Huge undocumented buff to damage shields

Fat_Cat45

On the current live version of the game, if a player is wearing a set with a "% chance when hit" set bonus (such as Malubeth or Bloodspawn) then any hit against an active damage shield has a 0% chance of triggering the set effect. Only until the shield is depleted and the damage is applied to your health pool can the percent trigger chance work properly.

On the PTS, those same sets with "% chance when hit" will work through a damage shield. So now Bloodspawn, Malubeth, and others will trigger while a shield is active.

I do not know if this was a long outstanding bug with those sets and damage shields, or an actual change which wasn't written down. However I feel as if it was actually an undocumented buff because of the new set for "20% chance when hit to gain 760 stamina". It's possible a shield was stopping that set from triggering because the amount of damage passed through a block was going into a damage shield.

But now I've been testing Bloodspawn with my max magicka build sorc. It's been amazing, especially with a still strong 16k Conjured Ward on PTS. I get ultimate back much faster in 1vX situations, enough to have a meteor back almost 15% faster at all times.

Naphariel

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

"20% chance when hit to gain 760 stamina"

Pretty sure there should be "while blocking" in there somewhere.
Does getting hit through a shield count as blocking?

Fat_Cat45

Naphariel wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

"20% chance when hit to gain 760 stamina"

Pretty sure there should be "while blocking" in there somewhere.
Does getting hit through a shield count as blocking?

That's right actually, it is 20% while blocking.

And I don't think a hit absorbed by a shield counts as a block, but maybe it was bugged and a blocked attack is overridden by a shield? So that set wouldn't trigger on live client since the trigger chance is 0% because the small amount of damage through a block still is absorbed by the damage shield

Cuddler

On Live, this bug goes both ways, i.e. it affects procs that the shield caster would normally benefit from. For instance, if you have an active shield, the 5-piece bonus on the Desert Rose set does not proc, nor does the Heavy Armour Constitution passive.

I am going to test Constitution on PTS later today.

Armitas

Does block still consume stamina with shields up?

I reported both of those issues about 4 months ago ingame. Sure does take a long time.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

I would say this is how it should work and since it works both ways it's neither a nerf nor a buff

Emma_Overload

Cuddler wrote: »

On Live, this bug goes both ways, i.e. it affects procs that the shield caster would normally benefit from. For instance, if you have an active shield, the 5-piece bonus on the Desert Rose set does not proc, nor does the Heavy Armour Constitution passive.

I am going to test Constitution on PTS later today.

WOW, that would be AWESOME if Desert Rose worked for Sorcs again! I'll test it later, too.

Emma_Overload

UPDATE:

OK, I tested Desert Rose thoroughly on the PTS, and I'm afraid the news is BAD.

1) The Desert Rose 5 pc. bonus does NOT proc when your Ward is up. Ever.

2) The Desert Rose set got NERFED so that it's nearly useless and underperforms Seducer by a mile:

Ipsius

If "when hit" effects work when shields are up, can you please verify whether "on hit" effects work on TARGETS with a damage shield up? For the longest time, on-hit abilities like Siphoning Attacks would not proc if the target has a damage shield.

Maulkin

"when hit" is different to "when taking damage". Otherwise they would have used the same expression.

The way i see it the former applies to any hit you receive either on your HP bar or your Wards, whereas the latter applies only when your HP bar moves.

As for the "buff", it was infinitely better for the shield caster when nothing proc'ed on wards. A bunch of CC effects were not applied simply because you had wards. If you wanna classify the change in a positive or negative light, it's more of a nerf than a buff for the shield caster.

But strictly speaking it's neither a buff nor a nerf, but simply a fix that was long overdue.

Joy_Division

I'm pretty sure this has always been the case.

I know Valkyn for example never procced on a shield user even if they were suffering dot effects from the few skills that inflicted DoTs on shield users (such as unstable flame).

The game generally does not recognize when a shielded user gets hit. For instance the destructive reach spell will not apply its CC effect or the DoT cs a shielded user and if I recall correctly, the siphon spirit spell is also compeltely neutralized by a damage shield.

