Itemization Feedback

Deltia

I'm disappointed about the new two piece undaunted sets along with everything else we've discovered with new Imperial City armor/weapons (items HERE).

Video
http://youtu.be/1QF0HbY84jo

Lord Wardens - While the massive boost in spell resist is great, I think it needs armor to be valuable for all situations. Yes some bosses use spell damage as their main forum, but weapon damage as well (isn't that the Manikora)? The visual effect is stunning don't get me wrong, but the need to only use this in specific situation is a bit lack luster. Please think about adding armor to the mix (still rocking day one Engine Guardian).

Molag Kena's - To be completely honest, I feel like this is poor design. Who really wants to light attack three times to have their abilities cost 50% more? Yes, you do a lot more damage, but the time it takes to do 3 light attacks you can do two biting jab weaves and produce way more DPS not to mention better sustained. Once again, the active effect looks spectacular but it's not going to be useful in high DPS situations (if I'm wrong please tell me as our test have shown this).

The idea behind this set is great, trigger a burst of damage for key moments, but for a six second proc with three light attacks doesn't add up.

FIX 1 - Make the duration last 12 seconds or so. This would be awesome having a bunch of DPS charge up during a boss burn phase and nuke it down.

FIX 2 - Make the light attacks NOT consecutive. Make it 3 light attacks with 10 seconds with a cooldown of X. Now you can do normal DPS rotation and get better results.

Additionally, besides the black rose, I've not been impressed with any of the new armor sets. One has you doing a combination of light/heavy attacks to get an extra 1000 damage, really? We need SPELL AND WEAPON POWER!

Take the new three piece sets that add health/spell power. These still aren't better than Cyrodiil's light (IMO).

Lastly, can we get some templates that have access to the gear? That way I we don't have to spend every waking minute finding stones just to test something for a day to realize it isn't going to work for my builds. Please let us get our hands on it to see if these sets are worth taking, because as it is now, my gear is still Best in Slot and doesn't offer me a lot of incentive to play the patch.

olemanwinter

I have to say I really like the addition of the single item wep damage buff from the Molag Kena set. I'll definitely be using a piece of that in my build.

I can see using both pieces, but with my RNG luck, I'll never get the helm anyway.

60+ runs on CoH and no helm.

Joy_Division

I agree.

I don't think +6k spell resistance is "massive," especially when the protective aura is fixed and has a small area of effect. By way of comparison, bloodpsawn has the same proc rate, gives me both armor and spell resistance, it's effects are always on me, and I gain ultimate as well.

Molag Kena: Open to abuse - Overload spamming sorcs already do crazy DPS - these are light attacks. Also 1 piece is crazy good ... every stamina build will wear one piece (although as your pointed out, few will wear two). ZoS really likes the fact that weapon damage drops like candy on gear and I see this bias continues here. If the mutli piece set adds weapon AND spell damage, it there a particular compelling reason why the single set doesn't?

The three light attack mechanic does strike me as a DPS loss under normal circumstances. I do like the idea that ZoS in encouraging basic attacks, but the application here needs tweaking.

Dracane

I also feel like weapon damage is highly prefered by ZoS. Look how many weapon damage sets have been added and how easy it is to gain weapon crit and weapon damage.

You can reach around 5000 weapon damage, but only around 3000 spell damage when your alliance is having a good day.
And there are sooo many weapon crit sets, but only very few spell crit sets. And while most weapon damage sets have their critical on very low positions like 1 or 2, spell crit is mostly available on position 4.

olemanwinter

Dracane wrote: »

I also feel like weapon damage is highly prefered by ZoS. Look how many weapon damage sets have been added and how easy it is to gain weapon crit and weapon damage.

You can reach around 5000 weapon damage, but only around 3000 spell damage when your alliance is having a good day.

And yet the best magica abilities hit just as hard as the best stamina abilities. So, it seems like an arbitrarily unimportant number to compare.

DDuke

They should remove the "consecutive" requirement from Molag Kena to make it worth using two pieces.

Even so, 50% more cost on skills is a big drawback for some 15%~ more damage...

