Macro's and exploits

TheBull

Skwor wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

Wrong a macro will smoke someone manually animation cancelling. You can set up a logitech keyboard to animation cancel in under 10 milliseconds between each skill easily for 5 skills and not lose the sequence. NO ONE can cancel that fast manually!

Oh, but for 3 surprise attacks in under a second I do not believe happened. However macros with animation canceling does and ZEN distinctly noted it is considered cheating back at the Oct 2014 Guild Summit.

Each skill requires a certain amount of time to execute before the next one can be initiated. You can't animation cancel a skill with a skill. So your argument is invalid. Now if you animation cancel with right block or left attack, that can easily be done manually and arguably just as fast. Now if you chain skills and rbutton/lbutton with a macro to animation cancel between skills, than you have to put in a wait timer between skills. Using a wait timer will screw up your rotation and will cause more harm to you than the benefits of a macro can provide. Macros are not a problem with the design of this game.

You can't break out of a macro once initiated. Macros are inconsistent for continued damage rotations. Trust me, I've been playing around with macros since tintin was around for MUDs. Macros are self defeating in this game.

I have debunked this before and here we go again. To keep this simple and quick, many skills are instant cast and only the animation delays the execution of the skill. Breath of Life is an example. When I animation cancel BoL it instantly casts, if I do not, I have to wait almost a full second for it to cast.

So you see by animation canceling you can indeed cause certain skills to happen quicker because the animation is the only thing delaying an instant cast skill. There is a reason ZEN said macroing animation canceling is cheating, if what you said was true then ZEN would not care about macroing animation canceling.

I also would like to see you animation cancel in less than 10 milliseconds and cast a second follow up skill. Pretty hard given the best human reaction times are just under 200 milliseconds. A Logitech keyboard can easily cancel and cast the sequences with less than 10 millisecond delays between skills.

You are really confused man.

Light/heavy <skill<block<dodge roll. That's the priority system.

Here's another tid bit, the attack counter starts when you are hit not when I cast an attack. For example I can Lethal arrow > Lethal arrow > light/heavy >poison injection in under 1 second. The second lethal, poison injection and light/heavy hit at the same time about .8 seconds after the first.

What you will see on your kill counter is lethal, lethal, camo hunter, poison injection, light/heavy. No macro.

Suntzu1414

Macros are a serious problem.

Zeni needs to address this......



Kill Well
ST

T@rty

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

All i see is whaa whaa whaa, l2p.

Hi AbraXuS, I was not going to post in this thread again but since you have graciously taken the time to post I'd like to ask you what is your opinion of players who use exploits to gain an unfair advantage or induce lag or even gain access to spawn are.

Please enlighten us.

olemanwinter

T@rty wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

All i see is whaa whaa whaa, l2p.

Hi AbraXuS, I was not going to post in this thread again but since you have graciously taken the time to post I'd like to ask you what is your opinion of players who use exploits to gain an unfair advantage or induce lag or even gain access to spawn are.

Please enlighten us.

I'm just going to repeat myself one more time.

You do a disservice to your own agenda by grouping all these things together and treating them the same.

There is a very big difference between a clear exploit that has been reported, some of which have already been addressed by Zos and some of which have been ignored,.....and "lagsploiting" which is something that almost everyone in the game is accusing everyone else of all the time and nobody really knows who specifically is to blame in most cases with people posting videos of ults going off 50 times and someone else saying "that was my ult....it appeared to go off 50 times because of the lag....but only ever really proc'd once". It's a mess.

And there is a difference between exploits and macros, between attack weaving and macros. Hell, most people don't even agree on what exploiting is. Some people think taking advantage of imbalance in the game (shield stacking or attack buff stacking) is exploiting. You will see it referred to as such all over these threads.

Making a catch-all thread about everything you dislike about the game is going to accomplish nothing.

If it's an exploit Zos has addressed, like spawn camping....then report it so they can ban the person.