We can argue semantics and whether or not it is logical that a ward or shield ought to bloc effects. Just be aware that if you take the position that hitting shields should not count as a hit, you are inviting a game that has inconsistent mechanics (why does unstable flame and burning breathe "work" on shielded users but destructive reach does not) and titling the balance even more in favor of shield users (they get free CC immunity and have the power to bloc opponent's procs, something that currently a non-shielded player cannot do).

In general I dislike inconsistency and believe such distinctions make balancing even more a nightmare than it already is and thus shield users should be be afforded these additional (and undocumented) defenses.

Fat_Cat45

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UPDATE:

OK, I tested Desert Rose thoroughly on the PTS, and I'm afraid the news is BAD.

1) The Desert Rose 5 pc. bonus does NOT proc when your Ward is up. Ever.

2) The Desert Rose set got NERFED so that it's nearly useless and underperforms Seducer by a mile:

Well it's probably a specific condition for the set. Desert Rose is "When taking damage", so I assume it really means when your health is lowered by a damage source. Because with a shield up you 'technically' take damage, but you're really not 'taking damage' to your character's health

Fat_Cat45

Ipsius wrote: »

If "when hit" effects work when shields are up, can you please verify whether "on hit" effects work on TARGETS with a damage shield up? For the longest time, on-hit abilities like Siphoning Attacks would not proc if the target has a damage shield.

I might be able to test that later. However I'll need some people from the different alliance. The group of people i've been testing pts with are all Daggerfall

Fat_Cat45

Joy_Division wrote: »

The game generally does not recognize when a shielded user gets hit. For instance the destructive reach spell will not apply its CC effect or the DoT cs a shielded user and if I recall correctly, the siphon spirit spell is also compeltely neutralized by a damage shield.
.

The buff here is not that some effects and/or sets did not trigger when the shield user was attacked, like your valkyn example, it's that sets worn by the shield user can trigger now (the one being attacked). Like how I mentioned Bloodspawn and Malubeth. They're both defensive sets which require getting hit to proc. On the current live client the procs do not occur if your damage shield takes the hits, only your health pool taking the hit can proc the items.

So on PTS, a shield getting hit will now proc your defensive sets like Bloodspawn and Malubeth. It does not need to be solely your health pool anymore.

glavius

On hit effects still don't proc (tested with elemental drain and siphon spirit)

Ipsius

glavius wrote: »

On hit effects still don't proc (tested with elemental drain and siphon spirit)

Hmm... I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, I'm glad damage shield will be crittable soon. On the other, should shielded players still be mostly immune to CC effects and on-hit effects from enemy players? I can't tell if that's a fair trade for zero-mitigation or not. What do you all think?

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UPDATE:

OK, I tested Desert Rose thoroughly on the PTS, and I'm afraid the news is BAD.

1) The Desert Rose 5 pc. bonus does NOT proc when your Ward is up. Ever.

2) The Desert Rose set got NERFED so that it's nearly useless and underperforms Seducer by a mile:

Well it's probably a specific condition for the set. Desert Rose is "When taking damage", so I assume it really means when your health is lowered by a damage source. Because with a shield up you 'technically' take damage, but you're really not 'taking damage' to your character's health

Desert Rose doesn't work with shields; that's how it is on live. Damage is only translated into MP when it reduces your health. 2k MP per proc with a 1 second cooldown doesn't seem too shabby compared to live; I'd even consider that a buff. As it stands now (12% of incoming damage), you'd have to take an 18k hit straight to your health to get that much MP restored...

xylena

does skoria proc on shields on PTS?

it currently does NOT proc on live, along with many other abilities that are completely nullified by shields

Ipsius

Another thing to add to the list of effects that shields nullify. I surely hope that's on the Dev's list of things to fix. I'm finishing up the ESO live from last Friday and they mentioned crits on shields, but not anything else (so far).

Cuddler

Constitution still does not proc on the PTS when I have a shield up, so no change from Live.

Fat_Cat45

Cuddler wrote: »

Constitution still does not proc on the PTS when I have a shield up, so no change from Live.

In my opinion since it is a 4 second cooldown I personally prefer it to only trigger from damage to health. Because a lot of procs would be with a shield active and 100% health, thus putting it on cooldown when you could actually take health damage a second later.

But then the drawback is that you won't get healed if you shield after taking the health damage