Nightblade Fear

Mawgusta

k2blader wrote: »

It's not hard to imagine a person of any class being beaten by 3 NBs using fear..

3 people fighting 3 NBs using fear-- I dunno-- could go either way.

This entire conversation is ridiculous.

You don't know it could go either way?

How about three Templars? Javelin, Jabs... You're either able to perma block or youre stunned.
How about 3 DKs? Who's going to proc the first lava lash to put the person on their back.
How about 3 Sorc? Crystal shards.

What is this entire topic about.. Its a rabbits hole man. 3 sorc, 3 dks, 3 Templars are going do the same thing to her stamina..

k2blader

Mawgusta wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

It's not hard to imagine a person of any class being beaten by 3 NBs using fear..

3 people fighting 3 NBs using fear-- I dunno-- could go either way.

This entire conversation is ridiculous.

You don't know it could go either way?

How about three Templars? Javelin, Jabs... You're either able to perma block or youre stunned.
How about 3 DKs? Who's going to proc the first lava lash to put the person on their back.
How about 3 Sorc? Crystal shards.

What is this entire topic about.. Its a rabbits hole man. 3 sorc, 3 dks, 3 Templars are going do the same thing to her stamina..

I know. I was hoping my post would have gotten that through.. Sometimes I try for the subtle effect. :-P

Lava_Croft

Please fix the Crowd Control in this game, ZOS.

EatUrNumNumz

Aunatar wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO you know how it goes here I have a V14 sorc (my main), a V14 DK and a V7 NB.. I had to practice a lot to master the first two classes, but even if I am pretty noob at playing a stamina char in general playing as NB makes me a very good player.. there is something wrong.
What I don't understand is people saying this happens because different classes have different playstyles, then NBs are ok as they are atm. Like NB should kill and cloak away, other classes shall die, eventually.
I still don't get why NBs got all these buffs in 1.7, honestly.

What "buffs" did Nightblade actually get this update that is useful? Please elaborate.

AllPlayAndNoWork

Xeniph wrote: »

I'll ask again, who the hell doesn't break fear?

I have only heard, a long while ago, that fear wouldn't give an immunity if you didn't break it. I personally have never seen this, in having used on me, or using it on someone.

But my initial question still stands. CC break is the counter to hard cc's. Why would you not use it and give yourself 6 seconds of total cc immunity?

If as a PvP caster, you can't reliably cc break every 6 seconds, you need to rethink your build, playstyle or reaction times.

That is it in a nutshell. Build problems.

1) A DK stands there absorbing 10+ guys damage while spamming flame lash / green dragon blood and inhale (that's not OP)
2) A Sorc Spams Hardened ward / Harness magicka / Healing ward and has 3 bars (overload) to hit from (that's not OP)
3) A Templar spams Blazing shield / Radiant destruction / breath of life (that's not OP)
4) NB fears max 3 guys (they don't break it - OMG soooo OP) (A simple potion or an armour skill will stop you being feared)

Too many people QQing instead of thinking about their build more getting ZoS to do their work for them by nerfing stuff they cant handle. Everyone wanting an easy ride to the top.

Rojnaar

Fear should be broken upon taking damage. Just makes sense.

Zsymon

Why do people call OP anytime a tactic or ability is effective?

Effective =! OP.

NBs are incredibly easy to kill on PTS, stamina NBs have no survivability what so ever, and magicka NBs can just be locked down by detection potions, so no they can't Cloak away.

Baphomet

Fear has been OP for a looong time. Non-blockable CC that affects 3 targets and can be spammed? That's a no-no.

If it stays, give luminous shards and blazing spear the ability to disorient/stun three targets too, and thus giving us a better anti-zerg fearbomb AoE mechanism.

Aunatar

Xeniph wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO you know how it goes here I have a V14 sorc (my main), a V14 DK and a V7 NB.. I had to practice a lot to master the first two classes, but even if I am pretty noob at playing a stamina char in general playing as NB makes me a very good player.. there is something wrong.
I still don't get why NBs got all these buffs in 1.7, honestly.