If it's an exploit not yet addressed, report it AND make a thread on the forums.

If it's an aspect of gameplay you don't like, such as light attack weaving, then start a thread asking to change it, but don't call it exploiting.

Etc.

H3Li0S

Yeah, exploit on console are really bad... Oh you mean on PC dont you ? We dont have macro problem on console...

TequilaFire

H3Li0S wrote: »

Yeah, exploit on console are really bad... Oh you mean on PC dont you ? We dont have macro problem on console...

We have less problems, but you do know you can buy rapid fire modded controllers right?

Kobaal

Regarding "Exploits"

Here is the official answer

From the Code of Conduct located at the bottom of every page on the forums under "Support":

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

I thought the bold section was pretty interesting to read.

HeroOfNone

Addressing the "macro" complaint, and the 3-4 hit kills in under a second.

First off, macros are against the TOS and banable. About the only way to prove it though is if the person is streaming or doing a video and saying they are doing it or tracking every action that player has and seeing if they are perfectly timed (like a bot).

Now the bursting has several issues.

Is it animation canceling/attack weaving? If they are hitting you with an ability and a heavy attack at the same time, this is an animation cancel. Both are on separate timers. Keep in mind either timer is down to 1.3 seconds cooldown, and they should not be able to hit you more than once.

is it ability effects? certain abilities like Dawnbreaker of smiting, camofauged hunter, evil hunter, sea of oblivion, grim focus, Daedric curse, weapon enchants etc. Cast on their own, in conjuction with an attack, or have an instant tick of damage. Pay close attention to your death message to understand this.

I got hit with a snipe, poison injection, and light attack all at once! Exploit?! not necessarily, certain abilities like snipe take time to cast and get to their target, so they will cast this with other abilities to stack the damage on in a quick burst.

the same ability hit me over and over in less than a second, is it an exploit? Maybe, but first make sure it was under a second. Things can go by in a blur, get an addon like combat log statistics or record your encounter and time it. If it does happen in under a second, then you could have server lag or you could have an exploiter. Watch their movements and see if they repeat it to a lot of folks. You can always report any activity to admins to watch.

I found an exploiter, how are they doing this and what can I do? getting folks that are burst damaging you with the same ability over and over again or that are bolt escaping into keeps are most times lag exploiting. Most confuse it with macroing and animation canceling, but macroing might only be involved when turning the lag switch on and off. While their is a cool down on abilities, it's set on the client side. Folks will lag themselves, cast the 3 abilities over 4 seconds, then turn it off, all of which will hit at once and kill you.

Given they are counting on you dying from the burst damage you can run damage reducing abilities (radiant mage light, heavy armor, impenetrable trait, damage shields) and you can attempt to find them before they come out of stealth to crit you (detection pots, hide around guards) these will shut down a lot of cookie cutter lagsploiter night blades. But keep in mind this thing takes prep work, so traveling with others and wathing zone chat for gankers is important. Others like the sorcs are hard to kill on their own when not exploiting, and some can kill you with simple broken abilities. For sorcs in general don't chase and draw them into your playing area. Lastly is to just not play in an area any exploiter is using. These things normally work due to low group numbers and having areas to ambush. Go to another keep or campaign, don't feed a troll and let them starve or get more obvious with those exploits by switching locations is a good way to deal with them.



Ultimately it takes a bit of research to be sure you have an exploiter, but just report them and let ZOS determine if they are. You may see someone again after you report them as well, but don't rage that they aren't insta-banned, there are other factors at play, as mentioned above. It is important to report repeatedly and adjust yourself to any cheap tactics.

AbraXuSeXile

T@rty wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

All i see is whaa whaa whaa, l2p.

Hi AbraXuS, I was not going to post in this thread again but since you have graciously taken the time to post I'd like to ask you what is your opinion of players who use exploits to gain an unfair advantage or induce lag or even gain access to spawn are.

Please enlighten us.

