Hunger as a Game Mechanic?

ThisOnePosts

Sure.... don't eat your food and I'll give you a location to go to in Cyrodiil.... just play the lute there and you'll be rewarded...but not with kindness.

dday3six

mrskinskull wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

This game has no place for mechanics like that. Overburdened was taking out for the same reason. There doesn't need to be an undertone laced with survival themes.

By "taken out" you mean "not included", right? Dogs ESO ever have an encumbrance mechanic? I have actually suggested one one be added.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1

Yes, but also I mean taken out compared to other Elder Scrolls or Fallout games. Some players want ESO to basically be a multiplayer clone of Skyrim or Oblivion. The game cannot function as an MMO and do that.

I agree that we can't have a 1:1 copy of a single player experience but I disagree that some of more role play intensive features have no place in ESO. Open your mind and check out that thread I linked. It could work to everyone's benefit.

Niche playstyles hardly benefit everyone.

It wouldn't be a niche play style... it would be a beneficial mechanic to all players and would only add options without taking anything away. But, I see your mind is closed to the idea as you didn't seem to even bother checking out the thread.

Nevertheless I stand by the idea and the philosophy that ESO can be more than a "me too" MMO.

I clicked the thread, and it dates back to April. Your ideas were niche, overly convoluted, and needlessly complicated. But yes by mind is closed off to finding any benefits to a system, even if optional, which adds elements that require micromanagement.

Unique ideas are what is needed to help ESO carve out its own space in the mmo market, maybe one idea doesn't strike you as amazing but crapping on people who are thinking outside of the box only dooms you to play a vanilla me too mmo.

Adding hunger as an optional skill line would make it available but not obligatory.

Survival immersion was so popular it was added into fallout new Vegas, so there is a market for it.
Again the console mmo market is a different beast and the faster companies realise its the skyrim guys keeping the lights on at zos the better off we will all be.

Stealing and crime as a game mechanic, anyone?

That's meticulous and skyrim esque , that included an optional skill line.

So many people never used it and it failed miserably, but geez it was a good attempt right?
ESO gets better when its less like the other standard mmos., IMO.

But hey hunger, overburdened, its all just suggestions we make to help this game find its way.

Pretending that console players want a game which leans heavily on single player features, while posing as an MMO is creating a false narrative to support features you want. Simply because you want something, doesn't mean every other player does too, or that it will even work in the game. Most ESO players want a functional MMO based on ES lore, not Skyrim with friends, sprinkled with Fallout New Vegas.

The box is the plan the ZOS has for ESO. Thinking outside of it, whether creative or just trying to rehash another, different game's features, is still pulling in the opposite direction. Particularly when those features are from single player games. The game is not set up to support survival mechanics, and there is a point when optional features, become wasted time. That is what adding survival mechanics to ESO is, wasted time, as it would require several parts of the game be reworked to support it.

MMO's need a loyal playerbase who is on the same page. Catering to what the largest majority of players want is a far better use of developer time, then creating on optional feature and reworking the game to support it. When a small number of players would actually use it, and will likely complain about the perceived "unfair" advantage players who didn't use it have.
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I'm not pretending. Im stating facts. The game launched more on the mmo side and has been adding features that bring it in line with a group skyrim experience.

That's not me telling you how or what to play. I'm just pointing out that every time zos moves in that direction more casuals buy the game. The mmo stuff is hard to walk into fresh. And the mmo crowd is way smaller on console . So zos is pivoting to collect a different demographic.

You can go to game trailers . Com and look at the ESO interview from pax 2015 I think, and the PR guy lays it out pretty clearly.

Sorry if my points conflict with you, they're not meant to be inflammatory.

What features? You're making stuff up. Eso is an MMO whether console or PC. That is why ZOS markets it as such. The game it not drastically different from one platform to the other. ZOS is adding combat text and effect trackers in fact, because several players want them. Those are typical MMO features, and far detached from Skyrim.

Causals would not be interested in a hunger/survival system. The game you got the idea from, Fallout New Vegas, literally calls it hardcore mode. Think about it for a moment. Why would a causal player, typically defined as a player with limited time to play, want another system they needed to manage while playing. You seem so confused with you're talking about that you're grasping at points that aren't correlated, and don't even make sense.

You didn't watch the interview did you?

Go and watch zos official development direction laid out.

Casuals. Easy. Shy away from the mmo label or at least hide the crunchy stuff deep in the game.
And the topic is supposed to be kind of a fun thought exercise.

Its not supposed to have a person fuming and writing a 500 word tirade.

Be like zos, bro.
Keep it casual.

Like I said confused. A hunger mechanic is in no way causal.