I'd be interested in these buffs you speak of.

Cloak is working the same as it in in 1.6
Stamina regen was nerfed by 15% ( while magicka was buffed by the same)
Agony cast time reduced to 0 (on a pretty useless ability)
Siphoning strikes change was an overall nerf.
Spectral bow proc buffed by 3 light attacks.

So I guess you are right, spectral bow and 15% magicka regen are a lot of buffs. /sarcasm off

First, siphoning strikes did not get a nerf, imo. They removed the power dmg reduction, how could that be a nerf? It's also no longer a toggle.
Cloak is not working as 1.6. Sometimes it happens that your opponent can see you, but their single target skills will miss you; however, ZOS said they are working to fix it before 1.7 goes live. Detection potions don't work against the skill too.
Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): Increased the initial hit damage for this ability.
Drain Power: Increased the damage of this ability by approximately 20%.
Refreshing Shadows (passive): Adjusted this ability from 15/30% Stamina recovery to 7/15% Stamina, Health and Magicka recovery. (Yes, we were talking about the class in general, not only about your stamina character, this is a nice buff imho.)

The point of my post, however, was different: if any other class got some nerfs, why giving buffs to nightblades? I just don't get it, they didn't need them. Plus, I would be ok with cloak working as patch notes intend, but please increase the base cost so stamina users cannot use it 12 times in a row! (My V7 stamblade can use it 9 times in a row in combat....) How can you speak of BE then?? And I would be surprised if every nightnlade inside Cyrodiil wasn't playing the class because it's FOTM, but only because they like to die of their poor weak class.

Bashev

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I'll ask again, who the hell doesn't break fear?

I have only heard, a long while ago, that fear wouldn't give an immunity if you didn't break it. I personally have never seen this, in having used on me, or using it on someone.

But my initial question still stands. CC break is the counter to hard cc's. Why would you not use it and give yourself 6 seconds of total cc immunity?

If as a PvP caster, you can't reliably cc break every 6 seconds, you need to rethink your build, playstyle or reaction times.

That is it in a nutshell. Build problems.

1) A DK stands there absorbing 10+ guys damage while spamming flame lash / green dragon blood and inhale (that's not OP)
2) A Sorc Spams Hardened ward / Harness magicka / Healing ward and has 3 bars (overload) to hit from (that's not OP)
3) A Templar spams Blazing shield / Radiant destruction / breath of life (that's not OP)
4) NB fears max 3 guys (they don't break it - OMG soooo OP) (A simple potion or an armour skill will stop you being feared)

Too many people QQing instead of thinking about their build more getting ZoS to do their work for them by nerfing stuff they cant handle. Everyone wanting an easy ride to the top.

Did you check that this is a topic for PTS. Most of the arguments that you wrote show me that you are either a troll or you dont know what are you talking about.

Stalwart385

Low stam is much more common with no stam regen while blocking and dodge roll nerf. Once you have low stam expect to be fear spammed over and over. I dont see much of an issue one on one. Its when a bunch of mobs/players are around and one block quickly drops your stam out.

With the hard blocking nerf are all these anti-blocking skills still needed?

kaithuzar

While I'll agree to Fear being a strong ability, NB's DON"T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
Honestly....
We do the lowest damage, or maybe second to lowest...wait no templar has us beat now!
So we can cloak, which has been broken since beta & still isn't perfect as we consistently get pulled out of stealth due to "You're still casting", big deal, the game has radiant mage light, detect pots, & revealing flare which all work against us! And you can even cloak too with Invis Pots!
When have nightblades, albeit magic nb's ever been "on top" of pvp or the dmg scale? NEVER

So buff our dmg, give us god like sorc shields, give me take flight or standard in a potion, let me heal myself to max health with breath of life or spam an ability "biting jabs" which permanently interrupts anything my opponent thought of doing.

Until I get some of or any of those things, don't nerf fear pl0x.

