Comparison between the Maw of the Infernal and Nerien'Eth

Dracane

Hey Folks,

I was finally able to perform my desired comparison between the Maw of the Infernal and Nerien'Eths set, now that the Maw of the Infernal can crit and had a chance to be on par with other sets.
I did this against a Craglorn Boss with a high health pool, I was using a level 3 weapon so that my own attacks are weak enough to keep him alive for 60 seconds to let the set procs show what they are capable of. Remember, that your own Magicka, Stamina, Spell and Weapon damage does not affect the damage of Monster sets. So using a level 3 weapon will not fake the results. I had 42% tolltip crit for each fight, the boss was standing still and all attacks could hit him.

The Daedroth procced 1 time in 60 seconds. Nerien procced 11 times in this tets, but procced more often in further tests. The thing with the Monster sets is luck. You cannot control the proc chance, and also crit chance matters. But I did my best to make it as clear as possible.

The Daedroth dealt 25 593 damage to the Boss. This is around 426 DPS for the duration of the fight. I tried to make the fight as beneficial as possible for the Daedroth. Against mobile enemies and enemies who use CC, the results would be worse.



The Boss didn't survive Nerien long enough to make it a 60 seconds fight. He dealt a total damage of 9511 with a DPS of over 1600.
Since he didn't survive, I also tried it over and over again to make it a 60 seconds fight.In most fights, his liddle scorpion friends spawned and the Nerien Crystal did AoE damage, for a total of over 190 000 in this fight, the dps was pushed to over 6000k for the crystals only. But then Scorpions dies, lowering the final DPS result. But this comparison is mainly about single target dps, so I only post it to give an overview.








As we can see, the Daedroth is still not a desired choice for dungeon dps. You cannot use him in pvp, because he does not proc against damage shields, players move alot and easily avoid his only usefull attack, his fire breath which he launches in a 2 meters cone.
I was not able to test, if Nerien is usefull in pvp. It is great against groups I suppose, but probably not that good against mobile targets.

Suggestion: Please increase the proc chance for the Daedroth or increase his duration. The only good thing about the Daedroth is his Fire breath attack, which will miss most monsters and bosses, because the area of effect is too small. We cannot change the AI behavior of the Daedroth, so we have to compensate for his mistakes by giving him a higher proc chance and duration.

actosh

It would be so nice if daedroth would be pushed.
More dmg, bigger cone, higher duration and a bit more ai.

Just like the daedroths in the new dungeon perhaps ^^

Dracane

actosh wrote: »

It would be so nice if daedroth would be pushed.
More dmg, bigger cone, higher duration and a bit more ai.

Just like the daedroths in the new dungeon perhaps ^^

That would be nice indeed.
I just can't make this thing viable even for Sorcerers it's not compareable to other sets.
If they would increase his duration to to 20 or 25 seconds and increase his proc chance to 10 or 15%, it would help a lot I think.

Not sure if they can help his AI. I suppose it's hard to rewrite that ?

Thelon

Thank you for the testing.

Dracane

Thelon wrote: »

Thank you for the testing.

You're welcome
I'm currently trying to figure out, how to write an ingame feedback about it without producing an endless text.

Rayste

Dracane wrote: »

Hey Folks,

I was finally able to perform my desired comparison between the Maw of the Infernal and Nerien'Eths set, now that the Maw of the Infernal can crit and had a chance to be on par with other sets.
I did this against a Craglorn Boss with a high health pool, I was using a level 3 weapon so that my own attacks are weak enough to keep him alive for 60 seconds to let the set procs show what they are capable of. Remember, that your own Magicka, Stamina, Spell and Weapon damage does not affect the damage of Monster sets. So using a level 3 weapon will not fake the results. I had 42% tolltip crit for each fight, the boss was standing still and all attacks could hit him.

The Daedroth procced 1 time in 60 seconds. Nerien procced 11 times in this tets, but procced more often in further tests. The thing with the Monster sets is luck. You cannot control the proc chance, and also crit chance matters. But I did my best to make it as clear as possible.

The Daedroth dealt 25 593 damage to the Boss. This is around 426 DPS for the duration of the fight. I tried to make the fight as beneficial as possible for the Daedroth. Against mobile enemies and enemies who use CC, the results would be worse.



The Boss didn't survive Nerien long enough to make it a 60 seconds fight. He dealt a total damage of 9511 with a DPS of over 1600.
Since he didn't survive, I also tried it over and over again to make it a 60 seconds fight.In most fights, his liddle scorpion friends spawned and the Nerien Crystal did AoE damage, for a total of over 190 000 in this fight, the dps was pushed to over 6000k for the crystals only. But then Scorpions dies, lowering the final DPS result. But this comparison is mainly about single target dps, so I only post it to give an overview.








As we can see, the Daedroth is still not a desired choice for dungeon dps. You cannot use him in pvp, because he does not proc against damage shields, players move alot and easily avoid his only usefull attack, his fire breath which he launches in a 2 meters cone.
I was not able to test, if Nerien is usefull in pvp. It is great against groups I suppose, but probably not that good against mobile targets.

Suggestion: Please increase the proc chance for the Daedroth or increase his duration. The only good thing about the Daedroth is his Fire breath attack, which will miss most monsters and bosses, because the area of effect is too small. We cannot change the AI behavior of the Daedroth, so we have to compensate for his mistakes by giving him a higher proc chance and duration.

Great stuff man. Keep up the good work.

And agreed, I have always wanted to roll this set but it has never been viable.

Robbmrp

Great post. If they don't change how this works, no one will bother using it. Most of the magicka users I know that have these helms go with Nerien'eth for the extra damage. I was surprised at how often I would see it proc for them. it was almost every mob fight.