That's why it would be an optional skill line.

So the uninterested could pass by.

I know many hunters who are casual gamers. This absolutely fits the genre.

More than a table researching your items for you while you defeat molag bol.

It "fits" because it's something you're interested in. Regardless of whether the game is set up to support it in the first place, you going to say it fits, because you want it.

ESO is not a survival based game. It's a loot based one, set in a persistent world. Why should ZOS spend time reworking the game to add in survival incentives? Why should their workload be increased with making sure players who choose to use this proposed skill line are able to complete the game while remaining competitive?

If you think ZOS won't have to balance this mechanic because it's optional, you're fooling yourself. If it's in the game, it will need to be supported and maintained.

Hmmm.

I think zos is trying for a different approach on console than the boring old mmo mold.

The underpinnings are there but, zos has proven its trying to court the casual console crowd with various design choices.

Whose to say something that wouldnt work in wow, can't work here?

The world already has one wow.

I think if ESO tries to be a weak carbon copy it will likely just make people want to play wow. If it is its own unique beast, success will follow.

Nonsensical dribble oozes from your eyes, ears, and nose.

So, for starters ESO on console and pc, is on the same path. The games are not going to be wildly different. They will stay that way because it's easier to develop, maintain, and promote one game rather than two. The fanciful notion you have that ESO on console will morph into a completely game than ESO on pc is pure fiction.

Then WOW has nothing to do with it. ESO was never trying to be WOW. The point is there are no survival incentives in ESO, and resources are far too easily available. Putting in a skill point into a line is not going to be able to radically alter the overall world of ESO to suddenly make resources scarce. Nor would the tooltip be able to concisely explain to players what changes would occur even if it were possible.

It is not about uniqueness, it's about the game not being set up to support a survival mechanic.

Kammakazi

What is this, Minecraft?

Alucardo

Vestige, it's time for you to face Molag Bal. But first, I need some lasagne.

Knootewoot

Only if they also add the urge to poop. Else it makes no sense.

But no. I play survival games for that.

Casdha

Just consider your stats after you eat or drink your base stats and if you don't eat or drink every half hour to an hour (depending on the meal) your stats will drop. Problem solved.

Jim_Berry

Nah!

I quest a lot. The lastthing I need is to go hungry during a quest, warp out, feed/rest, travel to nearest Wayshrine, travel back to where I was questing.

Kalfis

Keep *** mechanics from survival games out of my MMO, thank you.

Sausage

Survival games are own genre imho. H1Z1 is coming soon if thats you're up to.

Carter_DC

Hunger mechanics are not immersive, they're just a drag.

If u start with that kinda gameplay, then where does it ends. What nutritive value does your food have ? How often do you have to eat... 1 meal a day ? Ok, i'll have a potato or a radish a day... so much for immersion.

Not enough ? Ok, maybe you have to eat 3 meals a day ? (are we talking 3 classic 3-course-meals a day ? )
But then you'll die a dehydration, maybe you'll have to drink 1.5 litter of water a day.

A day, is that InGame Time ? like 3 meals every 6 IRL hours ?

If you have to eat and drink, then you have to poop.. and then you have to wash.. and then you're playing The Elder Sims Online.


In pvp or pve, you cannot afford to run outta food or drink otherwise you're too weak. Not immersive at all but everyone does eat or drink already in the game.


The only mechanics that could have such timers with negative effects would be drugs. But alas, there's no actual skooma (nor any other enhancing drugs) in this game.


As for siege mechanics, well, ppl that are under siege cannot teleport nor respawn... I guess that's the effect of siegeing and running out of supplies.

UltimaJoe777

Adding hunger and thirst for regular food and drinks would completely mess with Provisioning as it stands and probably *** a lot of players off. We didn't exactly spend time getting purple recipes just to stay full...

Long story short I would not count on a hunger system ever being implemented. We get enough of that with Vampirism Stages thank you very much...

Septimus_Magna

This is why you need to eat buff food/drink every 2 hours, you char gets hungry!

mrskinskull

Kalfis wrote: »

Keep *** mechanics from survival games out of my MMO, thank you.

I agree provisioning has got to go!

Any game mechanic remotely related to the sustained life process, GONE!

All of those PLANTS and ROCKS you harvest and scour the WILDERNESS for are gone!

All those DEER, GUAR, NETCHES, FOXES, SNAKES, TOADS, RATS etc that you HUNT, those should go too.

ESO should be nothing but that scrolling screen of numbers from the matrix.

You got it buddy.

Normally I would say knee jerk, negative comments such as this indicate a strong lack of comprehension and consideration of context but in your case, I have to disagree.