Xeniph

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I'll ask again, who the hell doesn't break fear?

I have only heard, a long while ago, that fear wouldn't give an immunity if you didn't break it. I personally have never seen this, in having used on me, or using it on someone.

But my initial question still stands. CC break is the counter to hard cc's. Why would you not use it and give yourself 6 seconds of total cc immunity?

If as a PvP caster, you can't reliably cc break every 6 seconds, you need to rethink your build, playstyle or reaction times.

That's a decent point, but it missed the mark on the core one: every other then cc in the game gives you a 5 second immunity timer upon ending. Fear is basically a stun that sends you moving with no control of your character. However, it also is very visible as a cc effect on you, and only lasts a few seconds. It can, at times, make sense to not cc break it, on purpose. That isn't backwards : in small scale PVP, or solo, that can conserve valuable resources as other people assume you're either out of them, or not much of a threat and target someone else, as you then hit them in the back while they're being careless. So now I'll ask you : What makes you think that fear as a cc should not be granting the same five second immunity as every other hard cc (defined as one which does not break on damage, and otherwise prevents you from controlling your character unless cured or manually broken)?

Assuming that it doesn't, then I would consider that a bug and not a feature. However, I have never experienced this behavior and am around fear as a ganking NB all the time. Maybe it's because I never wait fear out as a solo player and usually the fight ends long before a second application is needed on the same target.

Bust as I said, if this indeed is happening it should be fixed.

AllPlayAndNoWork

Bashev wrote: »

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I'll ask again, who the hell doesn't break fear?

I have only heard, a long while ago, that fear wouldn't give an immunity if you didn't break it. I personally have never seen this, in having used on me, or using it on someone.

But my initial question still stands. CC break is the counter to hard cc's. Why would you not use it and give yourself 6 seconds of total cc immunity?

If as a PvP caster, you can't reliably cc break every 6 seconds, you need to rethink your build, playstyle or reaction times.

That is it in a nutshell. Build problems.

1) A DK stands there absorbing 10+ guys damage while spamming flame lash / green dragon blood and inhale (that's not OP)
2) A Sorc Spams Hardened ward / Harness magicka / Healing ward and has 3 bars (overload) to hit from (that's not OP)
3) A Templar spams Blazing shield / Radiant destruction / breath of life (that's not OP)
4) NB fears max 3 guys (they don't break it - OMG soooo OP) (A simple potion or an armour skill will stop you being feared)

Too many people QQing instead of thinking about their build more getting ZoS to do their work for them by nerfing stuff they cant handle. Everyone wanting an easy ride to the top.

Did you check that this is a topic for PTS. Most of the arguments that you wrote show me that you are either a troll or you dont know what are you talking about.

How so a troll, ? Whether the PTS or not its been like it since the start of ESO. People moan all the time about something that can be countered if they thought about their build just as little bit more but cannot be bothered to do so.

Main PvE quests are so dumded down you can finish it without having to think about it.
PvP is a mess as ZoS acceded to everyone wishes "to make things better" (remove level caps - VR levels - champion system - change this, thats OP.... ... it didn't make it better, its changed nothing... and people are still moaning about it.

The points are valid either on the PTS or live right now. There are ways to counter "OP" skills of all varieties.

I play all the classes, I prefer to play a magicka NB as my main as its the most fun, cloak still isn't fixed even on the PTS ...... but so what, Instead of moaning to get stuff nerfed I tweak my build to do something else.

Its not a troll its just being tired of all the constant nerf this change that attitude that seems to haunt the forums.
Look around where is all the positive stuff ?? It ain't there.

Dracane

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

Master_Kas

Dracane wrote: »

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

Says the sorc with a shield not affected by battlespirit My hardened ward is 10.4k IN cyrodiil with template char with lower CP that my "real" char have.

Fear is supposed to go through block, a counter.

Heard of those? Playing sorc, and whining about NB even on PTS.

