There are definately macro users

FriedEggSandwich

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Stop necro'ing old threads for the sake of Talos.

lol I didn't even notice, there are so many of these threads pop up it's presence seemed highly plausible.

AzraelKrieg

Indeed there are. And wasn't so much to you my Fried friend. It seems all the thread necros are from new users who don't notice when the last post was made

Holycannoli

You sure it wasn't a macro slice? Sometimes there's lag when someone crit rushes and they can "queue" other skills while it's delayed, then when crit rush finally hits everything else hits all at once. There's video of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYdQqcmZtMo

There's also cheat engine but that doesn't sound like it.

Kas

imho macros in the sense of automated keyboard/mouse input (e.g. via special software for gaming peripherals) can't do much of the frightening stuff. however, i'm very sceptical about ZOS' own add-on API. In particular, there is a certain add-on that allows crafting multiple items of the same kind at a time. i don't use this anymore because of how frightening it works, but i know that MANY players still do and further if you look at the code, I don't think you can argue that the add-on API is made for such things:
if you chain craft, say 25potions you take significantly less time (he would finish around 15 in that time, i guess) that any player would need for that by either spamming or looking for perfect timings on pressing r. this just shouldn't be the case. there HAVE to be the same cooldowns for manual user input and automation - if not, automation has to wait longer not shorter.

i have no experience with combat macros other than i could manually outdps people in pve who admitted using their keyboard-vendor software in TS. further, i pvp and duel a lot and thankfully, I have never had the feeling described in the original post.

either way, they should just detect and ban all kinds of macros. just launch an open challenge at some AI conference. researchers throughout the whole world will compete for super little price money and the fame associated with it. i'm fairly certain that someone would come up with a model to distinguish series of input between human and automated. that model would be very useful for automated flagging and discover a smaller and better subset of players than player-reports and thus flag those cases for efficient manual investigation. if not - at least ban all sequences with the same exact timings on input (down to milliseconds). sure, that's easy to avoid by crafty cheaters, but a message is still sent if players actually get banned for macros

lohworm

Kas wrote: »

either way, they should just detect and ban all kinds of macros.

Should they ban RP macros like "type /dancedunmer" or "type /cheers" too ?
Should they ban social macros like "type /g5 hello guildies" too ?

Kas

lohworm wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

either way, they should just detect and ban all kinds of macros.

Should they ban RP macros like "type /dancedunmer" or "type /cheers" too ?
Should they ban social macros like "type /g5 hello guildies" too ?

jup, for 3hours or something and 1-3days on repeated offence. unless they finally consider them allowed, give the players in-game means of creating them (e.g. DAoC like), and state that officially. That their TOS is pretty vague and strange w.r.t. such things sure is a problem. just not enforcing it altogether is a much bigger one

KenaPKK

Macros can't do anything your own hands can't do because of the 1s global cooldown. If kids want to take shortcuts, whatever.

Avenias

pppontus wrote: »

I still don't get it, I have never never never never ever ever ever ever seen one of these threads come with any sort of proof or even the slightest indication that it would ever be possible to cast abilities any faster with macros than without? Out of the 1 gazillion people who have to cry CHEAT whenever they lose, why hasn't a single one of you stepped up to record a video of your superspeed attacking with a macro just to show that it's possible?

I've been playing this game since it launched in PvP and PvE and I've never even seen an indication that a macro would be particularly bad, I would never use one but sure, I've heard of people who use macros to dodge roll in between every attack and sure - it's cheesy as ***.. but all you people who pretend that someone did 95 hits on you in one second - I'm sorry you either just sucked too bad, your computer froze or the game lagged to *** which it does all the time anyway.

You wouldn't believe how many of these threads I've asked for just some sort of indication that it's not all just made up in your heads about "macro spammers" or whatever, I never get it.. why? Why isn't it ever proven? Hm...... think for yourself.

You can animation cancel the *** much you want, you still won't be casting another ability within the "GCD"

Its cos ur living under a rock

Sharee

KenaPKK wrote: »

Macros can't do anything your own hands can't do because of the 1s global cooldown.

Technically you are correct, but the Deep Blue chess computer can't do anything that a human chess player couldn't, either - doesn't mean secretly using a chess computer program to help you win at a human tournament is not giving you an unfair advantage.

JudahXBL

Just wanna throw this out there. For those saying macros aren't possible on consoles, Google "Titan One". It's a device that makes controllers programmable and lets console users use a mouse and keyboard, which can also be programmed.

I have one, but only use it for racing games.

Sad thing is, GameStop is bundling them with X1 and PS4 controllers now using the slogan "Up Your Game".

Asata

I'll just leave this here:

Asata wrote: »

Well, the entire current state of PvP is pretty broken right now. Crit rush, viper, light attack, dizzying swing, heavy attack, light attack, some dagger attack, heavy attack. That all happens in about half a second to a second at most. I don't know what's wrong with ZOS that they don't consider animation canceling an exploit. When it's to the point that a single person exploiting animation canceling can attack someone 8 times in under a second in the time it would take the other person to even use 1 skill without animation canceling... the game is broken.

It would be real easy to fix. Consider each skill use as a casting time and if that cast is interrupted either by an enemy or by the user themselves then the cast does not go through. If that is so mystifying that the developers can't figure out how to do away with it then something is seriously wrong with their level of competence, which I don't at all doubt with what we've seen for over the past month.

If it's not animation canceling greatsword users with viper it's storm knight tanks. That set is so broken, what the F. Here's a typical death in PvP:


4 of those 5 attacks are armor set procs. That is PvP now. Broken armor sets and animation canceling. The storm knight set by the way procs all the time and seems to proc not just off of magicka attacks and when it does proc it kills everything around you. There are actually groups going in now as tanks with storm knight + viper and just tearing everyone up. Can't kill them and their armors are so OP that they kill everyone for them.

