ESO = DAOC 2?

Gidorick

ESO is one of the few MMOs I've played. I played FFXI a little bit and played through DCUO, so I'm not by any means an MMO vet. I was just poking around some MMO sites today and found these mounts from Dark Age of Camelot:

Now, I have been an outspoken dissident of the fantasy horses that have been released by ESO. I don't think they have a place in ESO. I've made a few threads about this if you want to argue the merits of that opinion (HERE and HERE), that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about the fact that the two above mounts bare an undeniable resemblance to the Nightmare Courser and Frost Mare mounts in ESO.

I know @ZOS_MattFiror worked on DAOC so it would make sense that some of the design elements be similar but having 2 mounts added to ESO that were also in DAOC makes me wonder how much of ESO has been influenced by DAOC.

So here is my question to those that have played DAOC... just how much is The Elder Scrolls Online like a Dark Age of Camelot 2? Are the deigns of the games similar? I know both games have 3 factions that are at war with one another. Is the gameplay similar? How far do the similarities go?

Shadeaux

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/02/eso-daoc-legacy/

callahan9119

I haven't gotten to pvp yet, but I played about 6 years of daoc and the pve is a million times better than daoc. That said,all I cared about in daoc was rvr, and it's the only reason I bought eso

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

LOL ESO dont even come near the king of kings

WolffenBloodseeker

Aye ESO is a direct successor to the glory of DAOC in MY opinion, once they fix the lag in AvA and with the addition of the Imperial City (darkness falls) in less than a month the game will be worth of all praises as the best MMO to date (no game is perfect but eso is god damn good)

edit: *brace for the hate legions charge*

trimsic_ESO

The gameplay is quite different:
- Crowd control spells are quite limited in effect compared to those of DAoC: lack of ranged AoE mezz, lack of ranged AoE roots, very short CC duration, every one can self purge. The consequence is that it's not possible for a small group of players to manage the masses, and there is nothing efficient enough to counter the zerg.
- Only a few combo: only a few spells really synergize together, thus limiting the gameplay.
- No positioning skills: 360 degrees block box, no bonus when hitting someone in the back, no flancking bonuses. This is limiting the gameplay.
- Most spells have no cast time, and therefore cannot be interrupted. It's therefore easy for a caster to kite and hit a melee class, despite the gap closers.
- No guard, no targetted heal, no target assist, thus limiting a lot the teamplay.

ESO's gameplay promotes the zerg for a very simple reason: healing and buffs are applied to a small perimeter and in most cases around the caster, who is therefore close to the raid leader with all his teammates, so everyone can get healed, and buffed, and dispelled.

Gidorick

I read through both articles on Tamriel Foundry @Shadeaux. They were written February 22, 2013 and March 7, 2013, so well over two years ago and they were based not on gameplay experience but on reported features. I am looking for opinions that take into account how ESO has grown/changed/developed. Especially since the thing that made me question the similarities are two relatively new mounts in ESO.

Thanks @callahan9119. That's good information. So DAOC was more PVP focused? So the only fair comparison between the two would be the PVP portion of the game I guess. was DAOC open world PVP? I looked at a map and I didn't see a "central war-zone" like in ESO.

NewBlacksmurf

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

Sallington

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Aye ESO is a direct successor to the glory of DAOC in MY opinion, once they fix the lag in AvA and with the addition of the Imperial City (darkness falls) in less than a month the game will be worth of all praises as the best MMO to date (no game is perfect but eso is god damn good)

edit: *brace for the hate legions charge*

Fixing the lag is a big if. IF they fix it though, I will never leave Cyrodil.

Gidorick

Thanks for the comparison of IC to Darkness Falls @WolffenBloodseeker. I looked it up on the DAOC wiki. The functional design is quite similar!

jtlightner

WoW Warlocks had nightmare mounts, and their pay for Celestial Steed looks similar to these ice inspired mounts. What MMO hasn't had this? You can even say that the Senche mounts look too similar to what is in WoW as well. I don't see an issue here.

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

As someone who has been playing ESO because it's Elder Scrolls... I kind of find it disheartening to have the design of ESO mirror that of another game franchise. Obviously they aren't the same game, but it seems like DAOC players would feel right at home in Cyrodiil.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

I read through both articles on Tamriel Foundry @Shadeaux. They were written February 22, 2013 and March 7, 2013, so well over two years ago and they were based not on gameplay experience but on reported features. I am looking for opinions that take into account how ESO has grown/changed/developed. Especially since the thing that made me question the similarities are two relatively new mounts in ESO.

Thanks @callahan9119. That's good information. So DAOC was more PVP focused? So the only fair comparison between the two would be the PVP portion of the game I guess. was DAOC open world PVP? I looked at a map and I didn't see a "central war-zone" like in ESO.