MrBeatDown

Most of this stuff looks like poop. It does not do you any good if you cannot sustain to use it. The drops look really weak and once all the underground bugs and exploits come to light because of this patch, lots of more folks will drop the game. I really feal like they screwed the pooch on this update.

GoodOrc

Firs of all I'm sory for my bad english and all mistypings that you weel read below, but i'm Orc this is my nature


I totaly agry with all that been sayd.

I think we need not only criticide but offer salutions.

For Lord Warden i offer add armor But reduce ammount of both.I think 4500 spell resist and armor for group is great. So we can decide ok i need more resost I wear BS and for this dung/trial/moment need to help group I wear LW. This way set will be good enaf to wear but not only choise.

For molag Kena's set I think it usseless with 2 parts and to powered as 1 part. Ewery Stam build hawe to wear 1 part + blood spawn1 part. And this way we decrease the walue of other sets (lich set now looks great, daedrot set too) but it will be worthless cos you hawe to wear "stat" sets.
Think about giving half of set weapon damage and spell damage with 1 part(or maybe give like ~600 of all three stat) and around 400sd and wd with 2 parts (in my oppinion it cannot be bigger then 5 piece Ravajer bonuse) and do 3 light/hawy (yes we do hawe hawy attaks too) like in a 3 seconds. In this way my templar, for exaple, will use it with hawy attaks to boost my damage when i'm out of resurses, my NB will use it and hawe boost all the time cos he light attak weawing allot.

And third whats up with that nerf of Walkyn Skoria? Why? Maybe it was OP but now it piece of junk. Consider to ReNerf it for a half. Its god mask for DOTers IMO.

Faulgor

I can't comment on the specific sets themselves, but I disagree with the position that these sets should be a "must have" that everybody should want. I also don't think that the weapon/spell damage > all meta should be supported further, and other options should be viable as well. The Molag Kena shoulder piece is already a no-brainer for most stamina dps builds.

IxSTALKERxI

I agree. When I first read about the Molag Kena set I didn't realise you couldn't weave to get the proc. This really limits the uses for this set and makes it impractical in most situations (unless you're a sorc ). The 1 piece of Molag set is very appealing, I think it's silly that a 1 piece bonus is more appealing than a 2 piece bonus lol.

hrothbern

The one piece bonus fits perfectly an armor set build up of 5 any + 5 ravager + 1 Molag Kena
With two handed weapon

Birdovic

Well, why does the Molag Kena Set only add weapon damage..?
This Set looks really awesome and the idea seems pretty great, its just not finished yet.

Why not start that hybrid-idea with THIS SET?
Im absolutely fine with making it hard to get, but please make it worth getting...for everyone.

My Suggestion No. 1
Why not make it like this:
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special", no drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks within 7 seconds triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 30% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 556 for 10 Seconds. This Effect has a cooldown of 15 Seconds(= resulting in minimum 5 Sec between each "Overkill-Phase")

My Suggestion No. 2
Or make it like this
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special". No drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 50% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 756 for 8 Seconds.

My Suggestion No. 3
Or make it like that
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special", no drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 50% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 800 for 8 Seconds. This Effect has a cooldown of 25 Seconds (= resulting in minimum 17 Sec between each "Overkill-Phase")

Why do it like Suggestion No.1?
- Magicka Users will make use of Spellpower, but not of Weapon damage = nobody in disadvantage
- Stamina Users will make use of Weapon Damage, but not of Spellpower = nobody in disadvantage
The word "consecutive" and the Duration make that set too situational and the timeframe to react properly to make those few seconds useful is just way too small. Also +50% Ability Cost is ALOT. By lowering the cost and adding a Cooldown we wont accidentally spam it and suck up all our ressources in a blink of an eye.

Why do it like Suggestion No.2?
- Magicka Users will make use of Spellpower, but not of Weapon damage = nobody in disadvantage
- Stamina Users will make use of Weapon Damage, but not of Spellpower = nobody in disadvantage
We keep the 3 consecutive hits for this suggestion for a simple reason: Control the right time to trigger it.
6 Seconds too short to be useful, even for a situational set.
Suggestion is without cooldown because it cant be spammed anyway.