Macro or not, animation canceling is an exploit whether ZOS refuses to acknowledge it or not, and it needs to be fixed.

DschiPeunt

Asata wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:

Asata wrote: »

Well, the entire current state of PvP is pretty broken right now. Crit rush, viper, light attack, dizzying swing, heavy attack, light attack, some dagger attack, heavy attack. That all happens in about half a second to a second at most. I don't know what's wrong with ZOS that they don't consider animation canceling an exploit. When it's to the point that a single person exploiting animation canceling can attack someone 8 times in under a second in the time it would take the other person to even use 1 skill without animation canceling... the game is broken.

It would be real easy to fix. Consider each skill use as a casting time and if that cast is interrupted either by an enemy or by the user themselves then the cast does not go through. If that is so mystifying that the developers can't figure out how to do away with it then something is seriously wrong with their level of competence, which I don't at all doubt with what we've seen for over the past month.

If it's not animation canceling greatsword users with viper it's storm knight tanks. That set is so broken, what the F. Here's a typical death in PvP:


4 of those 5 attacks are armor set procs. That is PvP now. Broken armor sets and animation canceling. The storm knight set by the way procs all the time and seems to proc not just off of magicka attacks and when it does proc it kills everything around you. There are actually groups going in now as tanks with storm knight + viper and just tearing everyone up. Can't kill them and their armors are so OP that they kill everyone for them.

Macro or not, animation canceling is an exploit whether ZOS refuses to acknowledge it or not, and it needs to be fixed.

Good to know, that you make the decisions now and not the people, who actually develop this game.

Kas

KenaPKK wrote: »

Macros can't do anything your own hands can't do because of the 1s global cooldown. If kids want to take shortcuts, whatever.

that's true for stuff like mouse-marcos. but have you ever tried that "multi craft" add-on? you'd think the craft global cooldown would apply to it as well. yet, ....

i don't know if this is also possible with combat, but i wouldn't rule it out (i.e. macros+add-ons using the add-on api). NEITHER DO I HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE IT IS DONE. I don't have problems with enemies doing impossible things.

AnviOfVai

Random Quesiton, is it possible to be hit with two ultimate's? I was in PVP and a dude use the meteor ultimate and then switched instantly to bats. When I looked at my *death sheet* it showed the dudes name twice for both ultimate's... slightly worrying.

Also I thought dizziling swing was fixed. its not. once your knocked back from it you cant get up at all. ):

JudahXBL

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

Random Quesiton, is it possible to be hit with two ultimate's? I was in PVP and a dude use the meteor ultimate and then switched instantly to bats. When I looked at my *death sheet* it showed the dudes name twice for both ultimate's... slightly worrying.

Also I thought dizziling swing was fixed. its not. once your knocked back from it you cant get up at all. ):

Maybe he was using Decisive on his weapons?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Kas wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Macros can't do anything your own hands can't do because of the 1s global cooldown. If kids want to take shortcuts, whatever.

that's true for stuff like mouse-marcos. but have you ever tried that "multi craft" add-on? you'd think the craft global cooldown would apply to it as well. yet, ....

i don't know if this is also possible with combat, but i wouldn't rule it out (i.e. macros+add-ons using the add-on api). NEITHER DO I HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE IT IS DONE. I don't have problems with enemies doing impossible things.

I have used and do use the multicraft addon. I havent seen it do anything that makes me think it is bypassing the normal time it takes to make an item. Maybe you got the suped up version.

rotaugen454

Isn't using an MMO mouse an "unfair" advantage over people who don't have one on PC? Like Macros, they are a hardware related item that lets you be more efficient. Same goes for people with faster internet, or a better computer. Some people argue that anyone could use a macro simply by buying the right mouse so everyone should be able to, but not everyone is going to spend the money on one. I don't think you can stop people from using better equipment, but they still have to push all the buttons to use it. Macros don't speed things up, but not making mistakes and always completing everything you can do within a set time period is an advantage. It's how much of an advantage that I wonder about.

With all the talk about GCDs and such, I'd be curious to see if anyone tested on PTS against mobs or bosses macro vs non-macro over time to see if it makes a large difference in DPS by having the ability to not make mistakes in rotation. I have noticed that when I get tired, I make mistakes in my rotation and my DPS drops a bit but the difference isn't huge unless I am so tired that I start button mashing in a panic. In Cyrodiil, I have some rotations that I might use, but I have to be ready to modify what I am doing at a moment's notice so a pre-programmed response could be bad.

JackDaniell

OK so it is a tad concering to hear some impressions of game mechanics, but in short, macros can make a bad player decent but will never make a good player better then they are without macros.

Animation canceling does NOT allow you to bypass the global cool down in between skill casts (~1 seccond), it does allow you to TIME your attacks at very specific points as well as lock your attacks in right at the one second threshold.

Macros let you predefine a perfect cancel, however, as a longtime pvp player I can promise you predefining your casts is a great way to end up dead. THEY WILL NOT LET YOU BYPASS THE GLOBAL SKILL COOLDOWN.

Consol vs PC, not sure what to tell you. Console players are lower level and more inexperienced on average simply because they haven't had access to the game as long. You can Marco with a gaming contoller on console if you like.

Check this video out, it explains animation canceling in depth exactly how it works and how to do it. It's all about feel practice and timing, not spam and cheats.

https://youtu.be/wWHMCNFC4F0

ZOS_Ragnar

We have closed this thread as it recently resurfaced. Old threads can contain outdated information that can cause confusion when they turn back up. Feel free to create a new discussion if you can not find a recent thread on the same topic. If you are looking to discuss cheating and exploits the official thread can be found here. If you are looking to discuss animation canceling there is a thread here that is not too old.