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DW = More Spell Dmg?
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DerpyShadowz✭✭✭✭Flameheart wrote: »
Makes sense, but I wonder if there is a remarkable gap when you are able to stand in melee range and you are able to light attack weave ?
For ranged fighting you are probably right. I will see to make a skill bar preset for that, for ranged bosses at least.
Well, theres a few ways to think about that, For starters, Your staff attacks scale with you because your a magicka based DD, so they benefit from what you've primarily invested in. Dual wield attacks would be using your weapon damage stat since its a physical weapon, So they gain very little benefit if any.
Im certain a dual wield weave combined with the higher spell damage is lower than a Destro Medium weave with the non Dual wield spell damage increase, Otherwise everybody would be doing it.
Dual wield also gimps you in terms of maneuverability and positioning if your trying to weave with dual wield, Staff allows you the freedom to go anywhere and still weave DPS.Edited by DerpyShadowz on August 7, 2015 7:40AMLurking in the shadows.1 -
Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭I Highlander l wrote: »Flameheart wrote: »
Makes sense, but I wonder if there is a remarkable gap when you are able to stand in melee range and you are able to light attack weave ?
For ranged fighting you are probably right. I will see to make a skill bar preset for that, for ranged bosses at least.
Well, theres a few ways to think about that, For starters, Your staff attacks scale with you because your a magicka based DD, so they benefit from what you've primarily invested in. Dual wield attacks would be using your weapon damage stat since its a physical weapon, So they gain very little benefit if any.
Im certain a dual wield weave combined with the higher spell damage is lower than a Destro Medium weave with the non Dual wield spell damage increase, Otherwise everybody would be doing it.
Dual wield also gimps you in terms of maneuverability and positioning if your trying to weave with dual wield, Staff allows you the freedom to go anywhere and still weave DPS.
Sounds reasonable. I am not sure how many people in this game actually test builds and gear setups on a regular base by using DPS tools (there are always number crunchers, but many people go with intuition or are driven by cosmetical desires, in WoW you had a lot of great sources and forums all around the internet for such topics, here we have Tamriel Foundry and to a lesser degree Deltia, that's all...and if you aren't used to google something in english you will lose out 80% of the available information), but you are right, a staff standard attack counts as a magical attack and benefits much more from a magicka build.
Formerly I had a staff for single target too (according a build I saw and without much questioning the fact why a staff), but I had issues somehow to get my 20k health on both bars with purple buff food. So I rearranged the bars and ended up with both dualwielding.
Seems staff for single target dps and dualwield for AoE dps is the way to go. Running through a group of trash while spamming Sap Essence and blocking, leaves no time for attack weaving anyways.
May I ask for your PvE skill bar setup and your race ?Edited by Flameheart on August 7, 2015 10:19AMSometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)0 -
DerpyShadowz✭✭✭✭Flameheart wrote: »I Highlander l wrote: »Flameheart wrote: »
Makes sense, but I wonder if there is a remarkable gap when you are able to stand in melee range and you are able to light attack weave ?
For ranged fighting you are probably right. I will see to make a skill bar preset for that, for ranged bosses at least.
Well, theres a few ways to think about that, For starters, Your staff attacks scale with you because your a magicka based DD, so they benefit from what you've primarily invested in. Dual wield attacks would be using your weapon damage stat since its a physical weapon, So they gain very little benefit if any.
Im certain a dual wield weave combined with the higher spell damage is lower than a Destro Medium weave with the non Dual wield spell damage increase, Otherwise everybody would be doing it.
Dual wield also gimps you in terms of maneuverability and positioning if your trying to weave with dual wield, Staff allows you the freedom to go anywhere and still weave DPS.
Sounds reasonable. I am not sure how many people in this game actually test builds and gear setups on a regular base by using DPS tools (there are always number crunchers, but many people go with intuition or are driven by cosmetical desires), but you are right, a staff standard attack counts as a magical attack and benefits much more from a magicka build.
Formerly I had a staff for single target too (according a build I saw and without much questioning the fact why a staff), but I had issues somehow to get my 20k health on both bars with purple buff food. So I rearranged the bars and ended up with both dualwielding.
Seems staff for single target dps and dualwield for AoE dps is the way to go. Running through a group of trash while spamming Sap Essence and blocking, leaves no time for attack weaving anyways.
Absolutely without a doubt Dual Wield for AOE Situations ^^Lurking in the shadows.0 -
chevalierknight✭✭✭Idk if this has been mentioned yet or not but the final passive in DW makes it so swords give you more damage. THAT is where you are getting the extra spell damage.chevalierknight wrote: »
I am wrong? So equiping two swords does not increase your spell damage anymore?