Why do it like Suggestion No.3?
Exactly the same as Suggestion No.2 but with a cooldown this time and slightly increased Damage.
Making it even more situational can be achieved by a 25 sec cooldown, knowing you can only use this powerup once every 17 sec(including duration of the effect itself), making you think twice before light attacking 3 times in a row. To justify that cooldown, the dmg is slightly increased.


To summarize for everyone:

Suggestion No.1:
- Allrounder Set.
- Good Damage Increase (556)
- lower Ability Cost increase (30% instead 50%)
- easier to trigger the effect (7 Second timeframe for 3 light attacks)
- A Cooldown avoids spamming or sucking up all Ressources(15 Sec Cooldown: Activation every 10 Sec)
- 4 Seconds longer Duration (6sec to 10sec)

Suggestion No.2:
Situational Set.
- Great Damage Increase (756)
- Expensive Ability Cost increase (50% remains)
- Timed way to trigger the effect ( 3 consecutive Light Attacks remains)
- 2 Seconds longer Duration (6sec to 8sec)

Suggestion No.3:
- Situational Set.
- Great Damage Increase (800)
- Expensive Ability Cost increase (50%)
- Timed way to trigger the effect (3 consecutive Light Attacks remains)
- A long Cooldown. Makes even more situational when knowing u cant use again (25 Sec Cooldown: Activation every 17 Sec)
- 2 Seconds longer Duration (6sec to 8sec)

Why no Activation trough Weaving?
This is simple to explain: If you intend to use this in Dungeons, you dont want to trigger the Set Effect accidentally while weaving since weaving provides higher DPS.When the right time is up you just quickly light attack 3x when Execute Phase starts and make sure you had minimal dps loss as possible, maximizing it at the same time in the Execute Phase. Since Executes (lets take Mages Wrath as example) dont cost too much ressources, this set is ideal to powerup your executes for the important moment and not run out of magicka aswell(when spamming your execute).


Now we only have to know what ZOS had in mind when creating this(situational or allrounder).
As it is now, its really disappointing because it looks really awesome and the idea is more than great!

How do you like the ideas?

Kas

^ i think every single solution is not balanced and would be worn by more than 80% of players with access to it. maybe at least for #1 whereas #2 and #3 would cause lots of builds to pop up that solely evolve around this set

Birdovic

Well not everybody will be ready to throw ressources around with that 50% higher Ability cost, so I doubt 80% will go with that set. But thinking about it, mostly people run around with Skoria/Engine Guardian, too soo..

Joy_Division

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Well, why does the Molag Kena Set only add weapon damage..?
This Set looks really awesome and the idea seems pretty great, its just not finished yet.

Why not start that hybrid-idea with THIS SET?
Im absolutely fine with making it hard to get, but please make it worth getting...for everyone.

My Suggestion No. 1
Why not make it like this:
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special", no drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks within 7 seconds triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 30% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 556 for 10 Seconds. This Effect has a cooldown of 15 Seconds(= resulting in minimum 5 Sec between each "Overkill-Phase")

Way too strong. DPS sustain is trivial as is 3 light attacks in 7 seconds. It's free power.

My Suggestion No. 2
Or make it like this
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special". No drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 50% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 756 for 8 Seconds.

In essence improves the spell/weapon bonus of the original set which I think is needed to make up for the DPS loss of 3 consecutive light attacks.

My Suggestion No. 3
Or make it like that
(1) 123 Weapon Damage and 123 Spell Power (Yep, 2 increases at once, make this set "special", no drawbacks for anyone)
(2) Causing damage with 3 consecutive light attacks triggers Overkill, which increases the Cost of all Abilities by 50% and increases the Spell and Weapon Damage by 800 for 8 Seconds. This Effect has a cooldown of 25 Seconds (= resulting in minimum 17 Sec between each "Overkill-Phase")

I would always opt for your option #2. Unless I misunderstand you, I am gaining 44 spell damage in exchange for a 17 second "off" time.

Birdovic

Joy_Division wrote: »

Suggestion 1: .....
Way too strong. DPS sustain is trivial as is 3 light attacks in 7 seconds. It's free power.