It wasn't more PvP based...just that the game was more developed than this is so far.
Expansions for DAoC brought a lot of PvE content but the level max stayed at 50 and worked as content was new and fun but no level grinds.


the PvP was in an area called Frontier....
Think of Cyrodil but without any queues (as the game was server based, not a massive server like this)
Imperial City concept was there call Dark Falls
Veteran Ranks = PvP leveling and not PvE

Gidorick

jtlightner wrote: »

WoW Warlocks had nightmare mounts, and their pay for Celestial Steed looks similar to these ice inspired mounts. What MMO hasn't had this? You can even say that the Senche mounts look too similar to what is in WoW as well. I don't see an issue here.

So you're saying it's more that it's a staple of MMOs in general... and you are totally right. The Felsteed and Celestial look a LOT like Nightmare Courser and Frost Mare.

Point taken.

Xendyn

I would say more "partly inspired by" in some aspects (AvA). I'm looking at the next "partly inspired by" in Camelot Unchained, where some of the rest of the DAOC team went. I learned to like AvA here for the first time and I'm hoping for more

Psychobunni

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

As someone who has been playing ESO because it's Elder Scrolls... I kind of find it disheartening to have the design of ESO mirror that of another game franchise. Obviously they aren't the same game, but it seems like DAOC players would feel right at home in Cyrodiil.

Me too! Wiki has some numbers of 250k peak subscribers...Is that the best they did?

Audigy

Well,

DAOC was a more RVR focused game.

From level 1-9 you did PVE, like unlocking your riding skill, helping some folks against NPC´s of the enemy faction. Once you reached level 10, battlegrounds became a thing and they were in brackets so that a lot of people tried to stay on top of the bracket before moving to the next.

If I recall correctly it was 10-14, 15-19, 20-24 ...

These battlegrounds had quests, you could do them in pve or pvp. As example, kill enemy players of the Albion faction or kill some swamp witches (NPCs) and frogs. Besides that, every battleground had keeps, that you could claim for your faction.

Once you reached max level 50, you could advance to the RVR large scale content which was a huge zone that fell apart after King Arthur died.
There were keeps, towers to claim and artifacts which you could steal from the enemy faction.

Both PVE and RVR awarded you with ability points that you could invest into a huge amount of skills. New expansion packs tend to give you additional levels, similar to the VR system at ESO, but one also introduced a Champion System with quests and skills, Darkness Rising it was called.


ESO isn't a DAOC, but some similarities do exist.

What we miss is a housing system, the vendors that sold our stuff, the massive amount of classes (to note, not all were really that different of the other) or Campaigns. Campaigns were dynamic events, where every week or two, something happened that had a huge impact on the game. It was like a storyline going on for several months. Like the Dragon campaign, where you had to fight them and their armies off.

Pirhana7_ESO

Psychobunni wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

As someone who has been playing ESO because it's Elder Scrolls... I kind of find it disheartening to have the design of ESO mirror that of another game franchise. Obviously they aren't the same game, but it seems like DAOC players would feel right at home in Cyrodiil.

Me too! Wiki has some numbers of 250k peak subscribers...Is that the best they did?

Well DAOC came out in 2001 when most gamers were still playing consoles. Most the PC gamers were playing RTS . The PC crowd was very small at that time and the basic PC that could play games good cost about $ 2000. The PC crowd is about 20X larger now with your game playing PC only around $500. So even thow DAOC only had 250k subs back then in 2001 that would be like 5mill subs today with teh current PC gaming population

Pirhana7_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO is one of the few MMOs I've played. I played FFXI a little bit and played through DCUO, so I'm not by any means an MMO vet. I was just poking around some MMO sites today and found these mounts from Dark Age of Camelot:

Now, I have been an outspoken dissident of the fantasy horses that have been released by ESO. I don't think they have a place in ESO. I've made a few threads about this if you want to argue the merits of that opinion (HERE and HERE), that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about the fact that the two above mounts bare an undeniable resemblance to the Nightmare Courser and Frost Mare mounts in ESO.

I know @ZOS_MattFiror worked on DAOC so it would make sense that some of the design elements be similar but having 2 mounts added to ESO that were also in DAOC makes me wonder how much of ESO has been influenced by DAOC.

So here is my question to those that have played DAOC... just how much is The Elder Scrolls Online like a Dark Age of Camelot 2? Are the deigns of the games similar? I know both games have 3 factions that are at war with one another. Is the gameplay similar? How far do the similarities go?