https://youtu.be/klrNfo340hs
The passive gives ABILTYS not just spells MORE damage not spell POWER holding two weapons gives you more SPELL POWER you dont need any of the dw passive TO GET the spell POWER got it now? i shouldnt even care just hate people spreding misinformation
Hhhhaaahhhaa even in the vid you linked he had the dw spell power before getting the passive you didnt watch the vid you linked come on bro thanks for helping mmmaah he even said in the vid two time "more spell power with no points in the dw passives thats right zero point in passives" maybe double check what you link im waiting for a sorry reekoEdited by chevalierknight on August 8, 2015 2:16AM0 -
Reeko✭✭✭✭chevalierknight wrote: »Idk if this has been mentioned yet or not but the final passive in DW makes it so swords give you more damage. THAT is where you are getting the extra spell damage.chevalierknight wrote: »
I am wrong? So equiping two swords does not increase your spell damage anymore?https://youtu.be/klrNfo340hs
I said the passive does not give you the spell power as i had it before getting that passive not that dw does not give spell power so read first qq later
You sir, make no sense. You just contradicted yourself! Maybe double check the way you word things next time?0 -
chevalierknight✭✭✭chevalierknight wrote: »Idk if this has been mentioned yet or not but the final passive in DW makes it so swords give you more damage. THAT is where you are getting the extra spell damage.chevalierknight wrote: »
I am wrong? So equiping two swords does not increase your spell damage anymore?https://youtu.be/klrNfo340hs
I said the passive does not give you the spell power as i had it before getting that passive not that dw does not give spell power so read first qq later
You sir, make no sense. You just contradicted yourself! Maybe double check the way you word things next time?
No i didnt mybe you should try a non english forum if you're having problems understanding english theres an option at the top of the page. dw is holding two weapons a passive is a perk in the dw tree if you dont know there not the same its ok spell power and spell damage are not the same
I edited the older post really simple for youEdited by chevalierknight on August 8, 2015 2:30AM0 -
Reeko✭✭✭✭Ok ok. After you edit and reword your post several times, yes i see what you were trying to say now. I am man enough to admit that. I will not apologize, however, because you failed at trying to explain yourself in the first place when you simply stated, "you're wrong". The point i was making was that DW swords increase your spell power and is that not what the video shows? Only thing i was wrong about was the fact that it was ONLY due to the passive. Again, i can admit to that. But if you want an, "i'm sorry," you will not get that from me. Maybe next time don't be a little 12 yr old jerk about it aye?0
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chevalierknight✭✭✭Ok ok. After you edit and reword your post several times, yes i see what you were trying to say now. I am man enough to admit that. I will not apologize, however, because you failed at trying to explain yourself in the first place when you simply stated, "you're wrong". The point i was making was that DW swords increase your spell power and is that not what the video shows? Only thing i was wrong about was the fact that it was ONLY due to the passive. Again, i can admit to that. But if you want an, "i'm sorry," you will not get that from me. Maybe next time don't be a little 12 yr old jerk about it aye?
You point was not dw gives spell power it was the passive is why dw gives the power making both points wrong
And my full comment was not just "you're wrong" it was "you're wrong i had the spell power before i got the passive" so i did explain my self you just didint read past you're wrong it seemsEdited by chevalierknight on August 8, 2015 3:32AM0 -
Reeko✭✭✭✭I ment did i not just say i was wrong about the DW passive being the reason DW increases spell power? I don't even know why this is still going lol i admitted to being wrong about it and not understanding your jibberish at first! You won internet congrats! Let it go.1
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the defending point that zos uses when they explain why this is so. Is that dual wield is melee based over staff wich is ranged and so it provides bigger risk to be melee, but as a sorc, my crystal fragment is still as ranged as before regardless of staff or melee weapon, but with a melee weapon my crysta fragment hits harder then if I had a staff....I personally dont understand their reasoning.
It makes absolutely no sense. There is no reasoning. They're making a poor assumption that when you're dual-wielding, you're actually using those two weapons for melee, but there's no reason at all that should be the case. There are plenty of ranged spells in the class and guild lines. I can't fathom why they'd defend this design decision.
The entire problem is basing spell damage on the damage a weapon does. Why on earth would that be the case? How well a sword can cut off someone's head has literally no bearing whatsoever on the character's magic abilities. If you're using a better sword, you already have a bonus - the sword itself does more damage. If you're dual-wielding swords, those two swords are going to do more physical damage than one staff. That's perfect; if you want the increased damage of two swords, you have to live with getting up close and using melee attacks. To gain the advantage (more weapon damage), you have to deal with a corresponding disadvantage (needing to get within melee range to use it).
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ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »2) These dual wielders are *not* engaging targets up close and are in more danger, rather they are using overload spamming and using their spells from a distance.
Can only speak for myself as a nb and not a sorc but my main bar with dual swords is for up close and personal...concealed weapon, cloak and cripple. Going to add Lotus Fan in there come 2.1
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've always hated this because it makes staff users feel like they've been gimped. On top of that, you've got all these gimmicky min-max builds running around with dual swords that they never actually use.
I always figured this was just a bug they didn't have time to fix because of the endless Console Launch, but then Eric went on ESO Live and gave a kind of half-baked explanation that didn't really make sense to me.
Edited by Emma_Overload on August 10, 2015 5:20PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »2) These dual wielders are *not* engaging targets up close and are in more danger, rather they are using overload spamming and using their spells from a distance.
Can only speak for myself as a nb and not a sorc but my main bar with dual swords is for up close and personal...concealed weapon, cloak and cripple. Going to add Lotus Fan in there come 2.1
At least this kind of makes since. But it's silly that when you get Jesus-Beamed, crystal fragged, or overloaded, it's from melee weapon users that have no intention of being closer than 27 meters to their target.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dw Does not have *** back/stunsSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0
