Macro's and exploits

T@rty

Can we have an official response from Zenimax regarding the use of marcos and exploits please. Today we had a very well know guild using an exploit to enter the spawn on the north gate on Azuras EU (PC) and killing players as they ported to Cyrodiil. If this is going to continue that the question bodes, what is the point to playing pvp.

Also the use of macro, is this acceptable? I have lost count of the number of times I've been killed by certain people using the same skills and killing me in less than a second. For example surprise attack x 3, teleport strike and a light attack, in less than a second. As a nightblade I know I can not do this without macros.

Can Zenimax please give a response so both myself and guild mates know whether its time to look for a new game.

Kova

It can get pretty irritating. If you see an exploit personally, then I would definitely submit a report for it and maybe even capture a few images if you can. I always have shadowplay on for pvp, and have caught some great exploits in doing so.

As for macroing: It's hard to discern whether someone is using a macro or not, but I can honestly say that quite a few pvpers just have their burst combos down to a science. I do know some people that use Macros, but it usually becomes their downfall. If you use the same combo over and over again, I'm going to know something is up, which means I know I have a guaranteed moment to interrupt the combo or just straight up murder another player.

LegacyDM

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

TheBull

T@rty wrote: »

Can we have an official response from Zenimax regarding the use of marcos and exploits please. Today we had a very well know guild using an exploit to enter the spawn on the north gate on Azuras EU (PC) and killing players as they ported to Cyrodiil. If this is going to continue that the question bodes, what is the point to playing pvp.

Also the use of macro, is this acceptable? I have lost count of the number of times I've been killed by certain people using the same skills and killing me in less than a second. For example surprise attack x 3, teleport strike and a light attack, in less than a second. As a nightblade I know I can not do this without macros.

Can Zenimax please give a response so both myself and guild mates know whether its time to look for a new game.

I call BS no one has surprised attacked you 3 times in under 1 second. As a NB or any other class you can't do that even with a macro. The priority system will not allow it.

edit- and what the poster above me said.

T@rty

As for a L2P issue, yes you could be right as I've only been playing for over a year.....

I understand what you are saying re macro's however there is no doubt that some people are using them, in the example I stated above, there were 3 of us who were killed by the same combi and by the same player.

I can easily do the same but to me that is a cheat and as such I will not do it. It is no different to using an aimbot imo, it requires no skill and is outside of the mechanics of the game as such giving an unfair advantage.

As for spawn killing at the north gate spawn point that is clearly an exploit and should be addressed.

Skwor

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

Wrong a macro will smoke someone manually animation cancelling. You can set up a logitech keyboard to animation cancel in under 10 milliseconds between each skill easily for 5 skills and not lose the sequence. NO ONE can cancel that fast manually!

Oh, but for 3 surprise attacks in under a second I do not believe happened. However macros with animation canceling does and ZEN distinctly noted it is considered cheating back at the Oct 2014 Guild Summit.

Vahrokh

Macroers, exploiters, map bugs, lag.

Most of all, the fact the above seem to persist for a long time and exploiters don't get punished enough.


There are the reasons why I refuse to PvP in this game. If I PvP, I want a fair game.

kevlarto_ESO

Yep I had friends killed like that in pvp, some times the attacker even changed weapons and used certain attacks over an over in just a few seconds, with animation canceling macros and the broken exploitable games mechanics and sharpened trait, anything can happen..

Samadhi

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

There was once a thread in the PvP section with a link to a video from a player's Twitch stream.

It is unfortunate that the thread was deleted by moderator staff (presumably due to "name and shame") because what it showed was quite interesting.

A Nightblade went Ambush --> Soul Harvest --> Concealed Weapon (pre-Stamina skills patch) and killed the player who was filming.

The video showed the whole gank took roughly 3 seconds in total, and included knocking the player off a horse.
The video also showed that the Nightblade did not even animation cancel, as the full animation of each skill was visible.

The video then showed the player who was killed rez at their home base, and proceed to write a ticket about being macro'd and exploited and having their whole health bar taken out in less than a second. Think they even offered to send in the video footage as well.

After sending in the ticket, they proceeded to whisper the Nightblade angrily about animation cancelling; the Nightblade calmly responded that no animation cancelling took place.