You can blame exploit, lagsploit or whatever for losing to us, the fact is we are better than you and you may use these excuses to lie to yourself how really bad at the game you are.

If you want to see my lagsploit skills check my youtube channel, this is my 48 man lag train.

For those unaware this thread was created in my honour

Itoq

I don't believe that players are executing several attacks in a second. Whether players can take advantage of the poorly coded game to make the receiving client delay showing some attacks that already happened is another issue.

In any case, there are definitely circumstances that cause multiple attacks to stack up and be shown (or not shown at all)within a second on the receiving client side. These issues are not limited to skills with travel time.

Seems to me that there are issues with how the communication between the client-server-other client takes place.

Additionally, back when ZoS was fiddling with the sound system/culling of sounds they never finished fixing it. Yes, the server crashes less now but is it worth it in terms of quality of game play?

And on top of that actions of other players also can get culled (coming out of stealth and execution of gap closers are the most commonly culled or partially culled.)

The more that you blob up and the larger your group (starting with 2+) the less that you will perceive these issues.

SirAndy

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

the fact is we are better than you

Psychobunni

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS' stance on exploits is that you can use them all you want, as long as you do not discuss them on the forums. This is to protect the poor exploiters. What do they do to protect the people suffering from exploiters?

No clue.

I wanted to give you an LOL, because that made me chuckle! I miss that button

(to be clear... a funny LOL, NOT a derpy LOL)

BuggeX

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

T@rty wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

All i see is whaa whaa whaa, l2p.

Hi AbraXuS, I was not going to post in this thread again but since you have graciously taken the time to post I'd like to ask you what is your opinion of players who use exploits to gain an unfair advantage or induce lag or even gain access to spawn are.

Please enlighten us.

You can blame exploit, lagsploit or whatever for losing to us, the fact is we are better than you and you may use these excuses to lie to yourself how really bad at the game you are.

If you want to see my lagsploit skills check my youtube channel, this is my 48 man lag train.

For those unaware this thread was created in my honour

I allways like when random Camps call the SOS Abraxus Hotline, and short after the Lagtrain apears Outta nowhere.

Menelaos

I would like to know if Add-Ons like Wykkyd's Outfitter or Wykkyd's Macros are considered a violation of the TOS. Could a @ZOS please clarify? Thanks in advance.

pppontus

deleted

Cherryblossom

olemanwinter wrote: »

T@rty wrote: »

Also the use of macro, is this acceptable? I have lost count of the number of times I've been killed by certain people using the same skills and killing me in less than a second. For example surprise attack x 3, teleport strike and a light attack, in less than a second. As a nightblade I know I can not do this without macros.

HOGWASH!

I can't tell you how many times I get accused of using a macro and I absolutely don't. In fact, having played since launch with very competitive people the only people I know using macros are people that use them to press 'R' when crafting stacks of potions. lol

THE FACTS: 1 second is a long time. I can easily hit several keys in 1 second. When you COMBINE my left hand working a couple of keys in under a second WITH my right hand doing light attacks, it requires no macro to hit you 4 times in 1 second.

When I ambush to you....I'm ALREADY PRESSING my surprise attack before I visually make contact. By the time I see the animation begin for Surprise attack...I've already pressed the left mouse button....and another surprise attack involves simply the TWITCH of my finger tip as it rests already above the button.

ANIMATION CANCELLING: Is a big part of what you are experiencing and Zos is on record saying it is allowed.

MACROS: Don't do what you think they do. For a series of 3 or 4 or 5 keystrokes they aren't noticeably faster than coordinated fingers. And there is a massive downside.

Lets say I macro'd 5 Surprise attacks in a row. You can't pause or stop the macro once begun (that I'm aware of) So, if you hit someone with a Surprise attack and they die.....your character will be locking into 4 more strikes instead of going stealth to avoid the next incoming player...or whatever. The point is that I've never met anyone who macros combat sequences because it reduces your flexibility.

The only macros I KNOW are being used are 1) Macros for potion timing applications, and 2) Macros for crafting.

