Justice System Addition - Public Indecency

Robo_Hobo

Gidorick wrote: »

Moonscythe wrote: »

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

My khajiit would like to inform you furless ones that we're never "nude". So as long as cats aren't subject to the silly morals of you hairless creatures, sure, go for it.

So long as the cats and lizards wear underwear as if they had something to hide then they are indecent when unclothed. On the other hand, i always thought that the Khajit and Argonians should be designed to look less human in their body plan and thus able to wear their own fur or scales with armor being different on them.

I FINALLY have a "weird lore question" for @Lawrence_Schick. Do Argonians and Khajiit have genitalia similar to Men and Mer?

Well, according to the uncensored version of 'The Real Barenziah', Male Khajiit have barbed genatilia much like how real-life felines do. Interestingly this suggests female Khajiit dont have menstruation cycles, as the barb is necessary to stimulate the ovaries or whatnot to release the egg for reproduction.

I think its just to make Argonians more understandable to our human culture in graphics but I doubt the females canonically have mammaries due to their reptilian nature and egg-birth, likewise may not have need for the wider hips but Im not very good on anatomy.

Personally, I think Argonians and Khajiit didnt wear clothes until imperial influence added that as a part of their culture, the kothringi in black marsh before they went extinct, didnt wear clothes if I recall correctly. Naturally, the Kothringi in-game we see are clothed regardless, due to obvious reasons.

Bipedal khajiit forms born to quadruped khajiit forms in the wilderness would naturally unlikely have a concept of nakedness as well.

Milktray

If a 'Public Nudity' bounty was ever introduced you can garuntee that as soon as it does, the game will be flooded with players running around nude.

BlackEar

Gidorick wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

No thanks.

I would rather they spent their time on something else.

Ahhh there's the standard response. I'm surprised it took so long!

It is a 100 % legit response and opinion to hold.

Besides, I do not think the idea you have will add anything of significant value to the game for me or the justice system as a whole.

Zorrashi

I actually like this idea. I like it when the world reacts to my actions instead of treating me like a guy who is "just around". Now if only they would do something similar with being a starved vampire....
But clothing (or lack thereof) is just as good a start. It would add a lot to this game (imo) if guards start reacting to things beyond theft/murder.

Gidorick

BlackEar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

No thanks.

I would rather they spent their time on something else.

Ahhh there's the standard response. I'm surprised it took so long!

It is a 100 % legit response and opinion to hold.

Besides, I do not think the idea you have will add anything of significant value to the game for me or the justice system as a whole.

legitimate opinion sure, but adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. It never does. It's simply an unsupported opposing opinion. It's pretty much the "Nuh-uh" response.

Now your second sentence. That adds to the conversation!

If they had different decency laws in different cities as it would diversify the culture throughout Tamriel. I would love if different cities had different expectations of how players should act within their city walls, like towns that hate vampires, or towns with guards that harass you if you pull your weapon out in town.

Those mechanics might be a bit too much for the MMO crowd though.

Milktray wrote: »

If a 'Public Nudity' bounty was ever introduced you can garuntee that as soon as it does, the game will be flooded with players running around nude.

This is, without a doubt, true. Especially if there were any achievements associated with the nude law mechanic.

Gidorick

Zorrashi wrote: »

if guards start reacting to things beyond theft/murder.

I think, perhaps, this is the more constructive point to make. So the different things guards could react to could be...

• Varying degrees of Nudity
• Varying degrees of Vamparism

Anything else? I like the idea of guards that react if you have your weapon drawn in town but like I said, that might be too much.

Rinmaethodain

Guards should react more to spamming deadly skills in crowded area, rather than silly public nudity.

Even with turned off "do not allow killing innocents" there should be punishment for spamming deadly attack and skills in middle of city.

Zershar_Vemod

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

Gidorick

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

why are people naked when crafting, deconstructing armors, etc?

Zershar_Vemod

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

why are people naked when crafting, deconstructing armors, etc?

Some of us like to deconstruct our former armor to get mats.

What kind of stupid question is that...? Should there be a penalty for swapping armor in the middle of a public place too?

Gidorick

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

why are people naked when crafting, deconstructing armors, etc?

Some of us like to deconstruct our former armor to get mats.

What kind of stupid question is that...? Should there be a penalty for swapping armor in the middle of a public place too?

It's a legitimate question. I think the act of removing all your clothes to craft seems... odd. Divines forbid that you should have to act rationally when conducting business in a town. You could always put on a blacksmith's costume or something similar.

Regarding the swapping of armor in public... if you take your armor off, leave the equipment screen and are in the vicinity of a guard.

Yep.

Remember, this mechanic would only cause a bounty if a guard "sees" you naked.

These complaints only support the statement that this mechanic would add a level of detail and attention to play. So thanks for that.

VilhelmValhalla4

Gidorick wrote: »

legitimate opinion sure, but adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. It never does. It's simply an unsupported opposing opinion. It's pretty much the "Nuh-uh" response.

Now your second sentence. That adds to the conversation!