L2p dracaneeeeeee

Dracane

Master_Kas wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

Says the sorc with a shield not affected by battlespirit My hardened ward is 10.4k IN cyrodiil with template char with lower CP that my "real" char have.

Fear is supposed to go through block, a counter.

Heard of those? Playing sorc, and whining about NB even on PTS.

L2p dracaneeeeeee

Dont know if block really needs a counter now with this change. But I assume, there will be permablock builds soon again.
And yes, NB is extremely strong and everyone knows it. If you disagree, L2P

Master_Kas

Dracane wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

Says the sorc with a shield not affected by battlespirit My hardened ward is 10.4k IN cyrodiil with template char with lower CP that my "real" char have.

Fear is supposed to go through block, a counter.

Heard of those? Playing sorc, and whining about NB even on PTS.

L2p dracaneeeeeee

Dont know if block really needs a counter now with this change. But I assume, there will be permablock builds soon again.
And yes, NB is extremely strong and everyone knows it. If you disagree, L2P

I don't disagree. You however disagree that sorcs are just as powerful if not more in this PTS? With shieldspam I tank people easier on my Sorc than I do on my nightblade

But you are on a vendetta to get Nightblades nerfed, while you can defend your "weak" class xD ok

Edit: dont think you need to tell me L2P btw. I can face you with whatever class you want if you wanna see who needs to L2P buut thats right you dont duel anymore.. because you lost to NBs *sigh*

Tankqull

EatUrNumNumz wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO you know how it goes here I have a V14 sorc (my main), a V14 DK and a V7 NB.. I had to practice a lot to master the first two classes, but even if I am pretty noob at playing a stamina char in general playing as NB makes me a very good player.. there is something wrong.
What I don't understand is people saying this happens because different classes have different playstyles, then NBs are ok as they are atm. Like NB should kill and cloak away, other classes shall die, eventually.
I still don't get why NBs got all these buffs in 1.7, honestly.

What "buffs" did Nightblade actually get this update that is useful? Please elaborate.

agony is nice, keeps preys from running to weird places out of your reach like fear does while still breaking block

Dracane

Master_Kas wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

Says the sorc with a shield not affected by battlespirit My hardened ward is 10.4k IN cyrodiil with template char with lower CP that my "real" char have.

Fear is supposed to go through block, a counter.

Heard of those? Playing sorc, and whining about NB even on PTS.

L2p dracaneeeeeee

Dont know if block really needs a counter now with this change. But I assume, there will be permablock builds soon again.
And yes, NB is extremely strong and everyone knows it. If you disagree, L2P

I don't disagree. You however disagree that sorcs are just as powerful if not more in this PTS? With shieldspam I tank people easier on my Sorc than I do on my nightblade

But you are on a vendetta to get Nightblades nerfed, while you can defend your "weak" class xD ok

Edit: dont think you need to tell me L2P btw. I can face you with whatever class you want if you wanna see who needs to L2P buut thats right you dont duel anymore.. because you lost to NBs *sigh*

I never made any statements about Sorc being op or not. All I say, is that people exaggerate. However I said multiple times, that it's indeed a problem currently with this damage mititgation. I agree that this needs to be adressed, because it's no fun anymore, no risk, no danger.

I've learned to handle NBs, they are my strongest enemies for sure. But the times where I am too afraid of them, is over
I still think that Sorcs AND NBs need some nerfs. But Sorc already got nerfed quite hard in this update when it comes to survivieability. We have yet to see, how the next shield nerf will affect this.

And I don't duel anymore, because I have some huge problems with myself at the moment. I don't have the mental strenght and endurance to do such things right now. Maybe after 1.7 is finally finished and I can figure everything out...
But thanks for telling me I'm weak, unskilled and unable to win against anyone I guess

Attorneyatlawl

olemanwinter wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fear should atleast be blockable.

Nonsense. A lot can be said about fear and it's ability to be broken/immunity/etc but if functions in EXACTLY the same way as Fossilize.

I've died many times to a Fossilize+X combo.