Well currently ESO satisifies my RVR (AVA) needs and is currently the best siege warfare MMO out there but it still comes no where close to DAOC. Alot of us are just playing ESO while we wait for Camelot Unchianed. That will be much closer to DAOC 2 than anything else

Gidorick

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

As someone who has been playing ESO because it's Elder Scrolls... I kind of find it disheartening to have the design of ESO mirror that of another game franchise. Obviously they aren't the same game, but it seems like DAOC players would feel right at home in Cyrodiil.

Me too! Wiki has some numbers of 250k peak subscribers...Is that the best they did?

Well DAOC came out in 2001 when most gamers were still playing consoles. Most the PC gamers were playing RTS . The PC crowd was very small at that time and the basic PC that could play games good cost about $ 2000. The PC crowd is about 20X larger now with your game playing PC only around $500. So even thow DAOC only had 250k subs back then in 2001 that would be like 5mill subs today with teh current PC gaming population

I don't think Everquest (the "wow" of 2001) ever even hit 500K subs... did they? That just goes to show you how expectations have changed!

Kloud

Huh

ThatNeonZebraAgain

While ESO is definitely heavily influenced by DAoC, I believe Camelot Unchained is the real "DAoC 2" in spirit (even though they don't like that exact title!). Game is about to enter first phase of beta, and it is shaping up extremely nicely.

Pirhana7_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I've been saying this since day 1.....
but its the good and the bad of DAoC now in TESO

As someone who has been playing ESO because it's Elder Scrolls... I kind of find it disheartening to have the design of ESO mirror that of another game franchise. Obviously they aren't the same game, but it seems like DAOC players would feel right at home in Cyrodiil.

Me too! Wiki has some numbers of 250k peak subscribers...Is that the best they did?

Well DAOC came out in 2001 when most gamers were still playing consoles. Most the PC gamers were playing RTS . The PC crowd was very small at that time and the basic PC that could play games good cost about $ 2000. The PC crowd is about 20X larger now with your game playing PC only around $500. So even thow DAOC only had 250k subs back then in 2001 that would be like 5mill subs today with teh current PC gaming population

I don't think Everquest (the "wow" of 2001) ever even hit 500K subs... did they? That just goes to show you how expectations have changed!

I'm not sure, I remember EQ vs DAOC was the big fight back then. I remember there being some big survey and I beleive EQ had 60% of the MMO player base while DAOC had 40%.

sagitter

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO is one of the few MMOs I've played. I played FFXI a little bit and played through DCUO, so I'm not by any means an MMO vet. I was just poking around some MMO sites today and found these mounts from Dark Age of Camelot:

Now, I have been an outspoken dissident of the fantasy horses that have been released by ESO. I don't think they have a place in ESO. I've made a few threads about this if you want to argue the merits of that opinion (HERE and HERE), that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about the fact that the two above mounts bare an undeniable resemblance to the Nightmare Courser and Frost Mare mounts in ESO.

I know @ZOS_MattFiror worked on DAOC so it would make sense that some of the design elements be similar but having 2 mounts added to ESO that were also in DAOC makes me wonder how much of ESO has been influenced by DAOC.

So here is my question to those that have played DAOC... just how much is The Elder Scrolls Online like a Dark Age of Camelot 2? Are the deigns of the games similar? I know both games have 3 factions that are at war with one another. Is the gameplay similar? How far do the similarities go?

Well currently ESO satisifies my RVR (AVA) needs and is currently the best siege warfare MMO out there but it still comes no where close to DAOC. Alot of us are just playing ESO while we wait for Camelot Unchianed. That will be much closer to DAOC 2 than anything else

I played Daoc for almost 12 years.
Matt Firor not only just worked on Daoc , from wiki:
Firor stayed at Mythic from 1995–2006, where he was the producer of most of Mythic's titles, including the worldwide MMORPG bestseller Dark Age of Camelot and its first two expansions.
Firor was vice-president of product development at Mythic, where he was - along with COO Rob Denton - responsible for the management of all of Mythic's development projects.

Also he worked on Daoc new frontiers, that's why sieging in Eso is so similar to Daoc sieging.
The incoming imperial City is based on Daoc Darkness falls system, much similar, i'd say DF 2.0.So actually Eso is the much closer mmo to Daoc , less hardcore pvp progression(more balanced) but i think closer than CU. In fact, forget the Daoc lore, CU has nothing to do with it.CU has no pve, CU has no realm abilities progression, the only thing CU has similar to Daoc is siege system, advanced,rvr map terrains, and 3 different and deep realms factions. Eso got at least some ava ranks and abilities that are underworking and they'll add some more new ava abilities in the future, like they did with vigor, guard,flare and detonation. I hope all good things for Mark Jacobs, but i can't see, where his visions are bringing him.