If they had different decency laws in different cities as it would diversify the culture throughout Tamriel. I would love if different cities had different expectations of how players should act within their city walls, like towns that hate vampires, or towns with guards that harass you if you pull your weapon out in town.

Those mechanics might be a bit too much for the MMO crowd though.

Milktray wrote: »

If a 'Public Nudity' bounty was ever introduced you can garuntee that as soon as it does, the game will be flooded with players running around nude.

This is, without a doubt, true. Especially if there were any achievements associated with the nude law mechanic.

I think a diversity of laws throughout the provinces, even minor laws, would help to make each city feel like a concrete place and not just a backdrop. It would add a lot to remember that what is permitted in Dune is not necessarily legal in Mournhold, etc. Even penalties for crimes should differ by province, again, adding to the sense of culture for each region.

Off-Topic: It seems that whenever someone proposes a new law or rule for the Justice System, people read it as "you cannot do this thing anymore." No one is stopping you from getting naked, killing, casting spells, whatever; you are still free to do what you please, but you must live with the consequences.

Gidorick

VilhelmValhalla4 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

legitimate opinion sure, but adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. It never does. It's simply an unsupported opposing opinion. It's pretty much the "Nuh-uh" response.

Now your second sentence. That adds to the conversation!

If they had different decency laws in different cities as it would diversify the culture throughout Tamriel. I would love if different cities had different expectations of how players should act within their city walls, like towns that hate vampires, or towns with guards that harass you if you pull your weapon out in town.

Those mechanics might be a bit too much for the MMO crowd though.

Milktray wrote: »

If a 'Public Nudity' bounty was ever introduced you can garuntee that as soon as it does, the game will be flooded with players running around nude.

This is, without a doubt, true. Especially if there were any achievements associated with the nude law mechanic.

I think a diversity of laws throughout the provinces, even minor laws, would help to make each city feel like a concrete place and not just a backdrop. It would add a lot to remember that what is permitted in Dune is not necessarily legal in Mournhold, etc. Even penalties for crimes should differ by province, again, adding to the sense of culture for each region.

Off-Topic: It seems that whenever someone proposes a new law or rule for the Justice System, people read it as "you cannot do this thing anymore." No one is stopping you from getting naked, killing, casting spells, whatever; you are still free to do what you please, but you must live with the consequences.

I'm thinking that this really should be the discussion @VilhelmValhalla4. Not just my silly idea about indecent exposure.

Zershar_Vemod

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

why are people naked when crafting, deconstructing armors, etc?

Some of us like to deconstruct our former armor to get mats.

What kind of stupid question is that...? Should there be a penalty for swapping armor in the middle of a public place too?

It's a legitimate question. I think the act of removing all your clothes to craft seems... odd. Divines forbid that you should have to act rationally when conducting business in a town. You could always put on a blacksmith's costume or something similar.

Regarding the swapping of armor in public... if you take your armor off, leave the equipment screen and are in the vicinity of a guard.

Yep.

Remember, this mechanic would only cause a bounty if a guard "sees" you naked.

These complaints only support the statement that this mechanic would add a level of detail and attention to play. So thanks for that.

Next up, gold tax for logging on.

Gidorick

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

So when people are crafting, deconstructing armors, etc...they should get a bounty?

How about no.

why are people naked when crafting, deconstructing armors, etc?

Some of us like to deconstruct our former armor to get mats.

What kind of stupid question is that...? Should there be a penalty for swapping armor in the middle of a public place too?

It's a legitimate question. I think the act of removing all your clothes to craft seems... odd. Divines forbid that you should have to act rationally when conducting business in a town. You could always put on a blacksmith's costume or something similar.

Regarding the swapping of armor in public... if you take your armor off, leave the equipment screen and are in the vicinity of a guard.

Yep.

Remember, this mechanic would only cause a bounty if a guard "sees" you naked.

These complaints only support the statement that this mechanic would add a level of detail and attention to play. So thanks for that.

Next up, gold tax for logging on.

No but I would support a gold toll system... wait... wayshrines already cost gold if you use them out in the wilderness.... nevermind.

Psychobunni

If I walked around town in just a bikini...nothing would happen to me. (legally) Sure, most stores have a no shirt/no shoes policy but town itself..nada. I've heard some cities even allow topless women.

Anyway, this concept asks for a harsher penalty than reality, in so far as clothing. As for the other part, I would think that ZOS could code emotes so that they did not work within certain parameters of other players/npcs..problem solved.

Edit: I thought about the reality thing driving home from the store today seeing an extremely large and fuzzy man, with a bigger chest than I walking down the street shirtless. It broke my immersion and I wanted a guard to arrest him

Gidorick

I'd be cool with that fix @Psychobunni. But the idea of towns existing in Nirn that are all conservative and towns existing that are really wild REALLY appeals to me! I think it would be a huge step toward making Tamriel feel more like a living amalgamation of communities.

ontheleftcoast

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Id rather see them make changes to how the Justice System works first. It annoys me to no end when I kill a lone NPC out in the middle of no where with no Guard anywhere remotely close to my location and I instantly have a bounty.