It was great, because it showed how gank targets sometimes perceive time differently than what actually occurs.

T@rty

Having played online games since 1989 and having a network connection since 1985 (9.6 kilobit connection) I think I'm fairly used to the effects of lag. As said, I was killed twice with the same combi as were 2 people who were with me.

However that is not the major issue here, the issue is using exploits to spawn *** people at the north gate. Not inside the gate but inside the spawn area which 'should' be in accessible to other factions. The posts in the German forum which had screenshots and naming / shamed the guild in question were deleted by Zenimax.

So the question is, are Zenimax going to do anything about this or are they happy to see pvp abused in this way and the ramifications that this will have on their player base?

LegacyDM

Skwor wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

Wrong a macro will smoke someone manually animation cancelling. You can set up a logitech keyboard to animation cancel in under 10 milliseconds between each skill easily for 5 skills and not lose the sequence. NO ONE can cancel that fast manually!

Oh, but for 3 surprise attacks in under a second I do not believe happened. However macros with animation canceling does and ZEN distinctly noted it is considered cheating back at the Oct 2014 Guild Summit.

Each skill requires a certain amount of time to execute before the next one can be initiated. You can't animation cancel a skill with a skill. So your argument is invalid. Now if you animation cancel with right block or left attack, that can easily be done manually and arguably just as fast. Now if you chain skills and rbutton/lbutton with a macro to animation cancel between skills, than you have to put in a wait timer between skills. Using a wait timer will screw up your rotation and will cause more harm to you than the benefits of a macro can provide. Macros are not a problem with the design of this game.

You can't break out of a macro once initiated. Macros are inconsistent for continued damage rotations. Trust me, I've been playing around with macros since tintin was around for MUDs. Macros are self defeating in this game.

Scamandros

People who are so sure there is macro'ing taking place and that it is both possible and simple to set up, I would like to see a video of you achieving the instagib results with one. Blur out your name and no one can tell if its you or someone else who made the video, so no accountability, and please have a combat addon that will show in real time attacks as they happen and a battle summary too

Xantaria

that talk about macroing is ***. And it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to use macros in a game that is plagued by lagg so much as this game. Guess you could use macros if you had constant 20ms ping but pls don't make me laugh - in this game it is impossible to have that. No top player in this game uses Macros.

SC0TY999

T@rty wrote: »

As for a L2P issue, yes you could be right as I've only been playing for over a year.....

I understand what you are saying re macro's however there is no doubt that some people are using them, in the example I stated above, there were 3 of us who were killed by the same combi and by the same player.

I can easily do the same but to me that is a cheat and as such I will not do it. It is no different to using an aimbot imo, it requires no skill and is outside of the mechanics of the game as such giving an unfair advantage.

As for spawn killing at the north gate spawn point that is clearly an exploit and should be addressed.

I'm going to throw it out there;

Was the players name: Rood Dodesse?

Akavir_Sentinel

There is a way that I could hit you with any skill, no matter if it is instant or channeled, 5+ times in a second before you even knew what hit you. Of course I don't do this, and I'm not going to say how it is done, but I know how it is accomplished and Zenimax knows how players are doing this as a post regarding this was removed very quickly a couple of days ago.

olemanwinter

T@rty wrote: »

Also the use of macro, is this acceptable? I have lost count of the number of times I've been killed by certain people using the same skills and killing me in less than a second. For example surprise attack x 3, teleport strike and a light attack, in less than a second. As a nightblade I know I can not do this without macros.

HOGWASH!

I can't tell you how many times I get accused of using a macro and I absolutely don't. In fact, having played since launch with very competitive people the only people I know using macros are people that use them to press 'R' when crafting stacks of potions. lol

THE FACTS: 1 second is a long time. I can easily hit several keys in 1 second. When you COMBINE my left hand working a couple of keys in under a second WITH my right hand doing light attacks, it requires no macro to hit you 4 times in 1 second.

When I ambush to you....I'm ALREADY PRESSING my surprise attack before I visually make contact. By the time I see the animation begin for Surprise attack...I've already pressed the left mouse button....and another surprise attack involves simply the TWITCH of my finger tip as it rests already above the button.

ANIMATION CANCELLING: Is a big part of what you are experiencing and Zos is on record saying it is allowed.