HOW WOULD THEY KNOW? Don't be surprised if you never get a response from Zos about macro usage because it's almost impossible to determine. It's a MISTAKE to group exploits with macro use for that very reason.

I just told you that I can apply at least 4 strikes in 1 second without the use of a macro. (You probably don't believe me but it's true.) And I have done that EXACT sequence of attacks probably 10,000 times at this point. There....is....no....way....to tell if that is done with my fingers or a macro. It's all client side.

TLDR: These aren't the macros you're looking for.

Whilst I agree with you for the most part.
I think you are ignoring the fact that Macro's do not have to be long chains to be effective. For example it is simple to have a light attack macro'd with a skill for easy cancelling, same with a cast and a block. This leave's the options open for simple 1 button presses which allows you to react to situations.
I do not doubt from your response that you may have the amzingly quick reactions that many lack, but you would have to agree that the many who lack the reaction speeds could use Macro's in the way above to do what you do with skill.

I also think that animation cancelling is made more effective due to the lag in PVP, I have on numerous occassions suffered death in under a second (I have CLS) now for most part I do put this down to lag, but at times when you don't feel like there is any lag (it happens sometimes ) you are left thinking either there is something fundementally wrong with the game or someone is exploiting.

It will be interesting to see if the future combat changes will make any difference to the 1-2 second death times.

Please no one say L2P, it's impossible to react in the space of 1 second for most normal people.

Mayrael

1. About lags. When lag is on and you are trying to kill someone, after lag ends its not like all the damage is going to fall on your targett with less than a second. Delay between the skills and attacks is even bigger, if you use some addons that provide combat logs you can check it on your own. If targett was attacked by multiple enemies thats something different.

2. About macros. This is the most pathethic way to play. Im not a top scripter but even I know how to do a macro that will break whenever I want. Most of the time i know why I died, but there are some situations that are unclear to me. Like while sneaking I see that my eye is opening, and before it gets fully opened im dead. I wasnt even able to hit one button. And no, it wasnt one shot nuke, it was 3 skills + at least one light attack. Also you should notice that death recap screens arent precise. Very often you can see that death recap shows 2-3 skills. But when you check combat log, you can see that you have taken much more hits, sometimes 6-7 in one second so please, stop telling us that its just perfectly timed animation cancelling cause its not possible to throw such amount of skills and attacks in one second. When i die to perfectly timed 3-4 nukes, or skills like velicious curse, proxy detonation, endless furry i know its ok as they can create insane burst when timed well, but when someone throws at me 6-7 in less than one second its far from ok.

Solanum

I made a post about some of the issues I encounter lately, and whether Zenimax wants to address it because gameplay is no longer fun:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/200179/pvp-quirks/

It's insane how violently people defend the animation cancelling.

Troneon

Problems since launch, exploiters since launch who openly talk about it, post videos showing them doing it...

Never banned, never fixed.

Same issues since launch never resolved. You really think they will ever do anything about it now? Eso is eso...and especially in pvp is totally unbalanced and messed up in terms of bugs, exploits and now the unbalanced champion system.

Its not going to change, just look at the track history. I am expecting a lot of rage quitters with the next DLC. If you try to say anything about it, suddenly the topic gets filled with the same old ZOS defenders etc etc.

Performance, lag, exploits, balance, only seems to get worse, not improve.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

i once put a vid up on a dk jumping into ep area, but whats new dc in the eu using hacks etc you get use to it, its not hurting me that much, i got use to it, if they find the need to cheat and thats what it is leave them be, as for macros i see no issue using them

SeptimusDova

voice attack nuff said. Engine is built into Microsoft windows for the disabled. 902 compliance and the ADA protect it. Cannot be banned as the ADA protects it.Not even Zen can trump federal law.Voice input to Macro output no key presses needed Highly encouraged by users of Elite Dangerous and The upcoming Star Citizen. This may be one of the so called culprits.