Dracane

Rayste wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Hey Folks,

I was finally able to perform my desired comparison between the Maw of the Infernal and Nerien'Eths set, now that the Maw of the Infernal can crit and had a chance to be on par with other sets.
I did this against a Craglorn Boss with a high health pool, I was using a level 3 weapon so that my own attacks are weak enough to keep him alive for 60 seconds to let the set procs show what they are capable of. Remember, that your own Magicka, Stamina, Spell and Weapon damage does not affect the damage of Monster sets. So using a level 3 weapon will not fake the results. I had 42% tolltip crit for each fight, the boss was standing still and all attacks could hit him.

The Daedroth procced 1 time in 60 seconds. Nerien procced 11 times in this tets, but procced more often in further tests. The thing with the Monster sets is luck. You cannot control the proc chance, and also crit chance matters. But I did my best to make it as clear as possible.

The Daedroth dealt 25 593 damage to the Boss. This is around 426 DPS for the duration of the fight. I tried to make the fight as beneficial as possible for the Daedroth. Against mobile enemies and enemies who use CC, the results would be worse.



The Boss didn't survive Nerien long enough to make it a 60 seconds fight. He dealt a total damage of 9511 with a DPS of over 1600.
Since he didn't survive, I also tried it over and over again to make it a 60 seconds fight.In most fights, his liddle scorpion friends spawned and the Nerien Crystal did AoE damage, for a total of over 190 000 in this fight, the dps was pushed to over 6000k for the crystals only. But then Scorpions dies, lowering the final DPS result. But this comparison is mainly about single target dps, so I only post it to give an overview.








As we can see, the Daedroth is still not a desired choice for dungeon dps. You cannot use him in pvp, because he does not proc against damage shields, players move alot and easily avoid his only usefull attack, his fire breath which he launches in a 2 meters cone.
I was not able to test, if Nerien is usefull in pvp. It is great against groups I suppose, but probably not that good against mobile targets.

Suggestion: Please increase the proc chance for the Daedroth or increase his duration. The only good thing about the Daedroth is his Fire breath attack, which will miss most monsters and bosses, because the area of effect is too small. We cannot change the AI behavior of the Daedroth, so we have to compensate for his mistakes by giving him a higher proc chance and duration.

Great stuff man. Keep up the good work.

And agreed, I have always wanted to roll this set but it has never been viable.

I wanted the same. And the improvements from the latest updates helped this set. But it's still not viable when comparing it to other possible damage Monster sets. I've now tested Valkyn Skoria, Skoria is stronger than the Daedroth, but weaker than Nerien. The main reason might be, that Skoria has a bigger cooldown than Nerien, but it's still very viable and better for DoT builds than Nerien.

But the Maw of the Infernal.... no matter how desperately I would like it being viable. I currently can't find a place, where it could be usefull except for a fun build.

Dracane

Robbmrp wrote: »

Great post. If they don't change how this works, no one will bother using it. Most of the magicka users I know that have these helms go with Nerien'eth for the extra damage. I was surprised at how often I would see it proc for them. it was almost every mob fight.

Indeed. I was quite surprised, that Nerien only procced a few times in this 60 second fights. I usually procs muuuuch more often. The maximum I was able to reach with the Daedroth was 2 procs, still nowhere near as good as Nerien or Valkyn.

Rayste

What

Dracane wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Great post. If they don't change how this works, no one will bother using it. Most of the magicka users I know that have these helms go with Nerien'eth for the extra damage. I was surprised at how often I would see it proc for them. it was almost every mob fight.

Indeed. I was quite surprised, that Nerien only procced a few times in this 60 second fights. I usually procs muuuuch more often. The maximum I was able to reach with the Daedroth was 2 procs, still nowhere near as good as Nerien or Valkyn.

What's the proc chance on test right now? Would 50% uptime on him be too much?

Dracane

Rayste wrote: »

What

Dracane wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Great post. If they don't change how this works, no one will bother using it. Most of the magicka users I know that have these helms go with Nerien'eth for the extra damage. I was surprised at how often I would see it proc for them. it was almost every mob fight.

Indeed. I was quite surprised, that Nerien only procced a few times in this 60 second fights. I usually procs muuuuch more often. The maximum I was able to reach with the Daedroth was 2 procs, still nowhere near as good as Nerien or Valkyn.

What's the proc chance on test right now? Would 50% uptime on him be too much?

He procced 1 time in 50 light attacks and then he only stays for 15 seconds
The resulting up time is almost non existing in this fight. While Nerien provides me with constant and reliable dps, just like Skoria

Stikato

Yet another thing that doesn't proc against damage shields. If it's a design element so be it, but I don't understand it.

Lord_Hev

@ZOS_RichLambert


There are some very well thought out and easy to implement suggestions for Maw of the Infernal in this thread. Please consider them for implementation before August 31st, so that people will actually use this set competitively.

Merlin13KAGL

Unfortunately, neither set will see as much use, especially in PvP.

With the 3 second timer on the crystals, most people will be moved away by the time they trigger.

The Daedroth is more of an additional target (meat shield) than an effective addition to DPS. He should at least draw aggro/taunt while present.

They improved both sets, but they're still nowhere near useful enough to be a substitute for many of the standard drops available. It's a shame.

Dracane

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert


There are some very well thought out and easy to implement suggestions for Maw of the Infernal in this thread. Please consider them for implementation before August 31st, so that people will actually use this set competitively.

Thanks Hev and Rich, would be so great if you would give this to your team.
It's hard to write ingame feedback and describe this with a few words

@Stikato It's quite annoying, that damage shields negate quite a few effects. I can understand, that damage shields counter Soul Siphon and Elemental drain, because your body don't get hit. But if a light attack hits, it should have the chance to trigger the Daedroth. There are bosses using damage shields, who will be immune to this set at times.