MACROS: Don't do what you think they do. For a series of 3 or 4 or 5 keystrokes they aren't noticeably faster than coordinated fingers. And there is a massive downside.

Lets say I macro'd 5 Surprise attacks in a row. You can't pause or stop the macro once begun (that I'm aware of) So, if you hit someone with a Surprise attack and they die.....your character will be locking into 4 more strikes instead of going stealth to avoid the next incoming player...or whatever. The point is that I've never met anyone who macros combat sequences because it reduces your flexibility.

The only macros I KNOW are being used are 1) Macros for potion timing applications, and 2) Macros for crafting.

HOW WOULD THEY KNOW? Don't be surprised if you never get a response from Zos about macro usage because it's almost impossible to determine. It's a MISTAKE to group exploits with macro use for that very reason.

I just told you that I can apply at least 4 strikes in 1 second without the use of a macro. (You probably don't believe me but it's true.) And I have done that EXACT sequence of attacks probably 10,000 times at this point. There....is....no....way....to tell if that is done with my fingers or a macro. It's all client side.

TLDR: These aren't the macros you're looking for.

olemanwinter

Sorry, I just had to add this to the thread:

Rinmaethodain

Macroers, exploiters, map bugs, lag, animation cancelling

PVP in a nutshell

And yet ZOS still listens to PVP whiners and caters to them with every nerf/buff just because they get killed by something and declare it OP!!11oneone

olemanwinter

PETE,

Vahrokh wrote: »

Macroers, exploiters, map bugs, lag.

MEET REPEAT,

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Macroers, exploiters, map bugs, lag, animation cancelling

Rinmaethodain

I look forward to the day that animation cancelling will get fixed (And in last ESO live they already said they are looking into it)

Lava_Croft

ZOS' stance on exploits is that you can use them all you want, as long as you do not discuss them on the forums. This is to protect the poor exploiters. What do they do to protect the people suffering from exploiters?

No clue.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

olemanwinter wrote: »

THE FACTS:1 second is a long time. I can easily hit several keys in 1 second. When you COMBINE my left hand working a couple of keys in under a second WITH my right hand doing light attacks, it requires no macro to hit you 4 times in 1 second.

BS. Even I can make those "1 key hit" macros mate. Stop trying to pull the wool out of people eyes.

T@rty

Wow sorry I rattled your cage olemanwinter, I was not accusing you or naming anyone regarding macros and exploits. I know there are some VERY good players out there, however being hit by the same combi of moves repeatedly is a little suspicious to say the least and even you must agree on that one.

So far though there is a lack of response regarding people entering the spawn area on the north gate and spawn killing players as they arrived in Cryodiil. And please, don't cry hogwash on this one as there are screenshots and plenty of people who experienced it.

olemanwinter

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

THE FACTS:1 second is a long time. I can easily hit several keys in 1 second. When you COMBINE my left hand working a couple of keys in under a second WITH my right hand doing light attacks, it requires no macro to hit you 4 times in 1 second.

BS. Even I can make those "1 key hit" macros mate. Stop trying to pull the wool out of people eyes.

That comment doesn't have anything to do with the portion you quoted mate.

The portion you quoted was me describing how I can do with my fingers that which you assume is being done with a macro, not that the macro can't be made.

I go on to explain that although the macro can be made, it doesn't benefit the player.

Nobody doubts the macro can be made. :-/

Did you read the whole post? I think you read maybe a sentence and jumped to a conclusion the same way The OP got face-rolled in pvp and jumped to the conclusion of a macro to begin with!

olemanwinter

T@rty wrote: »

however being hit by the same combi of moves repeatedly is a little suspicious to say the least and even you must agree on that one.

Must I? No I must not.

Getting hit with the "same combo of moves" is all ESO has become.

- Fear + Wrecking Blow
- Ambush + Surprise Attack
- Detonation + Jesus Beam
- Camo Hunter + Venom Arrow
Etc.

90% of the time when I die (and I ALWAYS check my recap) it's the exact same combination of the exact same very few skills in the exact same order.

Welcome to ESO

T@rty wrote: »

So far though there is a lack of response regarding people entering the spawn area on the north gate and spawn killing players as they arrived in Cryodiil.

