know to use it and I know to look for them going into their lagged out state, that's when I start dodge rolling.

To think that steam and Wow both use programs to scan your memory and system to prevent these very things and ESO does not ought make you think. Valve and Blizzard both take these threats seriously, so that must mean that not only are they threats but they are real. Why Zeni has no such system is a mystery, but to claim there aren't people using things like them is laughable and more likely a hint as to who uses them.

Nobody is denying that they exist or even get used. I have a razer naga 2014 and a Ducky Shine 3 and I know what they are capable of in the way of automation. People are saying that they doubt that there are huge benefits to using them for the majority, and that it's impossible to prove, and therefore hysteria is the wrong response. Simple as that.

Dru1076

The only hysterics I see, @FriedEggSandwich , are coming from people hopping mad about whiners, which is really curious given my original post wasn't a complaint or a whine, but a question about opinions. I was just wondering if maybe I should learn how to use these things, and I honestly did not know whether or not they were considered cheating. I consider ganking sort of vague cheating, but I know people consider this legit play...apparently even Zos...so I was just seeking some clarification.

Everyone can relax...this is not a thread about wielding banhammers or nerfhammers. I have learned all I need to know about macros and what people think of them, and as usual far more than I wanted to know about the attitudes of some MMO gamers.

Perhaps it is time to move on and draw a battle line in a new thread?

FriedEggSandwich

Dru1076 wrote: »

The only hysterics I see, @FriedEggSandwich , are coming from people hopping mad about whiners, which is really curious given my original post wasn't a complaint or a whine, but a question about opinions. I was just wondering if maybe I should learn how to use these things, and I honestly did not know whether or not they were considered cheating. I consider ganking sort of vague cheating, but I know people consider this legit play...apparently even Zos...so I was just seeking some clarification.

Everyone can relax...this is not a thread about wielding banhammers or nerfhammers. I have learned all I need to know about macros and what people think of them, and as usual far more than I wanted to know about the attitudes of some MMO gamers.

Perhaps it is time to move on and draw a battle line in a new thread?

My comment wasn't really directed at you. I agree that your op was simply a benign question, and a reasonable one. It is frustrating to see people talking like they're illuminate though, like they have some inside info that confirms that macro use is widespread, but they can't provide evidence. It just amounts to fear mongering tbh, and zos are known for making rash changes based on peoples' hysteria.

rfennell_ESO

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Nobody is denying that they exist or even get used. I have a razer naga 2014 and a Ducky Shine 3 and I know what they are capable of in the way of automation. People are saying that they doubt that there are huge benefits to using them for the majority, and that it's impossible to prove, and therefore hysteria is the wrong response. Simple as that.

There certainly seems to be some people denying they exist or even get used, which is laughable.

The reason there isn't much more an issue with them and their usage in that it's limited in the scope of zerg vs zerg. Do some small scale pvp for a bit and you will see the cheat squads show up and you might think otherwise.

Many of them are using a particular program that is automation and scripting, it's been posted here and taken down countless times.

It's likely a much bigger problem in pvp than many can imagine and coupled with the fact that ZOS mostly can't do anything about it is the true joke.


P.S. It's being extensively abused with dawnbreaker right now.

Dru1076

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

The only hysterics I see, @FriedEggSandwich , are coming from people hopping mad about whiners, which is really curious given my original post wasn't a complaint or a whine, but a question about opinions. I was just wondering if maybe I should learn how to use these things, and I honestly did not know whether or not they were considered cheating. I consider ganking sort of vague cheating, but I know people consider this legit play...apparently even Zos...so I was just seeking some clarification.

Everyone can relax...this is not a thread about wielding banhammers or nerfhammers. I have learned all I need to know about macros and what people think of them, and as usual far more than I wanted to know about the attitudes of some MMO gamers.

Perhaps it is time to move on and draw a battle line in a new thread?

My comment wasn't really directed at you. I agree that your op was simply a benign question, and a reasonable one. It is frustrating to see people talking like they're illuminate though, like they have some inside info that confirms that macro use is widespread, but they can't provide evidence. It just amounts to fear mongering tbh, and zos are known for making rash changes based on peoples' hysteria.

Sorry dude....i get where you're coming from. And I disapprove of any overreaction.i I admit...i am bit on the defense myself and kind of wondering why. I guess I just wish people would remember that this is at the end of day a game, and perhaps not really worth getting all aggressive about. And I am talking generally here, not having a go at you at all.

k2blader

Dru1076 wrote: »

I see a lot of people talking about using macros to gain an edge in PVP. I was wondering what everyone thought about this. I don't want to do it, tbh I consider it blatant cheating ... But I don't want to disadvantage myself by not using them if they have become an accepted evil of the game. So the question I have is what is Zos's stance on the use of macros? A cheat or fair play? What do you guys think?

I think the bolded part is why ESO's PvP has become so bad. It seems like too many players choose to cheat "to stay competitive because everyone else is doing it" such that it's near impossible to tell who isn't cheating in any way and has actual "skill" (word used loosely).

The kinds of folks who like to think they are skilled will always go well out of their way trumpeting that to the heavens and justifying whatever they do to win. CPs aside, I'd rather just play in a landscape where there can be real fun to be had thanks to knowing no one's cheating because they're not able to.

rfennell_ESO

k2blader wrote: »

The kinds of folks who like to think they are skilled will always go well out of their way trumpeting that to the heavens and justifying whatever they do to win. CPs aside, I'd rather just play in a landscape where there can be real fun to be had thanks to knowing no one's cheating because they're not able to.

I agree totally. The issue is mostly the "kind of folks" are idiot kids or the unemployed losers, people that get esteem from a game are never good barometers of anything.

I only comment on the issue because I would much rather a balanced battlefield with active policing of it than a bunch of self aggrandizing losers claiming everything is fine and there is nothing to see regarding the blatant exploitationism that is what they have strived to make the game into.

My guess is the participation trophy generation is totally ok with whatever makes them a "winner".