The fact that you experience less Fossilize in PvP than Fear is an indication of how few other options NB have compared to the wider variety of DK builds that function without fossilize.

IMO any discussion of making Fear blockable without also including making things like Fossilize blockable is intellectually dishonest and basically becomes a "Please nerf everyone but me" type QQ post.

No, it is not. I'd argue that saying that is in and of itself rather disingenuous as most anyone who plays pvp much ever knows better than that. Coming from someone who plays all classes and moonlights as stamina with two alts of the same classes as well, they're wildly different skills. The Fear most Nightblade players use is an aoe in melee range and instantly affects multiple targets, forcibly moves them (additionally making them very visibly cc'd) and applies a snare and outgoing damage debuff after. They can be damaged to your heart's content until and unless they cc break. Fossilize is a mid range single target cast that disorients, and applies a moderate free damage shieldto the single affected target. In a good magicka build this damage shield a dk provides, ends up on enemies at around a good 4000 Tooltip in Cyrodiil as a freebie. Then once they break out, if they bother (why dump a free shield if there's no other immediate dangrr) they are rooted but can still act including any skill in the entire game except normal basic movement. They can heal, cast, nuke, fire their bows, or anything they want including streak or other skills to move and it only lasts a couple of seconds for the root making it disregardable basically, after having already gotten a nicely sized free damage shield. It is used mainly as cc and interrupt to keep someone out of a fight briefly.

By contrast the pbaoe fear is used as free damage time while shining a jumbo neon sign by comparison, "GUYS HE IS CC'd HELP NUKE!", then only sample debuffs and not a benefit (damage shield). It used to be unable to force you t drop block if already blocking, and should be giving CC immunity upon ending. It is a very hard crowd control skill in an aoe rather than basically an interrupt/mez that gives the target a moderate defense while CC'd on a single target at that. I'd prefer especially in light of the block changes that it was blockable, and gave the basic 5 second cc immunity when not broken, versus the 7 second one you get for manually cc breaking.

In small scale PVP if you're cc breaking everything that hits you so often that you find yourself doing it every 7 (it isn't six) seconds or so, you're not only wasting valuable resources and tactical play, but also sacrificing other stats in your build to facilitate a less skilled playstyle relying on brute forcing being CC'd rather than avoidance, positioning, line of sight, prediction of enemies' actions to head off possible moves such as pre-hot'ing or shielding to ensure you'll live through a fear against a single enemy, and other skilled pvp gameplay . This will only become even more important in the Imperial city's terrain.

Attorneyatlawl

Baphomet wrote: »

Fear has been OP for a looong time. Non-blockable CC that affects 3 targets and can be spammed? That's a no-no.

If it stays, give luminous shards and blazing spear the ability to disorient/stun three targets too, and thus giving us a better anti-zerg fearbomb AoE mechanism.

Don't forget! It also should then not be blockable or defendable against in advance without reserving 1/3rd to 1/4th of your stamina pool as a magicka build, and it shouldn't grant cc immunity when not broken either! Oh, and lest we forget it should have an instant travel time to boot, which fossilize and shards do not (fossilize takes about 1 second to land unless in melee range).

Long story short, as an all class player: it's very obvious it is out of line with every other cc skill in the entire game in terms of power and usefulness, hands down.

olemanwinter

Dracane wrote: »

With the changes to block stamina regen, I would even dare to say, that fear should be blockable already. (not that this would help me, I dont block)
But it would help many people. Fear is too strong overall, too long CC especially.

Ah and #NBwaytooOP

What irks me is that 99% of the complains about Fear involve fixing something that is broken about Fear but instead the easiest thing to do is just go "Make it blockable".

You know, Flying blade is hitting for way too much damage on the PTS, I think they should up the cost exponentially with each throw like dodge-roll. DERP.