Well thought out comment, excellent analysis.
I think you've really cracked this thread wide open.

mrskinskull

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This is why you need to eat buff food/drink every 2 hours, you char gets hungry!

That's what I'm saying, the mechanic already exists.

A bit of optional tweaking with a slight increase to rewards and a time phase change for a few stages of hunger as an optional skull line.

One you would need to seek out such as vampirism and then consciously choose to embark on.

Survivalist or cannibal.

Kupoking

Without food or drink buff up I feel like my character is starved of its stats

mrskinskull

This is just a side note but it might be fun to cannibalize your PvP opponents. Maybe generate some sort of food item out of them. Hmmm,.

Digiman

Eriquito3 wrote: »

I like this idea. Like if there is a a survival mode campaign like this. Where you can starve to death. It would be interesting.

I would also love to see it in the new fallout game too. I know that's off topic a bit.

Yeah and every player would turn cannibal just to avoid the mechanic. Realism...

Robo_Hobo

I always have mods that add realistic needs like this for ES games, however, this is the one ES game where it makes sense not to have to eat/sleep/drink, etc, since youre pretty much a form of undead.

vamp_emily

No thanks. It would just gives them something else to nerf, and we would be too weak to fight.

BlackEar

mrskinskull wrote: »

Do you think adding an option to feel hunger and thirst would add to immersion in ESO?

Such as the survival mode in fallout new Vegas. Optional of course.

Maybe if you opted into hunger, your food would get a buff on usage.

Imagine if a PvP server included hunger and thirst as a condition!

You really could siege a fort and starve your enemies out or camp a favored water well.

Hmm.

Have any other mmo games included such a mechanic?

Mine craft doesn't exactly count.

I would hate that.
If I wanted survival I could play Skyrim Frostfire (or whatever the mod is called), which a game much better suited to your request.

Faulgor

The only Hunger they should add to the game is this one:
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hunger#Hunger

Vampire-Mk2

It would be a good feature if there were more animals and plants to hunt and means to track and hunt as well as migration and seasons for crops. Not to mention mini games for cooking.

Unless you have a full ecosystem to make hunting, gathering, cooking etc then it would just become a pointless need to do system before you can get back to the game.

I'm all for hunger and sleep systems and survival aspects in open world games. But they need to be fun features or it will just put people off.

AhPook_Is_Here

mrskinskull wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

No thanks.

Have you played a vampire yet?

The concept is kind of already there.

except who isn't stage 4 for life? who would nerf themselves by feeding? bad idea!

Molag_Crow

If we get hunger as a game mechanic then we also need to go poop. Outhouses outside every resource tower.

dday3six

mrskinskull wrote: »

This is just a side note but it might be fun to cannibalize your PvP opponents. Maybe generate some sort of food item out of them. Hmmm,.

Werewolf already lets players do that, and if for some reason a player feels their vampire skill should cost more, they can feed on other players as well.

mrskinskull

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

No thanks.

Have you played a vampire yet?

The concept is kind of already there.

except who isn't stage 4 for life? who would nerf themselves by feeding? bad idea!

What if the hunger mechanic had a similar pro and con?

Maybe making you more vicious?

CGPsaint

I'm all for sharing ideas, however I shan't be supporting this one! The reason being, that eating/drinking obviously grants passives, and I'm guessing that if we needed to eat regularly, that we would just be cancelling active passives in the process. Leave food and drinks as they are and let us choose the item that we consume based on the buff needed for whatever situation is at hand.

mrskinskull

CGPsaint wrote: »

I'm all for sharing ideas, however I shan't be supporting this one! The reason being, that eating/drinking obviously grants passives, and I'm guessing that if we needed to eat regularly, that we would just be cancelling active passives in the process. Leave food and drinks as they are and let us choose the item that we consume based on the buff needed for whatever situation is at hand.

I have a question, if PC players have an add on that alerts them to the count down time of their food buffs, how much of a jump would it be to expand a bit on a few mechanics already widely in use?

Alukit

in terms of that mechanic i haven't really see it being done correctly in any MMO or even see it at all since the glory old days of EQ. its a idea that comes from a base D&D game play that just doesn't translate well to online MMO's.

CGPsaint

Alukit wrote: »

in terms of that mechanic i haven't really see it being done correctly in any MMO or even see it at all since the glory old days of EQ. its a idea that comes from a base D&D game play that just doesn't translate well to online MMO's.

I remember having to feed my pets in UO or else you risked them going wild. That's not a huge problem if your horse suddenly goes wild, however your pet dragon walking beside you or the nightmare that you're riding are a different story altogether.