Agree.

In essence improves the spell/weapon bonus of the original set which I think is needed to make up for the DPS loss of 3 consecutive light attacks.

I would always opt for your option #2. Unless I misunderstand you, I am gaining 44 spell damage in exchange for a 17 second "off" time.

No you didnt misunderstand me^^

The Idea was to have a more situational Effect. 44 Spell damage/Weapon Damage increase is just a number and can be adjusted. To justify the long "off time", the increase should be higher (in relation to Option #2), thats true.
But this Effect is pretty difficult to balance I think.

Imagine players using this set in PvP and actually gain a 656 Spell/Weapon Dmg increase. Combining that with Major Brutality/Sorcery and Ravager Set Proc as example is just waaay too much, people would immediately cry out for a nerf, because they keep getting killed with ridicolous death recaps.

Comparing it to PvE, in dungeons thats a whole different story. Here,people use their ressources pool differently, not spamming everything to get a kill at any cost and just stealth/streak away like in PvP.

Thats why I think this Effect can only work on 1 Gameplay at once. Either PvP or PvE.
Since too high Weapon/Spell Damage increase doesnt hurt PvE but indeed PvP, the best way is to adjust it to PvP.
That way its useful and not too powerful in PvP.

But well, Option #2 is also my favourite.
Option #2 with decreased Spell/Weapon Power and possibly also a Cooldown is the way to go I think.


(Small offtopic question: Does anybody know if vampires get hit by +25% Fire dmg with NO vampirism abilites slotted? Since vampire buffs (stam/magicka reg) are gone with no Vampirism ablities slotted, it should be the same for Debuffs like +25% additional Fire Dmg right?)

Hears-Ghosts

All I have to say about the Molag Kena set is, there is going to be a lot of nerf Sorc. threads when players are killed by being one-shot by a Sorc. using Overload light attacks.

Birdovic

Hears-Ghosts wrote: »

All I have to say about the Molag Kena set is, there is going to be a lot of nerf Sorc. threads when players are killed by being one-shot by a Sorc. using Overload light attacks.

Well I've been testing a while and it turns out Weapon Damage is reaching higher Overload Light Attack Damage.

Not 100% accurate, but shouldnt be "too wrong" either lol. Thats based on the tooltip infos:

4021 Weapon Power = Light 12903 / Heavy 5090
2926 Spell Power = Light 12101 / Heavy 4777

Im sure people still reachi higher numbers in Weapon Damage easily, not sure on Spell Damage.
But we see there is quite a difference.

If like someone above said 80% of the players (lets take 80% of sorc players) use this 2-piece set for the effect, we mainly will see Stamina Hybrid Sorcerers running around on Master Greatsword/Master Swords/Bow Combo x.x

Dracane

Making those 2 sets too good, would make them too good to not take them and people would only take them and nothing else.

This is not very satisfying, as every set needs to be attractive in my opinion. I myself want to see every set being usefull and there are sets, that are way more lackluster (looking at you, Maw of the Infernal)
However, I agree that these 2 need some adjusting. But there must be a balance, so that they don't outshine other sets. Would be boring if every dps would be running Molag Kena, right ?

Hears-Ghosts

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

(Small offtopic question: Does anybody know if vampires get hit by +25% Fire dmg with NO vampirism abilites slotted? Since vampire buffs (stam/magicka reg) are gone with no Vampirism ablities slotted, it should be the same for Debuffs like +25% additional Fire Dmg right?)

You still take the 25% weakness to fire debuff if you don't have any Vampire abilities slotted. The only passive that must have a Vampire ability slotted is Supernatural Recovery.

Hiero_Glyph

What if it gave 70% of the normal bonus but for both weapon damage and spell power? This would keep it balanced and using 1 piece removes the option of using another set so it would be balanced even with Bloodspawn as the 2-piece bonus would be lost. It could be useful for hybrid builds and those that want to utilize the 2-piece bonus (although it still needs to be reworked).

R0M2K

@Deltia what are your thougths on a pew pew stamina build with:

Essence Thief 5/5 + Molag Kena 2/2 + Grim focus ?