Attorneyatlawl

Farorin wrote: »

"Nerf fear, NB OP"

I have said it before in other threads, NBs are the easiest class to kill currently, at least for myself, just hit them with a revealing flare or some such so they can't dissapear on you, and lay into them, they don't have any other answer for it but to run, or to try and fear you, if they fear you, CC break, and continue the pursuit. If that doesn't kill the squisy SOB then and there, Rinse, repeat, and then NB dead.

This is the PTS section of the forums. A good nb player knows neither of those two options are good escapes if they're flared, and so doesn't try either of them. The good nb player then either malefic wreaths (instant, as of the 2.1 pts... Have you tried the PTS yet ? ) you and hits retreating maneuvers to get out of Los then sprints right as he hits vigor to heal himself off into the sunset to sneak, or if a magicka build, crippling grasps you and sprints, panning camera to watch if you're catching up and either malefic wreaths, crippling grasps, or both, again if he needs to continue to try to escape, if he doesn't feel re-engaging may turn out better to try and kill you or any other number of options such as ambushing you once you stop the pursuit as you just start letting g your guard down .

Gilvoth

Farorin wrote: »

"Nerf fear, NB OP"

I have said it before in other threads, NBs are the easiest class to kill currently, at least for myself, just hit them with a revealing flare or some such so they can't dissapear on you, and lay into them, they don't have any other answer for it but to run, or to try and fear you, if they fear you, CC break, and continue the pursuit. If that doesn't kill the squisy SOB then and there, Rinse, repeat, and then NB dead.

all truth.
i have been a nightblade since beta.
and the begining statement that we can drag a whole bunch of mobbs to some one and then let go and cast invisibility and the mobbs then attack others is just not true. it's imposible to do that.

Lava_Croft

I got killed by a class that has no damage shields or heals, please nerf them!.

timidobserver

Mawgusta wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I play with 13k stam and with the current mechanics its still not enough when fighting 3 nightblades all using fear. If Templars have to be nerfed based on the arguments here so should fear.

You do realize every class has a way to kill your stamina, right? You pretty much have to break something every 6 seconds in a PvP fight. That's what this entire PvP thing is about. Making someone use their resources so that they can't block, roll, or break anymore and become a free kill. I would rather face a fear every 6 seconds. Than a petrify, into a root, into a petrify repeat.

No think about your class. What skills do you have to make them break, roll, or block? Those are what you need to be using and timing so that you can try to deplete your targets resources before they deplete yours.


Edit: If all 3 are using fear it's a waste. You're immune to the first one after you break it.

I'll take any CC in the game over Fear just because fear is the only CC in the game that regularly ignores my CC breaks and occasionally, even after the fix, still drops me through the map.

Merlin13KAGL

Sentinel wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fear should atleast be blockable.

If it's blockable, then it'll almost be a buff now with the changes to blocking. Fear someone while they're blocking, they can't drop it during the fear, spam em with light attacks, or with a weave. Say goodbye to your stamina.

Fear is all right as it is. The only changes that need to be made are to have CCs be more responsive in high intensity situations.

@Sentinel , CC's or CC breaks? It's not an issue of resources most of the time, it's an issue on nonrespsonsiveness (game, that is) when trying to CC break, that I experience.

I can insta-break almost every other CC, but fear seems to take that precious second or two, quite often. I've experienced this when my stamina bar is at 100%.

Aquanova

Fear ain't OP. It's a necessity at the moment for stam NBs to survive in 1.7 with the NERF to dodge roll. As i have stated in other posts, it seems to be blockable now. I've seen ppl block it, or at least they were immune to it. ZOS, please this skill alone with all the changes you've made to block and dodge roll.

Merlin13KAGL

Aquanova wrote: »

Fear ain't OP. It's a necessity at the moment for stam NBs to survive in 1.7 with the NERF to dodge roll. As i have stated in other posts, it seems to be blockable now. I've seen ppl block it, or at least they were immune to it. ZOS, please this skill alone with all the changes you've made to block and dodge roll.

It's more likely immunity, vice block.

I suspect this will lead to rise of the Immovable's again, which is highly disappointing for completely separate reasons.