Cities, Towns and anywhere within a certain distance of Guards should definitely cause a bounty. But out on the roads and in the wilderness it should be anything goes. It is a dangerous time and a dangerous world after all. I once stole something in a house out in the middle of nowhere and the occupants attacked me. So I killed them and racked up a sizeable bounty....If it had been in a town or city I wouldnt have been annoyed with it. But who were these two going to tell between throwing their fists and getting stabbed?

Remember how in Skyrim committing a crime in one hold affected every other hold... oh, wait, it didn't! But here in Tamriel if I steal a lousy piece of seaweed on Bleakrock Island every guard in Auridon instantly knows about it. And somehow they know which of my thousands of items are stolen (even though nobody saw me steal them) and which aren't. The whole premise is ludicrous but apparently we're supposed to chalk it up to "game mechanics". Which is a load of guar droppings if you ask me. The game has a lousy, minimalist UI supposedly to promote "immersion" and something that would provide actual immersion -- a realistic bounty system in the "justice" system -- isn't even considered.

arena25

Gidorick wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

What is this? An M rated game and you complain about the type of nudity you commonly see in TV?
ROFLMAO

Honestly it's not the nudity I have issues with. I'm actually 100% for "sexy" armor... it's the lewd behavior that people perpetuate while in the "nude" state.

I mean... there are idiots who have posted tutorials on how to do this stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgjHTKge4XM

The primary thing that lead to this suggestion is that people are saying children won't be added because people are pervs and will do this sort of stuff to children NPCs... so I'm like "ok, make it "illegal" ". It should NEVER be that a games progress in design, art, style, culture should be hindered by inappropriate acts of gamers. I think that's a travesty if that is TRULY the reason kids aren't in this game.

I'm pointing out here that there CAN be consequences to actions... ZOS doesn't have to let the lecherous stifle their game... in fact, they can enhance their game and make it a more immersive experience by actively discouraging this behavior in the areas where there would be considered "public" and the areas where there are children.

It's not as simple as "being offended".

*Facepalm*

Now I'm in favor of adding more bounty options, including those for indecency and emotes. Please, add the bounties. Doesn't take much.

SerDinadan

Seems a bit too strict to me to count underwear as indecent exposure, if you could actually go nude then I think this would warrant looking into.

Bherdani

Gidorick wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

What about groups like the Naked Nords? @Bherdani can certainly tell you more about them. They make fighting with out armor awesome.

As long as they aren't naked inside cities, they wont have any problems....

The Naked Nords are a group based on the lore from TESM. Remember the beserkers of Solstheim and the witchhunter outside Caldera? Nords get hot easily, and in the warmer regions shed their clothes. Ingame, I will tell you it takes char build to a whole new challenge level.

As for the legal restrictions... I could see the argument against nakedness for the conservative Altmer and Bretons, but most of the other races tend to shed their clothes too. Khajiit, Argonians, Dunmer, Orsimer, and Redguards all provide multiple examples. And the Bosmer? Even in full armor they're half naked xD

I will give you this: it would make for interesting dynamics in both DC and AD if the Altmer and Bretons tried to impose these rules when racial tensions are already high. But it would probably only be enforceable in the largest cities (with the obvious exceptions of ports, which tend to prioritize trade). Thoughts?

RedTalon

cool would encourage me to go on naked murder sprees if they did that, since the npc guards are pretty bad at catching people

But think time would be best spent elsewhere and including the pvp part of the justice system

Gidorick

You and I are on the same wavelength with this @Bherdani. I'm of the thought now that regional restrictions would be best and it could just be enforced in the large cities of the zones. I'm was suggesting, at first, a blanket law but through discussion I've come to believe that having the strictness of the indecency laws vary from zone to zone and be enforced differently from town to town would be an amazing addition to the game. Heck, some towns the guards might just give you a warning... and never actually "bust you". Other towns the guards might immediately fine you.

TheShadowScout

I for one would love regional differences in minor laws. And if they added "indecency" laws, that for one would make a great sourse for legal differences... where in stuck up altmer or breton towns you'd be fined as soon as you took off your shirt in public, argonians, orcs, nords or bosmer might not care at all, and khajiit might even have some cattish comment...

Another thing I had been thinking of in this matter would be spellcasting... in some cities, noone might care if people cast spells on the streets as long as noone gets hurt... others might be more restrictive to public magery... or maybe even sorceror pets... some cities might find it not worthy of note to have a mage running around with all kinds of daedric summons in tow, others might get upset about it... "oh, a daedra worshipper, quick, burn it at the stake!"

Another matter of course would be general crime. As in, some cities might have different fines added if you commit the same crime... from cities with a heavily corrupt system where the fines might be 50% of "normal" to highly restrictive cities (the faction capital comes to mind) where the guers are extra vigilant, and all fines are doubled...

k2blader

I would do PvE for a knockdown skill with a poo ball throwing animation that could be used on people lacking shirt, pants, or wearing wedding dresses.