Lack of response? They are on record WAY BACK saying that is explicitly against the rules and I know for a fact they have taken action against players doing that.

Did you do a forum search for your many issues?

You can by all means complain about the lack of action on Zos' part against exploiters, we all feel your pain there....but when you say there has been no response regarding spawn camping behind the gate (above the drop off) then you do a disservice to your own cause.

T@rty

Using two moves in combination is not what I posted about, as you well know and we've already discussed further up the thread.

As for forum search regarding the use of exploits for spawn killing the north gate, clearly there has been little done about it because the incident I posted about happened yesterday.

Enough said

Skwor

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

There's no way your opponent was able to cast 3 surprise attacks, a teleport strike, and a light attack in less than a second. You were either killed by an exploit, or it's an L2p issue. Macros don't speed up game mechanics and are limited by the speed of the game engine and animations. Macros certainly can aid in animation canceling but a player not using macros can animation cancel just as easy as a macro user. In fact, like the post above, macros provide a disadvantage because the player must wait for the macro to finish. Therefore, if the player needs to adjust on the fly, they cannot.

Wrong a macro will smoke someone manually animation cancelling. You can set up a logitech keyboard to animation cancel in under 10 milliseconds between each skill easily for 5 skills and not lose the sequence. NO ONE can cancel that fast manually!

Oh, but for 3 surprise attacks in under a second I do not believe happened. However macros with animation canceling does and ZEN distinctly noted it is considered cheating back at the Oct 2014 Guild Summit.

Each skill requires a certain amount of time to execute before the next one can be initiated. You can't animation cancel a skill with a skill. So your argument is invalid. Now if you animation cancel with right block or left attack, that can easily be done manually and arguably just as fast. Now if you chain skills and rbutton/lbutton with a macro to animation cancel between skills, than you have to put in a wait timer between skills. Using a wait timer will screw up your rotation and will cause more harm to you than the benefits of a macro can provide. Macros are not a problem with the design of this game.

You can't break out of a macro once initiated. Macros are inconsistent for continued damage rotations. Trust me, I've been playing around with macros since tintin was around for MUDs. Macros are self defeating in this game.

I have debunked this before and here we go again. To keep this simple and quick, many skills are instant cast and only the animation delays the execution of the skill. Breath of Life is an example. When I animation cancel BoL it instantly casts, if I do not, I have to wait almost a full second for it to cast.

So you see by animation canceling you can indeed cause certain skills to happen quicker because the animation is the only thing delaying an instant cast skill. There is a reason ZEN said macroing animation canceling is cheating, if what you said was true then ZEN would not care about macroing animation canceling.

I also would like to see you animation cancel in less than 10 milliseconds and cast a second follow up skill. Pretty hard given the best human reaction times are just under 200 milliseconds. A Logitech keyboard can easily cancel and cast the sequences with less than 10 millisecond delays between skills.

Singular

T@rty wrote: »

Wow sorry I rattled your cage olemanwinter, I was not accusing you or naming anyone regarding macros and exploits. I know there are some VERY good players out there, however being hit by the same combi of moves repeatedly is a little suspicious to say the least and even you must agree on that one.

So far though there is a lack of response regarding people entering the spawn area on the north gate and spawn killing players as they arrived in Cryodiil. And please, don't cry hogwash on this one as there are screenshots and plenty of people who experienced it.

You know, we only have 6 buttons or so. It's impossible not to have a solid rotation down our of that meager number of abilities.

AbraXuSeXile

All i see is whaa whaa whaa, l2p.

ItsRejectz

Soon

Stalwart385

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I look forward to the day that animation cancelling will get fixed (And in last ESO live they already said they are looking into it)

I don't see the issue. You light attack then use a skill. It's not complicated and ZoS is okay with it. It's simply a L2P issue. They even have sets that benefit it. Weaving at least adds some skill into attacking, other than just spamming a button.

Exploits are exploits. They need to be quietly brought to ZoS's attention and dealt with. Posting them in forums only spreads the issue. ZoS needs to get on fixing them quicker.

Macroing isn't an issue imo. It may give a very slight advantage but everyone has to deal with the same delays. Macroing an exploit is just an exploit issue not a macro issue. I don't trust macro's in an action game with lag spikes but have no issue with them.